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Post by tiger40 on Oct 1, 2020 13:18:28 GMT -5
Agree. The thing is Noel has been a big prick over this and he needs to get real.
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Post by bt95 on Oct 3, 2020 5:24:17 GMT -5
Unfortunately, this has greater reaching effects. Take business as an example. We have fast food places like Burger King considering getting rid of the indoor restaurant entirely and replacing human orderers with kiosks and mobile ordering, emphasizing delivery. Many businesses are getting rid of offices entirely in favor of work from home models, as it can be cheaper to not have to pay for a space and the maintenance and whatnot that comes with it. Then of course, the businesses that shut down and don't return. It's definitely changing the world we are used to interact with. Some might say for the better in many of these cases, but it's especially harmful for jobs overall, as it inches us closer to automation. Automation will come no matter what and it’s a good thing. So what we have to do is find a way to benefit the most from it, reduce working hours and give everybody a universal basic income. Create new jobs that’s beneficial to the community like in the healthcare system. I work from home for over 4 months now and it’s absolutely beautiful, I’m more productive than before. We could all have a pretty optimistic outlook into the future if there was more awareness to what we are able to accomplish in the near future. The government should not have such control over people's lives. I'm lucky in that the job I have, I can do both - work from home and in an office. But people just working from home has a massive knock on impact. City centres are now totally going to be on the brink. A lot already were. Leeds, for example, relies massively on people who work in the city to be there in the day.
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Oct 6, 2020 7:32:38 GMT -5
Why the fuck would scientists, doctors, health care professionals, researchers and anyone else LIE about face masks? What do the government have to gain out of FORCING YOU to wear face masks? Seriously, Noel. Think about it. What could Boris Johnson (who is a massive vagina, by the way) possibly have to gain out of making you wear a mask? What power does he gain? What sinister plot do the government have? If you can answer any of those questions (without it sounding like something smeared in shit on a lunatic asylum wall) then I will consider your argument. Otherwise, you can jog on you miserable fucking gammon. I fucking can't stand when someone says this whole corona thing is some kind of conspiracy cooked up by the government anyway. Why would they come up with something that destroys the economy and makes so many people sick? And why worldwide? Fucking hell, put on your tinfoil hat already.
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Post by defmaybe00 on Oct 6, 2020 8:18:23 GMT -5
Why the fuck would scientists, doctors, health care professionals, researchers and anyone else LIE about face masks? What do the government have to gain out of FORCING YOU to wear face masks? Seriously, Noel. Think about it. What could Boris Johnson (who is a massive vagina, by the way) possibly have to gain out of making you wear a mask? What power does he gain? What sinister plot do the government have? If you can answer any of those questions (without it sounding like something smeared in shit on a lunatic asylum wall) then I will consider your argument. Otherwise, you can jog on you miserable fucking gammon. I fucking can't stand when someone says this whole corona thing is some kind of conspiracy cooked up by the government anyway. Why would they come up with something that destroys the economy and makes so many people sick? And why worldwide? Fucking hell, put on your tinfoil hat already. Noel said the same thing, tbf
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Post by The Chief on Oct 6, 2020 12:11:54 GMT -5
I fucking can't stand when someone says this whole corona thing is some kind of conspiracy cooked up by the government anyway. Why would they come up with something that destroys the economy and makes so many people sick? And why worldwide? Fucking hell, put on your tinfoil hat already. Noel said the same thing, tbf Which part?
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Post by defmaybe00 on Oct 6, 2020 12:56:39 GMT -5
Noel said the same thing, tbf Which part? Another pod Even in this one he never claimed it was fake or anything, but he made it clear in the last one and said more or less the same as the post above
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Post by The Chief on Oct 6, 2020 17:01:31 GMT -5
Another pod Even in this one he never claimed it was fake or anything, but he made it clear in the last one and said more or less the same as the post above No I meant which part of this: Why the fuck would scientists, doctors, health care professionals, researchers and anyone else LIE about face masks? What do the government have to gain out of FORCING YOU to wear face masks? Seriously, Noel. Think about it. What could Boris Johnson (who is a massive vagina, by the way) possibly have to gain out of making you wear a mask? What power does he gain? What sinister plot do the government have? If you can answer any of those questions (without it sounding like something smeared in shit on a lunatic asylum wall) then I will consider your argument. Otherwise, you can jog on you miserable fucking gammon. I fucking can't stand when someone says this whole corona thing is some kind of conspiracy cooked up by the government anyway. Why would they come up with something that destroys the economy and makes so many people sick? And why worldwide? Fucking hell, put on your tinfoil hat already. Did he say it was fake and/or made up or did he say he couldn't stand people who said it was? From your last reply, I'm guessing in one podcast he said it was fake and/or made up but not in the other?
