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Post by wallofass on Dec 16, 2017 12:39:28 GMT -5
The Last Jedi to me was... sloppy, to say the least. Great moments sprinkled throughout an overly long film. A bit underwhelming for me on first watch. As of right now, I prefer the Force Awakens for its quick pace and more appropriate humor. Adam Driver as Kylo is a beast of a performance, he might be in my top 3 favorite SW characters: Han Solo, Vader, Kylo Ren. You're very right. It was actually the biggest disappointment i've had for a film in years. What actually made it such a dissapointment was going into the film hearing NOTHING but 10/10 reviews. I'm now convinced Disney fucking own everything and everyone and will basically be in charge of everything we consume soon. No fucking way every reviewer could give that film such flawless reviews. Luke Skywalker's character is ruined (despite Mark Hamill being superb) because he basically just gives up. The whole thing has become about how much money Disney can make. And WHY just shit on the fans theories? Oh lets let them come up with theories for who Snoke is, who Rey's parents are and then do nothing with either. Fans invest so much time and money into the franchise and they actually look forward to these films to get the answers to these things. The plot is actually, bunch of rebels keep running and have the advantage of light speed. Light speed is actually now trackable. So a huge fleet of First Order take an embarrassing amount of time to go and get the resistance and then in the end get them into a big bunker and still fail and now theres like 8 resistance left. What a plot. And how many times we gonna have to watch a grease ball in a little x fighter take on thousands and win?
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Post by Lennon2217 on Dec 16, 2017 12:56:01 GMT -5
The Last Jedi to me was... sloppy, to say the least. Great moments sprinkled throughout an overly long film. A bit underwhelming for me on first watch. As of right now, I prefer the Force Awakens for its quick pace and more appropriate humor. Adam Driver as Kylo is a beast of a performance, he might be in my top 3 favorite SW characters: Han Solo, Vader, Kylo Ren. You're very right. It was actually the biggest disappointment i've had for a film in years. What actually made it such a dissapointment was going into the film hearing NOTHING but 10/10 reviews. I'm now convinced Disney fucking own everything and everyone and will basically be in charge of everything we consume soon. No fucking way every reviewer could give that film such flawless reviews. Luke Skywalker's character is ruined (despite Mark Hamill being superb) because he basically just gives up. The whole thing has become about how much money Disney can make. And WHY just shit on the fans theories? Oh lets let them come up with theories for who Snoke is, who Rey's parents are and then do nothing with either. Fans invest so much time and money into the franchise and they actually look forward to these films to get the answers to these things. The plot is actually, bunch of rebels keep running and have the advantage of light speed. Light speed is actually now trackable. So a huge fleet of First Order take an embarrassing amount of time to go and get the resistance and then in the end get them into a big bunker and still fail and now theres like 8 resistance left. What a plot. And how many times we gonna have to watch a grease ball in a little x fighter take on thousands and win? You nailed it with the Luke stuff. My boyhood idol who was always ready to lend a hand and join the fight in his 3 movies basically doesn’t care anymore and lives in shame. That’s not my Luke. Probably not many of yours either. Han was the guy ready to run away and hide. Not Luke Skywalker. The directions they took his character seemed out of line and were pushed too far from what we previously knew of the character.
