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Post by The Escapist on Nov 2, 2017 23:11:18 GMT -5
Maybe because Noel's new tunes are better than Beady Eye? Personally, I think Fort Knox is fucking amazing, I like Holy Mountain, and I think STMHTF could be really gorgeous if the studio does it's job. I'd take each over all but maybe 2-3 Beady Eye tunes.
That said, who really cares? Just listen to the music you enjoy, or talk rationally about the music you don't. I don't see how comparing the reaction on here to BE's music and Noel's (particularly when it's often centred around someone playing the scissors) is gonna lead to much interesting discussion. It's possible that people just like different music.
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Post by thatlad on Nov 3, 2017 2:05:42 GMT -5
Some take music as if it's everything with life hahahah. Both Liam and Noel fanboys and fangirls. Crack a cold one with the lads and sit down
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Post by bringmethemonkey on Nov 3, 2017 2:55:37 GMT -5
Just some thoughts:
Liam the frontman is the Id - he’s the charismatic, visceral, instinctual, carnal being. Ashcroft summed it up well at the Q awards when he said Liam’s defining performance characteristics are restrained aggression and economy of movement...it’s sexy and arresting and hypnotising but his worth may be diminished or underestimated because it’s not seen as being a “talent” and it rides close to the edge of hubris and brutishness.
Noel the songwriter is the super-ego - he’s aligned with intellectualism, critical thought and empathy. The classical artist - genius even. Lauded for his insights.
This is a constructed narrative that plays well in the media. Obviously they are both complex rounded humans. It might justify why it’s easier to take a pop at Liam.
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Post by chamu on Nov 3, 2017 3:58:10 GMT -5
Just one thought about this:
Liam has played 4 gigs in the last 5 days. Three performances in the last 24 hours(Newcastle, bbc radio morning and bbc 2 concert). Well, nevertheless, a lot of people is on the bbc 2 concert thread complaining and checking out every little detail about Liam voice. It´s insane!! Instead of just enjoying the gig!
In the other hand, Noel has played on Jools Holland, perfectly rested, and his voice hasn´t been a good one. And only just few members has pointed out this.
So Liam&Noel have played a gig with a no perfect voice...and in which section is the discussion about that?
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Post by Just Call Me The Roller on Nov 3, 2017 4:44:57 GMT -5
Just one thought about this: Liam has played 4 gigs in the last 5 days. Three performances in the last 24 hours(Newcastle, bbc radio morning and bbc 2 concert). Well, nevertheless, a lot of people is on the bbc 2 concert thread complaining and checking out every little detail about Liam voice. It´s insane!! Instead of just enjoying the gig! In the other hand, Noel has played on Jools Holland, perfectly rested, and his voice hasn´t been a good one. And only just few members has pointed out this. So Liam&Noel have played a gig with a no perfect voice...and in which section is the discussion about that? Someone actually called Liam's voice "atrocious" on Rockin' Chair for God's sake. Imagine if someone said this about Noel's boredom fest which is his rendition of Wonderwall, which he does because he obviously can't match Liam's voice on it. Those who deny Liam has been under a much larger scrutiny cannot be serious.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2017 5:20:43 GMT -5
I feel some people here are super critical about everything and sometimes it would be good for them to try and just enjoy the music and performances. I'm not saying you shouldn't offer criticism, but often it's people repeating the same thing over and over again in every thread ("Noel's lost the plot", "Liam's band is shit", etc.)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2017 5:49:55 GMT -5
Noel mocks me as an oasis fan and thinks Im not cool enough to embrace his new sound.
Liam is fan catering me as an Oasis fan.
Of course Im having a different set of rules for them.
