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Post by Lennon2217 on Dec 23, 2016 0:31:28 GMT -5
The exact number is 6 millions not 7, this is a fair number, in 2005 people were still buying albums, X&Y by Coldplay sold an impressive number of 14 millions copies, so Oasis selling 6 millions at that time wasn't something out of this world. DBTT put Oasis on the map again, their two number one singles says a lot I guess, both their poppiest singles since MG days got them more attetion, also the album got better reviews than the last two albums. I'd like to see the numbers broken down by region with supportive links. 6 million is still to high when only 1.2 million copies came from their biggest markets (UK and USA). That's over 4 million copies sold outside the USA and UK. I simply have a hard time buying that.
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Post by MacaRonic on Dec 23, 2016 0:55:33 GMT -5
Most people on this forum, I would guess, were not even fans of the band or were too young to remember 2005, but Oasis were pretty big again in '05. People were still physically buying albums and there was a resurgence in indie rock music and Oasis were very much part of it. I remember people, who knew I was a fan of the band, coming up to me and pretty much patting me on the back saying how much they like 'Lyla' or 'Idle' like it was something I had achieved, it was weird but a very exciting time to be a fan of the band.
2 number 1 singles, singles that were physically released, not just downloads, number 1 album with very good reviews and a mammoth tour that was selling out everywhere. Very different times to now.
I'd believe that figure. I have 3 copies of it myself.
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Post by guigsysEstring on Dec 23, 2016 3:02:51 GMT -5
Lennon2217 @tjalke A March 2009 retailer flyer from Warner Music for Oasis which I have linked before has sales of DBTT at 6,000,000 worldwide- Warner Music PDF which was a statistic given almost four years after the album's release so I would say that was enough time elapsed to have included "mop up" sales as well. A couple of things to bear in mind here is that firstly certifications in the 20th Century and well into the first decade of the 21st Century were based on shipments by the distributor to retail markets, NOT the final retail sales (i.e. taken home by fans)- it is explained in part in this 2011 Tunecore Blog. As the article also goes on to explain due to non-industry body distribution taking over selling with direct to public mediums not requiring major label or industry body affiliated distribution and physical shops much of the music sales and streaming certifications and actual total sales are even harder to verify. Although the pre-digital and early digital method of sales described above sounds bizarre it did actually work quite well. With most releases a label would not press up too many copies simply to ship them for a gold or platinum disc, nor buy too much rack space with key chains such as HMV, Our Price, Tower Records and Virgin Records, although this did happen on multiple occasions with both hyped new artists or major artists whereby in order to gain publicity and even promote a more lucrative tour with perhaps an underhand label support & profit agreement attached the record company would firstly take a hit on pressing enough records to gain certification/s which in turn raised the profile of said artist before embarking on tours. Oasis did along with guitar based music in general experience a resurgence in 2005/06 undoubtedly, but as another example Hard-Fi's debut from the same year, 'Stars of CCTV', gained two UK platinum discs from the BPI for 600,000 sales but is routinely quoted as having sold 1,200,000 worldwide. This would assume either they indeed sold a further 600,000 albums outside the UK where they had very limited success at best, or more likely copies were shipped in key target markets such as the US but were returned unsold. As a further back example of over estimating record sales Creation Records pressed up 100,000 copies of 'Going Blank Again' by Ride but were left with thousands of unsold copies when the first week sales came in at 45,000 copies sold, which would in all likelihood have been returned as a cult independent band in the pre-digital era would have gained most if not all sales of an album to their fans on the first week of release. I would also assume 'X&Y' by Coldplay would come into the category of heavy pressing as in 2005 EMI were desperate for a major seller having essentially blamed the band in part for a profits drop relating to releasing the record outside the financial year which resulted in a rather angry response from Chris Martin- Independent 2005- EMI shrugs off Coldplay star's tiradeUltimately there is no solid proof of how many copies of DBTT actually went home with record buyers, but I do believe the Warner Music press statement which essentially claims 6,000,000 copies were certainly shipped and as we know arguably the most successful and trouble free tour resulted from that release. Hopefully this has given you chaps some insight into the remarkably murky world of record certifications and sales
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Post by Gas Panic on Dec 23, 2016 4:44:20 GMT -5
As people have said there was a very positive vibe around all things oasis during the DBTT era, you had a well received album, the huge tour, and at least two very popular singles. I remember the era very fondly as it was when I first got into them.
Also don't forget that 2006 was also a pretty big year for the band, they toured DBTT into Spring and carried on the momentum with the release of Stop The Clocks. DBTT must have been selling consistently well for a solid 18 months, which would explain the large amount of sales.
I'm not sure what happened but this momentum that oasis had achieved didn't seem to carry on into the DOYS era.
