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Post by andymorris on Jul 27, 2021 3:17:05 GMT -5
It's not just young people, it's an immense amount of stupid people who complain about the situation yet are not willing to make an effort for 2 years to stop it.
I still wear my mask outside and people look at me like i'm an alien.
Now it will stay with us forever. Well done, humans !
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Post by RocketMan on Jul 27, 2021 7:00:56 GMT -5
It's not just young people, it's an immense amount of stupid people who complain about the situation yet are not willing to make an effort for 2 years to stop it. I still wear my mask outside and people look at me like i'm an alien. Now it will stay with us forever. Well done, humans ! The liberals here in Germany (liberals in Germany aren’t the same as what Americans call liberals, I’ll explain later but probably not) all cry about fReEdOm and it’s every persons right to do whatever they want even if it means putting others at risk and they play right into the hands of right wing party’s and the anti vaccs movement. It’s so annoying to witness all of this. like come on now we want this thing to be over with and all you do is bitch and complain, making us head towards another lockdown at the end of the year.
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Post by LightsOffInside on Jul 27, 2021 7:05:08 GMT -5
It's not just young people, it's an immense amount of stupid people who complain about the situation yet are not willing to make an effort for 2 years to stop it. I still wear my mask outside and people look at me like i'm an alien. Now it will stay with us forever. Well done, humans ! Utter nonsense. Even if we all stayed locked up completely for 2 years, the virus wouldn't go away. And the damage that would be done due to that would be catastrophic. It is beyond naive to think we can reach a point through lockdowns where COVID just disappears. All we can reasonably do is vaccinate enough people that we can open up fully and the health system isn't overwhelmed. Which we are doing. Fair enough that the mask thing should continue, it's an easy thing for us to do, and they should've kept it. But being told by the GOVERNMENT that we aren't allowed to go inside our own families house? It was madness last year but necessary, but to have a restriction such as that now - with this amount of people vaccinated - would be obscene. There is no moral or reasonable excuse for prolonged restrictions, and it is single-minded to think so.
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Post by andymorris on Jul 27, 2021 7:39:31 GMT -5
Utter nonsense. Even if we all stayed locked up completely for 2 years, the virus wouldn't go away. What is nonsense is that lockdowns are the only option : 1 - a lot of people dont want the vaccine around the world so the virus wont disappear. A lot of poor countries cant afford it. In the world we live in, it's everyone or no one. 2 - a lot of people cant understand that you have to live differently for a few months. You can drink your beer home for 2 years FFS. Some vaccinated people just stopped being careful because they are vaccinated, which is again plain stupid. Vaccine is the solution IF people were to be reasonable. I'm fully vaccinated and fully support it, but i dont expect it to be the miracle solution, because some variants will appear at some point and the vaccine wont be effective, and because stupid people. Complete and hard lockdown until the virus is gone (maybe not two years, that timeframe was given by specialist to eradicate Covid if stuff were going well, which obviously isn't) is the only way. I'm not saying i'm a fan of that solution. Desperate time calls for desperate measures sometimes. Our generation and the one before that have lived in peaceful times mostly, compared to other generations. We have forgotten what a sacrifice is. Watching tv all day and working remotely (for people who can) + 1 hour of sports / walk a day isn't that hard. The world need stronger measures. Fast.
