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Post by glider on Oct 24, 2016 9:05:19 GMT -5
Born on a Different Cloud is Liam's most overrated song. Nahh, Boy With The Blues. I'll agree that Boy With The Blues isn't that great either, but Songbird is his most overrated and Oasis' most overrated tune post-BHN. |
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Post by spaneli on Oct 24, 2016 9:07:54 GMT -5
Nahh, Boy With The Blues. I'll agree that Boy With The Blues isn't that great either, but Songbird is his most overrated and Oasis' most overrated tune post-BHN. You don't like clap tracks?  But seriously, it's a nice track. |
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Oct 24, 2016 9:08:31 GMT -5
Let's take a gander at the last 4 tracks of late era Oasis albums... Heathen Chemistry
(Probably) All In The Mind
She Is Love
Born On A Different Cloud
Better Man | Don't Believe The Truth
Part Of The Queue
Keep The Dream Alive
A Bell Will Ring
Let There Be Love | Dig Out Your Soul
To Be Where There's Life
Aint Got Muffins
The Nature of Reality
Soldier On |
Thoughts? For me, DOYS has the worst two tracks (Muffins, Reality) found here by a wide margin. Your chart from best to worst: Don't Believe the Truth >>>> Dig Out Yer Soul >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Heathen Chemistry |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2016 9:10:00 GMT -5
Is that not exactly what Soldier On is? They found the late night jam track collecting dust somewhere and decide it was fit for the album. Maybe. I think it's better conceived. I think Better Man doesn't really have a plan. Its plan is to just start. But Soldier On in terms of arrangement and production feels better thought out, not overly long, not trying to do too much. It knows what it is, and works within it, and doesn't overstay its welcome. Better Man is a hot mess. There are things going on inside of it, I don't know how or why they thought of it. It's just not very well thought out. If Soldier On is "better conceived" and "doesn't over stay it's welcome" in you mind, then there is nothing I can say to argue that. ----- The song was literally a late night piss take that they put on a album. It's the laziest song in the Oasis cannon in my opinion. ----- thanks to all. The banter in this thread has been a welcomed addition to my slow morning. |
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Post by glider on Oct 24, 2016 9:13:19 GMT -5
I'll agree that Boy With The Blues isn't that great either, but Songbird is his most overrated and Oasis' most overrated tune post-BHN. You don't like clap tracks? But seriously, it's a nice track. It's never done anything for me. Foreshadowed the cheesy songwriting seen on DGSS. |
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Post by freddy838 on Oct 24, 2016 9:17:28 GMT -5
Soldier On is utter dogshit, at least Better Man has a riff in it and the live/demo outro is fantastic. Soldier On has no redeeming features whatsoever, just the same plod throughout with possibly Liam's most predictable lyrics ever and probably his worst vocal on the album. Dogshit.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2016 9:17:46 GMT -5
You don't like clap tracks? But seriously, it's a nice track. It's never done anything for me. Foreshadowed the cheesy songwriting seen on DGSS. Simplicity is only brilliance because the bar was set sooooo low for Liam's songwriting ability. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2016 9:18:31 GMT -5
I dont see it as Noel sabotaging the album because Noels stuff is the strongest stuff on it, its Gem and andys piles of shit that stink out the 2nd half, as I said in another thread, had I believe in all been in place of aint got nothin, Liams contributions would be solid all round and a good mix with Noels stuff.
soldier on is alright and closes the album, its fine, boy with the blues mightve been stronger.
maybe Noels idea of wanting to let everyone have at least one track on the album is more the problem, sit down and tell andy his song is shit and it cant be used, dont just stick it on there for the sake of it.