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Post by draper on Dec 23, 2016 4:45:59 GMT -5
It amazes me as well. I always thought it sold max 3 million. Sotsog 2 or 2,5 and Heathen Chemistry 3 or 3,5. Based on numbers given by the NME etc at the time. Good for them though if it sold 6.
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Post by freddy838 on Dec 23, 2016 5:03:32 GMT -5
I believe radio 1 stopped playing Oasis during DOYS as they started going for a younger demographic which wouldn't have helped sales.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2016 5:40:20 GMT -5
Lyla being in FIFA 06 did probably help as well.
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Post by guigsysEstring on Dec 23, 2016 5:44:01 GMT -5
Most people on this forum, I would guess, were not even fans of the band or were too young to remember 2005, but Oasis were pretty big again in '05. People were still physically buying albums and there was a resurgence in indie rock music and Oasis were very much part of it. I remember people, who knew I was a fan of the band, coming up to me and pretty much patting me on the back saying how much they like 'Lyla' or 'Idle' like it was something I had achieved, it was weird but a very exciting time to be a fan of the band. 2 number 1 singles, singles that were physically released, not just downloads, number 1 album with very good reviews and a mammoth tour that was selling out everywhere. Very different times to now. I'd believe that figure. I have 3 copies of it myself.That makes you a slightly cooler version of the mob that were part of the Diana circus in 1997
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Post by Lennon2217 on Dec 23, 2016 9:17:12 GMT -5
Lennon2217 @tjalke A March 2009 retailer flyer from Warner Music for Oasis which I have linked before has sales of DBTT at 6,000,000 worldwide- Warner Music PDF which was a statistic given almost four years after the album's release so I would say that was enough time elapsed to have included "mop up" sales as well. A couple of things to bear in mind here is that firstly certifications in the 20th Century and well into the first decade of the 21st Century were based on shipments by the distributor to retail markets, NOT the final retail sales (i.e. taken home by fans)- it is explained in part in this 2011 Tunecore Blog. As the article also goes on to explain due to non-industry body distribution taking over selling with direct to public mediums not requiring major label or industry body affiliated distribution and physical shops much of the music sales and streaming certifications and actual total sales are even harder to verify. Although the pre-digital and early digital method of sales described above sounds bizarre it did actually work quite well. With most releases a label would not press up too many copies simply to ship them for a gold or platinum disc, nor buy too much rack space with key chains such as HMV, Our Price, Tower Records and Virgin Records, although this did happen on multiple occasions with both hyped new artists or major artists whereby in order to gain publicity and even promote a more lucrative tour with perhaps an underhand label support & profit agreement attached the record company would firstly take a hit on pressing enough records to gain certification/s which in turn raised the profile of said artist before embarking on tours. Oasis did along with guitar based music in general experience a resurgence in 2005/06 undoubtedly, but as another example Hard-Fi's debut from the same year, 'Stars of CCTV', gained two UK platinum discs from the BPI for 600,000 sales but is routinely quoted as having sold 1,200,000 worldwide. This would assume either they indeed sold a further 600,000 albums outside the UK where they had very limited success at best, or more likely copies were shipped in key target markets such as the US but were returned unsold. As a further back example of over estimating record sales Creation Records pressed up 100,000 copies of 'Going Blank Again' by Ride but were left with thousands of unsold copies when the first week sales came in at 45,000 copies sold, which would in all likelihood have been returned as a cult independent band in the pre-digital era would have gained most if not all sales of an album to their fans on the first week of release. I would also assume 'X&Y' by Coldplay would come into the category of heavy pressing as in 2005 EMI were desperate for a major seller having essentially blamed the band in part for a profits drop relating to releasing the record outside the financial year which resulted in a rather angry response from Chris Martin- Independent 2005- EMI shrugs off Coldplay star's tiradeUltimately there is no solid proof of how many copies of DBTT actually went home with record buyers, but I do believe the Warner Music press statement which essentially claims 6,000,000 copies were certainly shipped and as we know arguably the most successful and trouble free tour resulted from that release. Hopefully this has given you chaps some insight into the remarkably murky world of record certifications and sales Thanks. They might have shipped 6 million but 6 million people didn't buy the album. The numbers just don't add up when you go through each country and start adding the albums sold. Still way off the mark after counting UK, USA, Germany and Japan. They need another 4 million from across the globe in non big markets.
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Post by Headmaster on Dec 23, 2016 9:25:21 GMT -5
In 2005 downloads existed but people were still buying a huge amount of albums, also youtube wasn't a big deal yet, there was MTV which was still important and both Lyla and TIOBI promos were on heavy rotation on that chanel.
2005 saw an Oasis resurgence, two number 1 singles, LTBL number 2, DBTT sold a lot, got better reviews, it was their biggest tour, the compilation Stop the Clocks sold 3 millions, LDSMD dvd... It was a great time for Oasis.