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Post by wallofass on Dec 16, 2017 13:34:56 GMT -5
You're very right. It was actually the biggest disappointment i've had for a film in years. What actually made it such a dissapointment was going into the film hearing NOTHING but 10/10 reviews. I'm now convinced Disney fucking own everything and everyone and will basically be in charge of everything we consume soon. No fucking way every reviewer could give that film such flawless reviews. Luke Skywalker's character is ruined (despite Mark Hamill being superb) because he basically just gives up. The whole thing has become about how much money Disney can make. And WHY just shit on the fans theories? Oh lets let them come up with theories for who Snoke is, who Rey's parents are and then do nothing with either. Fans invest so much time and money into the franchise and they actually look forward to these films to get the answers to these things. The plot is actually, bunch of rebels keep running and have the advantage of light speed. Light speed is actually now trackable. So a huge fleet of First Order take an embarrassing amount of time to go and get the resistance and then in the end get them into a big bunker and still fail and now theres like 8 resistance left. What a plot. And how many times we gonna have to watch a grease ball in a little x fighter take on thousands and win? You nailed it with the Luke stuff. My boyhood idol who was always ready to lend a hand and join the fight in his 3 movies basically doesn’t care anymore and lives in shame. That’s not my Luke. Probably not many of yours either. Han was the guy ready to run away and hide. Not Luke Skywalker. The directions they took his character seemed out of line and were pushed too far from what we previously knew of the character. Even Mark Hamill himself said it. He even went to them with ideas of his own because he was that against it. You know, if he had turned down the chance to come back off the back of that script they'd have been outrage but i wouldnt have blamed him in the slightest. The original trilogy was surrounded in darkness, and Luke was the light. In this there isnt even a legitimate reason for his depression. What he did could have been construed as trying to kill Kylo, so go and fucking hunt him down. I seen someone say if you take away the characters from the original then you're left with a very Disney style film. That's pretty much spot on. I'm actually more worried about the review situation. How can a film get so much unwavering praise from critics and such disdain from fans? A worry time ahead for our media consumption on the whole.
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Post by mossy on Dec 16, 2017 15:07:25 GMT -5
The best thing is we don't have to wait for 3 years between movies are they making more spin offs apart from the Solo one? Yes, yes they are. Hot rumor is an Obi-Wan film set between III and IV. Would be released in 2020. McGregor back in play. It's gonna be an obi-wan trilogy huh? X
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Post by Lennon2217 on Dec 16, 2017 15:22:31 GMT -5
You nailed it with the Luke stuff. My boyhood idol who was always ready to lend a hand and join the fight in his 3 movies basically doesn’t care anymore and lives in shame. That’s not my Luke. Probably not many of yours either. Han was the guy ready to run away and hide. Not Luke Skywalker. The directions they took his character seemed out of line and were pushed too far from what we previously knew of the character. Even Mark Hamill himself said it. He even went to them with ideas of his own because he was that against it. You know, if he had turned down the chance to come back off the back of that script they'd have been outrage but i wouldnt have blamed him in the slightest. The original trilogy was surrounded in darkness, and Luke was the light. In this there isnt even a legitimate reason for his depression. What he did could have been construed as trying to kill Kylo, so go and fucking hunt him down. I seen someone say if you take away the characters from the original then you're left with a very Disney style film. That's pretty much spot on. I'm actually more worried about the review situation. How can a film get so much unwavering praise from critics and such disdain from fans? A worry time ahead for our media consumption on the whole. I need to see it a second time. The flashbacks in Ben's hut were weird for me. So Luke was going to kill Ben Solo in his sleep (too Anakin for me) but had regrets on taking his lightsaber out but at the same time realized Ben had fully gone over to the dark side and then Ben woke up in shock. So what was the big plan here? What is Luke's regret here? Does he regret taking his blade out even though he knows he should kill Ben Solo or does he regret not actually going 100% in and killing Ben? despite it being the right thing to do at the time? It resulted in billions of deaths.
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Post by Frank Lee Vulgar on Dec 16, 2017 15:41:07 GMT -5
I feel like a lot of people went into the movie with somewhat clear expectations - from what I've read a lot of fans expected Luke to wreak havoc on the First Order - and the movie didn't live up to those. That's a problem because you can't please everybody who wants 8 to do new stuff after the de facto remake 7 was AND the fans from the 1980s hyped to see their hero again.
And really, the fault for that lies with J J Abrams. Why would Luke hide out in the middle of nowhere and then come back when called right away? You also can't expect Luke to behave the way he did in Return of the Jedi because that's about 30 years earlier in universe.