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Post by neila83 on Nov 3, 2017 7:58:03 GMT -5
Just one thought about this: Liam has played 4 gigs in the last 5 days. Three performances in the last 24 hours(Newcastle, bbc radio morning and bbc 2 concert). Well, nevertheless, a lot of people is on the bbc 2 concert thread complaining and checking out every little detail about Liam voice. It´s insane!! Instead of just enjoying the gig! In the other hand, Noel has played on Jools Holland, perfectly rested, and his voice hasn´t been a good one. And only just few members has pointed out this. So Liam&Noel have played a gig with a no perfect voice...and in which section is the discussion about that? Someone actually called Liam's voice "atrocious" on Rockin' Chair for God's sake. Imagine if someone said this about Noel's boredom fest which is his rendition of Wonderwall, which he does because he obviously can't match Liam's voice on it. Those who deny Liam has been under a much larger scrutiny cannot be serious. You're just proving that this is about people's persecution complex rather than a rational observation. Liam is getting plenty of praise for his live performances and most are recognising that his voice is vastly improved. Noel is getting a lot of criticism for his new songs, and especially STMHTF. But human nature means people only notice when their 'side' is under attack. Grow a pair. This is like when tories say the BBC is left wing biased, and labour say its right wing biased.
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Post by neila83 on Nov 3, 2017 8:11:07 GMT -5
Someone actually called Liam's voice "atrocious" on Rockin' Chair for God's sake. Imagine if someone said this about Noel's boredom fest which is his rendition of Wonderwall, which he does because he obviously can't match Liam's voice on it. Those who deny Liam has been under a much larger scrutiny cannot be serious. You're just proving that this is about people's persecution complex rather than a rational observation. Liam is getting plenty of praise for his live performances and most are recognising that his voice is vastly improved. Noel is getting a lot of criticism for his new songs, and especially STMHTF. There was an entire thread dedicated to slaggging off Noel's new arrangements. But human nature means people only notice when their 'side' is under attack. Grow a pair. This is like when tories say the BBC is left wing biased, and labour say its right wing biased.
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Nov 3, 2017 8:23:46 GMT -5
This is hilarious.
"Oh he is getting thrown this and that at him which isn't fair. Why don't people throw shit at the other one because he is *insert swear words*." Pot. Kettle. Black.
And what's with this whole "Oh you prefer one over the other so that automatically means you want the other one to fail."? That is absolute bullshit. You can be a fan of both, you know. This is an Oasis forum after all.
And third. Stop bitching. If it's so horrible on here, why don't you just leave? FFS.
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Post by andymorris on Nov 3, 2017 8:38:12 GMT -5
The thing is, we only see what we want to see. Beady Eye were (often unfairly) criticized by many people on here because they thought the music was subpar. And now, Noel is (often unfairly) criticized by many people on here because they think the music is subpar. And also because they believe he suddenly became a dick in the last two years. Yeah, the same man who in 1995 told Blur to catch AIDS and die. Honestly, I see very little difference. Some of the shit that gets thrown at Noel right now is insane. Definitely as bad as the crazy shit that people threw at Beady Eye. I agree. I think this is due to general defiance toward the "elite", whatever it is. For the basic Oasis fanbase, Noel seem to have sold his soul to whatever "elite" they want him to belong to. Noel is the same he's ever been, very harsh in his comments. But this time it is directed to Liam, who played the card "Man of the People" perfectly, although we know he clearly is not. Liam also played the card of the poor little brother abandonned by his mean older bro, and well, keep repeating that someone is a vagina and people will believe it. There's also a kind of silent hate for people who succeed in everything and are happy. And well, Noel has thrown his happiness in our faces the past few months. There is a study that shows how a Facebook timeline with post showing the happiness of your friend can seriously put some people into depression. This is probably the case for some of the fans. They liked him when he had bad teeths and was divorcing. they hate him with his white smile and perfect wife. In the other hand, Noel has played on Jools Holland, perfectly rested, and his voice hasn´t been a good one. And only just few members has pointed out this. Didnt he just come back from a tour in south america, playing the whole month of october in 3 or 4 different countries not exactly as small as england, in front of people who are not his fans and that you actually have to convince, having a jetlag to recover from and then play a two new songs for the first time on tv then a small gig with a lot of new material just a few days later ? Such a good rest he's had.
