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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 8:39:04 GMT -5
So... I typed out a very long and well thought out treatise on the merits of Heathen Chemistry, complete with tables and such, then somehow hit the wrong key while typing the closing comments and... poof. It's gone. Here is the condensed/abridged version of that treatise...
This album is much maligned by the forum and I feel it deserves a second look. don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing that Heathen Chemistry should be placed next to Definitely Maybe or Morning Glory as a seminal work of rock, but rather that the album in question is not any worse than anything in the back half of Oasis catalogue. For the sake of this argument, I will ignore SOTSOG as this record is the bridge between early-Oasis and late-Oasis. You know... first 3 albums, SOTSOG, last 3 albums. Now on to the case for Heathen Chemistry:
1) Tracks. Take a quick glance thru the tracklistings of the last 3 albums and you'll find each has 11 tracks (I'm excluding The Cage) consisting of on average 4-5 Good tunes, 3-4 average tunes, 2-3 crap tunes. How you break down the albums is up to you, but it's hard to argue that this analysis is off the mark, right? Essentially, the 3 albums have a very similar structure... none of them could be considered "classic" albums.
If you count the b-sides, then Heathen Chemistry probably has the strongest set of tunes of the last 3 albums.
2) Singles. Heathen Chemistry arguably spawned the best group of singles of any late era Oasis release. five tracks in total that all charted in the top 3 in the UK, including the first non-Noel penned single Songbird. Additionally, Stop Crying Your Heart Out reached a level of success in the US that no single post Morning Glory had achieved. It has been used in a number of both film and television projects over the years and is the track that a non-fan might recognize.
3) A New Generation. After the unquestioned debacle of the SOTSOG era, Oasis was in a place where their fans had aged and they were no longer the darlings of the music scene. Heathen Chemistry, and it's solid singles, introduced them to a new generation of fans and wetted the appetite for what would be their biggest success post-1998, Don't Believe The Truth. In this way, Heathen Chemistry is akin to Definitely Maybe in setting up what came after it. Albeit to a much lesser extent. Allowing the follow up album to be well received and successful. Without Heathen Chemistry I dare say that the two albums that followed may not even exist.
4) The Tour. The tour that accompanied this album might well be the best tour of the band's career. It came at a time of great optimism, had a great set list mostly, and the band was on top of their game musically. If you need some shows to reference from this era, please ask those most knowledgeable on the subject.
In summary... Again, I'm not saying Heathen Chemistry is a masterpiece, far from it, but the lampooning that it receives around here seems a bit unwarranted considering all that the album helped to achieve for the band. To me, it's no worse off than Don't Believe The Truth or Dig Out Your Soul, both of which contain some truly appalling pieces of music.
Maybe we can all give Heathen Chemistry another chance, even if that means skipping tracks 7 & 8.
Carry on.
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Post by tomlivesforever on Aug 3, 2016 9:01:10 GMT -5
The optimism around the record at the time was more to do with critics and fans alike being happy that it wasn't a SOTSOG part two. It was a return to the more traditional sound of Oasis but on closer inspection its paper thin. For me there is three terrible songs on it(PAITM, FON and SIL), two average singles (HT and LBL) one pointless instrumental, some shite b-sides and all round poor production.
The tour and its setlist were very good.
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Post by idleroses on Aug 3, 2016 9:03:25 GMT -5
I saw them on that tour and they smashed it both nights. A great setlist and strong energy coming from the band.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Aug 3, 2016 10:19:05 GMT -5
Heathen Chemistry represents everything I didn't want from Oasis in 2002. Noel was a coward to abandon the sonic ideas on SOTSOG. He just needed better songs to make the concept work.
I hardly ever listen to HC as a complete album. I cherry pick a few songs for the iPhone (Hindu Times, Songbird, Little By Little, SCYHO, SIL).
This album might be their worst recording. So many songs butchered. For example The Hindu Times, Born On A Different Cloud. The demo of THT towers over the studio version. At least the ideas of the demo are stronger. Cooler lyrics, awesome drunk loop. Feels like Noel did a lay up conservative approach to the final product. BOADC had a cool vibe that is ruined by poor Liam vocals and a shoddy production job. I'd kill to hear that with a Spike Stent treatment from SOTSOG.
