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Post by liamgallagher1992 on Jul 20, 2015 10:45:50 GMT -5
Was it really just a case of a few lads in a band that weren't going anywhere and then got the lead singers brother and turned up at Glasgow and became the biggest band in the world? When you hear it, it is an incredible fairytale.
But in reality was it ever like this? When you hear about Johnny Marr getting into the band before anyone else etc. I mean, that doesn't happen to your local pub band down the road does it?
I bring all this up because I had the lead singer of Inspiral Carpets come into my uni to give a lecture. (The one who's been kicked out, can't remember his name).
Now, he was so bitter about Noel becoming what he has so it could all just be sour grapes. But he was adamant Noel met Alan McGhee while roadie, well before the famous night in Scotland. He also said Noel did everything he could to date PAs and people in higher places in the music industry to get where he was and that it was far from the story he tells now.
Obviously he still had to have the songs and the talent, but what really is the story with how Oasis were formed and got that record deal?
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Post by defmaybe00 on Jul 20, 2015 10:54:50 GMT -5
Does it really change anything? It's still a few lads from Burnage isn't it?
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Post by cigsandalc on Jul 20, 2015 11:07:21 GMT -5
Aliens, Chemtrails, 9/11, how did Oasis get big,... The big mysteries
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Post by theyknowwhatimean on Jul 20, 2015 11:10:24 GMT -5
A former friend of mine has always been adamant that his mum once dated one of the Gallagher's way back when. She looks a bit old for Liam, and not the prettiest. As Liam was famous from the age of about nineteen, she wouldn't have had much time to get in there before Liam was too famous and hankering after film stars. All she does say, was that whoever he was, he was really nice and he used to carry champagne around in a backpack. Knowing Noel's tendency for his ego to get the better of him, (and the fact that he once wrote a song called Champagne Supernova!) that does sound like something he might do. Having seen the lady in question, she does have the look of a PA about her. Not terribly exciting, but chatty enough.
Perhaps there is some truth in it - I'm certainly far from believing a word of whatever Noely G says these days; he does love a good hyperbole-laden story or two, but I'm not having that McGee met them before that night in Scotland. If that was just Noel's little story, why would McGee tell it as well? As someone who has retired himself from the public eye, what would he have to gain from telling it?
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Post by theyknowwhatimean on Jul 20, 2015 11:13:47 GMT -5
Words our Noel lives by...
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Post by defmaybe00 on Jul 20, 2015 11:19:26 GMT -5
I obviously know fuck all,but I think it's pretty clear after his experience with the Inspirals knew people in businness and knew how it worked in general,that's why as soon as he got in the band he became The Chief
Said that,if he tried to hang out with as many people in the industry as possible why was it McGee that edventually signed them? And if Noel had known him for a long time why didn't Alan sign or at least approached them before the Glasgow's gig?
On the Johnny Marr thing,some artists really like to discover and support new bands,they do it all the time,I remember Clint Boon mentioning Catfish And The Bottlemen when they were still nobodies,look at them now
And even if what the guy says it's true,they put Definitely Maybe out as their debut record,it's not like it was a travesty for them to get a record deal,is it?
P.S. If this was true Tony McCarroll probably would have written about it
God Bless
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Post by Doc Lobster on Jul 20, 2015 11:30:00 GMT -5
Aliens, Chemtrails, 9/11, how did Oasis get big,... The big mysteries Champagne supernovas can't melt steel beams.
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Post by Greedy's Mighty Sigh on Jul 20, 2015 11:46:30 GMT -5
I dont believe the KingTuts story for one second. Noel was obviously well connected, knowing Johnny Marr & Mani years before Definitely Maybe. Theres no way a talented bloke with such friends in high places eventually found fame by chance. The fact Marr gave Noel that guitar the weekend of the King Tuts gig suggests that it was to impress McGhee who was expected to be there.
I would bet McGhee came up with the missing his flight story to add a hollywood element to the band, which after all of these years niether can suddenly admit it didnt happen.
I personally dont mind. If Noel did suck up to corporates etc to record deal, fucking fair play.
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Post by cigsandalc on Jul 20, 2015 11:51:52 GMT -5
No matter what you all believe, it´s McGee NOT McGhee
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Post by liamgallagher1992 on Jul 20, 2015 11:56:52 GMT -5
Does it really change anything? It's still a few lads from Burnage isn't it? You know what I mean. The old story of just a few lads from a council estate picking up a guitar etc etc No need to try and gain likes
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Post by joladella on Jul 20, 2015 12:07:26 GMT -5
Tom Hingley. I read his book where he was pretty bitter towards Noel & Oasis and his own former band, of course. But he did come across as quite likeable I have to say and I could not help but feel for him, because of what happend with his own band where there of course are more than one side. He told a brilliant story where by chance on a tour he, the (apparently clean) lead singer ended up finding a drug dealer for his roadies, Noel and his mate.
Anyway, maybe it is one of those stories that has been repeated so often that everybody believes it. I just remember, maybe from McGee's book, that he did meet Noel earlier, when Noel was dating a girl that worked as a cleaner for Creation. And he mentions that he even was in the boardwalk rehearsal room, meeting one of his own bands there and asking them about Oasis. I think? Anyway, they showed him the room with the Union Jack and told him that that band is a bunch of nationalists, just to keep him away from them.
I think the version McGee told in his book was that he was in Glasgow to surprise his good friend and came too early because they had changed the curfew times. If it is a made up story, it is made up nicely and everybody involved has been sticking to it so far.
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on Jul 20, 2015 12:50:26 GMT -5
Good question.
It's difficult to say quite exactly, as Noel is a well known bullshitter and has always had a tendency to extend the truth for the sake of a "better story", but I wouldn't be too surprised if one or two of the things said there were true.
