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Post by Tales from The Mighty I on Oct 13, 2018 9:48:12 GMT -5
I had always wanted to bring new life back into the track. Not that there wasn't life in the track, but Sardy's mixing had never really did justice to Everybody's On the Run. The same can be said for the rest of the album; if the tracks were given a chance to just breathe, I think the album would've aged better on the ears. I had never noticed what various compression methods could do to an audio file, much less, what playing a track on a CD could really get to sound like. I imagine if Everybody's On the Run were mixed better, and not plodding like the 2011 mix, then this could've made for a more very interesting, strong, more solid sounding debut album for Noel.
But enough; it's your turn to tell me what you think. How did I do? What do you think about this "2018 Mix" versus David Sardy's 2011 Mix.
2018 Mix:
2011 Mix:
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Post by Lennon2217 on Oct 13, 2018 10:11:24 GMT -5
I like the acoustic versions the best.
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Post by popeyebonaparte on Oct 13, 2018 13:49:12 GMT -5
How did you do that?
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Post by matt on Oct 13, 2018 15:47:12 GMT -5
Very very good! Really brought out the clarity to the strings and choir in that giving it that much grander and celestial feel, rather than it all being buried in all that stodge in the original version.
With a good producer, these songs would have sounded a lot better and the cinematic approach Noel had with some of these songs would have come out way way better if he’d gone for a top top professional.
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Post by Manualex on Oct 13, 2018 17:49:37 GMT -5
I can only guess, but using the instrumental strings+choir that is/used to be in NG website/soundcloud and oopssing the album track, then remixing the vocals with the instrumental and the Strings and choir version.
Or something like that, never noticed some of the keyboards in the original one only before of the bridge/instrumental break.
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Post by Tales from The Mighty I on Oct 15, 2018 11:54:26 GMT -5
I can only guess, but using the instrumental strings+choir that is/used to be in NG website/soundcloud and oopssing the album track, then remixing the vocals with the instrumental and the Strings and choir version.
Or something like that, never noticed some of the keyboards in the original one only before of the bridge/instrumental break.
This is half-correct. Basically, I used the album version, the actual instrumental AND the strings & choir track. I've heard other attempts to bring out the choir and strings in other various videos on YouTube, and they never bothered to attempt to bring out the clear sound of Noel's guitar, which I'll add, I can hear now in this 2018 mix. Never heard it before, though only a few times with good headphones did I hear it faintly, but other than that, I never heard the keyboard either until I did this. I used the album version as a basic foundation of this mix. Then I used de-amplification to figure out limiting the wall of sound that is Dave Sardy's production. That giant "stomp" in his mix that he thinks provides clarity but really muddied the track over time? Basically taken care of as soon as I normalised it with de-amplifying it (bringing it to a normal, more gentle volume). After all that, I brought in the choir and strings mix, made sure they didn't collide by adding it in, slightly matching it (offset by 50ms), normalised the volume of the choir and strings and played it back, and at this point you begin to hear just what an improvement it is to have the choir and strings breathe here. Then I turned my attention over to the instrumental, which I had to use twice for clarity purposes in this mix. For this, I used the entire start and finish of the instrumental to incorporate a more 'fresh off the board' mix without hearing the track fading into "Dream On", or more so without having to think "Dream On" will abruptly start like it does listening back to the album. I painstakingly went in to minimize the waveform (stretch and seize wavelengths to match everything), matching both the album version and the instrumental up so I can silence parts of the instrumental I don't want to use (basically almost the entire middle of the instrumental), leaving in the start before the drums roll in from Jeremy and did the same for the end so I can get a more natural ending without once again having to hear that abrupt start from "Dream On". The instrumental was interesting for this, so I had never heard the entire ending of "Everybody's On the Run"... hearing the buzzing off the board in the instrumental was kind of awesome. Then once again added the instrumental, this time leaving in the middle part of the entire track without the beginning and end; matched it all up again, and then took away the bass (-25dB) to bring forth everything you couldn't hear without damaging the track (this can happen when you think adding volume to something will help, which spoiler alert, it doesn't). Cool thing about this is, I was able to link volume to whatever I added or took away, so it was fair to take away the bass so you can hear the keys and Noel's guitar a little more. Also, the drums were given a much more gentle but breathable sound here, which was a surprise. I basically didn't even try to do anything about the drums, couldn't even if I tried, and yet, here they are sounding pretty solid without having too much of Sardy's "stomp". But anyway... Once I was confident this was what I wanted it to sound like, I hit the render, then exported to .wav; bing-bam-boom, here we are with me sharing it with you guys. |
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Oct 15, 2018 13:09:25 GMT -5
It's amazing. Noel should hire you to mix his songs.
