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Post by Spaceman on Nov 3, 2017 13:28:09 GMT -5
I have never taken that statement seriously tbh, sure the thought of "what if I had gone solo" crossed his mind but deep down he knew he needed Liam for that record Noel has said, multiple times, that Liam was the best singer in the world in the 90's. Even today he'll say stuff like that if it comes up. Anything he says about going solo during DM, WTSMG, or BHN is just Noel being "interview Noel." I agree. I really have nothing against 90s Noel tbh
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Post by thomaslivesforever on Nov 3, 2017 13:36:35 GMT -5
As soon as you tell me why the rest of Oasis ended up in a new band with him before Noel's cab had gotten back to the hotel. They have mortgages to pay, absolutely nothing can be read into them being with either brother. And Noel was going solo so they had no choice but to go with Liam. Some of the attempts to score points really are embarrassing. Liam's a dick a lot of the time, Noel's a dick a lot of the time. Taking sides and acting like they are your mates is really quite weird. The quote from the mojo journalist about Liam living a seperate life to the band on the DOYS tour is interesting though, hadn't seen that before.They also got it wrong as far as I can remember as almost every other comment has Noel being the one alone.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Nov 3, 2017 13:58:51 GMT -5
Beady Eye was bad on average. It wasn't different. It wasn't fresh. It was the same old tired style but of inferior quality to Noel's work in Oasis and his comparative solo efforts. Even BE wasn't all that different, it just felt more modern and better developed, which is why it fared better. That album received the praise that it deserved, unfortunately it still offered too much filler which most recognize in hindsight. Noel is genuinely trying to reform his sound on this record. He's leaving his comfort zone. Unsurprisingly, a lot of people hate it. Most people claim to want change, but in reality, nobody actually likes it. It's the lie we tell ourselves. It takes time for change to sink in before we can appreciate its value. The important question is whether or not the hate is deserved here? Are they hating it just because it's radically different or because it's genuinely of inferior quality to his previous works? It's too soon to tell in my opinion. "If Beady Eye was bad on average so were NGHFB and BE."What's your reasoning? " Arrogant statements like these are the reason why there are so many bitter Liam fans here."
It's not a matter of arrogance, it's just reality. The songs weren't there. Maybe they would have improved more with a third album as they did with #2, but that didn't happen, because the energy wasn't there anymore. The sales weren't there. The motivation for the members weren't there. This is due to other factors as well, but the point is, they split. Listen, if you're in love with DGSS and BE, that's fine. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it. What I am saying is that I think it's within reason to say that even among this community, the general consensus is probably that Beady Eye produced generally bad albums with a few gems among them (mostly on BE). This is bad in the context of what makes Oasis what it is and what makes other popular music within the same genre what it is. It really just comes down to the writing. They lacked interesting hooks and a unique sound. "There are many BDI fans here and the "BDI is shite" narrative is not going to cut well with those people.
I am a Beady Eye fan. I can also acknowledge that they weren't good. If a new artist had released those songs, they would never have gained significant popularity in this business. Beady Eye did okay because they were carried on the back of Oasis. And as we saw, after tried, the sales nosedived on BE. That's indicative that the general public just weren't interested. Here, we were ecstatic as we are for any Gallagher release. Remember that we are a fandom, most of us with at least a slight obsession for anything Gallagher. You have to account for that bias if you have any desire to hold an opinion that best resembles reality. It's far easier after allowing time to pass to be able to more accurately judge albums. Also, saying Beady Eye is bad on average isn't the same as saying they're shite. No need to strawman my position. "BDI/Liam fans here had enough after 8 years of mocking and taunting. Backlash was always going to happen."So correct me if I am wrong, you're saying that because Beady Eye fans were mocked for so long that it's now okay to mock Noel fans? That seems juvenile.