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Post by LightsOffInside on Jul 27, 2021 8:45:37 GMT -5
Utter nonsense. Even if we all stayed locked up completely for 2 years, the virus wouldn't go away. What is nonsense is that lockdowns are the only option : 1 - a lot of people dont want the vaccine around the world so the virus wont disappear. A lot of poor countries cant afford it. In the world we live in, it's everyone or no one. 2 - a lot of people cant understand that you have to live differently for a few months. You can drink your beer home for 2 years FFS. Some vaccinated people just stopped being careful because they are vaccinated, which is again plain stupid. Vaccine is the solution IF people were to be reasonable. I'm fully vaccinated and fully support it, but i dont expect it to be the miracle solution, because some variants will appear at some point and the vaccine wont be effective, and because stupid people. Complete and hard lockdown until the virus is gone (maybe not two years, that timeframe was given by specialist to eradicate Covid if stuff were going well, which obviously isn't) is the only way. I'm not saying i'm a fan of that solution. Desperate time calls for desperate measures sometimes. Our generation and the one before that have lived in peaceful times mostly, compared to other generations. We have forgotten what a sacrifice is. Watching tv all day and working remotely (for people who can) + 1 hour of sports / walk a day isn't that hard. The world need stronger measures. Fast. First of all "Complete and hard lockdown until the virus is gone" is not a feasible way in the slightest. Even if we welded peoples doors shut the virus wouldn't go away, it would circulate all places which were essentials (supermarkets and hospitals for a start) so that's impossible. And even if we got the UK down to zero (IMPOSSIBLE) it would find its way back in from other countries. Secondly "Watching tv all day and working remotely (for people who can) + 1 hour of sports / walk a day isn't that hard." is beyond ignorant. You really think people all have that option? Not everyone can WFH, not everyone has jobs that remain during lockdowns. What about those who's livelihoods are destroyed because of these awful lockdowns? The fact is, any decisions hurts someone, but the balance has changed and now we need to open up because there will be more damage due to lockdowns than the virus now, guaranteed. You are talking nonsense, because these things you are suggesting are not feasible solutions. Lockdowns are not designed to last years, they are short sharp measures to stop the healthcare system plummeting. And they are about as drastic a decision as can be made. And as much as I despise the current UK government, I am at least faithful that they are not stupid enough to attempt such a dangerous solution as long term lockdowns, and am appalled that anyone thinks thats a reasonable solution. They are damaging. To jobs, mental health, people with health issues, and MUCH much more. They ONLY made sense when we had no vaccines (and some of the restrictions we had were questionable even then). There is NO justification for such strict measures now. I reckon the UK are done with restrictions in these extremes, and rightly so, because FUCK that. There is more to the world than physical health, there is a balance between physical health, mental health, economy, culture. PS. Cases are dropping in the UK, for Scotland they have been dropping for 3 weeks and the rest are now dropping fast as-well. Perfect time to open up, to maximise our immunity before winter hits.
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Post by tiger40 on Jul 27, 2021 13:09:44 GMT -5
I read on the BBC news pages earlier that Michael Grove has said that people who turn down Covid vaccination are selfish and put others' lives at risk. As much as I hate our government, he has a point there.
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Post by girllikeabomb on Jul 27, 2021 16:06:29 GMT -5
First of all "Complete and hard lockdown until the virus is gone" is not a feasible way in the slightest. Even if we welded peoples doors shut the virus wouldn't go away, it would circulate all places which were essentials (supermarkets and hospitals for a start) so that's impossible. And even if we got the UK down to zero (IMPOSSIBLE) it would find its way back in from other countries. Secondly "Watching tv all day and working remotely (for people who can) + 1 hour of sports / walk a day isn't that hard." is beyond ignorant. You really think people all have that option? Not everyone can WFH, not everyone has jobs that remain during lockdowns. What about those who's livelihoods are destroyed because of these awful lockdowns? The fact is, any decisions hurts someone, but the balance has changed and now we need to open up because there will be more damage due to lockdowns than the virus now, guaranteed. You are talking nonsense, because these things you are suggesting are not feasible solutions. Lockdowns are not designed to last years, they are short sharp measures to stop the healthcare system plummeting. And they are about as drastic a decision as can be made. And as much as I despise the current UK government, I am at least faithful that they are not stupid enough to attempt such a dangerous solution as long term lockdowns, and am appalled that anyone thinks thats a reasonable solution. They are damaging. To jobs, mental health, people with health issues, and MUCH much more. They ONLY made sense when we had no vaccines (and some of the restrictions we had were questionable even then). There is NO justification for such strict measures now. I reckon the UK are done with restrictions in these extremes, and rightly so, because FUCK that. There is more to the world