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Post by detroitmadferit on Nov 3, 2017 9:06:25 GMT -5
Also... let me add another thing. In the past months we had some people on here who clearly wanted Liam to fail. Liam's success shut them up for the most part. What I notice now is that some other users act like they desperately want to see Noel fail. What's the point of that? I won't tell names. You know who you were... or are. Grow up. I am/was looking forward to Noel's new record. Two of the three songs don't live up to my expectations. He has set a high bar and he hasn't come near approaching it on Holy Mountain or She Taught Me How to Fly. I am sure there will be a highlight or two on the album but if the album, in general, is regarded as a failure it may be the best thing for him. He seems to have let success get to his head and that is never a good thing creatively. An aside. I've met them both and Liam is much more friendly and down to earth. How Noel managed to spin he was some kind of monster for so many years was the biggest sin I think he committed. To be fair, Liam did straight up skip many performances, quit mid-concert, etc. and would instead whine, drink/smoke, or all of the above. He also sabotaged any chance Oasis had at becoming The Biggest Band in the World since he'd do something stupid every time Oasis was in the U.S. (like spit on the stage or throw beer bottles at the MTV Awards). The Pretty Green stuff (with the demands for advertising) also didn't come off well for Liam. His voice was shit for a good decade, too, because he never took care of himself until now. So, I do think Liam earned himself a lot of the criticism. Noel WAS the more responsible one, and he DID write 95% of the good Oasis songs. But -- and I say this as a huge Noel fan -- Noel has definitely rubbed me the wrong way the past couple of years. He seems very cocky in interviews, even though his second solo album was just average and his third one appears like it won't be very good at all. Liam, while still going on crazy obsessive rants about Noel all the time (which annoys me), seems funny and humble in interviews -- and it doesn't hurt that his voice sounds the best it has sounded in 15 years and that he got some good song writers to make 2/3rds of the songs on his album pretty damn enjoyable.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2017 9:22:59 GMT -5
oh fuck, let it go man Why? It's fucking hilarious, Noel Gallagher, Noel fucking Gallagher, has got a woman on stage to open and shut scissors into a microphone.
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Post by y2koasis on Nov 3, 2017 9:25:53 GMT -5
I am/was looking forward to Noel's new record. Two of the three songs don't live up to my expectations. He has set a high bar and he hasn't come near approaching it on Holy Mountain or She Taught Me How to Fly. I am sure there will be a highlight or two on the album but if the album, in general, is regarded as a failure it may be the best thing for him. He seems to have let success get to his head and that is never a good thing creatively. An aside. I've met them both and Liam is much more friendly and down to earth. How Noel managed to spin he was some kind of monster for so many years was the biggest sin I think he committed. To be fair, Liam did straight up skip many performances, quit mid-concert, etc. and would instead whine, drink/smoke, or all of the above. He also sabotaged any chance Oasis had at becoming The Biggest Band in the World since he'd do something stupid every time Oasis was in the U.S. (like spit on the stage or throw beer bottles at the MTV Awards). The Pretty Green stuff (with the demands for advertising) also didn't come off well for Liam. His voice was shit for a good decade, too, because he never took care of himself until now. So, I do think Liam earned himself a lot of the criticism. Noel WAS the more responsible one, and he DID write 95% of the good Oasis songs. But -- and I say this as a huge Noel fan -- Noel has definitely rubbed me the wrong way the past couple of years. He seems very cocky in interviews, even though his second solo album was just average and his third one appears like it won't be very good at all. Liam, while still going on crazy obsessive rants about Noel all the time (which annoys me), seems funny and humble in interviews -- and it doesn't hurt that his voice sounds the best it has sounded in 15 years and that he got some good song writers to make 2/3rds of the songs on his album pretty damn enjoyable. Noel walked on a tour and they carried on without him. People skip over that. As for unplugged, I think that Liam in a weird way wanted Noel to have a moment in the spotlight. Noel was full of shit when he complained about that after. That was his dream come true.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2017 10:28:03 GMT -5
I am/was looking forward to Noel's new record. Two of the three songs don't live up to my expectations. He has set a high bar and he hasn't come near approaching it on Holy Mountain or She Taught Me How to Fly. I am sure there will be a highlight or two on the album but if the album, in general, is regarded as a failure it may be the best thing for him. He seems to have let success get to his head and that is never a good thing creatively. An aside. I've met them both and Liam is much more friendly and down to earth. How Noel managed to spin he was some kind of monster for so many years was the biggest sin I think he committed. To be fair, Liam did straight up skip many performances, quit mid-concert, etc. and would instead whine, drink/smoke, or all of the above. He also sabotaged any chance Oasis had at becoming The Biggest Band in the World since he'd do something stupid every time Oasis was in the U.S. (like spit on the stage or throw beer bottles at the MTV Awards). The Pretty Green stuff (with the demands for advertising) also didn't come off well for Liam. His voice was shit for a good decade, too, because he never took care of himself until now.