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Post by ricardogce on Nov 3, 2017 14:01:45 GMT -5
As soon as you tell me why the rest of Oasis ended up in a new band with him before Noel's cab had gotten back to the hotel. They have mortgages to pay, absolutely nothing can be read into them being with either brother. And Noel was going solo so they had no choice but to go with Liam. Some of the attempts to score points really are embarrassing. Liam's a dick a lot of the time, Noel's a dick a lot of the time. Taking sides and acting like they are your mates is really quite weird. From Andy Bell, arguably a more critically acclaimed musician before he joined Oasis than Noel was at the time: Seems more personal than "hey bills aren't gonna pay themselves". Interesting and unverifiable, and as you say, nothing I'd heard from anyone else before.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Nov 3, 2017 14:02:37 GMT -5
what bothers me is that there are many fans who only focus on the negative things there won't ever be a perfect gig or a perfect album or a perfect interview. but why focus only on the shit side? it feels some people enjoy being miserable and making others miserable as well. you can be critical and point out things you don't like but sometimes it's good to enjoy life a bit, uh? if it doesn't make you happy, move on to something else. at the same time, those who are 100% on one side need to learn to accept some different opinions as well can we find a balance somehow? just my 2 cents cheers It's for the same reason that when you turn on the news, you don't tend to see the story of the young man helping Grandma with her shopping bags. Negativity invokes more emotion and interest.
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Post by y2koasis on Nov 3, 2017 14:03:24 GMT -5
So correct me if I am wrong, you're saying that because Beady Eye fans were mocked for so long that it's now okay to mock Noel fans? That seems juvenile.
I think Noel is getting a lot scorn because he currently doesn't have the songs. Scissors player didn't help matters...
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Post by ricardogce on Nov 3, 2017 14:08:57 GMT -5
Ok, this is my opinion but after watching Supersonic and reading past interviews by Andy and other people, I'm not sure if I believe some of accusations from Noel.... now, some are proven facts but I've questioned the validity of the Noel legitimacy Anais fight... 1. There has never been any definite confirmation from any other band members... unless I missed it. 2. If that occurred then why would Meg allow Liam to not just hang out with Anais but to be at her house so many years after... if that had been said about My child, I would NEVER want anything to do with him. And he definitely wouldn't be allowed in my house. Now, maybe she forgave him or he apologized but that just doesn't seem like something you ever forgive and forget. 3. I just have a very hard time believing in anything that Noel says, unless it is obviously proven- which are many things. * http://instagr.am/p/U_6U_azHlV * http://instagr.am/p/U_6pNkTHl1 That's one of the things about Noel... The most grievous incidents he recounts either had no witnesses, or witnesses whose recollections don't match his. Tony McCarroll was originally going to name his book "Oasis: The Noel Truth is Nothing Like the Truth", but his lawyer wisely talked him out of it.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Nov 3, 2017 14:12:35 GMT -5
I think Noel is getting a lot scorn because he currently doesn't have the songs. Scissors player didn't help matters... So as already stated, it's my opinion that it's really too soon to tell. What I do know is that I love 2/3. Maybe I won't in the coming months.I also know generally how people react to change. They don't like it. There tends to be a resistance and strong emotions whenever change does occur. And Noel has released 3 songs so far that resemble very little of what he's done before. It's somewhat ironic, as I remember thread after thread of people wishing Noel would do something experimental and different. Now he has.For me STMHTF has two solid hooks, and Fort Knox is a fun instrumental with interesting sounds. Holy Mountain is just okay. I haven't even bothered to listen to it again for over 2 weeks now.
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Post by ricardogce on Nov 3, 2017 14:21:57 GMT -5
PS-- Lest anyone forgets what it was really like when Beady Eye were a thing, please see "Could Andy Bell be any more of a douche?", started because Andy responded to Noel's insinuation that Andy had done nothing to stop the fight that ended Oasis. Neither Noel nor Andy were particularly venomous in their statements, but going by the reaction here, you'd think it'd been Andy who'd questioned Noel's paternity.
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Post by supernovastar94 on Nov 3, 2017 14:27:54 GMT -5
I think a lot of people go into overdrive regarding the split, blaming here and there. In my opinion, it's much more simple. Here's what I think about it:
Noel was clearly unhappy and not enjoying it anymore. It was obvious in his blog that he was really fed up and not enjoying that lifestyle anymore. He had changed, was older, had a little kid and a gf back home that he missed. He probably missed a lot of Anaïs first years and didn't want that to happen with Donovan. He probably felt stagnated and not feeling the band dynamics. Meanwhile there was Liam, being his usual self, not rehearsing, getting out to get married without letting anyone know, drinking and probably insulting Noel every time he got drunk (which Noel has said multiple times and seeing Liam's twitter, I don't have a doubt).