Probably All In My Mind.......................I don't know what the fuck that was supposed to be. Yikes!
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Post by dadrocker on Aug 3, 2016 10:20:54 GMT -5
To me HIABP is the worst Oasis song there is. It's like Gem came up with a parody Oasis song and they actually fucked used it. It's like Brick by brick from the Arctics. THIS IS WHAT B-SIDES ARE FOR YOU FUCKS.
Banana skin feet? Fuck off.
PAITM is ten times better than that piece of trash.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Aug 3, 2016 10:22:59 GMT -5
To me HIABP is the worst Oasis song there is. It's like Gem came up with a parody Oasis song and they actually fucked used it. It's like Brick by brick from the Arctics. THIS IS WHAT B-SIDES ARE FOR YOU FUCKS. Banana skin feet? Fuck off. PAITM is ten times better than that piece of trash. At least Gem made some extra bucks off Victoria's Secret in that commercial. Noel said he got like $250K. Good for him. |
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Post by dadrocker on Aug 3, 2016 10:25:50 GMT -5
To me HIABP is the worst Oasis song there is. It's like Gem came up with a parody Oasis song and they actually fucked used it. It's like Brick by brick from the Arctics. THIS IS WHAT B-SIDES ARE FOR YOU FUCKS. Banana skin feet? Fuck off. PAITM is ten times better than that piece of trash. At least Gem made some extra bucks off Victoria's Secret in that commercial. Noel said he got like $250K. Good for him. Seriously? That's great. Good for Gem. I really dig him but that tune is just shit. Wonder how much Noel got for AT&T using All Around the World. |
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Post by dadrocker on Aug 3, 2016 10:53:35 GMT -5
Also, does anyone remember when HC leaked and LBL and SYCHO were switched? Was that ever official or just a screw up with the leak?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 12:14:04 GMT -5
dadrocker, Lennon2217I agree with the majority of what you two say. To me the biggest problem with HC is that it doesn't feel like one album, but more like a playlist of random tracks. This is no doubt a result of them doing it themselves without an outside producer. I still maintain that outside of A Quick Peep, PAITM, and maybe HIABP... this record has some really great tunes.
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Post by nutsngum on Aug 3, 2016 12:24:23 GMT -5
Quite possibly a last-minute switch. I think Little By Little had a different ending, too? And of course there was Better Man...
I say last-minute, it was leaked 3 months before release!
It's definitely not held up well for me - let's go song-by-song.
1) The Hindu Times - Quite catchy, ripped off riff from the Stereophonics. Horrific production, I can hear Noel's guitar strums louder than the drums!!!
At least the demo had that great drum loop.
Liam's voice is really bad on this, and auto-tuned.
Does sound like they polished a turd to be a "hit single". Which it was, because it was Oasis!
When the song was debuted the previous October most fans were hoping that The Hindu Times & Hung in a Bad Place would be b-sides!
2) Force Of Nature - Dreary, dreary Noel. Find it incredibly hard to make it all the way through this track. I get he's going for the 70's thing here, but it really doesn't work - sticking lo-fi drums and then everything else really expensively recorded does not a classic make.
Only good bit is his vocal at the end of the penultimate last chorus.
3) Hung in a Bad Place - Gem's first contribution. The tune is ALRIGHT - not a bad chorus. The lyrics are mental. Cringeworthy stuff.
4) Stop Crying Your Heart Out - Liam's best vocal on the album. A good pop song. First 1 minute 30 is very good. Gets VERY dreary when Alan comes in. Still, a deserving hit single
5) Songbird - I must confess this has never been one of my favourites. I feel like people give it more credit because Liam wrote it and it wasn't Little James. Very simple melody. No bridge, no middle 8, just some wanky Rod Stewart piano ending. Not having it.
6) Little By Little - Fucks sake Noel. Are you trying to put me to sleep? It's got quite a good chorus. Again, production is woeful. Sludgey guitars, too many of them.