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Post by Manualex on Oct 24, 2016 9:19:43 GMT -5
That's kinda of the problem. I've never played it on guitar, but it feels more like a good jam session rather than an actually good song. The songwriting is eh. Find a groove, put some "yeaaaaas" and "ahhhhhhhs" and we're good. Fairly lazy in that department. Is that not exactly what Soldier On is? They found the late night jam track collecting dust somewhere and decide it was fit for the album. You can Thank the Coral(corrals?) For that |
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Post by glider on Oct 24, 2016 9:21:19 GMT -5
What exactly did Noel see in Andy when getting him on board with the band? Plus as a bassist? guigsysEstring? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2016 9:22:08 GMT -5
I dont see it as Noel sabotaging the album because Noels stuff is the strongest stuff on it, its Gem and andys piles of shit that stink out the 2nd half, as I said in another thread, had I believe in all been in place of aint got nothin, Liams contributions would be solid all round and a good mix with Noels stuff. soldier on is alright and closes the album, its fine, boy with the blues mightve been stronger. maybe Noels idea of wanting to let everyone have at least one track on the album is more the problem, sit down and tell andy his song is shit and it cant be used, dont just stick it on there for the sake of it. Bands don't function well as democracy's. |
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Oct 24, 2016 9:34:11 GMT -5
What exactly did Noel see in Andy when getting him on board with the band? Plus as a bassist? guigsysEstring? Listen to Vapour Trail by Ride. I would hire anyone who wrote something like that immediately for my band. |
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Oct 24, 2016 9:37:17 GMT -5
That's kinda of the problem. I've never played it on guitar, but it feels more like a good jam session rather than an actually good song. The songwriting is eh. Find a groove, put some "yeaaaaas" and "ahhhhhhhs" and we're good. Fairly lazy in that department. Is that not exactly what Soldier On is? They found the late night jam track collecting dust somewhere and decide it was fit for the album. Is that not exactly what most of Liam's songs are? He has an idea, sometimes good, sometimes...not so much, that goes on for a few minutes and then it sounds like he doesn't really know what to do with it and where it should go. |
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Post by glider on Oct 24, 2016 9:45:41 GMT -5
What exactly did Noel see in Andy when getting him on board with the band? Plus as a bassist? guigsysEstring ? Listen to Vapour Trail by Ride. I would hire anyone who wrote something like that immediately for my band.Well I probably listened to it over 50 times. The bold I emphasized in your post is the problem with most older bands with a newer lineup. They expect guys like Bell to write tracks just as good as Vapour Trail, when this is never a reality and never the case. Andy's best songwriting is in a completely different genre than Oasis, and if Oasis wanted to cater to Bell's songwriting style, they'd have to adopt a completely new indentity. Going through the 2000s as a shell of their former selves and trying to revive Britpop, along with a shoegaze songwriter, was a waste of resources. |
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Post by guigsysEstring on Oct 24, 2016 9:47:16 GMT -5
What exactly did Noel see in Andy when getting him on board with the band? Plus as a bassist? guigsysEstring ? Listen to Vapour Trail by Ride. I would hire anyone who wrote something like that immediately for my band. I agree with Vapour Trail but in between that and Oasis came Carnival of Light, Tarantula and Hurricane #1 so..... glider It was actually Liam who suggested Andy Bell as a bassist to Noel having heard on XFM IIRC that Andy had been tapped up to join Gay Dad, a short lived indie band formed by music journalist turned musician Cliff Jones. I think it was a much someone they knew rather like Gem Archer as much as anything else, with Heavy Stereo and Ride both having been signed to Creation Records and supporting Oasis at various points in their respective careers. I think the idea of having people they knew can't be understated when looking at the choices they made as replacements, much as I personally disagree with them. The band had lost two founding members and word had got back to them although it wasn't officially announced until a little later in 1999 that Alan McGee and Dick Green had negotiated with Sony Music Entertainment to wind up Creation Records six months earlier than the original deal was supposed to run, meaning they would have to find a new label or (as happened) licence themselves from Sony and set up their own label with distribution. The loss of Creation, Bonehead, Guigsy and other people from their original inner circle of success from 1993 through to 1998 must have been disorientating as on the one hand the brothers were fronting a multi million selling band which although had already experienced a backlash re: Be Here Now that LP was very much pre-SOTSOG seen as a blip, and so there was still expectation on a fourth LP even if the hype had disappeared. On the other hand however a lot the familiar faces surrounding them in good and more crucially bad times had gone, and so bringing in two people they at least knew was probably seen as a safe option. I am not privy to Oasis inner workings as a business so I don't know how much truth is in the rumour that Gem and Andy were only hired on contracts to complete the SOTSOG promotional cycle tour, although it has been said that it was Gem especially who chipped away at Noel after the 2000 summer shows with demos and suggestions of touring as Noel beforehand was supposedly contemplating going it alone even back then. It's a tricky one because for me the songs they brought to Oasis by and large were not particularly inspired or forward thinking, but at the same time would David Potts and Julian Taylor (my preferences) have been able to keep it going with the Noel walkout or talk him into making a fifth album after that tour with it's very prominent low points? Any other time I would have gone for my preferences but I have to concede in light of the SOTSOG tour events as people Gem and Andy may well have been the best men for the job. |
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Oct 24, 2016 10:01:46 GMT -5
Oasis 2000-2009 was a hotbed of bad decisions, broken promises, crooked democracy, self-sabotage, and half-baked effort. Much like the United States government these days. This is now my Facebook status. Feel honored. |
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Post by guigsysEstring on Oct 24, 2016 10:07:57 GMT -5
That's kinda of the problem. I've never played it on guitar, but it feels more like a good jam session rather than an actually good song. The songwriting is eh. Find a groove, put some "yeaaaaas" and "ahhhhhhhs" and we're good. Fairly lazy in that department. Is that not exactly what Soldier On is? They found the late night jam track collecting dust somewhere and decide it was fit for the album. It was The Coral who found it and told Noel it was a "boss tune", the band themselves according to Andy Bell had forgotten about it  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2016 10:18:11 GMT -5
