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Post by RocketMan on May 14, 2019 10:01:57 GMT -5
BUT they didnt sell it enough on the show. Two episodes ago she was fighting the WW to rescue the world and now she burns down an entire City and thousands of innocent civilians because?! I dont get it in the context of the show. Thats a major fuck up. GOT spend basically two episodes to make us believe that she snapped. That's the point though, she is kind of schizophrenic. Sometimes she makes sacrifices for the sake of what is right(although one could say that maybe all that was just great political strategy from her part), but sometimes she lets her vengefulness tendencies speak instead. You could say that what happened last episode was over the top, but I don't think she did a complete 180 turn, the hints have all been there. Only difference to what one might have expected is that this time she aimed her fury at innocent people as opposed to slavers and tyrants, and I can get why people find that as jumping the shark, but I think it can make sense given her realisation(my speculation, but I think it could be true) that in the end her dream was worth nothing. She rears that she will never be loved and respected, hence the "fuck everything" mentality kicking in to a violent extreme. i just dont buy it in that short period of time. lets say jon had sex with her the night before she attacked KL, she might not have burnt the city. and as stupid as it sounds but thats the kind of quality of writing we got in this season. her dragon died out of pure stupidity, messandei was captured by pure stupidity, their whole plan to conquer KL was stupid. and most of these choices were made to give dany a reason to flip the switch. the overall execution was bad. and thats inexcusable when there was no need to rush through the story.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on May 14, 2019 10:07:43 GMT -5
Honestly, I am surprised so many can't jump on board with Dany doing this. She's been psychotic since season 2 when she was threatening people that she would lay waste to entire cities. And she has done a many great and terrible things since. Usually using violence to accomplish her goals.
And yeah, she's certainly doing this out of fear. She knows they will abandon her once Jon's lineage gets out. And so she's making everybody know who's boss. She destroys the capital and hundreds of thousands along with it. Word will get around as a result and nobody will dare defy her or else meet the same fate.
My only complaint with all of this is I feel we should have gotten full on mad Dany (I mean she's ALWAYS been mad) for an entire season or at least half of one. Instead, we get 2 episodes to see and deal with her. She deserved more than 2 episodes to be dealt with.
So you think it was a calculated decision when she went mad with the dragon? Not sure how I would feel iF that would be the case. Don't think she 'went' mad. She's been this way from the start.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on May 14, 2019 10:08:42 GMT -5
So one of Brans visions was Dany sacking the city, or about to.
Which, A) Confirms that Bran does see the future. B) Makes it curious how the visions of the future occur during visions of Dany's father saying, "Burn them all!".
Obliviously, they can't do this in the show, they have no time. But I do wonder if Bran or the previous 3ER has something to do with that? Maybe the previous 3ER corrupted Aerys in the same way Bran corrupted Hodor? And when Aery's was shouting burn them all, it's because he was seeing what his daughter would eventually do to KL?
It also means Bran knows what's going to happen in the end.
I like that Bran theory, but do we really know that he can see whatever he wants to see of the future? He was given a snippet of the future, is there any proof that he has unlimited access to everything that is going to happen? Not sure. And I doubt we will know.
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Post by RocketMan on May 14, 2019 10:36:32 GMT -5
I like that Bran theory, but do we really know that he can see whatever he wants to see of the future? He was given a snippet of the future, is there any proof that he has unlimited access to everything that is going to happen? Not sure. And I doubt we will know. and nobody seems to care. all of his powers for nothing
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Post by funhouse on May 14, 2019 10:59:31 GMT -5
That's the point though, she is kind of schizophrenic. Sometimes she makes sacrifices for the sake of what is right(although one could say that maybe all that was just great political strategy from her part), but sometimes she lets her vengefulness tendencies speak instead. You could say that what happened last episode was over the top, but I don't think she did a complete 180 turn, the hints have all been there. Only difference to what one might have expected is that this time she aimed her fury at innocent people as opposed to slavers and tyrants, and I can get why people find that as jumping the shark, but I think it can make sense given her realisation(my speculation, but I think it could be true) that in the end her dream was worth nothing. She rears that she will never be loved and respected, hence the "fuck everything" mentality kicking in to a violent extreme. i just dont buy it in that short period of time. lets say jon had sex with her the night before she attacked KL, she might not have burnt the city. and as stupid as it sounds but thats the kind of quality of writing we got in this season. her dragon died out of pure stupidity, messandei was captured by pure stupidity, their whole plan to conquer KL was stupid. and most of these choices were made to give dany a reason to flip the switch. the overall execution was bad. and thats inexcusable when there was no need to rush through the story. But when you think of hear fear and paranoia of not being queen(people would probably demand to have Jon instead, and her loving him would probably make that situation even worse), which is her destiny and all that, I think that flip of the switch could make sense. Can't disagree about the rest though. My justification for the whole Danaerys thing is kind of depending on that bad writing. If Jon wouldn't be a fucking moron and tell her about his true identity she wouldn't be paranoid, and why are they even in love to begin with? Because they're attractive that's why. Not much chemistry at all, but at least the fans get what they want.