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Post by defmaybe00 on Oct 6, 2020 17:10:05 GMT -5
Another pod Even in this one he never claimed it was fake or anything, but he made it clear in the last one and said more or less the same as the post above No I meant which part of this: I fucking can't stand when someone says this whole corona thing is some kind of conspiracy cooked up by the government anyway. Why would they come up with something that destroys the economy and makes so many people sick? And why worldwide? Fucking hell, put on your tinfoil hat already. Did he say it was fake and/or made up or did he say he couldn't stand people who said it was? From your last reply, I'm guessing in one podcast he said it was fake and/or made up but not in the other? No he said it's clearly not fake and why would the government want to ruin the economy
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Post by Nyron Nosworthy on Oct 7, 2020 3:20:23 GMT -5
Why the fuck would scientists, doctors, health care professionals, researchers and anyone else LIE about face masks? What do the government have to gain out of FORCING YOU to wear face masks? Seriously, Noel. Think about it. What could Boris Johnson (who is a massive vagina, by the way) possibly have to gain out of making you wear a mask? What power does he gain? What sinister plot do the government have? If you can answer any of those questions (without it sounding like something smeared in shit on a lunatic asylum wall) then I will consider your argument. Otherwise, you can jog on you miserable fucking gammon. Because Bill Gates man. Every government and leader in the world have all conspired to wreck their own economies so Bill Gates can control us. Even Israel/Palestine and North/South Korea. Wake up and stop being a sheep!
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Post by oasisserbia on Oct 7, 2020 3:53:43 GMT -5
:-)
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Post by The Chief on Oct 7, 2020 5:56:51 GMT -5
No I meant which part of this: Did he say it was fake and/or made up or did he say he couldn't stand people who said it was? From your last reply, I'm guessing in one podcast he said it was fake and/or made up but not in the other? No he said it's clearly not fake and why would the government want to ruin the economy Oh, well that's a good thing! That means he may not have sunk to the conspiracy theorist level like Mr. Brown. He probably simply just doesn't understanding what masks are for, like many people who refuse to put it who think it's to protect themselves and not others.
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Post by marianna on Oct 7, 2020 9:15:19 GMT -5
No he said it's clearly not fake and why would the government want to ruin the economy Oh, well that's a good thing! That means he may not have sunk to the conspiracy theorist level like Mr. Brown. He probably simply just doesn't understanding what masks are for, like many people who refuse to put it who think it's to protect themselves and not others. I think this is it, pretty much. Adding to the facto that he lost the mask thread way back, when the WHO was not advocating the generalized use of masks, because: a) people were on lockdown b) there were not enough masks avalilable for health workers, let alone other people in general. Now, with people bobbing about, face masks hand hygene and social distancing (when possible) are literally the only line of defense.
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Post by tiger40 on Oct 7, 2020 12:51:34 GMT -5
The thing is though you don't need to wear one of those disposable masks as the reusable ones are just as good. Infact that's what experts and the Government are encouraging us to wear. I would never wear a disposable one and all mine are reusable ones. So there's no excuse for Noel not to wear one.