The thing is, Liam had always been like that. He wasn't behaving any worse than in the previous 15 years, hell, probably even better than the 90's. That's what I think Liam truly can't believe Noel blames him, because his attitude was not any different than before. So, throwing a guitar and a plum was probably in the lower scale of what happened before, but for Noel was the last straw. He was tired, unhappy, and fed up with Liam's banter, and that was enough.
Maybe Noel could have waited a week more till the tour was over, but I don't blame him. We all change, we stop enjoying thing we used to enjoy before. I think he was wrong in wanting Ignition and the rest of the band to chip in. Liam and Noel were bigger than everyone else, they couldn't really take sides. Noel expected everyone to support him, but they really couldn't and also probably saw the same as Liam, that he wasn't being really more a pain in the ass than usual, he was just being Liam, but for Noel it was enough.
So I don't think it wasn't anyone's direct fault. Noel could have waited and being more patient? Yes, but he had been patient for years, he just couldn't do it anymore and his heart was not in it. Liam could have been more professional and less annoying? Of course, but maybe he never really thought he was doing any harm, his intentions were not to hurt.
Regarding the rest of the band, I think it speaks volumes that they were with Liam and now are with Noel or on speaking terms with him. They probably couldn't really fathom first why Noel couldn't be bothered anymore, but came to understand his reasons (and I suppose also Noel in hindsight knows that he was wrong to attack the others).
Well, that's just what I think really.
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Post by thomaslivesforever on Nov 3, 2017 14:34:26 GMT -5
I think a lot of people go into overdrive regarding the split, blaming here and there. In my opinion, it's much more simple. Here's what I think about it: Noel was clearly unhappy and not enjoying it anymore. It was obvious in his blog that he was really fed up and not enjoying that lifestyle anymore. He had changed, was older, had a little kid and a gf back home that he missed. He probably missed a lot of Anaïs first years and didn't want that to happen with Donovan. He probably felt stagnated and not feeling the band dynamics. Meanwhile there was Liam, being his usual self, not rehearsing, getting out to get married without letting anyone know, drinking and probably insulting Noel every time he got drunk (which Noel has said multiple times and seeing Liam's twitter, I don't have a doubt). The thing is, Liam had always been like that. He wasn't behaving any worse than in the previous 15 years, hell, probably even better than the 90's. That's what I think Liam truly can't believe Noel blames him, because his attitude was not any different than before. So, throwing a guitar and a plum was probably in the lower scale of what happened before, but for Noel was the last straw. He was tired, unhappy, and fed up with Liam's banter, and that was enough. Maybe Noel could have waited a week more till the tour was over, but I don't blame him. We all change, we stop enjoying thing we used to enjoy before. I think he was wrong in wanting Ignition and the rest of the band to chip in. Liam and Noel were bigger than everyone else, they couldn't really take sides. Noel expected everyone to support him, but they really couldn't and also probably saw the same as Liam, that he wasn't being really more a pain in the ass than usual, he was just being Liam, but for Noel it was enough. So I don't think it wasn't anyone's direct fault. Noel could have waited and being more patient? Yes, but he had been patient for years, he just couldn't do it anymore and his heart was not in it. Liam could have been more professional and less annoying? Of course, but maybe he never really thought he was doing any harm, his intentions were not to hurt. Regarding the rest of the band, I think it speaks volumes that they were with Liam and now are with Noel or on speaking terms with him. They probably couldn't really fathom first why Noel couldn't be bothered anymore, but came to understand his reasons (and I suppose also Noel in hindsight knows that he was wrong to attack the others). Well, that's just what I think really. That's fine on the basis that you believe everything Noel has ever said about the dynamic in Oasis and what happened when they split. Personally I don't believe a lot of what he's said about it. You've also made a lot of assumptions in the first couple of paragraphs.