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Post by funhouse on May 14, 2019 11:01:41 GMT -5
So you think it was a calculated decision when she went mad with the dragon? Not sure how I would feel iF that would be the case. Don't think she 'went' mad. She's been this way from the start. Not towards people she viewed as innocent though. That is actually quite a difference to before when she took out her vengeance on slavers and tyrants.
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Post by theyknowwhatimean on May 14, 2019 11:52:16 GMT -5
I enjoyed that episode, best of the series. I've no problem with the Dany goes loco story. Her motivation has always been to avenge the destruction of her families dynasty in westeros and retake the iron throne. She has also always had a taste for violence against anyone that stood in her way. The way I see it she previously thought that if she took out Cersei the people would love her as their saviour and recognise her as the rightful ruler. Suddenly that has been overturned by Jons superior claim and the realisation that the people love him far more than they ever would her. The common people went from her best route to the throne to a major obstacle. So, fuck them basically. Have people been complaining about that? It makes complete sense to me as well. I've always thought she was a bit bonkers. To be honest, I've never really understood why it is we're supposed to be rooting for her.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on May 14, 2019 12:30:21 GMT -5
Don't think she 'went' mad. She's been this way from the start. Not towards people she viewed as innocent though. That is actually quite a difference to before when she took out her vengeance on slavers and tyrants. Innocence is a matter of perspective. She has killed many innocents prior to the city destruction. Especially when she came to rule Meereen. And even before that, she had threatened a couple of times to massacre entire cities.
I believable there was even a scene during this period in Meereen where it was pointed out to her that she had slaughtered innocent people who had stood against slavery. And she didn't give a single fuck. No regret. No empathy. No remorse of any sort. But even if that weren't the case, it still fits. Because where she may have lacked in action, she made up for in words. She always said she would conquer by fire and blood and that she would torch cities. Those aren't the words of someone with a balanced mind. She's always been off. Imagine if Jon Snow had said that about anybody. We'd view him differently. It's the way they gave us Dany's perspective that made it seem justified and right and that was easy to miss, because she was massacring bad people.
Can't wait to rewatch it all knowing where she ends up. It will be very fun to see the other side of the perspective and reevaluate her decisions and all that.
I have to wonder if her aiding the northern cause against the dead was because she wanted to save the people of Westeros or if it was because she knew that if she didn't stop the NK and his army of the dead, that she would have no one to rule over and her dream of power would never come true. I think it's been the latter. Same with freeing slaves. Calculated moves to get her into a position of power to build her armies and bring her closer to her goal.
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Post by funhouse on May 14, 2019 13:26:17 GMT -5
Not towards people she viewed as innocent though. That is actually quite a difference to before when she took out her vengeance on slavers and tyrants. Innocence is a matter of perspective. She has killed many innocents prior to the city destruction. Especially when she came to rule Meereen. And even before that, she had threatened a couple of times to massacre entire cities.
I believable there was even a scene during this period in Meereen where it was pointed out to her that she had slaughtered innocent people who had stood against slavery. And she didn't give a single fuck. No regret. No empathy. No remorse of any sort. But even if that weren't the case, it still fits. Because where she may have lacked in action, she made up for in words. She always said she would conquer by fire and blood and that she would torch cities. Those aren't the words of someone with a balanced mind. She's always been off. Imagine if Jon Snow had said that about anybody. We'd view him differently. It's the way they gave us Dany's perspective that made it seem justified and right and that was easy to miss, because she was massacring bad people.
Can't wait to rewatch it all knowing where she ends up. It will be very fun to see the other side of the perspective and reevaluate her decisions and all that.
I have to wonder if her aiding the northern cause against the dead was because she wanted to save the people of Westeros or if it was because she knew that if she didn't stop the NK and his army of the dead, that she would have no one to rule over and her dream of power would never come true. I think it's been the latter. Same with freeing slaves. Calculated moves to get her into a position of power to build her armies and bring her closer to her goal.