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Post by marianna on Oct 7, 2020 15:48:56 GMT -5
The thing is though you don't need to wear one of those disposable masks as the reusable ones are just as good. Infact that's what experts and the Government are encouraging us to wear. I would never wear a disposable one and all mine are reusable ones. So there's no excuse for Noel not to wear one. True, there's no excuse. No one is trying to make one up either. But you lost me regarding the reusable masks. Those are social masks, and they can and should be used by the general public. To reduce waste and to guarantee that everyone can afford one. BUT, in general those masks protect others around you and you rely on the safety that everyone is wearing a mask in order to be protected. Surgical masks (the ones you usually see health workers wearing in hospitals outside COVID areas, protect others around you and protect you to a certain extent). The most protective masks are the FFP2/N95. Usually worn inside COVID areas or when it is expected to have a prolonged contact with someone at a distance of less than 2 meters, who is not capable of wearing a mask. By this I mean, I've never seen any reliable source advocating that reusable masks are as safe as other masks. They are safe in a social context, some of them may even have virus inactivating properties, but they differ from surgical and P2 masks and are not certified or meant to achieve the same filtering capacity. Hence, the initial caution in advocating general use of masks (and type of masks) by authorities like the WHO, at a time when you couldn't even guarantee universal access to masks to medical and healthcare staff, a problem that seems to be solved by now.
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Post by girllikeabomb on Oct 8, 2020 0:56:12 GMT -5
By this I mean, I've never seen any reliable source advocating that reusable masks are as safe as other masks. They are safe in a social context, some of them may even have virus inactivating properties, but they differ from surgical and P2 masks and are not certified or meant to achieve the same filtering capacity. Hence, the initial caution in advocating general use of masks (and type of masks) by authorities like the WHO, at a time when you couldn't even guarantee universal access to masks to medical and healthcare staff, a problem that seems to be solved by now. There have been a few recent studies that found properly worn reusable masks work just about as well as surgical masks. The Duke University study (August 2020) found that nearly all cotton masks provided a significant (though not perfect) barrier to the kind of viral droplets known to spread Covid-19. In their study, the best type of reusable mask was a multi-layer poly-cotton mix (which, luckily, covers many reusable masks now sold in stores in every damned color and print.) hartfordhealthcare.org/about-us/news-press/news-detail?articleid=27691&publicId=395One reason many medical organizations did not originally support masks is because wide-spread mask use by the public to prevent an aerosol virus had never truly been studied before. Previous mask studies had only been done in hospitals and cloth masks didn't do that well there, in part because healthcare workers are exposed to lots and lots of different kinds of viruses and bacteria under very challenging conditions (splatters, close contact, fluids, all that.) Now that we understand how Covid-19 is transmitted, it appears that we're actually kinda lucky that it is fairly easily blocked if you try. Sadly, that message got all tangled up in the madness of our current society.
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Post by The Chief on Oct 8, 2020 6:58:16 GMT -5
The thing is though you don't need to wear one of those disposable masks as the reusable ones are just as good. Infact that's what experts and the Government are encouraging us to wear. I would never wear a disposable one and all mine are reusable ones. So there's no excuse for Noel not to wear one. I totally agree by the way. I'm just saying there's a huge difference between conspiracy theorist, which is how Noel has been painted in the last 2 weeks (largely because of Ian Brown to which he was compared) and someone who doesn't understand how the mask works. But after 7 months, we should all understand how a mask works by now....
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Post by tiger40 on Oct 8, 2020 13:11:03 GMT -5
The thing is though you don't need to wear one of those disposable masks as the reusable ones are just as good. Infact that's what experts and the Government are encouraging us to wear. I would never wear a disposable one and all mine are reusable ones. So there's no excuse for Noel not to wear one. True, there's no excuse. No one is trying to make one up either. But you lost me regarding the reusable masks. Those are social masks, and they can and should be used by the general public. To reduce waste and to guarantee that everyone can afford one. BUT, in general those masks protect others around you and you rely on the safety that everyone is wearing a mask in order to be protected. Surgical masks (the ones you usually see health workers wearing in hospitals outside COVID areas, protect others around you and protect you to a certain extent). The most protective masks are the FFP2/N95. Usually worn inside COVID areas or when it is expected to have a prolonged contact with someone at a distance of less than 2 meters, who is not capable of wearing a mask. By this I mean, I've never seen any reliable source advocating that reusable masks are as safe as other masks. They are safe in a social context, some of them may even have virus inactivating properties, but they differ from surgical and P2 masks and are not certified or meant to achieve the same filtering capacity. Hence, the initial caution in advocating general use of masks (and type of masks) by authorities like the WHO, at a time when you couldn't even guarantee universal access to masks to medical and healthcare staff, a problem that seems to be solved by now. Oh I'm not saying that surgical masks shouldn't be worn by health workers but the problem with these disposable masks is that other people who use them aren't disposing them properly and some people just don't care how they get rid of them. I've seen disposable masks thrown away on the ground in the street and these masks are effecting our wildlife and are now the new plastic items clogging up our seas. If people are going to wear them at least dispose them properly.