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Post by ricardogce on Nov 3, 2017 14:38:46 GMT -5
I think a lot of people go into overdrive regarding the split, blaming here and there. In my opinion, it's much more simple. Here's what I think about it: Noel was clearly unhappy and not enjoying it anymore. It was obvious in his blog that he was really fed up and not enjoying that lifestyle anymore. He had changed, was older, had a little kid and a gf back home that he missed. He probably missed a lot of Anaïs first years and didn't want that to happen with Donovan. He probably felt stagnated and not feeling the band dynamics. Meanwhile there was Liam, being his usual self, not rehearsing, getting out to get married without letting anyone know, drinking and probably insulting Noel every time he got drunk (which Noel has said multiple times and seeing Liam's twitter, I don't have a doubt). The thing is, Liam had always been like that. He wasn't behaving any worse than in the previous 15 years, hell, probably even better than the 90's. That's what I think Liam truly can't believe Noel blames him, because his attitude was not any different than before. So, throwing a guitar and a plum was probably in the lower scale of what happened before, but for Noel was the last straw. He was tired, unhappy, and fed up with Liam's banter, and that was enough. Maybe Noel could have waited a week more till the tour was over, but I don't blame him. We all change, we stop enjoying thing we used to enjoy before. I think he was wrong in wanting Ignition and the rest of the band to chip in. Liam and Noel were bigger than everyone else, they couldn't really take sides. Noel expected everyone to support him, but they really couldn't and also probably saw the same as Liam, that he wasn't being really more a pain in the ass than usual, he was just being Liam, but for Noel it was enough. So I don't think it wasn't anyone's direct fault. Noel could have waited and being more patient? Yes, but he had been patient for years, he just couldn't do it anymore and his heart was not in it. Liam could have been more professional and less annoying? Of course, but maybe he never really thought he was doing any harm, his intentions were not to hurt. Regarding the rest of the band, I think it speaks volumes that they were with Liam and now are with Noel or on speaking terms with him. They probably couldn't really fathom first why Noel couldn't be bothered anymore, but came to understand his reasons (and I suppose also Noel in hindsight knows that he was wrong to attack the others). Well, that's just what I think really. I think you're close to the root of the issue: Noel had grown out of the Oasis life, so he took the opportunity to walk out. Liam's resented Noel for walking away from Oasis, and also for blaming him for the split. The rest is all noise for the media. Noel wanted out, and walked, Liam thought Oasis would last till they were both old and grey, and misses it. The rest were just caught in the middle. And really, Gem's called Noel "a great guy to work for", which says a lot about the hierarchy in Oasis. When you're not a founding/vital member, do you really want to get in the middle of a row between the lead songwriter and the lead singer? They can replace you with your own guitar tech if comes to that.
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Post by osoasis on Nov 3, 2017 14:43:47 GMT -5
PS-- Lest anyone forgets what it was really like when Beady Eye were a thing, please see "Could Andy Bell be any more of a douche?", started because Andy responded to Noel's insinuation that Andy had done nothing to stop the fight that ended Oasis. Neither Noel nor Andy were particularly venomous in their statements, but going by the reaction here, you'd think it'd been Andy who'd questioned Noel's paternity. That is something I wanted to say. Sometimes Gem and andy get not deserved hate, "they are boring" or that they "ruined" Oasis, or the shoes things with Andy, I remember the threads in the forum, the hate was just ridiculous.