than physical health, there is a balance between physical health, mental health, economy, culture. PS. Cases are dropping in the UK, for Scotland they have been dropping for 3 weeks and the rest are now dropping fast as-well. Perfect time to open up, to maximise our immunity before winter hits. There was in fact a time that zero Covid could have been possible if the world had worked together and all truly locked down simultaneously for a brief period with no travel. But of course if my grandmother had wheels she would have been a bike. This world that we live in doesn't know how to stop competing. And mandating vaccines is politically tough because it angers people. So, instead, there's been a general capitulation to Covid being an endemic disease worldwide, which it will likely will be now for a long time, and life expectancy will come down everywhere (both where it's high and where it's already horribly low) because there will just be more death overall. The tricky part though is that humans have precious little control over a virus and it writes the rules, not us. If a new variant bubbles up that escapes this vaccine, or worse, for which there is no vaccine solution at all, you'll see a return to hard lockdowns. Or if a good 40% of the population never gets vaccinated, that's enough to cause hospital surges especially in winter. New variants are more likely the higher infection rates are (a virus that is spreading is a virus that is mutating)-- and although rates appear to thankfully be dropping in England, at least for the moment, they are still among the highest per capita in the world. It's a bit worrying. Maybe it will all turn out fine (the virus can also mutate to become milder, fingers crossed that soon it does). But nobody knows that. (Either way, this won't be the last pandemic, so lockdowns will happen again, since we don't really have any other good way of stopping mass death, though we can hope not in our lifetimes.) We also have no idea what late effects having had the virus might have. Already monkeys infected with Covid-19 who recover have been shown to have Lewy bodies, which cause serious brain inflammation and are involved in Parkinson's disease and dementia. Letting everyone who isn't vaccinated get infected, some possibly multiple times with different variants, is itself a massive experiment -- even though people don't realize it. Rampant infections is not really the way to "maximize immunity." Getting people vaccinated is a safer way to do that. The best hope now for the world is doing everything possible to create high levels of vaccination everywhere, for all countries to put in better local public health measures to keep infections from getting way out of control (removing masks from public transportation while infection rates are super high and half the population isn't vaccinated is kinda asking for trouble and that doesn't harm anyone's livelihood), and a vaccine patent waiver (which the UK idiotically opposes) so that more people globally can get vaccinated.
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Post by LightsOffInside on Jul 27, 2021 16:49:25 GMT -5
First of all "Complete and hard lockdown until the virus is gone" is not a feasible way in the slightest. Even if we welded peoples doors shut the virus wouldn't go away, it would circulate all places which were essentials (supermarkets and hospitals for a start) so that's impossible. And even if we got the UK down to zero (IMPOSSIBLE) it would find its way back in from other countries. Secondly "Watching tv all day and working remotely (for people who can) + 1 hour of sports / walk a day isn't that hard." is beyond ignorant. You really think people all have that option? Not everyone can WFH, not everyone has jobs that remain during lockdowns. What about those who's livelihoods are destroyed because of these awful lockdowns? The fact is, any decisions hurts someone, but the balance has changed and now we need to open up because there will be more damage due to lockdowns than the virus now, guaranteed. You are talking nonsense, because these things you are suggesting are not feasible solutions. Lockdowns are not designed to last years, they are short sharp measures to stop the healthcare system plummeting. And they are about as drastic a decision as can be made. And as much as I despise the current UK government, I am at least faithful that they are not stupid enough to attempt such a dangerous solution as long term lockdowns, and am appalled that anyone thinks thats a reasonable solution. They are damaging. To jobs, mental health, people with health issues, and MUCH much more. They ONLY made sense when we had no vaccines (and some of the restrictions we had were questionable even then). There is NO justification for such strict measures now. I reckon the UK are done with restrictions in these extremes, and rightly so, because FUCK that. There is more to the world than physical health, there is a balance between physical health, mental health, economy, culture. PS. Cases are dropping in the UK, for Scotland they have been dropping for 3 weeks and the rest are now dropping fast as-well. Perfect time to open up, to maximise our immunity before winter hits. There was in fact a time that zero Covid could have been possible if the world had worked together and all truly locked down simultaneously for a brief period with no travel. But of course if my grandmother had wheels she would have been a bike. This world that we live in doesn't know how to stop competing. And mandating vaccines is politically tough because it angers people. So, instead, there's been a general capitulation to Covid being an endemic disease worldwide, which it will likely will be now for a long time, and life expectancy will come down everywhere (both where it's