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Post by tiger40 on Oct 8, 2020 13:16:36 GMT -5
The thing is though you don't need to wear one of those disposable masks as the reusable ones are just as good. Infact that's what experts and the Government are encouraging us to wear. I would never wear a disposable one and all mine are reusable ones. So there's no excuse for Noel not to wear one. I totally agree by the way. I'm just saying there's a huge difference between conspiracy theorist, which is how Noel has been painted in the last 2 weeks (largely because of Ian Brown to which he was compared) and someone who doesn't understand how the mask works. But after 7 months, we should all understand how a mask works by now.... That's very true and I think that Noel (and Ian Brown) need to understand how wearing a mask works instead of being so selfish and stupid about it all.
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Post by marianna on Oct 8, 2020 15:09:26 GMT -5
By this I mean, I've never seen any reliable source advocating that reusable masks are as safe as other masks. They are safe in a social context, some of them may even have virus inactivating properties, but they differ from surgical and P2 masks and are not certified or meant to achieve the same filtering capacity. Hence, the initial caution in advocating general use of masks (and type of masks) by authorities like the WHO, at a time when you couldn't even guarantee universal access to masks to medical and healthcare staff, a problem that seems to be solved by now. There have been a few recent studies that found properly worn reusable masks work just about as well as surgical masks. The Duke University study (August 2020) found that nearly all cotton masks provided a significant (though not perfect) barrier to the kind of viral droplets known to spread Covid-19. In their study, the best type of reusable mask was a multi-layer poly-cotton mix (which, luckily, covers many reusable masks now sold in stores in every damned color and print.) hartfordhealthcare.org/about-us/news-press/news-detail?articleid=27691&publicId=395One reason many medical organizations did not originally support masks is because wide-spread mask use by the public to prevent an aerosol virus had never truly been studied before. Previous mask studies had only been done in hospitals and cloth masks didn't do that well there, in part because healthcare workers are exposed to lots and lots of different kinds of viruses and bacteria under very challenging conditions (splatters, close contact, fluids, all that.) Now that we understand how Covid-19 is transmitted, it appears that we're actually kinda lucky that it is fairly easily blocked if you try. Sadly, that message got all tangled up in the madness of our current society. People not wearing masks correctly is still a concern. The degree of aerossol vs droplet transmission is better understood now, but I don't think any of these factors were pivotal in the decision... Lockdown saved lives, no doubt, and it borrowed us time, to better understand the virus and to shift the industry towards PPE production. Pretty much like war industry. Thanks for the info you posted, I searched for the original paper, you can find it here: advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/36/eabd3083What I meant is that, for instance surgical masks offer some protection for the wearer, unlike cloth masks. I noticed that they only tested exhaled particle burden and not inhaled particle burden, hence, that is kind of what I'm saying. They are safe and should be worn in social contacts, but there os still not enough evidence that they are equivalent.
