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Post by spaneli on Aug 24, 2011 15:13:29 GMT -5
Why does it matter? She can respond to whoever she wants. It is a forum. He made the best post representing that perspective, so surely GD should look to address that? If her own opinions are so opposed. Yeah even so, it's a forum. There is no post that one should respond to, just what they want to respond to. Just as I wouldn't say that you should respond to any particular post. It's your free will. That's the forum.
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Post by thomaslivesforever on Aug 24, 2011 15:19:19 GMT -5
I don't think so. But I am inclined to not argue any further. I got bored of this like 4 posts ago. I have nothing more to add to what I have already said so far and nothing anyone has said has changed my mind. And at this point you guys are just restating nonsense.
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Post by thomaslivesforever on Aug 24, 2011 15:43:33 GMT -5
He shouldn't have a few beers after work at all? I assume it didn't come out of nowhere on the day of the gig and therefore, he felt the onset of it the night before. Surely, if that's the case, he shouldn't have aggravated it by drinking and smoking? His voice had been ragged for some months before that so in the sense that drinking and smoking aggrivated what was a problem already is true guess. But if he awoke that morning and couldn't get a word out then thats a little different. No one predicts that. Its hardly fair to just say he shouldn't drink or smoke? How many other singers do you reckon it happens to? They arn't going to quit the things they enjoy for something as infrequent as that.
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Post by gdforever on Aug 24, 2011 15:44:10 GMT -5
If I refuse to argue you roll your eyes. If I do argue you get pissed anyways. Nothing was gonna make you happy.
Nothing I say is gonna make any difference. Fact is that Liam's story of drinking until the wee hours of the morning after he'd been hollaring @ a football game all afternoon and then waking up and cancelling a gig that he should have been resting for considering his already crap vocals isn't any less professional than cancelling for a hangover after being out drinking.
If he thinks that the fact that he had a doctors note for his sore throat means that he didn't act irresponsibly and unprofessionally he is dreaming and all of you are dreaming with him. He filed this suit because he wanted assert his professionalism. Fact is...he didn't. I don't care if it wasn't a hangover. He was still unprofessional. I positive I can find quotes of myself saying that Liam had been unprofessional in regards to the V cancellation a year before Noel's press conference. It has ALWAYS been my opinion and doesn't have any basis in what Noel says.
He may have gotten Noel to apologize for offending him. But he's still the tool that didn't make an effort for the band he had been in for 20 years and show a blatant disregard for the band that relied on him, including his brother, and the fans that wanted to see them.
It was unprofessional. BOTTOM LINE.
In answer to Nyron. YES, with his shit vocals in Oasis I expected him to rest his voice between gigs so that he can perform well. If the only way that he can do that is to spend a few nights a week in his hotel room watching X-factor then thats what he should do. He can do whatever he wants...but it was unprofessional to do what he did.
You know what? Being a vocalist sucks...you can't do whatever the fuck you want and expect no consequences. He neglected his voice and everyone else paid the consequences for him. The guitarist can get wasted and still perform the next day. The vocalist can't. It's not fair...but it's true.
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Post by Rolo on Aug 24, 2011 16:00:07 GMT -5
I agree with everything tomlivesforever has put.
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Post by Nyron Nosworthy on Aug 24, 2011 16:00:37 GMT -5
If you have any evidence of him being completely mortal AND that it directly affects his voice then fair enough. All we have at the minute though is one photo of him stood looking fairly sober with a can of Guinness in his hand. The rest is pure speculation.
I find it crazy that he is being criticised for something that may or may not have actually happened and may or may not have contributed when there are so many other factors out there, such as the fact he was in the final week of a 13 month world tour. People were actually praising him at the time anyway for taking up jogging and taking better care of his voice after the DBTT tour fiasco!
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Post by thuperthonic on Aug 24, 2011 16:41:43 GMT -5
I agree with everything tomlivesforever has put. There's a shocker.
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Post by gdforever on Aug 24, 2011 17:26:24 GMT -5
Nobody has claimed he was sober the night before. If he had been you can be sure that Liam and Andy would have mentioned it. That would have been just as damning, if not more damning, than the existence of a doctors note. But NOT ONCE as anyone claimed that he hadn't been out drinking the night before. Only didn't cancel for the hangover. So given the fact that the only evidence we have is that Liam did go out drinking until the wee hours of the morning and that stands uncontested by either side...I'm not going to entertain the idea that Liam had been sober the night before. The picture is of Liam drinking...there is NO WAY you can empirically tell me he is barely drunk there
Judging by previous behavior of Liam drinking heavily the night before gigs I'm willing to believe that he didn't engage in a great deal of preshow professionalism and this was just one in a long list.