The movie isn't generally hated by fans. There's a big divide but a good chunk of people love it, with very few in between. Personally I can't understand the hate really, you might disagree with some of the choices made by the director but that doesn't make it a bad movie.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Dec 16, 2017 16:02:16 GMT -5
I feel like a lot of people went into the movie with somewhat clear expectations - from what I've read a lot of fans expected Luke to wreak havoc on the First Order - and the movie didn't live up to those. That's a problem because you can't please everybody who wants 8 to do new stuff after the de facto remake 7 was AND the fans from the 1980s hyped to see their hero again. And really, the fault for that lies with J J Abrams. Why would Luke hide out in the middle of nowhere and then come back when called right away? You also can't expect Luke to behave the way he did in Return of the Jedi because that's about 30 years earlier in universe.The movie isn't generally hated by fans. There's a big divide but a good chunk of people love it, with very few in between. Personally I can't understand the hate really, you might disagree with some of the choices made by the director but that doesn't make it a bad movie. Why not? Han was pretty much the same guy in 7 (same for Leia in 7 and 8). Always sarcastic, always ready to go the other way because its easier. It was always Luke who kept him on the straight and narrow. As a child of the 80s, Luke was my guy. I didn't expect him to be a one man wrecking crew but I wanted Luke to be more in line with the OT. I don't even care that he died but died like that? Alone after a glorious reveal? Nobody knows he died but Rey and Leia. He deserved a better send off or just die Heroically in 9.
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Post by mossy on Dec 16, 2017 16:21:18 GMT -5
Even Mark Hamill himself said it. He even went to them with ideas of his own because he was that against it. You know, if he had turned down the chance to come back off the back of that script they'd have been outrage but i wouldnt have blamed him in the slightest. The original trilogy was surrounded in darkness, and Luke was the light. In this there isnt even a legitimate reason for his depression. What he did could have been construed as trying to kill Kylo, so go and fucking hunt him down. I seen someone say if you take away the characters from the original then you're left with a very Disney style film. That's pretty much spot on. I'm actually more worried about the review situation. How can a film get so much unwavering praise from critics and such disdain from fans? A worry time ahead for our media consumption on the whole. I need to see it a second time. The flashbacks in Ben's hut were weird for me. So Luke was going to kill Ben Solo in his sleep (too Anakin for me) but had regrets on taking his lightsaber out but at the same time realized Ben had fully gone over to the dark side and then Ben woke up in shock. So what was the big plan here? What is Luke's regret here? Does he regret taking his blade out even though he knows he should kill Ben Solo or does he regret not actually going 100% in and killing Ben? despite it being the right thing to do at the time? It resulted in billions of deaths. My take was he regretted considering killing Kylo at all and thought he should have been able to prevent him from going to the dark side. Which is why later, on the salt planet, he apologised to Kylo for failing him as a master. X
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Post by Lennon2217 on Dec 16, 2017 16:24:39 GMT -5
I need to see it a second time. The flashbacks in Ben's hut were weird for me. So Luke was going to kill Ben Solo in his sleep (too Anakin for me) but had regrets on taking his lightsaber out but at the same time realized Ben had fully gone over to the dark side and then Ben woke up in shock. So what was the big plan here? What is Luke's regret here? Does he regret taking his blade out even though he knows he should kill Ben Solo or does he regret not actually going 100% in and killing Ben? despite it being the right thing to do at the time? It resulted in billions of deaths. My take was he regretted considering killing Kylo at all and thought he should have been able to prevent him from going to the dark side. Which is why later, on the salt planet, he apologised to Kylo for failing him as a master. X Luke also says that when he visited Ben's hut with saber out, he realizes Ben was fully gone anyway and not coming back. So at that point I'm not sure what the point of all that was? So Luke should or shouldn't have killed Ben? The hesitation allowed Ben to get the upper hand, destroy the temple, kill his followers and join the first order. All because Luke didn't kill him.