7) A Quick Peep - Don't get the hate. It's a minute long. Quite a nice riff.
8) Probably All in the Mind - Just...incredibly uninspired songwriting. Would have been alright as a b-side. Not a good vocal. Only things I can say about this song is that it takes that harp effect from the Put Yer Money Where Yer Mouth is demo, and that it was due to be played at the Royal Albert Hall gig in 2002 but didn't make it.
9) She is Love - That organ is terrible. Don't mind the verse, very poor chorus. Noel loves it so much because of the lyrics and what it means to him, I guess. Very forgetful.
10) Born on a Different Cloud - At the time, I really liked it. Now....
The intro is good. The Lennon double tracked vocals are a bit much for me.
The bridge is laughably out of place. Almost respect him for doing that as can't imagine many songwriters doing it. Shows his naivity I suppose.
Then there's the George Harrison rip-off solo. and it just goes on and on and on and on.....
Much like this post.
11) Better Man - Again, used to quite like this song. B-side quality, most probably. Doesn't seem like a finished song, in the same way Soldier On doesn't.
Preferred the leaked outro to this.
12) The Cage - WHY put this on record? Leave it in the studio.
I saw them three times on that tour. Finsbury Park and twice in Birmingham.
They were definitely worse than the previous year - and whist the setlist was good for the die-hard (Columbia, DYKWIM, Some Might Say, Hello...), it contained about a million boring new album songs. AND they ended up dropping Gas Panic. Shambles. Thought Liam's voice was in really poor form around this time, too. Although nowhere near as bad as 2003 onwards!
Save from a gig in Lyon (i think?), it was a sign his voice would never recover.
Never saw Oasis live again after that tour. I don't regret my decision.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 12:27:42 GMT -5
as Ive said EP with a bundle of shit tacked on.
swap she is love for born on a different cloud on the single and your not missing anything by only buying the singles.
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Post by themanwithnoname on Aug 3, 2016 12:38:51 GMT -5
I saw them at Finsbury Park (average) and Nottingham (shit).
Vowed not to go and see them again after that but did go to Liverpool in 2008 which was pretty average too.
Heathen Chemistry's singles are decent but the rest is really uninspired. It felt like the record which set the post-2000 template.
They became a band which kind of spewed out generic rock tunes that sounded vaguely like someone else rather than having a trademark Oasis sound to them, other than Liam's voice.
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Post by powerage09 on Aug 3, 2016 13:17:37 GMT -5
I really like Heathen Chemistry, thought the Finsbury Park gig was mental. Wasn't quite up there with Wembley 2000 and Barrowlands 2001 but still, great setlist. Shame it pissed it down all day.
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Post by Jack on Aug 3, 2016 13:56:25 GMT -5
I hate being the only one who really likes this album. I only dislike 'She Is Love'. And why so much hate for 'The Cage'? Its a fuckin awesome instrumental. Great b-sides too. My only problem with the album, is that its in need of a decent remaster.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 14:14:44 GMT -5
I don't understand A Quick Peep hate. Do you also hate Swamp Song in Morning Glory?
Well, okay there isn't hate in this thread but I'm sure people have slagged it in other threads.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Aug 3, 2016 14:16:33 GMT -5
I hate being the only one who really likes this album. I only dislike 'She Is Love'. And why so much hate for 'The Cage'? Its a fuckin awesome instrumental. Great b-sides too. My only problem with the album, is that its in need of a decent remaster.
To build a barricade...."The Cage is a decent instrumental but does it really need to be 19 minutes after "Better Man" ends? That's why it seems lost in the sands of time. You'd have to take the "Better Man" track, splice it, cut out The Cage and export it to make a single concise MP3 of it. Too much work. Swamp Song and Fuckin' In The Bushes piss all over it.  |
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Post by Lennon2217 on Aug 3, 2016 14:18:31 GMT -5
dadrocker, Lennon2217I agree with the majority of what you two say. To me the biggest problem with HC is that it doesn't feel like one album, but more like a playlist of random tracks. This is no doubt a result of them doing it themselves without an outside producer. I still maintain that outside of A Quick Peep, PAITM, and maybe HIABP... this record has some really great tunes. I dig the early Pink Floyd vibes of the song. Noel said there was a 5 minute plus version of this song. They should have released that on the album. What's the point of a 50 second version? Nothing. |
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Aug 3, 2016 14:35:12 GMT -5
Used to like Stop Crying Your Heart Out and Little By Little a lot, but I think they're both kind of cheesy. Not bad though.