The fact that he is now barely drinking because he says it affects his voice is pretty clear evidence that alcohol DID affect his vocal ability.
I was never super impressed with his performance in the DOYS tour. I can't stand to listen to the iTune gigs. And I am even less impressed now that we know how he COULD have sounded
The 13 months tour is irrelevant. People that do 13 month tours don't always have the cancel for the vocalist. And he didn't deteriorate. He started shit, he was shit halfway through, he ended shit. The fact is that he sounded better at the beginning of the BDI tour with a flu when he made the effort and modified his lifestyle than he did the entire DOYS tour where he was presumbly well for most of those gigs. Even the first song of the first gig.
As I said, I have always been critical about the events around that cancellation from far before Noel's Press Conference. I always thought that anger over that cancellation played a part in the split...although I am surprised that the fight was begun by Liam sounding off about the negative press. I would have thought it would have been Noel that started it bitching about Liam being unprofessional.
Noel's comments haven't changed my opinion in anyway about V fest.
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Post by LSF on Aug 24, 2011 17:29:09 GMT -5
You're not understanding. Yes Liam had a doctors note that stated that he had laryngitis, but Noel knows, just like everyone, how Liam got laryngitis; from drinking and smoking until 4AM.
All I want is the truth and for both of them to move on and stop looking like complete parodies of themselves in the press. I think they've done that enough.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Aug 24, 2011 17:30:34 GMT -5
I love how Noel's story changes all the time. No point arguing with fanboys. Are you lgfaver in disguise?
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Post by thomaslivesforever on Aug 24, 2011 17:52:00 GMT -5
Nobody has claimed he was sober the night before. If he had been you can be sure that Liam and Andy would have mentioned it. That would have been just as damning, if not more damning, than the existence of a doctors note. But NOT ONCE as anyone claimed that he hadn't been out drinking the night before. Only didn't cancel for the hangover. So given the fact that the only evidence we have is that Liam did go out drinking until the wee hours of the morning and that stands uncontested by either side...I'm not going to entertain the idea that Liam had been sober the night before. The picture is of Liam drinking...there is NO WAY you can empirically tell me he is barely drunk there Judging by previous behavior of Liam drinking heavily the night before gigs I'm willing to believe that he didn't engage in a great deal of preshow professionalism and this was just one in a long list. The fact that he is now barely drinking because he says it affects his voice is pretty clear evidence that alcohol DID affect his vocal ability. I was never super impressed with his performance in the DOYS tour. I can't stand to listen to the iTune gigs. And I am even less impressed now that we know how he COULD have sounded The 13 months tour is irrelevant. People that do 13 month tours don't always have the cancel for the vocalist. And he didn't deteriorate. He started shit, he was shit halfway through, he ended shit. The fact is that he sounded better at the beginning of the BDI tour with a flu when he made the effort and modified his lifestyle than he did the entire DOYS tour where he was presumbly well for most of those gigs. Even the first song of the first gig. As I said, I have always been critical about the events around that cancellation from far before Noel's Press Conference. I always thought that anger over that cancellation played a part in the split...although I am surprised that the fight was begun by Liam sounding off about the negative press. I would have thought it would have been Noel that started it bitching about Liam being unprofessional. Noel's comments haven't changed my opinion in anyway about V fest. Everyone is different, you can't simply compare one voice to another and what the effects of touring will do. You are also wrong about the state of his voice. The first part of the tour that took in Seattle etc. he was sounding pretty good and with most Oasis tours it started to deteriorate. A singers voice gets worse after a shit load of gigs, its hardly rocket science. And Liam might have a voice more suseptable to wear and tear. You say it can't be said he's not drunk (he doesn't look it) but how can you tell me he was? Has Liam always been the greatest professional? No, i don't think anyone would argue that but he's not been bad in general and in 2000 he took the band across europe without Noel fufilling his commitments.