She didn't view them as innocents though, that's my point. And those "innocent" slavers she didn't care about executing because they were slavers. Whether you think she was right or not, she didn't view "regular people" the same way. I'd say that the last paragraph seems spot on now looking back. When she gave those speeches about "breaking the wheel" my brain went "hell yeah!", but did I really believe her? Not fully. And I wondered if we were all supposed to believe her to be this Westerosi Bernie Sanders-type savior, because there was obviously something that was always a bit off with her. Maybe that didn't mean that she was destined to burn the city to the ground, but I'm just really glad that we didn't end up with her being the great beloved queen, it would have been way too conventional.
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Post by sgtpeppr on May 14, 2019 14:01:22 GMT -5
like others have said, it all felt too rushed. she shouldve been showing clearer signs of turning since the start of the season. and why were the northern soldiers all of a sudden into raping women and killing children?!? the hound vs the mountain was kinda boring and predictable. also, for one of the biggest villians in the show, cersei's death was underwhelming. jaime shouldve of either come good and kill her or die to help her escape so she could recieve a death with more comeuppance when they catch her.
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Post by thomaslivesforever on May 14, 2019 15:17:02 GMT -5
Well acted, beautifully shot, incredibly rushed. Lot of footage of Cercei standing or Arya running(her viewing of the horror felt like being beaten over the the head with a hint for the finale)left it hugely unfocussed never spending enough time with any one person.
And I'm sorry but after the loss of a dragon last week this one just turns up and rips shit up? Felt clunky and didn't buy it.
Its almost a shame this battle and the one with the Night King weren't the other way around, that episode was tense, taut and claustrophobic this had none of those things.
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Post by RocketMan on May 15, 2019 14:27:00 GMT -5
Well acted, beautifully shot, incredibly rushed. Lot of footage of Cercei standing or Arya running(her viewing of the horror felt like being beaten over the the head with a hint for the finale)left it hugely unfocussed never spending enough time with any one person. And I'm sorry but after the loss of a dragon last week this one just turns up and rips shit up? Felt clunky and didn't buy it. Its almost a shame this battle and the one with the Night King weren't the other way around, that episode was tense, taut and claustrophobic this had none of those things. As soon as you start thinking about whats actually happening this season everything falls apart. Take Jaime for example, the ultimate redemption story, one of the best parts of the show and they ruined his whole arc within a couple of Episodes. From turning on cersei to help humanity and for the first time experiencing true love and affection for another Person to 'fuck this i still love cersei, thats who i am'. His story feels useless now. This whole season damaged the rewatch value of the show.
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Post by Let It 🩸 on May 17, 2019 12:58:55 GMT -5
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Post by oasismashups on May 18, 2019 19:47:08 GMT -5
Well acted, beautifully shot, incredibly rushed. Lot of footage of Cercei standing or Arya running(her viewing of the horror felt like being beaten over the the head with a hint for the finale)left it hugely unfocussed never spending enough time with any one person. And I'm sorry but after the loss of a dragon last week this one just turns up and rips shit up? Felt clunky and didn't buy it. Its almost a shame this battle and the one with the Night King weren't the other way around, that episode was tense, taut and claustrophobic this had none of those things. As soon as you start thinking about whats actually happening this season everything falls apart. Take Jaime for example, the ultimate redemption story, one of the best parts of the show and they ruined his whole arc within a couple of Episodes. From turning on cersei to help humanity and for the first time experiencing true love and affection for another Person to 'fuck this i still love cersei, thats who i am'. His story feels useless now. This whole season damaged the rewatch value of the show. Jaime even says he never cared about the people of Kings Landing... Why would he go and fight in the North then? And this happens in the very next episode! Terrible writing. Is it just me or the hype/anticipation for the finale is not what it should be?
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Post by RocketMan on May 19, 2019 7:03:25 GMT -5
As soon as you start thinking about whats actually happening this season everything falls apart. Take Jaime for example, the ultimate redemption story, one of the best parts of the show and they ruined his whole arc within a couple of Episodes. From turning on cersei to help humanity and for the first time experiencing true love and affection for another Person to 'fuck this i still love cersei, thats who i am'. His story feels useless now. This whole season damaged the rewatch value of the show. Jaime even says he never cared about the people of Kings Landing... Why would he go and fight in the North then? And this happens in the very next episode! Terrible writing. Is it just me or the hype/anticipation for the finale is not what it should be? Aaaaand he told Brienne once that he killed the mad King to rescue the people in KL i guess he just Kind of forgot about that.. My Hype is gone, my only hope is that the ending wont destroy the show for eternity because i still want to rewatch it again sometime.