high and where it's already horribly low) because there will just be more death overall. The tricky part though is that humans have precious little control over a virus and it writes the rules, not us. If a new variant bubbles up that escapes this vaccine, or worse, for which there is no vaccine solution at all, you'll see a return to hard lockdowns. Or if a good 40% of the population never gets vaccinated, that's enough to cause hospital surges especially in winter. New variants are more likely the higher infection rates are (a virus that is spreading is a virus that is mutating)-- and although rates appear to thankfully be dropping in England, at least for the moment, they are still among the highest per capita in the world. It's a bit worrying. Maybe it will all turn out fine (the virus can also mutate to become milder, fingers crossed that soon it does). But nobody knows that. (Either way, this won't be the last pandemic, so lockdowns will happen again, since we don't really have any other good way of stopping mass death, though we can hope not in our lifetimes.) We also have no idea what late effects having had the virus might have. Already monkeys infected with Covid-19 who recover have been shown to have Lewy bodies, which cause serious brain inflammation and are involved in Parkinson's disease and dementia. Letting everyone who isn't vaccinated get infected, some possibly multiple times with different variants, is itself a massive experiment -- even though people don't realize it. Rampant infections is not really the way to "maximize immunity." Getting people vaccinated is a safer way to do that. The best hope now for the world is doing everything possible to create high levels of vaccination everywhere, for all countries to put in better local public health measures to keep infections from getting way out of control (removing masks from public transportation while infection rates are super high and half the population isn't vaccinated is kinda asking for trouble and that doesn't harm anyone's livelihood), and a vaccine patent waiver (which the UK idiotically opposes) so that more people globally can get vaccinated. You make good points, but there is a fundamental problem with this way of thinking. You are only thinking from the perspective of the virus, and how it can be combatted, and ignoring the absolute carnage that restrictions and lockdowns bring, especially to the poorest in society. There has to be a balance of thinking. This is the problem with most of the medical professionals who broadcast their opinions, they only think from a physical health perspective, which may be a good way to defeat the virus but it ignores all the other factors. Lockdowns aren’t just hard, they are devastating, destructive, and drastic, and cannot be justified in any scenario except providing *just* enough to keep the healthcare system from failing. It’s immoral to keep them any longer than that.
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Post by girllikeabomb on Jul 27, 2021 17:29:12 GMT -5
You make good points, but there is a fundamental problem with this way of thinking. You are only thinking from the perspective of the virus, and how it can be combatted, and ignoring the absolute carnage that restrictions and lockdowns bring, especially to the poorest in society. There has to be a balance of thinking. This is the problem with most of the medical professionals who broadcast their opinions, they only think from a physical health perspective, which may be a good way to defeat the virus but it ignores all the other factors. Lockdowns aren’t just hard, they are devastating, destructive, and drastic, and cannot be justified in any scenario except providing *just* enough to keep the healthcare system from failing. It’s immoral to keep them any longer than that. If your father or mother or husband or wife or sister or brother dies because of lax public health measures, that might seem mighty immoral to you. Death is 100% final. Economic suffering can be eased if you're a decent society (although few societies are--most are structured so the poor suffer most -- but we have only ourselves to blame for that.) I myself had no income for a year and had to eat away at my savings to the point that my personal future will probably be forever changed by the pandemic, but so it goes. I'd much rather that than to have caused someone's death. Isolation is a harder problem but lots of people did what they could to ease that. Hell, Liam's Thames show was what I lived for during that dark time, and I thank him and many others (Tim Burgess is another because the listening parties were such a beautiful escape) for helping us all out. Which is not to say that people didn't still fall down dark holes. I know some who did. I am hopeful most will climb out again. These are not simple questions, which is why people have actually been studying them for years before this. Everyone knew a pandemic would come ...and we know that after this, another one will come ... but will people be ready? Probably not. It's not in human nature to stop everything and cooperate to solve a problem. And sometimes there is no solution that is easy and almost never is a solution painless. Often you have to sacrifice (and thankfully a lot of good people are willing to do so.) If you read what I wrote, I'm not advocating for lockdowns in the absence of serious threat of mass death or health system collapse. But there are many additional measures that can be taken. It's not an all or nothing proposition. It's not extreme restrictions vs. no restrictions. It's not endless, either. It's until infections are under control, which is something we can accomplish as human beings. We know that we can. That part is not in question. If we don't do it because it's hard, that is on us.