Listen to Vapour Trail by Ride. I would hire anyone who wrote something like that immediately for my band. I agree with Vapour Trail but in between that and Oasis came Carnival of Light, Tarantula and Hurricane #1 so..... glider It was actually Liam who suggested Andy Bell as a bassist to Noel having heard on XFM IIRC that Andy had been tapped up to join Gay Dad, a short lived indie band formed by music journalist turned musician Cliff Jones. I think it was a much someone they knew rather like Gem Archer as much as anything else, with Heavy Stereo and Ride both having been signed to Creation Records and supporting Oasis at various points in their respective careers. I think the idea of having people they knew can't be understated when looking at the choices they made as replacements, much as I personally disagree with them. The band had lost two founding members and word had got back to them although it wasn't officially announced until a little later in 1999 that Alan McGee and Dick Green had negotiated with Sony Music Entertainment to wind up Creation Records six months earlier than the original deal was supposed to run, meaning they would have to find a new label or (as happened) licence themselves from Sony and set up their own label with distribution. The loss of Creation, Bonehead, Guigsy and other people from their original inner circle of success from 1993 through to 1998 must have been disorientating as on the one hand the brothers were fronting a multi million selling band which although had already experienced a backlash re: Be Here Now that LP was very much pre-SOTSOG seen as a blip, and so there was still expectation on a fourth LP even if the hype had disappeared. On the other hand however a lot the familiar faces surrounding them in good and more crucially bad times had gone, and so bringing in two people they at least knew was probably seen as a safe option. I am not privy to Oasis inner workings as a business so I don't know how much truth is in the rumour that Gem and Andy were only hired on contracts to complete the SOTSOG promotional cycle tour, although it has been said that it was Gem especially who chipped away at Noel after the 2000 summer shows with demos and suggestions of touring as Noel beforehand was supposedly contemplating going it alone even back then. It's a tricky one because for me the songs they brought to Oasis by and large were not particularly inspired or forward thinking, but at the same time would David Potts and Julian Taylor (my preferences) have been able to keep it going with the Noel walkout or talk him into making a fifth album after that tour with it's very prominent low points? Any other time I would have gone for my preferences but I have to concede in light of the SOTSOG tour events as people Gem and Andy may well have been the best men for the job. Should have walked after Knebworth. |
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Post by Manualex on Oct 24, 2016 10:28:00 GMT -5
If Noel did sabotage DOYS then HC would be like an Holocaust.
Andy did write Step Into My World in 1997/8 and that was something like Oasis that was great. Shame that the democracy only worked in DBTT.
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Oct 24, 2016 10:43:03 GMT -5
Let's be honest. A band with the name "Gay Dad" was doomed to fail, no matter what.
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Post by Doc Lobster on Oct 24, 2016 10:50:22 GMT -5
No amount of tracklist changes could have saved DOYS. They just didn't have the songs.
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Post by spaneli on Oct 24, 2016 10:55:56 GMT -5
Let's be honest. A band with the name "Gay Dad" was doomed to fail, no matter what. Could you imagine that name in today's cultural climate?  |
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Post by guigsysEstring on Oct 24, 2016 11:08:46 GMT -5
Should have walked after Knebworth. He was offered the chance after the second night when a Sony Music Executive sidled up to him and said "It's time for the solo record now" (Nick Aimes- Where Did It All Go Wrong? p28) and that rumour had gone around the industry that it would be all over after Knebworth, although the industry had also been wrong that year regarding Creation Records by assuming that Sony would exercise their right to buy the label completely when in fact (an abridged version of a long negotiation process here) they ended up renewing the deal for a further five years for £14,500,000 (Billboard Magazine June 15th 1996 and 'My Magpies Eyes Are Hungry for the Prize- The Creation Records Story'). That deal to me showed that whatever the people involved in the 1996 success story say in retrospect, at the time even if they were having reservations I don't think anyone was ready to admit Creation Records or Oasis had peaked. This was borne out by bundling the band off on what proved to be another troubled US tour straight after Knebworth rather than taking any time off to recuperate and enjoy the moment as the UK's biggest band before perhaps touring again in the new year. I think that rushing the band into the studio following cancellation of the aforementioned tour, whilst not needing to prompt the band themselves into it too much, was also management and record company thinking partly at least fuelled by the fear that a lucrative cash cow might break up if given time to think about where they wanted to go with their joint and personal careers. I think Noel at least had regrets from that decision in 1996 to carry on as early as the following year with this quote from 1997- Oasis Interview Blogspot full articleIt certainly became a reoccurring theme on and off until the 2009 spilt with Noel and solo records, so I do wonder if he had his time again would he chose to go out in front of 125,000 in August 1996 before taking some time off and reemerging like his idols Johnny Marr and perhaps more so as a continually evolving solo artist Paul Weller. |
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Post by unionpat on Oct 24, 2016 11:16:47 GMT -5
I think most the album is damn good. Bag It Up should've been a single. High Horse a b-side for sure. Wasn't it really Liam's fault we missed a few good tracks, wasn't he f'ing about??
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Post by tomlivesforever on Oct 24, 2016 11:48:32 GMT -5
I don't think Noel deliberately sabotaged it, however it could have been an ace record with a little more thought and a little more time put into it. It wasn't a case for me of them not having the songs, I would say they didn't really have the songs to record during the HC era.
For me if you get rid of GOYHHL, AGN, TNOR and SO and put in TBWTB, RM AND STC then you have a decent all round record. Its not like they had impossible obsticles to overcome, it was only time and effort.
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