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Post by supernovastar94 on Nov 3, 2017 14:44:25 GMT -5
I think a lot of people go into overdrive regarding the split, blaming here and there. In my opinion, it's much more simple. Here's what I think about it: Noel was clearly unhappy and not enjoying it anymore. It was obvious in his blog that he was really fed up and not enjoying that lifestyle anymore. He had changed, was older, had a little kid and a gf back home that he missed. He probably missed a lot of Anaïs first years and didn't want that to happen with Donovan. He probably felt stagnated and not feeling the band dynamics. Meanwhile there was Liam, being his usual self, not rehearsing, getting out to get married without letting anyone know, drinking and probably insulting Noel every time he got drunk (which Noel has said multiple times and seeing Liam's twitter, I don't have a doubt). The thing is, Liam had always been like that. He wasn't behaving any worse than in the previous 15 years, hell, probably even better than the 90's. That's what I think Liam truly can't believe Noel blames him, because his attitude was not any different than before. So, throwing a guitar and a plum was probably in the lower scale of what happened before, but for Noel was the last straw. He was tired, unhappy, and fed up with Liam's banter, and that was enough. Maybe Noel could have waited a week more till the tour was over, but I don't blame him. We all change, we stop enjoying thing we used to enjoy before. I think he was wrong in wanting Ignition and the rest of the band to chip in. Liam and Noel were bigger than everyone else, they couldn't really take sides. Noel expected everyone to support him, but they really couldn't and also probably saw the same as Liam, that he wasn't being really more a pain in the ass than usual, he was just being Liam, but for Noel it was enough. So I don't think it wasn't anyone's direct fault. Noel could have waited and being more patient? Yes, but he had been patient for years, he just couldn't do it anymore and his heart was not in it. Liam could have been more professional and less annoying? Of course, but maybe he never really thought he was doing any harm, his intentions were not to hurt. Regarding the rest of the band, I think it speaks volumes that they were with Liam and now are with Noel or on speaking terms with him. They probably couldn't really fathom first why Noel couldn't be bothered anymore, but came to understand his reasons (and I suppose also Noel in hindsight knows that he was wrong to attack the others). Well, that's just what I think really. That's fine on the basis that you believe everything Noel has ever said about the dynamic in Oasis and what happened when they split. Personally I don't believe a lot of what he's said about it. You've also made a lot of assumptions in the first couple of paragraphs. Yeah I know, that's what I said that *I think* that is what happened, can't be certain of course. And yeah I'm making assumptions, based on the interviews with Noel and the band and Noel's blog. However, my point is that I don't think the dynamics really changed that much? I think that the one that changed was Noel. I really have little doubt that Liam would be aggressive towards Noel when drunk. If he can call Sara a "shit Meg" on twitter, who knows what he can say to Noel's face when pissed? IMO Liam probably thinks all that is banter and not really serious, while for Noel it took its toll and couldn't stand his brother banter (when he was fine with it before). He changed, and he wanted the band to change with him, and it didn't happen. And that was it.
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Post by neila83 on Nov 3, 2017 14:44:32 GMT -5
I think a lot of people go into overdrive regarding the split, blaming here and there. In my opinion, it's much more simple. Here's what I think about it: Noel was clearly unhappy and not enjoying it anymore. It was obvious in his blog that he was really fed up and not enjoying that lifestyle anymore. He had changed, was older, had a little kid and a gf back home that he missed. He probably missed a lot of Anaïs first years and didn't want that to happen with Donovan. He probably felt stagnated and not feeling the band dynamics. Meanwhile there was Liam, being his usual self, not rehearsing, getting out to get married without letting anyone know, drinking and probably insulting Noel every time he got drunk (which Noel has said multiple times and seeing Liam's twitter, I don't have a doubt). The thing is, Liam had always been like that. He wasn't behaving any worse than in the previous 15 years, hell, probably even better than the 90's. That's what I think Liam truly can't believe Noel blames him, because his attitude was not any different than before. So, throwing a guitar and a plum was probably in the lower scale of what happened before, but for Noel was the last straw. He was tired, unhappy, and fed up with Liam's banter, and that was enough. Maybe Noel could have waited a week more till the tour was over, but I don't blame him. We all change, we stop enjoying thing we used to enjoy before. I think he was wrong in wanting Ignition and the rest of the band to chip in. Liam and Noel were bigger than everyone else, they couldn't really take sides. Noel expected everyone to support him, but they really couldn't and also probably saw the same as Liam, that he wasn't being really more a pain in the ass than usual, he was just being Liam, but for Noel it was enough. So I don't think it wasn't anyone's direct fault. Noel could have waited and being more patient? Yes, but he had been patient for years, he just couldn't do it anymore and his heart was not in it. Liam could have been more professional and less annoying? Of course, but maybe he never really thought he was doing any harm, his intentions were not to hurt. Regarding the rest of the band, I think it speaks volumes that they were with Liam and now are with Noel or on speaking terms with him. They probably couldn't really fathom first why Noel couldn't be bothered anymore, but came to understand his reasons (and I suppose also Noel in hindsight knows that he was wrong to attack the others). Well, that's just what I think really. I think a lot of what you say is true, although it seems to me it was fairly unrecoverable from when Liam skipped the last recording sessions for DOYS. The atmosphere was horrid the whole tour after that. I suspect Noel pretty much made up his mind then but thought he'd see out the last tour. And then there was the state of Liam's voice that tour, that I can't believe didn't really upset and probably embarrass Noel, hearing his songs being torn apart each night. If us lot were shocked, imagine how he felt? It seems with the improvement now, a lot of the denial that existed on this board at the time about how bad it was has been swept aside. All the anger Liam projects about this says to me he really doesn't want to accept the role deep down he knows he played in provoking Noel, because Oasis was everything to him and he doesn't want it to be his own fault, so he lashes out.