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Post by mimmihopps on Jul 28, 2021 7:24:00 GMT -5
As I'm fully vaccinated now, I'm allowed to go on holiday to England and other European countries without being in isolated after arriving their countries. I do need to have a negative test when I'm return.
It's weird to think of holiday abroad after being in this pandemic for 1,5 year. I haven't even been on a train for a long distance inland yet!
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Post by tiger40 on Jul 29, 2021 13:45:32 GMT -5
I read on the BBC news pages earlier that the NHS Covid app pings have raised again to a new record in England and Wales with numbers of 689,313 in the week up to July 21st.
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Post by RocketMan on Jul 29, 2021 13:55:46 GMT -5
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Jul 30, 2021 4:15:27 GMT -5
Getting my second jab tomorrow. Finally!
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Post by andymorris on Jul 30, 2021 4:43:15 GMT -5
Getting my second jab tomorrow. Finally! First one was hard, second one hardly felt a thing. Enjoy
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Post by tiger40 on Jul 30, 2021 13:10:19 GMT -5
I read on the BBC World news pages earlier that both Japan and China are now experiencing Covid out breaks.
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Aug 1, 2021 4:28:15 GMT -5
So I got my second jab yesterday. With the first one, I didn't feel they stuck it in, but this one hurt. Right now I don't feel well, it feels like I've got the flu pretty bad. I'm sweating my ass off, I'm really tired and dizzy and my arms and legs feel very heavy.
Hopefully this will be over tomorrow, because I'm going on a holiday lol.
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Post by girllikeabomb on Aug 1, 2021 5:05:59 GMT -5
So I got my second jab yesterday. With the first one, I didn't feel they stuck it in, but this one hurt. Right now I don't feel well, it feels like I've got the flu pretty bad. I'm sweating my ass off, I'm really tired and dizzy and my arms and legs feel very heavy. Hopefully this will be over tomorrow, because I'm going on a holiday lol. For MOST people I know of, if you get the flu reaction it only lasts a couple of days. Drink a lot, it helps! Congrats on getting immunity.
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Aug 1, 2021 5:55:26 GMT -5
So I got my second jab yesterday. With the first one, I didn't feel they stuck it in, but this one hurt. Right now I don't feel well, it feels like I've got the flu pretty bad. I'm sweating my ass off, I'm really tired and dizzy and my arms and legs feel very heavy. Hopefully this will be over tomorrow, because I'm going on a holiday lol. For MOST people I know of, if you get the flu reaction it only lasts a couple of days. Drink a lot, it helps! Congrats on getting immunity. I thought, and this is a bit arrogant, that I wouldn't feel a thing just like the first jab. But yeah this is what I heard from others as well, that it only takes 1 or 2 days. I'm not sure about the immunity though. They're already seriously talking about how we might need a third shot.
