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Post by mossy on Aug 30, 2018 6:16:05 GMT -5
What a ridiculous assumption. A more reasonable alternative explanation is that they have a “hide and seek” kinky sex game going on. As foreplay, Debbie has to stand in a corner and count to 30 before she’s allowed to go and find Liam for sexy time. X Kk. I was trying, in my own way, to suggest that the video doesn’t reasonably show that Liam was responsible for her being upset, that she may have already been upset before the clip started. Your alternative explanation sounds much better, hope it was that. x I was taking the piss out of the suggestions that this is some kind of kinkiness. Probably should have used a smiley. I agree with you, she doesn’t look happy at the end of the vid to me. And the most likely explanation is the massive barney she’s just had with Liam. Peace. X
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Post by fartpanic on Aug 30, 2018 7:12:54 GMT -5
Whats the betting that even if theres absolutely no issue when Liam walks out at his next gigs, Dan Chubby Wootton will pretend he come on to a chorus of boos.
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Post by mancraider on Aug 30, 2018 8:06:18 GMT -5
No more drivel from the Sun about this today then? Either story has run out of steam already or maybe legal action behind scenes has started?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2018 8:14:45 GMT -5
No more drivel from the Sun about this today then? Either story has run out of steam already or maybe legal action behind scenes has started? Was a story on Loose Women at lunchtime apparently, I didn’t see it. They were saying police should get involved without Debbie’s complaint.
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Post by mancraider on Aug 30, 2018 8:22:53 GMT -5
No more drivel from the Sun about this today then? Either story has run out of steam already or maybe legal action behind scenes has started? Was a story on Loose Women at lunchtime apparently, I didn’t see it. They were saying police should get involved without Debbie’s complaint. fucking hate that program. Seen them bullying kim woodburn the other day?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2018 8:26:38 GMT -5
Was a story on Loose Women at lunchtime apparently, I didn’t see it. They were saying police should get involved without Debbie’s complaint. fucking hate that program. Seen them bullying kim woodburn the other day? Nope, I hardly watch tv unless it’s sport. Waste of time.
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Post by mancraider on Aug 30, 2018 8:28:24 GMT -5
fucking hate that program. Seen them bullying kim woodburn the other day? Nope, I hardly watch tv unless it’s sport. Waste of time. well when I saw seen, I mean I read about it on Twitter. Haven't actually watched the show in years.
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Post by mossy on Aug 30, 2018 8:33:57 GMT -5
Nope, I hardly watch tv unless it’s sport. Waste of time. well when I saw seen, I mean I read about it on Twitter. Haven't actually watched the show in years. Loose Women is nowhere near as exciting as the title would lead you to believe. What a let down. X
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Post by fartpanic on Aug 30, 2018 8:40:08 GMT -5
well when I saw seen, I mean I read about it on Twitter. Haven't actually watched the show in years. Loose Women is nowhere near as exciting as the title would lead you to believe. What a let down. X If you think thats dissapointing, then you haven't put Four In A Bed on at 8pm.
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blkc
Oasis Roadie
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Post by blkc on Aug 30, 2018 9:27:45 GMT -5
You’ve conveniently only taken half the definition there. It’s information -> indicating -> proposition. The CCTV footage is evidence that could be used in a proposition that Liam was violent. It’s not however conclusive proof. Just like Debbie’s statement is pretty damn good evidence that nothing happened. However, it’s not conclusive proof because victims of abuse or one-off heated arguments may defend their partner. Especially if they’re a multi-millionaire. And an employer. If you genuinely believe CCTV footage isn’t evidence I guess you think all those millions of shops that use it should bin their cameras? Anyway, here’s hoping something more conclusive does come out to prove his innocence beyond doubt. (Footage from another camera, quote from the waiter, quote from the third person who was with them, plausible explanation when Liam is next interviewed, etc) X I answered at 3 am so I apologize if I was unclear ^^ But I wasn't "conveniently" taken half your definition, I was insisting on the words "facts" and "informations", it genuinely seems to me that there was a contradiction, it's not about being right or not ^^ To me facts and informations are things that are certain and can be verified, and in that video, while I totally agree that there is place for suspicion and doubt, I just don't see facts or informations that we can claim for sure. I do understand the "information - indicating - proposition" progression, but I'm just really not sure about what "information" we have in the first place, since it's just unclear. Debbie's statement is an evidence because we know exactly what it is, no matter if what she says is true or not it's a statement, there's no place for interpretation about the content and intention of her statement, it's crystal clear. I just don't think anything is clear in that particular video; that's really this point that made me contradicting you, I don't deny at all that your definition is correct and that I was wrong to think that evidence and proof were the same thing I'm not saying that CCTV can't be an evidence, not at all, it's really about this specific video, it's suspicious, but we don't clearly see or can say what they are doing, so if it's an evidence, it's an evidence of what exactly ? An evidence that "something" happened, I agree, but we don't even know what the "something" is, that's why it doesn't seem appropriate to me to call this specific video an evidence. I also think that's why the story and video didn't reached "serious" medias, the story would have been much more reported if there was a clear evidence in it. Now don't get me wrong, that just how I genuinely see it, I'm not saying that just to contradict you once again, I'm not saying that I can't be wrong about this I do hope that something will clarify the story too, either confirming or denying the accusation, the longer it goes the more people suffer because of it. I do hope he didn't did shit, but I don't deny at all the possibility that he could have done something bad, I just don't know.