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Post by mossy on Dec 16, 2017 16:29:49 GMT -5
My take was he regretted considering killing Kylo at all and thought he should have been able to prevent him from going to the dark side. Which is why later, on the salt planet, he apologised to Kylo for failing him as a master. X Luke also says that when he visited Ben's hut with saber out, he realizes Ben was fully gone anyway and not coming back. So at that point I'm not sure what the point of all that was? So Luke should or shouldn't have killed Ben? The hesitation allowed Ben to get the upper hand, destroy the temple, kill his followers and join the first order. All because Luke didn't kill him. By this point Luke wasn't light or dark side. He'd turned to the pink side. When he crept into Ben's bedchamber late that night, he had a massive weapon but it wasn't a light sabre... Which is why Ben is so messed up now... (Or Luke regretted not being smart enough to never have allowed Ben's dark side leanings to get so bad that he even needed to be sneaking about considering killing the child in the night... he regretted failing Ben and not stopping his turning earlier...) X
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Post by Lennon2217 on Dec 16, 2017 16:37:53 GMT -5
Luke also says that when he visited Ben's hut with saber out, he realizes Ben was fully gone anyway and not coming back. So at that point I'm not sure what the point of all that was? So Luke should or shouldn't have killed Ben? The hesitation allowed Ben to get the upper hand, destroy the temple, kill his followers and join the first order. All because Luke didn't kill him. By this point Luke wasn't light or dark side. He'd turned to the pink side. When he crept into Ben's bedchamber late that night, a massive light sabre wasn't really the weapon he had drawn. Which is why Ben is so messed up now... (Or Luke regretted not being smart enough to never have allowed Ben's dark side leanings to get so bad that he even needed to be sneaking about considering killing the child in the night... he regretted failing Ben and not stopping his turning earlier...) X The Luke I know doesn’t run and hide. He blew up the Death Star. Saved Han Solo. Defeated the Emperor. Turned Anakin back. This was a great man.
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Post by mossy on Dec 16, 2017 16:51:24 GMT -5
By this point Luke wasn't light or dark side. He'd turned to the pink side. When he crept into Ben's bedchamber late that night, a massive light sabre wasn't really the weapon he had drawn. Which is why Ben is so messed up now... (Or Luke regretted not being smart enough to never have allowed Ben's dark side leanings to get so bad that he even needed to be sneaking about considering killing the child in the night... he regretted failing Ben and not stopping his turning earlier...) X The Luke I know doesn’t run and hide. He blew up the Death Star. Saved Han Solo. Defeated the Emperor. Turned Anakin back. This was a great man. Hmm is this a bad time to point out we're talking about a franchise aimed at kids here, owned by Disney, about space wizards with laser swords... X
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Post by Lennon2217 on Dec 16, 2017 17:06:08 GMT -5
The Luke I know doesn’t run and hide. He blew up the Death Star. Saved Han Solo. Defeated the Emperor. Turned Anakin back. This was a great man. Hmm is this a bad time to point out we're talking about a franchise aimed at kids here, owned by Disney, about space wizards with laser swords... X
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Post by Frank Lee Vulgar on Dec 16, 2017 17:33:51 GMT -5
The Luke I know doesn’t run and hide. He blew up the Death Star. Saved Han Solo. Defeated the Emperor. Turned Anakin back. This was a great man. Good thing Episode VIII has a thing or two to say about hero worship, and about running towards danger mindlessly. The young Ben thing is simple enough for me - the thought of killing him crossed Luke's mind for a second until he realized that he was about to kill a sleeping child. He had failed to detect the darkness inside him when there was still time to adress it, and with that moment actively pushed him over to the dark side. Should he have gone for Kylo right away after that flashback scene? Maybe. But why would you expect him to do that now, years later, when we have known since TFA that he went into hiding instead of confronting Kylo? Why should Rey turning up (a person he doesn't know at all) change anything?