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Post by supernovastar94 on Nov 3, 2017 14:49:19 GMT -5
I think a lot of people go into overdrive regarding the split, blaming here and there. In my opinion, it's much more simple. Here's what I think about it: Noel was clearly unhappy and not enjoying it anymore. It was obvious in his blog that he was really fed up and not enjoying that lifestyle anymore. He had changed, was older, had a little kid and a gf back home that he missed. He probably missed a lot of Anaïs first years and didn't want that to happen with Donovan. He probably felt stagnated and not feeling the band dynamics. Meanwhile there was Liam, being his usual self, not rehearsing, getting out to get married without letting anyone know, drinking and probably insulting Noel every time he got drunk (which Noel has said multiple times and seeing Liam's twitter, I don't have a doubt). The thing is, Liam had always been like that. He wasn't behaving any worse than in the previous 15 years, hell, probably even better than the 90's. That's what I think Liam truly can't believe Noel blames him, because his attitude was not any different than before. So, throwing a guitar and a plum was probably in the lower scale of what happened before, but for Noel was the last straw. He was tired, unhappy, and fed up with Liam's banter, and that was enough. Maybe Noel could have waited a week more till the tour was over, but I don't blame him. We all change, we stop enjoying thing we used to enjoy before. I think he was wrong in wanting Ignition and the rest of the band to chip in. Liam and Noel were bigger than everyone else, they couldn't really take sides. Noel expected everyone to support him, but they really couldn't and also probably saw the same as Liam, that he wasn't being really more a pain in the ass than usual, he was just being Liam, but for Noel it was enough. So I don't think it wasn't anyone's direct fault. Noel could have waited and being more patient? Yes, but he had been patient for years, he just couldn't do it anymore and his heart was not in it. Liam could have been more professional and less annoying? Of course, but maybe he never really thought he was doing any harm, his intentions were not to hurt. Regarding the rest of the band, I think it speaks volumes that they were with Liam and now are with Noel or on speaking terms with him. They probably couldn't really fathom first why Noel couldn't be bothered anymore, but came to understand his reasons (and I suppose also Noel in hindsight knows that he was wrong to attack the others). Well, that's just what I think really. I think you're close to the root of the issue: Noel had grown out of the Oasis life, so he took the opportunity to walk out. Liam's resented Noel for walking away from Oasis, and also for blaming him for the split. The rest is all noise for the media. Noel wanted out, and walked, Liam thought Oasis would last till they were both old and grey, and misses it. The rest were just caught in the middle. And really, Gem's called Noel "a great guy to work for", which says a lot about the hierarchy in Oasis. When you're not a founding/vital member, do you really want to get in the middle of a row between the lead songwriter and the lead singer? They can replace you with your own guitar tech if comes to that. glad you got my point, you summarized better than I could. I think sometimes people get too caught up. Yes, many loved this band and meant for them more than life. But they are human beings. They can grow tired of it, they can feel angry and sad and do and say stupid things. Not everything is a conspiracy theory or has some dark meaning behind it.
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Post by osoasis on Nov 3, 2017 14:50:30 GMT -5
What I think changed Noel's mind the most was the Canada attack, he wasn't the same after that.