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blkc
Oasis Roadie
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Post by blkc on Aug 30, 2018 9:44:47 GMT -5
Also not wanting to step into someone else's argument, I was about to raise the same point you did, Mossy. It may be also a matter of semantics but I don't think the majority of ppl here are accepting the video as "proof of abuse", but to say there is nothing on that video that could lead to suspicion of some degree of 'mistreatment' regarding Liam's attitude towards Debbie, regardless of opinion (or whether you sympathise with Liam or not), is forced. I just find it very amusing to see who's defending this argument and liking those posts. It is quite ironic when it's people that frequently "accuse" others of being biased, regardless the fact that they are very biased themselves. Nevertheless, Peace and love 😎 Hum, I don't know if you're reffering to me, but since you're saying that to someone directly answering to me, I guess you are, so I'll clarify my position ^^ I'm not for one second saying that there is "nothing" on the video, not saying this AT ALL. I'm saying that there is nothing clear enough to prove anything and that's really not the same thing. I don't deny at all that people can doubt while watching it, that it's suspicious, I agree with all of that actually. I know only one thing for sure, that video is UNCLEAR. I don't claim to be sure of nothing myself, I would neither say that he's innocent or guilty. Hope that's clear. ^^ I'm far from being a Liam fanboy and definitely more into Noel musically and personnally since the split, I never idolized him, disagree with him on many things, thought many time that he was an asshole.... I'm not saying I don't like him either, but your description is far from being correct... At the second he's proven guilty, I'm done with him, what do you think ? That I don't mind about violence against women and will blind myself because he's the singer of my favourite band ? I've been impacted very directly by shit like that so believe me I'll have no sympathy or pity for him and I will not think about it for a single second. If I was considering that Liam couldn't be guilty in any way, I wouldn't waste my time here you know, I wouldn't worry about this shit at all. My position is very clear, I don't know what happen, I don't deny any possibility, but I don't see no reason to claim things that can't be proven as facts. How is that biased, please tell me ! Anyway, in the case you weren't referring to me, sorry, but still, criticizing people without naming them is just the best way to lead to confusion ^^ At least when I accuse someone of being biased, I do it directly ^^ I understand if you don't want to enter into an argument, but if you want to criticize people, the least you can do is allowing them to answer, even more in a forum I think, otherwise you're just talking shit in the back of people, and I'm not saying that it was your intention, don't get me wrong Even if you think someone is saying stupid things, he deserves a little bit of respect, we all say stupid things here and there.
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Post by Let It 🩸 on Aug 30, 2018 10:06:54 GMT -5
Only if the context of the incident was of an aggressive nature which is by no means certain. That's not to say it isn't but having gone back and looked at it again, to me it shows little to support either position. No, evidence just means information. Contextless data. Context is not required to call something, such as a CCTV video, evidence. Context is needed if you want to call something proof. For example, a discarded unused contraceptive is not proof that Let It 🩸 got a side chick pregnant. But it could be used in combination with other evidence and context, such as DNA tests, multiple witness testimonies and debauched videos from his phone, to prove so. X Luckily, I'm a virgin, and that scenario could never apply to me. God bless.