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Post by mimmihopps on Aug 1, 2021 6:46:44 GMT -5
Congrats for getting your second jab, Mean Mrs. Mustard. I'm sorry to hear that you've got side effects this time. Hope you'll feel better tomorrow. I felt tired and a bit fever a day after the first jab. Also 11 days later I got an allergic reaction on my left upper arm around where I got vaccinated. It was itchy first, so I asked my doctor. I got a creme and a medicine for it. Later no itcy, but it took about 2 weeks until the red spot was gone. I didn't feel anything at all after second jab and didn't get a red spot on my arm. It's a shame that there's still so so many people who belive in conspiracy theory and against vaccination. Get the jab/shot when your turn comes! It's not only for yourself, but protect your mum, dad, grand mum, grand dad, brother, sisiter, friends, boyfriend, wife, husband as well.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Aug 1, 2021 12:47:39 GMT -5
My wonderful state of Florida having another outbreak. Have I mentioned I hate living here?
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Post by tiger40 on Aug 1, 2021 13:11:57 GMT -5
I was lucky when I had both my vaccine jabs as I didn't feel ill at all. A third shot however might be different.
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Post by tiger40 on Aug 1, 2021 13:15:46 GMT -5
I read on the BBC news pages earlier that young people will be offered discount takeaways and taxi rides to get their Covid jabs in a bid to boost vaccine uptake. I wonder if it will work.
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Post by girllikeabomb on Aug 1, 2021 15:19:28 GMT -5
For MOST people I know of, if you get the flu reaction it only lasts a couple of days. Drink a lot, it helps! Congrats on getting immunity. I thought, and this is a bit arrogant, that I wouldn't feel a thing just like the first jab. But yeah this is what I heard from others as well, that it only takes 1 or 2 days. I'm not sure about the immunity though. They're already seriously talking about how we might need a third shot. The first jab the body can be like "hmmm, what's this?" but the second it's like "OMG, not this again, red alert." But the good news is that at least your body has let you know it is busy making antibodies so it can handle the real thing. Immunity is not 100% of course, but the chances of you getting sick enough to be on a respirator or losing your life are super, super tiny now, which is kind of exciting. Immunity also might wane over time (usually does for most vaccines) and boosters will be needed but for now, you'll get many months of protection from these two shots. The other thing is that it seems that immunized people can pass Delta variant to the unvaccinated so that's less than perfect. BUT, if you're in a small, crowded unventilated, sweaty room with all vaccinated people, there's the slimmest of chances of anyone getting seriously ill. Night and day difference from a year ago.
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Aug 1, 2021 17:49:39 GMT -5
So weird. I felt absolutely terrible for a couple of hours, but then all of a sudden it was over and I felt normal again.
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Aug 1, 2021 17:55:24 GMT -5
I thought, and this is a bit arrogant, that I wouldn't feel a thing just like the first jab. But yeah this is what I heard from others as well, that it only takes 1 or 2 days. I'm not sure about the immunity though. They're already seriously talking about how we might need a third shot. The first jab the body can be like "hmmm, what's this?" but the second it's like "OMG, not this again, red alert." But the good news is that at least your body has let you know it is busy making antibodies so it can handle the real thing. Immunity is not 100% of course, but the chances of you getting sick enough to be on a respirator or losing your life are super, super tiny now, which is kind of exciting. Immunity also might wane over time (usually does for most vaccines) and boosters will be needed but for now, you'll get many months of protection from these two shots. The other thing is that it seems that immunized people can pass Delta variant to the unvaccinated so that's less than perfect. BUT, if you're in a small, crowded unventilated, sweaty room with all vaccinated people, there's the slimmest of chances of anyone getting seriously ill. Night and day difference from a year ago. Yes, I know that. What I meant was that this probably isn't it, that we'll have to get more shots in the near future. Anyway, I'm probably going to be a bit more loose with the rules now, going to sit closer to my friends and hug whoever I want (granted they're vaccinated of course), because otherwise, what's the point? I hope the whole not having to kiss 3 times on birthdays will stick. I hate forced body contact.
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