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Post by sgtpeppr on May 20, 2019 0:22:20 GMT -5
well, that was terrible. boring and clichéd. way too much slow moving and longing stares in the last couple of episodes. i actually think it wouldve been better if jon killed dany at the end of episode five and have that as the ending. leave it open a bit. because the actual finale was just a happy epilogue. everyone of note who was left got exactly what they were always after. even jon gets to join the nights watch like he wanted since the first episode. the worst part was watching brienne fill out jaime's achievements. so much filler. and when did sam finish becoming a maester?
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Post by eva on May 20, 2019 8:34:35 GMT -5
it was ok-ish. on par with the whole uneven season almost as disappointing as the Lost finale, but not as bad as HIMYM
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Post by RocketMan on May 20, 2019 9:10:00 GMT -5
i'm actually not mad about the ending. but i'm mad about how they got there. this must be the most poorly written final season of anything ever. i cant believe how they rushed through the plot while butchering established character developments. it feels like there is at least a whole season missing, a whole season that could have helped to explain danys downfall, brans motives, jaimes return to cersei, THE FUCKING WHITE WALKERS AND THE NIGHT KING WHO WAS NEVER MENTIONED AGAIN. you know, all of it. absolutely mindblowing how badly executed this season was
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Post by eva on May 20, 2019 9:17:42 GMT -5
this shot was pretty amazing
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Post by RocketMan on May 20, 2019 9:29:58 GMT -5
this shot was pretty amazing U MAH KUWEEN DANY. I WILL LUV YA NOW AND FOR EVAAA #forthewatchbitch
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Post by sgtpeppr on May 20, 2019 9:43:10 GMT -5
this shot was pretty amazing i actually thought this shot was super cheesy. i laughed out loud when i saw it...
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Post by funhouse on May 20, 2019 10:02:59 GMT -5
i'm actually not mad about the ending. but i'm mad about how they got there. this must be the most poorly written final season of anything ever. i cant believe how they rushed through the plot while butchering established character developments. it feels like there is at least a whole season missing, a whole season that could have helped to explain danys downfall, brans motives, jaimes return to cersei, THE FUCKING WHITE WALKERS AND THE NIGHT KING WHO WAS NEVER MENTIONED AGAIN. you know, all of it. absolutely mindblowing how badly executed this season was So many characters were just... around. Tyrion stopped being at all intresting last two seasons, apart from killing the Night King Arya did fuck all(no one ever references it, she never brings it up, it's like it literally never happened. Absolute SHIT SHIT SHIT writing. Why didn't they make her a part of the plan to take down Cersei, using someone's face? Because then there would be no cool dragon CGI), and why not awkwardly bring back Bronn for three episode because...? Bran did what with all his magical powers? He sent crows once or twice to annoy the Night King. Don't even mention Jon Snow, the absolute bore of a character. He did his honorable thing of letting the wildlings in, after that he was nothing but a naive moron. For the sake of the show he should have stayed dead. And Sam, wasn't he kil... oh, I almost forgot that he bravely fought off those terrifying zombies with no fighting skills whatsoever. But hey, we must protect the good guys! Such an anti climax. I can't believe how frustrating it must be for people who watched this for years, for it to end up like this.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on May 20, 2019 10:57:46 GMT -5
I have seen a few arguments defending aspects of the finale and I think I am starting to see it. At the moment I am trying to come to terms with being disappointed I didn't get what I wanted (Jon on the throne) and Bran getting it. It's a bit unfair. But I am seeing more merit in Jon's end, since he got exactly what he wanted, minus killing his lover of course.
I really don't like that Bran got it. I get that he manipulated his way into it, but it was never established that the 3ER wants to rule. And for fucks sake, they cut Bran out of an entire season of the show. And he's barely been in it this season.
I dislike they injected humor into the second half of the episode. And it was terrible humor. And I hate that they included characters like Edmure and gave him lines and shit when they could have spent more scenes wrapping other characters up.
I hate that in the dragon pits, they didn't even contemplate saying, "Fuck Grey Worm. Jon is the rightful heir. He sacrificed everything twice for the betterment of the kingdoms. He's our king. We will fight for him."
I hate that they just laughed at Sam. After 8 seasons, he's earned no ones respect. Character assassination.
I hate that after Drogon flies off and the second half begins, everybody phones in their performance. It was really bad. The direction, the dialogue, the humor, the performances ... "Let's just get this shit over with."
I really want the end to be Drogon flying off. And then the end. That's it.
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Post by eva on May 20, 2019 11:17:42 GMT -5
i actually thought this shot was super cheesy. i laughed out loud when i saw it... I thought that was pretty cool. for me the cheesiest part was the "Song of Ice and Fire" book
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Post by oasismashups on May 20, 2019 13:12:09 GMT -5
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