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Nov 3, 2017 10:44:16 GMT -5
To be fair, Liam did straight up skip many performances, quit mid-concert, etc. and would instead whine, drink/smoke, or all of the above. He also sabotaged any chance Oasis had at becoming The Biggest Band in the World since he'd do something stupid every time Oasis was in the U.S. (like spit on the stage or throw beer bottles at the MTV Awards). The Pretty Green stuff (with the demands for advertising) also didn't come off well for Liam. His voice was shit for a good decade, too, because he never took care of himself until now. So, I do think Liam earned himself a lot of the criticism. Noel WAS the more responsible one, and he DID write 95% of the good Oasis songs. But -- and I say this as a huge Noel fan -- Noel has definitely rubbed me the wrong way the past couple of years. He seems very cocky in interviews, even though his second solo album was just average and his third one appears like it won't be very good at all. Liam, while still going on crazy obsessive rants about Noel all the time (which annoys me), seems funny and humble in interviews -- and it doesn't hurt that his voice sounds the best it has sounded in 15 years and that he got some good song writers to make 2/3rds of the songs on his album pretty damn enjoyable. Noel walked on a tour and they carried on without him. People skip over that. As for unplugged, I think that Liam in a weird way wanted Noel to have a moment in the spotlight. Noel was full of shit when he complained about that after. That was his dream come true. April fools was 7 months ago.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Nov 3, 2017 10:45:42 GMT -5
I am/was looking forward to Noel's new record. Two of the three songs don't live up to my expectations. He has set a high bar and he hasn't come near approaching it on Holy Mountain or She Taught Me How to Fly. I am sure there will be a highlight or two on the album but if the album, in general, is regarded as a failure it may be the best thing for him. He seems to have let success get to his head and that is never a good thing creatively. An aside. I've met them both and Liam is much more friendly and down to earth. How Noel managed to spin he was some kind of monster for so many years was the biggest sin I think he committed. To be fair, Liam did straight up skip many performances, quit mid-concert, etc. and would instead whine, drink/smoke, or all of the above. He also sabotaged any chance Oasis had at becoming The Biggest Band in the World since he'd do something stupid every time Oasis was in the U.S. (like spit on the stage or throw beer bottles at the MTV Awards). The Pretty Green stuff (with the demands for advertising) also didn't come off well for Liam. His voice was shit for a good decade, too, because he never took care of himself until now. So, I do think Liam earned himself a lot of the criticism. Noel WAS the more responsible one, and he DID write 95% of the good Oasis songs. But -- and I say this as a huge Noel fan -- Noel has definitely rubbed me the wrong way the past couple of years. He seems very cocky in interviews, even though his second solo album was just average and his third one appears like it won't be very good at all. Liam, while still going on crazy obsessive rants about Noel all the time (which annoys me), seems funny and humble in interviews -- and it doesn't hurt that his voice sounds the best it has sounded in 15 years and that he got some good song writers to make 2/3rds of the songs on his album pretty damn enjoyable. People forget this but Noel............... - Briefly quit mid USA tour in 1994 - Walked out of the USA tour fall 1996 - Quit touring overseas spring 2000 - Quit the band in 2009
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Post by ricardogce on Nov 3, 2017 10:46:41 GMT -5
I agree. I think this is due to general defiance toward the "elite", whatever it is. For the basic Oasis fanbase, Noel seem to have sold his soul to whatever "elite" they want him to belong to. Noel is the same he's ever been, very harsh in his comments. Noel has turned the harshness onto his own fans, which he didn't use to do before. And as pertains to "elite"... The people he pals around with today are people he wouldn't have been caught dead with when his cultural relevance was at its peak. You can consider the change a positive one (personally, I think befriending Damon Albarn was a good thing), by all means. What you can't do is pretend he's still the same person he was. He comes off as eager to be part of the establishment he used to mock. Noel quit the band, Liam didn't. You can spin that in any direction, but one person quit, the other didn't. Persecution complexes, indeed...