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Post by asimarx on Oct 15, 2018 13:16:32 GMT -5
Hello Gaz.
Seriously, this sounds amazing. Thanks for that! I was actually listening to the album on Saturday and was painfully reminded how flat, one dimensional and plodding Sardy's production was. I guess If I Had a Gun could profit massively from such a treatment as well!?! Anyway, this just makes me desire the AA's version even more.
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Post by carlober on Oct 15, 2018 13:17:38 GMT -5
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Post by Tales from The Mighty I on Oct 15, 2018 13:41:11 GMT -5
I could attempt this on the rest of the album, but unfortunately, sources are limited now on where I am able to get the audio. Seeing as I just recently built my new PC, I had only just found out Radio Supernova shut down due to some idiot linking back to them. That's one thing I know these days with DCMA, if you help in finding the source by actually providing the real source, chances are, you're just hurting the source more than you're helping them.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2018 14:03:07 GMT -5
I've only listened to this through a phone speaker but it already sounds better. You've mitigated Noel's thing about having an acoustic guitar far too loud.
Could you do something similar for If I Had a Gun?
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Post by matt on Oct 15, 2018 14:51:24 GMT -5
I've only listened to this through a phone speaker but it already sounds better. You've mitigated Noel's thing about having an acoustic guitar far too loud. Could you do something similar for If I Had a Gun? If I Had A Gun? Hmm, I’d say major rework would need to be done on that abomination of a recording. Like, not just a facelift but a fucking face transplant. Decrease the drums, in fact change the drumming altogether (I’m thinking ala Alan White’s terrific light breezy touch on Cast No Shadow), increase the tempo, strip back all the chug and maybe put it in a higher key. It’s by no means a classic, but if ever there was one song that summed up how bad a producer Sardy is and how much bad judgement Noel has, this is it. It should have been a lovesong, it should have been a paean to true love. Instead, it’s as romantic as a handjob in a bus shelter. |
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Post by asimarx on Oct 15, 2018 14:53:47 GMT -5
I've only listened to this through a phone speaker but it already sounds better. You've mitigated Noel's thing about having an acoustic guitar far too loud. Could you do something similar for If I Had a Gun? If I Had A Gun? Hmm, I’d say major rework would need to be done on that abomination of a recording. Like, not just a facelift but a fucking face transplant. Decrease the drums, in fact change the drumming altogether (I’m thinking ala Alan White’s terrific light breezy touch on Cast No Shadow), increase the tempo, strip back all the chug and maybe put it in a higher key. It’s by no means a classic, but if ever there was one song that summed up how bad a producer Sardy is and how much bad judgement Noel has, this is it. It should have been a lovesong, it should have been a paean to true love. Instead, it’s as romantic as a handjob in a bus shelter. Good Lord. This. |
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Post by Tales from The Mighty I on Oct 15, 2018 15:46:16 GMT -5
If I Had A Gun? Hmm, I’d say major rework would need to be done on that abomination of a recording. Like, not just a facelift but a fucking face transplant. Decrease the drums, in fact change the drumming altogether (I’m thinking ala Alan White’s terrific light breezy touch on Cast No Shadow), increase the tempo, strip back all the chug and maybe put it in a higher key. It’s by no means a classic, but if ever there was one song that summed up how bad a producer Sardy is and how much bad judgement Noel has, this is it. It should have been a lovesong, it should have been a paean to true love. Instead, it’s as romantic as a handjob in a bus shelter. Good Lord. This. . |
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Post by Flashbax on Oct 15, 2018 16:04:56 GMT -5
I've only listened to this through a phone speaker but it already sounds better. You've mitigated Noel's thing about having an acoustic guitar far too loud. Could you do something similar for If I Had a Gun? If I Had A Gun? Hmm, I’d say major rework would need to be done on that abomination of a recording. Like, not just a facelift but a fucking face transplant. Decrease the drums, in fact change the drumming altogether (I’m thinking ala Alan White’s terrific light breezy touch on Cast No Shadow), increase the tempo, strip back all the chug and maybe put it in a higher key. It’s by no means a classic, but if ever there was one song that summed up how bad a producer Sardy is and how much bad judgement Noel has, this is it. It should have been a lovesong, it should have been a paean to true love. Instead, it’s as romantic as a handjob in a bus shelter. This. |
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Post by Nyron Nosworthy on Oct 15, 2018 17:36:08 GMT -5
Everybody's On The Run and (in particular) If I Had A Gun were massive disappointments imo. The leaked soundcheck version of If I Had A Gun was quite haunting, the album version was turgid.