The Hindu Times demo has a better sound, the final version has better lyrics.
Don't mind She Is Love and Born On A Different Cloud. I really like the latter one, but Liam sounds like he's on the toilet trying to shit and struggling. I don't mind Force Of Nature either.
Hung In A Bad Place and Better Man are awful.
Songbird is overrated.
What else is there except for AQP and The Cage? Nothing? Good.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 14:42:21 GMT -5
I dont really see the hype for finsbury, see it quite often that people want it to be released but theres much better gigs out there imo, Liams in full shout mode at finsbury.
lets hear it for lyon, 90s Liam coming through.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 14:47:16 GMT -5
dadrocker, Lennon2217I agree with the majority of what you two say. To me the biggest problem with HC is that it doesn't feel like one album, but more like a playlist of random tracks. This is no doubt a result of them doing it themselves without an outside producer. I still maintain that outside of A Quick Peep, PAITM, and maybe HIABP... this record has some really great tunes. I dig the early Pink Floyd vibes of the song. Noel said there was a 5 minute plus version of this song. They should have released that on the album. What's the point of a 50 second version? Nothing. I would gladly listen to a 5 minute version of this song if it was a b-side. It has no place on a proper album. What is with all the instrumentals in Oasis catalogue? Darn near a full album worth of them. Swamp Song, AATW (Reprise), FITB, The Cage, A Quick Peep... I know I'm forgetting a couple. |
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Post by Lennon2217 on Aug 3, 2016 14:51:51 GMT -5
I dont really see the hype for finsbury, see it quite often that people want it to be released but theres much better gigs out there imo, Liams in full shout mode at finsbury. lets hear it for lyon, 90s Liam coming through. If I had to rank post 2000 tours it would be....... 1) DOYS - Love the setlists despite Ain't Got Muffins!!! 2) SOTSOG - Liam still sounding as strong as ever. Their first Greatest Hits style tour. 3) DBTT - Fun vibes, MSG sell out, semi Oasis cool resurgence. 4) HC - Cool to have Soundtrack of Our Lives opening on US tour. 5) Brotherly Love - What was even the point? Opening for the Black Crowes? Are you kidding me??? Oasis fans out numbered Crowes fans 2 to 1. Plus no record to promote. Just seemed strange but I'm glad I saw them that summer. Best part was Noel mentioning the unknown Strokes prior to the NJ gig and me checking them out, thus becoming obsessed with them for 3 years. |
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Aug 3, 2016 14:53:02 GMT -5
HC is easily the best album post Oasis 2000, with SOTSOG a close second. The B sides are also the best from this period too.
DBTT and DOYS are just awful in comparison.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 14:55:32 GMT -5
HC is easily the best album post Oasis 2000, with SOTSOG a close second. The B sides are also the best from this period too. DBTT and DOYS are just awful in comparison.   |
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Aug 3, 2016 15:00:05 GMT -5
The Cage is so pointless. Who'd want to sit through all of Better Man, let alone wait for 20 minuted to hear it?
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Post by Jack on Aug 3, 2016 15:00:10 GMT -5
I hate being the only one who really likes this album. I only dislike 'She Is Love'. And why so much hate for 'The Cage'? Its a fuckin awesome instrumental. Great b-sides too. My only problem with the album, is that its in need of a decent remaster.
To build a barricade...."The Cage is a decent instrumental but does it really need to be 19 minutes after "Better Man" ends? That's why it seems lost in the sands of time. You'd have to take the "Better Man" track, splice it, cut out The Cage and export it to make a single concise MP3 of it. Too much work. Swamp Song and Fuckin' In The Bushes piss all over it. That's exactly what I've done, and made a separate mp3 of it.  I think the Songbird demo version is better than the album version too. |
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Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5