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Post by martinpaul on Nov 3, 2017 10:49:09 GMT -5
The simple reason is that for years Noel controlled the media narrative. He did 99% of all the press so consequently all we heard was he was amazing and Liam a drunken bum who was blamed for everything - it's only now that people are starting to see the real Noel.
It's a separate point altogether but Noel is massively in bed with The Sun because they print anti Liam stuff for him, had the ex showbiz editor backstage on tour with them yet Liam won't have anything to do with them. The same Noel pretends to support Hilsborough campaign. He's just a media hoare who is disappearing up his own arse.
Now Liam is doing his press and his personality is shining through the tables are being turned. It really is death by a thousand cuts for Noel, one by one Liam is taking every Noel sung Oasis song and doing it better - DLBIA and Rockin Chair (even with 3 gigs in 24 hrs or whatever) were far better than any Noel version.
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Post by Let It 🩸 on Nov 3, 2017 10:54:13 GMT -5
I knew this thread would be entertaining and it hasn't disappointed....
Thanks.
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Post by y2koasis on Nov 3, 2017 10:56:08 GMT -5
To be fair, Liam did straight up skip many performances, quit mid-concert, etc. and would instead whine, drink/smoke, or all of the above. He also sabotaged any chance Oasis had at becoming The Biggest Band in the World since he'd do something stupid every time Oasis was in the U.S. (like spit on the stage or throw beer bottles at the MTV Awards). The Pretty Green stuff (with the demands for advertising) also didn't come off well for Liam. His voice was shit for a good decade, too, because he never took care of himself until now. So, I do think Liam earned himself a lot of the criticism. Noel WAS the more responsible one, and he DID write 95% of the good Oasis songs. But -- and I say this as a huge Noel fan -- Noel has definitely rubbed me the wrong way the past couple of years. He seems very cocky in interviews, even though his second solo album was just average and his third one appears like it won't be very good at all. Liam, while still going on crazy obsessive rants about Noel all the time (which annoys me), seems funny and humble in interviews -- and it doesn't hurt that his voice sounds the best it has sounded in 15 years and that he got some good song writers to make 2/3rds of the songs on his album pretty damn enjoyable. People forget this but Noel............... - Briefly quit mid USA tour in 1994 - Walked out of the USA four fall 1996 - Quit touring overseas spring 2000 - Quit the band in 2009 And blatantly admitted to the press he should have done Morning Glory himself for all the money. He has wanted to be a solo artist as soon as he hit it big. Liam was the one person who was keeping Oasis afloat as a band in many respects. Morning Glory, of course in my opinion, would not have near the cultural impact it had without Liam's unique sound.
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Post by y2koasis on Nov 3, 2017 10:58:14 GMT -5
The simple reason is that for years Noel controlled the media narrative. He did 99% of all the press so consequently all we heard was he was amazing and Liam a drunken bum who was blamed for everything - it's only now that people are starting to see the real Noel. It's a separate point altogether but Noel is massively in bed with The Sun because they print anti Liam stuff for him, had the ex showbiz editor backstage on tour with them yet Liam won't have anything to do with them. The same Noel pretends to support Hilsborough campaign. He's just a media hoare who is disappearing up his own arse. Now Liam is doing his press and his personality is shining through the tables are being turned. It really is death by a thousand cuts for Noel, one by one Liam is taking every Noel sung Oasis song and doing it better - DLBIA and Rockin Chair (even with 3 gigs in 24 hrs or whatever) were far better than any Noel version. I watched Noel's Rockin' Chair yesterday. It was pretty putrid. Best thing that happened for Liam was Twitter. Great medium for his banter.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Nov 3, 2017 11:00:56 GMT -5
Beady Eye was bad on average. It wasn't different. It wasn't fresh. It was the same old tired style but of inferior quality to Noel's work in Oasis and his comparative solo efforts.