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Post by bogaloo on Aug 30, 2018 11:04:05 GMT -5
Also not wanting to step into someone else's argument, I was about to raise the same point you did, Mossy. It may be also a matter of semantics but I don't think the majority of ppl here are accepting the video as "proof of abuse", but to say there is nothing on that video that could lead to suspicion of some degree of 'mistreatment' regarding Liam's attitude towards Debbie, regardless of opinion (or whether you sympathise with Liam or not), is forced. I just find it very amusing to see who's defending this argument and liking those posts. It is quite ironic when it's people that frequently "accuse" others of being biased, regardless the fact that they are very biased themselves. Nevertheless, Peace and love 😎 Hum, I don't know if you're reffering to me, but since you're saying that to someone directly answering to me, I guess you are, so I'll clarify my position ^^ I'm not for one second saying that there is "nothing" on the video, not saying this AT ALL. I'm saying that there is nothing clear enough to prove anything and that's really not the same thing. I don't deny at all that people can doubt while watching it, that it's suspicious, I agree with all of that actually. I know only one thing for sure, that video is UNCLEAR. I don't claim to be sure of nothing myself, I would neither say that he's innocent or guilty. Hope that's clear. ^^ I'm far from being a Liam fanboy and definitely more into Noel musically and personnally since the split, I never idolized him, disagree with him on many things, thought many time that he was an asshole.... I'm not saying I don't like him either, but your description is far from being correct... At the second he's proven guilty, I'm done with him, what do you think ? That I don't mind about violence against women and will blind myself because he's the singer of my favourite band ? I've been impacted very directly by shit like that so believe me I'll have no sympathy or pity for him and I will not think about it for a single second. If I was considering that Liam couldn't be guilty in any way, I wouldn't waste my time here you know, I wouldn't worry about this shit at all. My position is very clear, I don't know what happen, I don't deny any possibility, but I don't see no reason to claim things that can't be proven as facts. How is that biased, please tell me ! Anyway, in the case you weren't referring to me, sorry, but still, criticizing people without naming them is just the best way to lead to confusion ^^ At least when I accuse someone of being biased, I do it directly ^^ I understand if you don't want to enter into an argument, but if you want to criticize people, the least you can do is allowing them to answer, even more in a forum I think, otherwise you're just talking shit in the back of people, and I'm not saying that it was your intention, don't get me wrong Even if you think someone is saying stupid things, he deserves a little bit of respect, we all say stupid things here and there. Sorry!! I most certainly didn't mean you. 🤗 You are right, I should have directed it more, I think I may have corrected it since, though. I didn't realise you could be think I was directing it towards you. I can understand your point of view regarding this case, I'd just add the semantic twitches Mossy did, and agree with what you said about Noel as well.
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Post by thomaslivesforever on Aug 30, 2018 12:07:27 GMT -5
You clearly didn't read my post. I read it. Just because someone claims to be trying to be unbiased doesn't make that person unbiased, sometimes it's not even a conscious mechanism. Anyway, If you can't see what I mean, don't bother. I am sorry, it is still my opinion based on what seem to me to be previous patterns of response. I accept you see it differently, while not necessarily agreeing with you. Well you can hold me to whatever standard you like. I won't do the same to you even if your own "previous patterns of response" have accurately predicted your contributions to this thread.
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Post by bogaloo on Aug 30, 2018 12:18:07 GMT -5
I read it. Just because someone claims to be trying to be unbiased doesn't make that person unbiased, sometimes it's not even a conscious mechanism. Anyway, If you can't see what I mean, don't bother. I am sorry, it is still my opinion based on what seem to me to be previous patterns of response. I accept you see it differently, while not necessarily agreeing with you. Well you can hold me to whatever standard you like. I won't do the same to you even if your own "previous patterns of response" have accurately predicted your contributions to this thread. As I have predicted yours. So let's agree to disagree. X
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blkc
Oasis Roadie
Posts: 105
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Post by blkc on Aug 30, 2018 13:08:25 GMT -5
Sorry!! I most certainly didn't mean you. 🤗 You are right, I should have directed it more, I think I may have corrected it since, though. I didn't realise you could be think I was directing it towards you. I can understand your point of view regarding this case, I'd just add the semantic twitches Mossy did, and agree with what you said about Noel as well. Oh my bad then ^^ I wasn't completely sure that you were directing it to me, but since english is not my first language I just thought that I could have been unclear or give a wrong impression without realizing it or something like that, and since it was under my post, I had a doubt ^^ But I must say I had no proof that it was directing to me, so I was definitely wrong to react so quickly I also have to say that I reacted a little bit too much strongly, I could have resumed my point a little bit so I apologize, nothing personal against you, I firstly wanted to make sure I wasn't misunderstood.