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Post by Lennon2217 on Dec 16, 2017 17:55:12 GMT -5
The Luke I know doesn’t run and hide. He blew up the Death Star. Saved Han Solo. Defeated the Emperor. Turned Anakin back. This was a great man. Good thing Episode VIII has a thing or two to say about hero worship, and about running towards danger mindlessly. The young Ben thing is simple enough for me - the thought of killing him crossed Luke's mind for a second until he realized that he was about to kill a sleeping child. He had failed to detect the darkness inside him when there was still time to adress it, and with that moment actively pushed him over to the dark side. Should he have gone for Kylo right away after that flashback scene? Maybe. But why would you expect him to do that now, years later, when we have known since TFA that he went into hiding instead of confronting Kylo? Why should Rey turning up (a person he doesn't know at all) change anything? I don’t expect him to do it now. But walking away, allowing the darkness to spread, threatening the republic and his family was not good. It is basically erasing all his hard work from previous. Not very much in his character. His walking away created even more chaos and death. I’m still processing this whole transitional Luke period. It’s not the stuff I wanted out of the character. Snoke slowly converting Ben over the years was enough for me. Luke could have been caught off guard about the uprising and his ability to detect it but never did I want him to go Anakin style, sneak in at dark and kill a teenager. His own nephew. Idk. For me I didn’t want that. Luke was always the 180 Of Vader.
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Post by jordan71421 on Dec 16, 2017 18:03:51 GMT -5
I honestly did not have any issues with what actually happened in the film. I have issues with the way Rian Johnson told this story. He was the sole writer and he just did not balance all of the plots going on well at all. It was WAY too long and felt self indulgent. There's a good movie in there but it should have been much shorter. My biggest issues are the Finn & Rose detour and the mind-numbing scenes with the Resistance running away from the First Order. God I wish they would have done ANYTHING but that. There are scenes in this movie that are some of my favorites (nearly everything with Kylo, Luke and Rey, the Yoda Scene, the Throne Room scene, etc.) but the stuff in between really deflated my enthusiasm as I was watching. Rian was not the right choice for this movie and I am happy JJ Abrams is coming back to hopefully end this trilogy on a high note.
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Post by Frank Lee Vulgar on Dec 16, 2017 18:15:21 GMT -5
I don’t expect him to do it now. But walking away, allowing the darkness to spread, threatening the republic and his family was not good. It is basically erasing all his hard work from previous. Not very much in his character. His walking away created even more chaos and death. I’m still processing this whole transitional Luke period. It’s not the stuff I wanted out of the character. But most of that is old news. Luke losing Ben to Snoke, then running away instead of fighting is the story we've heard in Force Awakens, and the rest comes down to personal expectations. They kept those up for way longer than needed, for sure. Really wish they'd figured out a way to keep the threat of the First Order up for real - the "until we run out of fuel we are completely untouchable" thing was spelled out plot armor, and it kept many characters from actually doing anything.
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Post by wallofass on Dec 16, 2017 18:40:27 GMT -5
I honestly did not have any issues with what actually happened in the film. I have issues with the way Rian Johnson told this story. He was the sole writer and he just did not balance all of the plots going on well at all. It was WAY too long and felt self indulgent. There's a good movie in there but it should have been much shorter. My biggest issues are the Finn & Rose detour and the mind-numbing scenes with the Resistance running away from the First Order. God I wish they would have done ANYTHING but that. There are scenes in this movie that are some of my favorites (nearly everything with Kylo, Luke and Rey, the Yoda Scene, the Throne Room scene, etc.) but the stuff in between really deflated my enthusiasm as I was watching. Rian was not the right choice for this movie and I am happy JJ Abrams is coming back to hopefully end this trilogy on a high note. There is also this. They literally got a director in for 2 films who's now seemingly left almost nowhere to go with the 3rd film and then jumped ship realising this. Before this film there were so many fan theories to who snoke will be, who rey comes from, why theres a link between rey and kylo, how will luke return? What is there to look forward to now? How will the little group of resistance eventually win and will Kylo turn good or not before meeting his demise either way. In fact im guessing he will die saving everyone and there will be a huge resistance come from nowhere just as they think theres no hope left.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Dec 16, 2017 18:53:25 GMT -5
I honestly did not have any issues with what actually happened in the film. I have issues with the way Rian Johnson told this story. He was the sole writer and he just did not balance all of the plots going on well at all. It was WAY too long and felt self indulgent. There's a good movie in there but it should have been much shorter. My biggest issues are the Finn & Rose detour and the mind-numbing scenes with the Resistance running away from the First Order. God I wish they would have done ANYTHING but that. There are scenes in this movie that are some of my favorites (nearly everything with Kylo, Luke and Rey, the Yoda Scene, the Throne Room scene, etc.) but the stuff in between really deflated my enthusiasm as I was watching. Rian was not the right choice for this movie and I am happy JJ Abrams is coming back to hopefully end this trilogy on a high note. There is also this. They literally got a director in for 2 films who's now seemingly left almost nowhere to go with the 3rd film and then jumped ship realising this. Before this film there were so many fan theories to who snoke will be, who rey comes from, why theres a link between rey and kylo, how will luke return? What is there to look forward to now? How will the little group of resistance eventually win and will Kylo turn good or not before meeting his demise either way. In fact im guessing he will die saving everyone and there will be a huge resistance come from nowhere just as they think theres no hope left. They sent out the distress beacon. Help will come in 9 from the outer rim like Leia said plus from within. The great return of Lando is upon us.