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Post by ricardogce on Nov 3, 2017 14:51:39 GMT -5
I think a lot of people go into overdrive regarding the split, blaming here and there. In my opinion, it's much more simple. Here's what I think about it: Noel was clearly unhappy and not enjoying it anymore. It was obvious in his blog that he was really fed up and not enjoying that lifestyle anymore. He had changed, was older, had a little kid and a gf back home that he missed. He probably missed a lot of Anaïs first years and didn't want that to happen with Donovan. He probably felt stagnated and not feeling the band dynamics. Meanwhile there was Liam, being his usual self, not rehearsing, getting out to get married without letting anyone know, drinking and probably insulting Noel every time he got drunk (which Noel has said multiple times and seeing Liam's twitter, I don't have a doubt). The thing is, Liam had always been like that. He wasn't behaving any worse than in the previous 15 years, hell, probably even better than the 90's. That's what I think Liam truly can't believe Noel blames him, because his attitude was not any different than before. So, throwing a guitar and a plum was probably in the lower scale of what happened before, but for Noel was the last straw. He was tired, unhappy, and fed up with Liam's banter, and that was enough. Maybe Noel could have waited a week more till the tour was over, but I don't blame him. We all change, we stop enjoying thing we used to enjoy before. I think he was wrong in wanting Ignition and the rest of the band to chip in. Liam and Noel were bigger than everyone else, they couldn't really take sides. Noel expected everyone to support him, but they really couldn't and also probably saw the same as Liam, that he wasn't being really more a pain in the ass than usual, he was just being Liam, but for Noel it was enough. So I don't think it wasn't anyone's direct fault. Noel could have waited and being more patient? Yes, but he had been patient for years, he just couldn't do it anymore and his heart was not in it. Liam could have been more professional and less annoying? Of course, but maybe he never really thought he was doing any harm, his intentions were not to hurt. Regarding the rest of the band, I think it speaks volumes that they were with Liam and now are with Noel or on speaking terms with him. They probably couldn't really fathom first why Noel couldn't be bothered anymore, but came to understand his reasons (and I suppose also Noel in hindsight knows that he was wrong to attack the others). Well, that's just what I think really. I think a lot of what you say is true, although it seems to me it was fairly unrecoverable from when Liam skipped the last recording sessions for DOYS. The atmosphere was horrid the whole tour after that. I suspect Noel pretty much made up his mind then but thought he'd see out the last tour. And then there was the state of Liam's voice that tour, that I can't believe didn't really upset and probably embarrass Noel, hearing his songs being torn apart each night. If us lot were shocked, imagine how he felt? It seems with the improvement now, a lot of the denial that existed on this board at the time about how bad it was has been swept aside. I would like to think Noel would feel for his brother and the fact that Liam's voice had been damaged by almost 20 years of punishing his throat to do Noel's songs justice. If his only thoughts were "right, he's used up now, time to leave", I'd be disappointed. I agree with this to a degree. People often project their guilt outwards to try to feel less guilty. "It wasn't just me, what about what you did?" I know I've been guilty of that in the past.
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Post by neila83 on Nov 3, 2017 18:25:30 GMT -5
I think a lot of what you say is true, although it seems to me it was fairly unrecoverable from when Liam skipped the last recording sessions for DOYS. The atmosphere was horrid the whole tour after that. I suspect Noel pretty much made up his mind then but thought he'd see out the last tour. And then there was the state of Liam's voice that tour, that I can't believe didn't really upset and probably embarrass Noel, hearing his songs being torn apart each night. If us lot were shocked, imagine how he felt? It seems with the improvement now, a lot of the denial that existed on this board at the time about how bad it was has been swept aside. I would like to think Noel would feel for his brother and the fact that Liam's voice had been damaged by almost 20 years of punishing his throat to do Noel's songs justice. If his only thoughts were "right, he's used up now, time to leave", I'd be disappointed. I agree with this to a degree. People often project their guilt outwards to try to feel less guilty. "It wasn't just me, what about what you did?" I know I've been guilty of that in the past. On your point regarding Liam's voice, it might depend on whether Noel saw Liam doing anything or altering his behaviour to try and look after it. If he just saw him carrying on the same, not turning up for soundchecks and then complaining about his sound every night, I guess the sympathy soon runs out... On the latter point, likewise. I imagine everyone who's ever been in a relationship thats ended knows about it. Even when you've done wrong, you try to find all sorts of ways to blame the other party to avoid the guilt. (This may go in part for Noel too).