Great work on EOTR
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Post by The Escapist on Oct 16, 2018 2:52:43 GMT -5
The choir is definitely clearer, but I've always thought the problem with EOTR and a lot of High Flying Birds #1 is the rhythm section - the drums seem to drag to song down rather than keep it moving. I can't imagine there's much any of us could do about that though, save to close our eyes and imagine 1995 Alan White behind the cymbals.
If I could request something, do you think you could have a go at meshing the two D'You Know What I Mean? mixes together so that it keeps the strings and bass but also sounds rock 'n' roll? I know how hard that is because I've tried it myself, but you seem to know what you're doing a lot more - d'you reckon it's possible or realistic?
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Post by Tales from The Mighty I on Oct 16, 2018 3:18:46 GMT -5
The choir is definitely clearer, but I've always thought the problem with EOTR and a lot of High Flying Birds #1 is the rhythm section - the drums seem to drag to song down rather than keep it moving. I can't imagine there's much any of us could do about that though, save to close our eyes and imagine 1995 Alan White behind the cymbals. If I could request something, do you think you could have a go at meshing the two D'You Know What I Mean? mixes together so that it keeps the strings and bass but also sounds rock 'n' roll? I know how hard that is because I've tried it myself, but you seem to know what you're doing a lot more - d'you reckon it's possible or realistic? It might be possible. What that track really suffers from is the lack of separation. If you want the most normalized version of 'D'You Know What I Mean?', then I suggest taking a good listen to Noel's 2016 "rethink". |
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Post by Tales from The Mighty I on Oct 16, 2018 3:19:29 GMT -5
On another note (pun intended), I just got done with "(I Wanna Live In a Dream In My) Record Machine"...
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Post by The Escapist on Oct 16, 2018 3:20:10 GMT -5
The choir is definitely clearer, but I've always thought the problem with EOTR and a lot of High Flying Birds #1 is the rhythm section - the drums seem to drag to song down rather than keep it moving. I can't imagine there's much any of us could do about that though, save to close our eyes and imagine 1995 Alan White behind the cymbals. If I could request something, do you think you could have a go at meshing the two D'You Know What I Mean? mixes together so that it keeps the strings and bass but also sounds rock 'n' roll? I know how hard that is because I've tried it myself, but you seem to know what you're doing a lot more - d'you reckon it's possible or realistic? It might be possible. What that track really suffers from is the lack of separation. If you want the most normalized version of 'D'You Know What I Mean?', then I suggest taking a good listen to Noel's 2016 "rethink". That's what I mean, combining the rethink with the original so that you get both the strings and the sense of noise. |
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Post by Tales from The Mighty I on Oct 16, 2018 3:29:55 GMT -5
It might be possible. What that track really suffers from is the lack of separation. If you want the most normalized version of 'D'You Know What I Mean?', then I suggest taking a good listen to Noel's 2016 "rethink". That's what I mean, combining the rethink with the original so that you get both the strings and the sense of noise. I can give it a go... but I honestly cannot promise anything. If it ever makes the light of day, it'll definitely only come from me. |
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Post by The Escapist on Oct 16, 2018 3:35:18 GMT -5
That's what I mean, combining the rethink with the original so that you get both the strings and the sense of noise. I can give it a go... but I honestly cannot promise anything. If it ever makes the light of day, it'll definitely only come from me. Thanks, I know it's a tricky one but it's something that really would sound unreal if done properly. For me the hardest part was the last chorus, where everything is so loud that adding the string clip on top makes it sound all spacey and odd. Maybe I'll just have to hire an orchestra. |
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Post by Tales from The Mighty I on Oct 16, 2018 4:30:00 GMT -5
Here is "(I Wanna Live In a Dream In My) Record Machine" with the correct start (Noel's obligitory tambourine shake like in the demo). The kids running around in the mix, playing and what-not never made no sense to me. I figured I can just go ahead and bury them behind the track, though that is not really my doing, I just left them buried behind the track, and they only ever crop up in the intro (just a trickle), and in the end as well.