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Post by Guigs on Aug 24, 2011 18:01:12 GMT -5
The thing about this whole matter isn't that some of us aren't trying to pin the entire blame on Noel, but rather saying that he deserves at least 50% of the blame for the whole mess. The fact that some posters here are absolving Noel from any wrongdoing is what is getting annoying.
We all know Liam isn't a saint, and hasn't gone about things the best way, but to simply blame him for everything is just a cop out.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Aug 24, 2011 18:04:31 GMT -5
The thing about this whole matter isn't that some of us aren't trying to pin the entire blame on Noel, but rather saying that he deserves at least 50% of the blame for the whole mess. The fact that some posters here are absolving Noel from any wrongdoing is what is getting annoying. We all know Liam isn't a saint, and hasn't gone about things the best way, but to simply blame him for everything is just a cop out. He deserves blame for offering an opinion that had no malicious intent attached to it, and moreover most likely had some factual aspects attached to it? Yeah, ok, whatever you say.
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Post by gdforever on Aug 24, 2011 18:05:46 GMT -5
Told you so.
That's fine if you think that Liam did nothing wrong. I believe that he did. If he comes out and says that he wasnt drunk the night before I might consider the possibility that he isn't lying. But he hasn't even done that.
I doubt it is true that he went home directly after this phto a bit buzzed @ 3 am slept well and woke up unexpectedly with viral laryngitis. But if you want to believe that go ahead. I think you are delusional...but it's possible. It's an outside chance...but OK.
And Liam has already said that alcohol negative affects his voice. I think alcohol affects voices. I think most people think alcohol is detrimental to voices. I am not going to get in an arguement about what amount of the wear and tear was alcohol, what amount was unavoidable abuse (gigs), what amount was avoidable abuse (the football match), and what amount is smoking (which we'll treat as a constant...although everyone I know smokes more on a night out than a night in)
If Liam was more prone he should have known it and as a professional acted accordingly. He can't pretend to be shocked that his voice is a bit raw after a late night out.
Also in 2000 Liam went out after a night @ Wembley and came the next night smashed and fucked up a massive gig for Oasis.
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Post by gdforever on Aug 24, 2011 18:07:17 GMT -5
The thing about this whole matter isn't that some of us aren't trying to pin the entire blame on Noel, but rather saying that he deserves at least 50% of the blame for the whole mess. The fact that some posters here are absolving Noel from any wrongdoing is what is getting annoying. We all know Liam isn't a saint, and hasn't gone about things the best way, but to simply blame him for everything is just a cop out. I'm sorry. What? It was Noel's fault that they cancelled V? What have I missed?
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Post by kimallenbewick on Aug 24, 2011 18:26:03 GMT -5
Finally Liam thinking... but after acting like always. Does anyone still think there won't be a reunion? Come on! We all know since the day of the split :8
PD: Some of you arguing about this thing over and over again saying the same thing is getting boring.
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Post by thomaslivesforever on Aug 24, 2011 18:29:13 GMT -5
Told you so. That's fine if you think that Liam did nothing wrong. I believe that he did. If he comes out and says that he wasnt drunk the night before I might consider the possibility that he isn't lying. But he hasn't even done that. I doubt it is true that he went home directly after this phto a bit buzzed @ 3 am slept well and woke up unexpectedly with viral laryngitis. But if you want to believe that go ahead. I think you are delusional...but it's possible. It's an outside chance...but OK. And Liam has already said that alcohol negative affects his voice. I think alcohol affects voices. I think most people think alcohol is detrimental to voices. I am not going to get in an arguement about what amount of the wear and tear was alcohol, what amount was unavoidable abuse (gigs), what amount was avoidable abuse (the football match), and what amount is smoking (which we'll treat as a constant...although everyone I know smokes more on a night out than a night in) If Liam was more prone he should have known it and as a professional acted accordingly. He can't pretend to be shocked that his voice is a bit raw after a late night out. Also in 2000 Liam went out after a night @ Wembley and came the next night smashed and fucked up a massive gig for Oasis. This football match thing is bizzare, is there any footage of him shouting his bollocks off at all? Were you at Wembley? I know a few who were who said it was an amazing gig. I also remember a few good reviews for that night to. The main point being, with Liam being like that nobody knew what was going to happen, it was exciting. Sure if you're looking for a slick genesis like production it wasn't for you.
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Post by gdforever on Aug 24, 2011 18:54:30 GMT -5
I've listened to Wembley. It wasn't the best.