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Post by y2koasis on Nov 3, 2017 18:48:31 GMT -5
I would like to think Noel would feel for his brother and the fact that Liam's voice had been damaged by almost 20 years of punishing his throat to do Noel's songs justice. If his only thoughts were "right, he's used up now, time to leave", I'd be disappointed. I agree with this to a degree. People often project their guilt outwards to try to feel less guilty. "It wasn't just me, what about what you did?" I know I've been guilty of that in the past. On your point regarding Liam's voice, it might depend on whether Noel saw Liam doing anything or altering his behaviour to try and look after it. If he just saw him carrying on the same, not turning up for soundchecks and then complaining about his sound every night, I guess the sympathy soon runs out... On the latter point, likewise. I imagine everyone who's ever been in a relationship thats ended knows about it. Even when you've done wrong, you try to find all sorts of ways to blame the other party to avoid the guilt. (This may go in part for Noel too). I'm in the camp that Noel saw Liam's diminishing vocal range as a reason for his departure. Used his brother like a broken instrument. Leaving the way he did - in the last 1/4 mile of a marathon tour - only added to the media coverage as well to launch his solo career. Pretty gross.
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Post by supernovastar94 on Nov 3, 2017 19:24:19 GMT -5
On your point regarding Liam's voice, it might depend on whether Noel saw Liam doing anything or altering his behaviour to try and look after it. If he just saw him carrying on the same, not turning up for soundchecks and then complaining about his sound every night, I guess the sympathy soon runs out... On the latter point, likewise. I imagine everyone who's ever been in a relationship thats ended knows about it. Even when you've done wrong, you try to find all sorts of ways to blame the other party to avoid the guilt. (This may go in part for Noel too). I'm in the camp that Noel saw Liam's diminishing vocal range as a reason for his departure. Used his brother like a broken instrument. Leaving the way he did - in the last 1/4 mile of a marathon tour - only added to the media coverage as well to launch his solo career. Pretty gross. How did that help his solo career? This view is the one I don't tend to agree with. The way I see it, Noel was simply fed up with many things, and those days were the last straw for him. I don't buy the "it all was a masterplan from him and he set Liam a trap" theory.
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Post by y2koasis on Nov 3, 2017 19:37:46 GMT -5
I'm in the camp that Noel saw Liam's diminishing vocal range as a reason for his departure. Used his brother like a broken instrument. Leaving the way he did - in the last 1/4 mile of a marathon tour - only added to the media coverage as well to launch his solo career. Pretty gross. How did that help his solo career? This view is the one I don't tend to agree with. The way I see it, Noel was simply fed up with many things, and those days were the last straw for him. I don't buy the "it all was a masterplan from him and he set Liam a trap" theory. A big bust up that finally breaks up a fractious band after a decade and half plays better to the media then Noel announcing Oasis departure and forthcoming solo album a few months after the tour ends. More ink, more sympathy, and more sales.
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Post by y2koasis on Nov 3, 2017 19:41:05 GMT -5
What I think changed Noel's mind the most was the Canada attack, he wasn't the same after that. I was there. That show was really going on well and that changed the whole tenor. It was a really dangerous place for it to happen, too, as the venue was on an island it had the feelings of a riot (with literally no way off the island) if they didn't come back on. That is a sound theory IMO that Toronto was the beginning of the end. Saw them in Detroit a few months later and they were a shell of their former selves. Worst gig I ever seen the band play out of the many I had seen.
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Post by jxing on Nov 3, 2017 19:52:45 GMT -5
What I think changed Noel's mind the most was the Canada attack, he wasn't the same after that. I was there. That show was really going on well and that changed the whole tenor. It was a really dangerous play for it to happen, too, as the place was on an island it had the feelings of a riot (with literally no way off the island) if they didn't come back on. That is a sound theory IMO that Toronto was the beginning of the end. Saw them in Detroit a few months later and they were a shell of their former selves. Worst gig I ever seen the band play out of the many I had seen. Makes sense considering he was injured... that kind of thing also messes with you psychologically, too
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Post by neila83 on Nov 3, 2017 20:05:04 GMT -5
I was there. That show was really going on well and that changed the whole tenor. It was a really dangerous play for it to happen, too, as the place was on an island it had the feelings of a riot (with literally no way off the island) if they didn't come back on. That is a sound theory IMO that Toronto was the beginning of the end. Saw them in Detroit a few months later and they were a shell of their former selves. Worst gig I ever seen the band play out of the many I had seen. Makes sense considering he was injured... that kind of thing also messes with you psychologically, too Totally, especially as he had to go back into the same environment night after night. I live in Mexico City and following the earthquake I now have a pretty good understanding of post-traumatic shock; I would imagine Noel was very nervous on stage for quite some time.
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