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Post by matt on Aug 30, 2018 14:54:45 GMT -5
The S*n, Daily Mail, Dan Wooton, whatever - their reputations precede them and that is how they will be judged; they are nothing but shit stained sewer rats. For that reason, we’re all best to ignore it.
Let Liam and Debbie settle things over their squabble privately, as they’d most definitely want.
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Post by fartpanic on Aug 30, 2018 16:23:22 GMT -5
The S*n, Daily Mail, Dan Wooton, whatever - their reputations precede them and that is how they will be judged; they are nothing but shit stained sewer rats. For that reason, we’re all best to ignore it. Let Liam and Debbie settle things over their squabble for themselves privately, as they’d most definitely want. Totally agree in an ideal world any level headed person would do exactly that. But theres more to it than that. Its the long term effect this has on Liam's career. Like i alluded to earlier in the thread, im incredibly surprised this has gone pretty much unnoticed in terms of "trending" on any social media. I expected to wake up to this plastered over every platform imaginable. But this has stayed pretty much just around the tabloids (albeit that is still potentially damaging enough). I dont know, it just doesnt feel like they'll stop at this. There seems to be more to come (no matter how desperate they get). I hope theres another statement or interview before the upcoming gigs.
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Post by uboasis on Aug 30, 2018 22:17:57 GMT -5
If you like a good conspiracy theory check this out. Anonymous account joined twitter in June, posted nothing, liked nothing until an hour ago and suddenly on a crusade to bring Liam Gallagher to justice. Fake account from The Sun to add more tension? Don't know if it was mentioned but it seems all her tweets are gone.
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Post by mancraider on Aug 31, 2018 1:56:12 GMT -5
Fake account from The Sun to add more tension? Don't know if it was mentioned but it seems all her tweets are gone. it was an idiot off here behind it apparantly. Glad it's gone.
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Post by freddy838 on Aug 31, 2018 2:20:28 GMT -5
Don't know if it was mentioned but it seems all her tweets are gone. it was an idiot off here behind it apparantly. Glad it's gone. That doesn't exactly narrow it down very much. Probably one of Tonethestone's creations
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Post by thomaslivesforever on Aug 31, 2018 2:31:42 GMT -5
Don't know if it was mentioned but it seems all her tweets are gone. it was an idiot off here behind it apparantly. Glad it's gone. Someone off here? Embarrassing.
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Post by RocketMan on Aug 31, 2018 4:28:19 GMT -5
No, evidence just means information. Contextless data. Context is not required to call something, such as a CCTV video, evidence. Context is needed if you want to call something proof. For example, a discarded unused contraceptive is not proof that Let It 🩸 got a side chick pregnant. But it could be used in combination with other evidence and context, such as DNA tests, multiple witness testimonies and debauched videos from his phone, to prove so. X Luckily, I'm a virgin, and that scenario could never apply to me. God bless. you wait for the special one, right? the one who knows how to handle deflated balls? thats cute
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Post by mossy on Aug 31, 2018 4:33:01 GMT -5
Fake account from The Sun to add more tension? Wouldn’t be at all surprised if The Sun used twitter accounts in this way to try and goad quotes out of celebs or their associates. Slight tangent, but on a similar theme, here’s an interesting article from Craig Murray on how an organisation under the name “Robert Cross” has been editing Wikipedia for over a decade to put right wing articles/individuals in a more favourable light and to discredit left wing articles/individuals. www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/05/the-philip-cross-affair/X
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Post by mancraider on Aug 31, 2018 4:54:31 GMT -5
Fake account from The Sun to add more tension? Wouldn’t be at all surprised if The Sun used twitter accounts in this way to try and goad quotes out of celebs or their associates. Slight tangent, but on a similar theme, here’s an interesting article from Craig Murray on how an organisation under the name “Robert Cross” has been editing Wikipedia for over a decade to put right wing articles/individuals in a more favourable light and to discredit left wing articles/individuals. www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/05/the-philip-cross-affair/X Yeah I read abut that. Been highly active in the smearing of Corbyn and the left in general in recent years. Just goes to show how much 'news' that influences public opinion is actually completely fake. You can't trust anything you read.
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