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Post by wallofass on Dec 16, 2017 18:57:43 GMT -5
There is also this. They literally got a director in for 2 films who's now seemingly left almost nowhere to go with the 3rd film and then jumped ship realising this. Before this film there were so many fan theories to who snoke will be, who rey comes from, why theres a link between rey and kylo, how will luke return? What is there to look forward to now? How will the little group of resistance eventually win and will Kylo turn good or not before meeting his demise either way. In fact im guessing he will die saving everyone and there will be a huge resistance come from nowhere just as they think theres no hope left. They sent out the distress beacon. Help will come in 9 from the outer rim like Leia said plus from within. The great return of Lando is upon us. The outer rim sounds dirty.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Dec 16, 2017 19:24:56 GMT -5
I don’t expect him to do it now. But walking away, allowing the darkness to spread, threatening the republic and his family was not good. It is basically erasing all his hard work from previous. Not very much in his character. His walking away created even more chaos and death. I’m still processing this whole transitional Luke period. It’s not the stuff I wanted out of the character. But most of that is old news. Luke losing Ben to Snoke, then running away instead of fighting is the story we've heard in Force Awakens, and the rest comes down to personal expectations. They kept those up for way longer than needed, for sure. Really wish they'd figured out a way to keep the threat of the First Order up for real - the "until we run out of fuel we are completely untouchable" thing was spelled out plot armor, and it kept many characters from actually doing anything. For me making Luke the main factor in this galactic mess was something I wish didn’t occur. We already saw this thing in the prequels. Luke in the OT was the new hope and break from the same old mistakes. A new path. If you wanna blame someone blame the New Republic. They de-centralized the government and scaled back the military throughout the galaxy letting planets run themselves. This led directly to the rise of Snoke and first order. This info was stated in supporting novels and Force Awakens encyclopedia by Pablo Hidalgo lead Lucasfilm storywriter. Basically the keeper of Star Wars canon.
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Post by matt on Dec 18, 2017 11:36:52 GMT -5
Tragic.
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Post by rorymcbride on Dec 18, 2017 12:05:24 GMT -5
Absolute dog eggs. I'm glad I watched a dodgy cam and didn't pay any of my hard earned to suffer through this balls.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Dec 18, 2017 12:36:27 GMT -5
I’ve only seen it once, dying to go back. My stance is changing as I get more comfortable with some of the more drastic stuff.
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Post by morning_rain on Dec 20, 2017 12:03:54 GMT -5
I enjoyed it. Not as much as TFA but I think this one will be better regarded with time whereas TFA is not that great after the initial hype.
I can't understand how some people think it was boring, I didn't check the time on my phone a single time and would've gladly watched another hour of film.
But the let down for me was the casino part, not the plot but the whole set, I thought it was poorly designed. A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away they had casinos that looked exactly the same as the ones we have today.
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