At that time Coldplay, U2 and many others big acts were still big sellers, they sold numbers which they won't reach again even if they release their poppiest and best album, cos the market changed.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Dec 23, 2016 9:28:49 GMT -5
In 2005 downloads existed but people were still buying a huge amount of albums, also youtube wasn't a big deal yet, there was MTV which was still important and both Lyla and TIOBI promos were on heavy rotation on that chanel. 2005 saw an Oasis resurgence, two number 1 singles, LTBL number 2, DBTT sold a lot, got better reviews, it was their biggest tour, the compilation Stop the Clocks sold 3 millions, LDSMD dvd... It was a great time for Oasis. At that time Coldplay, U2 and many others big acts were still big sellers, they sold numbers which they won't reach again even if they release their poppiest and best album, cos the market changed. I get all that, I really do but even with all that success, mainly in the UK, the album barely sold a million copies. It only sold 200,000 in America. I did not sell a million between Germany and Japan, the two other largest markets. So where did Oasis push those extra 4 million plus units to get to 6 million? When you do the math it just doesn't work unless they counted units shipped which is misleading and not accurate. Even if the number is only 3 million overall that is still excellent.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2016 9:54:11 GMT -5
Yeah it seems like it is bullshit. Let's say it sold 1 million in the U.K, 1 million in the rest of Europe, 500,000 in the U.S, 1 million in South America, 500,000 in Japan, and 500,000 in the rest of the world. That's really really generous and it's still just 4.5 millions. lol @ the people saying the 6m or 7m number is wrong, yet these same people are just pulling random numbers out of their arses as a guesstimate and saying that it's more likely than the official number. Ummm WHAT!? its not random numbers, its looking at the data and a plotting a realistic result, if you put the sales of each album on a graph, DBTT would probably a be a discarded result, SOTSOG and HC were around 3 million and DOYS was 1.6 million, to get a result of 7 million right in the middle of that is abit suspect. The individual sales in the UK and US markets dont even put it close to the mark so you have to try and find out where the other 5+ million sales came from outside of their two biggest markets. Plus your telling me an album released in 2005 could sell only 1 million less than one released in 1997 when the whole britpop thing was raging and they were coming off an album that sold 22 million with huge expectations and excitement? I cant see it.
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Post by Frank Lee Vulgar on Dec 23, 2016 10:02:43 GMT -5
If the charts show us anything, it's that generic sells. From 2001-2007 Oasis were making very uninspired, very standard, very formulaic music - which is a great recipe for moderate-to-great commercial success when your brand has already been established; that's why Bono gets to do his Messiah impressions in stadiums every other week. I mean, the music's shite - but who cares? Certainly not Noel Gallagher at the time, it seems. Pretty much what I always thought. DOYS has much better standouts than HC or DBTT, but songs like SCYHO or Lyla are radio friendly while TSOTL and Falling Down definitely aren't. Quality-wise, DBTT is as close to selling out as Oasis ever came, and I'm very happy that DOYS came after it.
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Post by cloudburster on Dec 23, 2016 10:13:49 GMT -5
As people have said there was a very positive vibe around all things oasis during the DBTT era, you had a well received album, the huge tour, and at least two very popular singles. I remember the era very fondly as it was when I first got into them. Also don't forget that 2006 was also a pretty big year for the band, they toured DBTT into Spring and carried on the momentum with the release of Stop The Clocks. DBTT must have been selling consistently well for a solid 18 months, which would explain the large amount of sales. I'm not sure what happened but this momentum that oasis had achieved didn't seem to carry on into the DOYS era. I always thought that had DOYS been released in 2007 things would have been far better. As you said they had some momentum following DBTT and Stop The Clocks, plus they won the lifetime achievement BRIT award in early 07. Unfortunately they released the next album 20 months after this and all the momentum and interest had fizzled out.
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Post by Headmaster on Dec 23, 2016 10:25:01 GMT -5
In 2005 downloads existed but people were still buying a huge amount of albums, also youtube wasn't a big deal yet, there was MTV which was still important and both Lyla and TIOBI promos were on heavy rotation on that chanel. 2005 saw an Oasis resurgence, two number 1 singles, LTBL number 2, DBTT sold a lot, got better reviews, it was their biggest tour, the compilation Stop the Clocks sold 3 millions, LDSMD dvd... It was a great time for Oasis. At that time Coldplay, U2 and many others big acts were still big sellers, they sold numbers which they won't reach again even if they release their poppiest and best album, cos the market changed. I get all that, I really do but even with all that success, mainly in the UK, the album barely sold a million copies. It only sold 200,000 in America. I did not sell a million between Germany and Japan, the two other largest markets. So where did Oasis push those extra 4 million plus units to get to 6 million? When you do the math it just doesn't work unless they counted units shipped which is misleading and not accurate. Even if the number is only 3 million overall that is still excellent. If We want to talk about shipped albums, then We have to put other bands on the boat too, Coldplay, U2, Radiohead, Green Day... What if half of BHN 8 million copies are shipped numbers too?