Once again, the album version was the basis of the mix. Normalized it to limit the "wall of Sardy". Then I left that as it was. Once again, this track too was a little more gentle now after normalizing. Then I began dragging in the intro of the instrumental, by once again painstakingly minimizing the wavelength to get them to match perfectly, and fair warning, I do usually know how much I offset it by, but this just goes to show, Sardy just buried so much sh*t in the mix. So, I match the instrumental with the album version, silenced what I didn't need in the instrumental, and there we have our clean, tambourine start like in the demo with a much more natural feel to begin the track.
After that, it was basically a job of just stitching the vocals together from a weird program I used to separate the vocals from the track so I would then have had the 'sing-along' version and something that closely resembled a mangled, but somewhat clear 'vocal' stem. The vocal stem is what I mostly focused on though. It provided me with some highs inside Noel's vocals and parts of muffled 'oooos' from the choir and bits of the string section were surprisingly in the mangled vocal stem, which I might add, were not easy to try and bring forth, but I'm so glad I used that weird, ole program to help separate the vocals. I don't even remember the name, I only remember being awake late in the night trying desperately to seperate the vocals and instrumental track apart from each other. But again, I stitched the vocals in by amplifying some parts, normalized some so I wouldn't hear peaking, which happened a lot here.
"(I Wanna Live In a Dream In My) Record Machine" was a pain, but a relief all the same to do and actually get right. Because I always imagined the track was basically Noel actually wanting to live in a dream inside a record machine, listening to the world and taking it all in (hence, "inside my mouth"), being lost in the dreamscape that is music.
The end was a little tricky, and nothing interesting didn't really happen. I have two versions of this mix now and the first one has the album version's ending trebled to hell, mixed in. It did not go over well.
Summary: the "stomps" heard in parts of the track are quite enjoyable to listen to now, including the "thumps". Electric guitar from Noel through-out the track where he played (plucked up and down) is more evident now, much more I should say. And Strangeboy's squealing solo I tried to give emphasis, but I do not really care much for that part. I always wondered where Dave's bongo hittin' went, and it apparently went into the ending for "...Record Machine".
Listen: "2018 Mix" -
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Post by Loaded Silence on Oct 16, 2018 4:33:47 GMT -5
Both sound great, you have a real talent.
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Post by Tongueless Ghost Of Sin on Oct 16, 2018 8:10:41 GMT -5
You've done a great job on both of them, particularly Record Machine. You've made it sound like my pc speakers are actually a proper dedicated stereo system, if that makes sense. But I think the actual recordings of most of the songs on that album are beyond saving. Orchestral parts that should have been electric and vice versa, some songs in too low a key, some too high, drums too plodding all over the place, the wrong tone or the vibe/tempo of the song totally wrong. That album is an unholy mess, which is a shame considering how strong the songs are. I actually think Sardy did a really great job with DOYS and DBTT especially, he's not exactly incompetent so how HFB ended up sounding how it did I have no idea. Every aspect of the recording and production were calamitous. Then on that first tour Noel decided to carry a couple of sub standard musicians (In their roles). Some really odd decisions made around that time. Thankfully now he's got his shit together on those fronts  |
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Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5