Even BE wasn't all that different, it just felt more modern and better developed, which is why it fared better. That album received the praise that it deserved, unfortunately it still offered too much filler which most recognize in hindsight.
Noel is genuinely trying to reform his sound on this record. He's leaving his comfort zone. Unsurprisingly, a lot of people hate it. Most people claim to want change, but in reality, nobody actually likes it. It's the lie we tell ourselves. It takes time for change to sink in before we can appreciate its value.
The important question is whether or not the hate is deserved here? Are they hating it just because it's radically different or because it's genuinely of inferior quality to his previous works? It's too soon to tell in my opinion.
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Post by andymorris on Nov 3, 2017 11:03:17 GMT -5
People forget this but Noel............... - Briefly quit mid USA tour in 1994 - Walked out of the USA four fall 1996 - Quit touring overseas spring 2000 - Quit the band in 2009 dont wanna piss on your parade but: - Briefly quit mid USA tour in 1994But why, i may ask ? 1994: During an L.A. concert, Liam changes the words of “Live Forever” to annoy his brother. (“Maybe I don’t really wanna know/Why you pick your nose”—scathing stuff.) He also hits Noel over the head with a tambourine and insults the American crowd. Noel briefly leaves the band, but rejoins them later that tour.- Noel Quit touring overseas spring 2000 But why ? Because Liam questionned the legitimacy of Anais, Noel's daughter by his former wife, Meg Mathews. "I've never forgiven him because he's never apologised," said Noel in 2005. But Noel carried on with Liam for another 9 years after that. Who would have done that ? I know i wouldn't have...
People forget this but Liam............... - Nearly broke up Oasis en route to success by doing stupid stuff on a ferry in 1994 - Quit US tour in 1996 to buy... a home - Famously refused to do the unplugged minutes before the show was gonna be filmed, then mocking his brother from the balcony - Quit the DOYS sessions in 2008 to get married, not inviting brother, resulting in a half record being made About that last point, from the Guardian : In February 2008, while the band were finishing Dig Out Your Soul in Los Angeles, Liam disappeared back home for the weekend, marrying long-term partner Nicole Appleton without telling his colleagues, or inviting his brother, for fear it would all end up in the tabloids. "They had a major unreported bust-up that resulted in a couple of tracks not making it on the album, because Liam hadn't done his vocals," says author and Mojo journalist Pat Gilbert, who joined the band on tour last autumn. "I rarely saw them together then. Liam was living a completely separate life to the band."
Hmm, well that's not a Noel story, but a journalist testimony on the last months of Oasis. Interesting to note that the loner and outsider, here, is Liam... not Noel. "Oasis was my life", Liam recently said. but apparently, it was not that important in 2008. Both had breakdowns, because the pressure was heavy. but Noel has carried 90% of that pressure for most of the Oasis career. Liam was just showing up and singing. He's a big baby and facts, as told by other people than Noel, are proving that. Noel is no angel, but Give the man some respect. Liam was the voice of Oasis, but Noel made it happen, and made it last as long as he could.
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Post by Spaceman on Nov 3, 2017 11:05:51 GMT -5
People forget this but Noel............... - Briefly quit mid USA tour in 1994 - Walked out of the USA four fall 1996 - Quit touring overseas spring 2000 - Quit the band in 2009 And blatantly admitted to the press he should have done Morning Glory himself for all the money. He has wanted to be a solo artist as soon as he hit it big. Liam was the one person who was keeping Oasis afloat as a band in many respects. Morning Glory, of course in my opinion, would not have near the cultural impact it had without Liam's unique sound. I have never taken that statement seriously tbh, sure the thought of "what if I had gone solo" crossed his mind but deep down he knew he needed Liam for that record
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