If you choose to believe that after 20 years in the business Liam had no idea that nights out boozing until the early morning wasn't good for your voice then he is a bigger moron than I thought...or you are a bigger chump
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Post by Rolo on Aug 24, 2011 19:26:37 GMT -5
The thing about this whole matter isn't that some of us aren't trying to pin the entire blame on Noel, but rather saying that he deserves at least 50% of the blame for the whole mess. The fact that some posters here are absolving Noel from any wrongdoing is what is getting annoying. We all know Liam isn't a saint, and hasn't gone about things the best way, but to simply blame him for everything is just a cop out. I'm sorry. What? It was Noel's fault that they cancelled V? What have I missed? All he's saying is Noel is to blame for this as well, not just Liam. Noel came out and said the reason they didn't play V was because Liam had a hangover which I still to this day don't believe at all, Liam has played gigs drugged/smashed off his face and has never ever pulled out of a gig because of a hangover, I'm sure even if he did have a hangover he would of played the gig so I don't buy that at all. That picture that had been published just shows he was having a can of Guinness, who's to say he was 'smashed' off his face like some of you are saying, were you there? The picture doesn't prove anything other than Liam was having a drink but a lot of you have come to the conclusion he must of been hammered. Liam does have to take some blame as well but the way some of you put your posts is so fucking annoying, Noel is no saint either!
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Post by gdforever on Aug 24, 2011 19:34:28 GMT -5
I have never said that I thought that Noel was 100% correct. I don't think he should have said what he did.
But I don't buy into the thought that Liam was professional around V festival. He was just unprofessional in a slightly different way. The idea that Liam did nothing wrong and deserves to complain about people maligning his professionalism is absurd. He WAS unprofessional IMO.
Why does every comment that is negative about Liam AUTOMATICALLY mean that the poster agrees with everything that Noel says.
I do think that Noel meant that the drinking caused him not to be able to preform...and I agree with that. But I don't agree with the way he actually said it.
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Post by Rolo on Aug 24, 2011 19:46:45 GMT -5
But the thing I don't see how the night before V fest was any different to any other night on the tour? I'm guessing Liam and the lads had a few drinks after every gig, that's just what comes with touring. Noel even said on the webchat Liam has provided a docter's note so it's all very legit, yet still some of you question it? Don't get that at all. It may well of been brought on by drinking, it might not of, has it ever crossed your mind it might of down to touring for over a year solid? They were right at the end of a very long and hard world tour.
At the end of the day I'm just glad it's all sorted now, Noel said sorry which was the right thing to do and Liam pulled the court case which was again the right thing to do.
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Post by gdforever on Aug 24, 2011 19:53:05 GMT -5
That's fine. I agree that this court case thing was handled the best it could be too as I said on the very first page.
But that doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on Liam cancelling V festival. My opinion predates Noel's press conference and it's still my opinion
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Post by spaneli on Aug 24, 2011 20:00:00 GMT -5
Laryngitis can be gotten anytime. And alcohol and smoking can increase the chances of one getting laryngitis.
I think the point that is trying being made is that, if one fires their gun in the air every year on New Years, and someone get hits by a bullet from your gun on year. Your excuse can't be that you do it every year, and that there's always a chance of someone getting hit by a bullet from someone else's gun. It doesn't matter how many times you do it. Just that you did it, and that you increased the likelihood of it happening and caused it to happen in some way.
I'm not saying that I believe or I know that smoking and drinking etc caused Liam's laryngitis. I'm just saying that this is a possible argument, or the point that some are trying to make. And I think that it's a somewhat valid point to make, or discuss.
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Post by gdforever on Aug 24, 2011 20:03:54 GMT -5
I will say this. I'm glad that Liam has smartened up for BDI. I wish he would have done it for Oasis.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Aug 24, 2011 20:09:03 GMT -5
At the end of the day, Noel has every right to his opinion and has every right to broadcast his opinion. End of. Noel did nothing wrong. Liam is an idiot for thinking he could win the case, but thank God he came to his senses. Case closed. Yet this thread continues to go on. No idea why.
You have realized that all the editorials in newspapers are opinions, right? Think how many lawsuits would be floating around England for The Telegraph calling Obama a socialist or whatever label you want to attach for this example. Think about how dangerous that precedent would be. People are entitled to their opinions, ffs.
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