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Post by Lennon2217 on Dec 23, 2016 10:28:52 GMT -5
I get all that, I really do but even with all that success, mainly in the UK, the album barely sold a million copies. It only sold 200,000 in America. I did not sell a million between Germany and Japan, the two other largest markets. So where did Oasis push those extra 4 million plus units to get to 6 million? When you do the math it just doesn't work unless they counted units shipped which is misleading and not accurate. Even if the number is only 3 million overall that is still excellent. If We want to talk about shipped albums, then We have to put other bands on the boat too, Coldplay, U2, Radiohead, Green Day... What if half of BHN 8 million copies are shipped numbers too? That's fine. I'm not a big album sales guy. Doesn't mean anything to me. Im just saying that no way DBTT sold 6-7 million copies. The math simply doesn't work. It's a great narrative of the band in 2005 but it really isn't the truth of the situation.
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Post by Headmaster on Dec 23, 2016 10:32:20 GMT -5
As people have said there was a very positive vibe around all things oasis during the DBTT era, you had a well received album, the huge tour, and at least two very popular singles. I remember the era very fondly as it was when I first got into them. Also don't forget that 2006 was also a pretty big year for the band, they toured DBTT into Spring and carried on the momentum with the release of Stop The Clocks. DBTT must have been selling consistently well for a solid 18 months, which would explain the large amount of sales. I'm not sure what happened but this momentum that oasis had achieved didn't seem to carry on into the DOYS era. I always thought that had DOYS been released in 2007 things would have been far better. As you said they had some momentum following DBTT and Stop The Clocks, plus they won the lifetime achievement BRIT award in early 07. Unfortunately they released the next album 20 months after this and all the momentum and interest had fizzled out. Agree. But huge drop in sales wasn't something new to Oasis, BHN was a huge drop from MG, SOTSOG was a huge drop from BHN, DOYS was a huge drop from DBTT...
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Post by matt on Dec 23, 2016 10:39:16 GMT -5
If the charts show us anything, it's that generic sells. From 2001-2007 Oasis were making very uninspired, very standard, very formulaic music - which is a great recipe for moderate-to-great commercial success when your brand has already been established; that's why Bono gets to do his Messiah impressions in stadiums every other week. I mean, the music's shite - but who cares? Certainly not Noel Gallagher at the time, it seems. Could very well be - the only massive commercial behemoth that has been released in the last 15 years which has a good sense of creativity to it is Viva La Vida in my opinion. Aside from that, there isn't much to differentiate the guitar bands that were dominating the charts up until the late 2000s. This was the time when indie landfill dominated also the charts, akin to something like a 'Poundshop Britpop' with Kaiser Chiefs, Razorlight and Kasabian were noted admirers who grew up with it. So naturally, the band that was most influential would see a second wind, despite the quality of the album not being massively superior to the other post 90s output. The nostalgia effect was also beginning to also play out after ten plus years from the band's peak, so might have had something to do with that.
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smash
Oasis Roadie
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Post by smash on Dec 23, 2016 11:33:36 GMT -5
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Post by Lennon2217 on Dec 23, 2016 11:38:16 GMT -5
Thanks for the link. Read the last 3-4 pages in that thread and it falls off around late 2008. Even with these hard numbers quoted, DBTT is still miles off the 6 million mark. They simply don't sell enough albums over the counter in countries outside the U.K., USA, Germany and Japan to muster 6-7 million.
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Post by Headmaster on Dec 23, 2016 11:46:33 GMT -5
Coldplay's X&Y really sold 14 millions copies??
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Post by guigsysEstring on Dec 23, 2016 11:48:22 GMT -5
Coldplay's X&Y really sold 14 millions copies?? Shipped to retailers rather than taken home by fans- see my much longer post if you can stomach it
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Post by Lennon2217 on Dec 23, 2016 11:48:24 GMT -5
Coldplay's X&Y really sold 14 millions copies?? Probably not
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Post by MacaRonic on Dec 24, 2016 1:33:43 GMT -5
Coldplay's X&Y really sold 14 millions copies?? Shipped to retailers rather than taken home by fans- see my much longer post if you can stomach it If you find yourself in a garage here in Ireland you'll see a stand full of CDs for sale at about €3.99 each, if you look closely you'll realise that must of these CDs are indeed Coldplay X&Y. Copies that were shipped here but not quite sold yet, I'd imagine.
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Dec 24, 2016 1:42:52 GMT -5
I'm quite shocked DBTT sold so many albums, but not shocked that DOYS hardly sold any. They are both terrible albums, Oasis at their absolute lowest form, but why DBTT sold so many is baffling.
2 popular singles, 1 with a very decent video, and Fifa no doubt helped massively.
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