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Post by marianna on Oct 8, 2020 15:14:17 GMT -5
True, there's no excuse. No one is trying to make one up either. But you lost me regarding the reusable masks. Those are social masks, and they can and should be used by the general public. To reduce waste and to guarantee that everyone can afford one. BUT, in general those masks protect others around you and you rely on the safety that everyone is wearing a mask in order to be protected. Surgical masks (the ones you usually see health workers wearing in hospitals outside COVID areas, protect others around you and protect you to a certain extent). The most protective masks are the FFP2/N95. Usually worn inside COVID areas or when it is expected to have a prolonged contact with someone at a distance of less than 2 meters, who is not capable of wearing a mask. By this I mean, I've never seen any reliable source advocating that reusable masks are as safe as other masks. They are safe in a social context, some of them may even have virus inactivating properties, but they differ from surgical and P2 masks and are not certified or meant to achieve the same filtering capacity. Hence, the initial caution in advocating general use of masks (and type of masks) by authorities like the WHO, at a time when you couldn't even guarantee universal access to masks to medical and healthcare staff, a problem that seems to be solved by now. Oh I'm not saying that surgical masks shouldn't be worn by health workers but the problem with these disposable masks is that other people who use them aren't disposing them properly and some people just don't care how they get rid of them. I've seen disposable masks thrown away on the ground in the street and these masks are effecting our wildlife and are now the new plastic items clogging up our seas. If people are going to wear them at least dispose them properly. Absolutely! People throw them away with no care at all... It's a big problem. And, by the way, I also think it's far better to wear reusable social masks in everyday life that to pollute the planet even more.
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Post by girllikeabomb on Oct 8, 2020 21:27:19 GMT -5
They are safe and should be worn in social contacts, but there os still not enough evidence that they are equivalent. Point simply being the above. They don't need to be 100% equivalent to reduce the spread of this particular virus. They only need to be sufficient and all current evidence suggests they are. I am sure more studies will be completed in the near future now that there can be very large sample sizes. I live in a city where the virus was clearly slowed by public mask wearing. It's not the only answer nor any kind of perfect answer. It's one super easy, barely inconvenient tool that can make a measurable difference. The rest is noise unless you are a healthcare worker (and no one is suggesting they should wear cloth masks.)
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Post by marianna on Oct 9, 2020 1:13:27 GMT -5
They are safe and should be worn in social contacts, but there os still not enough evidence that they are equivalent. Point simply being the above. They don't need to be 100% equivalent to reduce the spread of this particular virus. They only need to be sufficient and all current evidence suggests they are. I am sure more studies will be completed in the near future now that there can be very large sample sizes. I live in a city where the virus was clearly slowed by public mask wearing. It's not the only answer nor any kind of perfect answer. It's one super easy, barely inconvenient tool that can make a measurable difference. The rest is noise unless you are a healthcare worker (and no one is suggesting they should wear cloth masks.) I agree, I'm not, in any way saying cloth masks shouldn't be worn. In fact, I think that is the best option for social contacts. Like I said, it't literally the only option, because you can't keep people on lockdown forever. My only point is the fact that no One can guarantee they are equivalent. I've had several reports of people refusing to change their social mask for a surgical one when they were enter a hospital, because "they are the same". It may seem like it's just noise, but it doesn't hurt to be careful.
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Post by mimmihopps on Oct 9, 2020 2:30:37 GMT -5
At this stage as the number of effected people is increasing in Europe every day, it's not debatable anymore whether you wear a face mask or not. I saw on the news last night that someone in Italy said "We wear one even if it saves only one single person from dying" and that's the simple explanation. And it's not such a big issue to wear it in a shop/public transport/city hall/museums etc. Just do it for sake for each other and I call it solidarity. It's a waste of time to keeping debating to wear it or not to wear it. Just do it FFS and don't be a d**k.
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Post by welshylad on Oct 9, 2020 2:44:20 GMT -5
It's a waste of time to keeping debating to wear it or not to wear it. Just do it FFS and don't be a d**k. You should be a politician! Sort the world out, tell it like it is
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Post by tiger40 on Oct 9, 2020 13:19:27 GMT -5
Oh I'm not saying that surgical masks shouldn't be worn by health workers but the problem with these disposable masks is that other people who use them aren't disposing them properly and some people just don't care how they get rid of them. I've seen disposable masks thrown away on the ground in the street and these masks are effecting our wildlife and are now the new plastic items clogging up our seas. If people are going to wear them at least dispose them properly. Absolutely! People throw them away with no care at all... It's a big problem. And, by the way, I also think it's far better to wear reusable social masks in everyday life that to pollute the planet even more. Yeah, it is a big problem how people throw away their plastic masks with no care at all. And, plastics in the ocean also effects humans because it gets into our food chain. This is why I don't understand some people who think it's ok just to throw away their masks without duty care.
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