It's definitely true that Johnny Marr was a fan of the band before the release of the band's debut album, with Noel and Johnny approximately meeting May/June 1993 through Johnny's brother Ian Maher. I've yet to hear anything about Noel and Alan meeting before the King Tut's Wah Wah gig on the 31st May of the same year however. It's certainly not inconceivable that he did meet him at some point before though.
The only interview I've read (and everything Noel says certainly needs to be taken with a big pinch of salt) which mentions at least some kind of prior knowledge of Alan McGee came from this interview which suggests that he knew in advance that Alan McGee would be at King Tut's. I'm somewhat sceptical seeing as the Johnny Marr story mentioned differs time-wise from that talked about in 1994, but it make of it what you want:
Oh, and If Noel ever did date PA's (ect.), it never got the band anywhere ultimately.
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Jul 20, 2015 13:13:05 GMT -5
Of course he knew Alan would be there. Wasn't that the whole reason for them to go there? I thought that was common knowledge.
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on Jul 20, 2015 13:28:30 GMT -5
Of course he knew Alan would be there. Wasn't that the whole reason for them to go there? I thought that was common knowledge. Is it? I thought the story was it was a chance meeting? Maybe I'm wrong?
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Post by defmaybe00 on Jul 20, 2015 13:33:28 GMT -5
Isn't the story that he was supposed to be there but not by the time Oasis (which weren't meant to be there) played,but for some reason he got there earlier?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2015 13:36:03 GMT -5
Well the story has evolved and changed over the years. I read somewhere that Noel once claimed that Alan had walked on stage and offered the band the contract there and then. I don't really care though, we all know Noel has a tendency to exxagerate his stories a bit to make them sound better. It seems apparent that they knew Alan would be there which makes sense, as I was initially a bit skeptical as to why they would travel all the way to Glasgow to play four songs to a basically empty club.
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Post by asimarx on Jul 20, 2015 15:37:32 GMT -5
Of course he knew Alan would be there. Wasn't that the whole reason for them to go there? I thought that was common knowledge. They didn't know Alan McGee would be present. How should they have? Noel apparently didn't even recognise him at first, after he proposed them a record deal. The story has been told and been written about seemingly million times and it pretty much just varies in how Oasis actually got on stage at all that day (arriving at the venue and being denied to play at first) and how Alan reacted (pouring a bottle of whiskey over his head, calling one of the Abbots at this label, declaring he's just seen 'future of rock'n'roll' or just kindly approaching them afterwards etc...). Alan McGee had been visiting King Tut's in Glasgow in the first place that very day because he wanted to see a friend's band called 'Sister Lovers' (yeah..., but apparently named after the Big Star album). Other accounts claim he just got some time off while waiting for a train to arrive. I guess, as always, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I've yet to read his book on his story with Creation Records, it's been waiting on the shelf, gathering dust for quite some time now. I find it quite fascinating that the same record label is responsible for such diverse landmark records as 'Loveless' (which almost got them to declare bankruptcy) and Definitely Maybe only a little later (which in fact rehabilitated them financially).
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Jul 20, 2015 15:46:22 GMT -5
Of course he knew Alan would be there. Wasn't that the whole reason for them to go there? I thought that was common knowledge. They didn't know Alan McGee would be present. How should they have? Noel apparently didn't even recognise him at first, after he proposed them a record deal. The story has been told and been written about seemingly million times and it pretty much just varies in how Oasis actually got on stage at all that day (arriving at the venue and being denied to play at first) and how Alan reacted (pouring a bottle of whiskey over his head, calling one of the Abbots at this label, declaring he's just seen 'future of rock'n'roll' or just kindly approaching them afterwards etc...). Alan McGee had been visiting King Tut's in Glasgow in the first place that very day because he wanted to see a friend's band called 'Sister Lovers' (yeah..., but apparently named after the Big Star album). Other accounts claim he just got some time off while waiting for a train to arrive. I guess, as always, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I've yet to read his book on his story with Creation Records, it's been waiting on the shelf, gathering dust for quite some time now. I find it quite fascinating that the same record label is responsible for such diverse landmark records as 'Loveless' (which almost got them to declare bankruptcy) and Definitely Maybe only a little later (which in fact rehabilitated them financially). Yeah well, I'm not buying that. You're going to travel all the way to Glasgow and force your way into a club with only a few people present just for the hell of it? Not to mention how much it must have cost them to get there in the first place. Yeah, this is a story that has been told many times, and is probably guilty of being remembered incorrectly at times. We will probably never know the fully correct story. The more we know, the less plausible it all seems. Some things should be left unknown I guess.
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on Jul 20, 2015 16:07:07 GMT -5
They didn't know Alan McGee would be present. How should they have? Noel apparently didn't even recognise him at first, after he proposed them a record deal. The story has been told and been written about seemingly million times and it pretty much just varies in how Oasis actually got on stage at all that day (arriving at the venue and being denied to play at first) and how Alan reacted (pouring a bottle of whiskey over his head, calling one of the Abbots at this label, declaring he's just seen 'future of rock'n'roll' or just kindly approaching them afterwards etc...). Alan McGee had been visiting King Tut's in Glasgow in the first place that very day because he wanted to see a friend's band called 'Sister Lovers' (yeah..., but apparently named after the Big Star album). Other accounts claim he just got some time off while waiting for a train to arrive. I guess, as always, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I've yet to read his book on his story with Creation Records, it's been waiting on the shelf, gathering dust for quite some time now. I find it quite fascinating that the same record label is responsible for such diverse landmark records as 'Loveless' (which almost got them to declare bankruptcy) and Definitely Maybe only a little later (which in fact rehabilitated them financially). Yeah well, I'm not buying that. You're going to travel all the way to Glasgow and force your way into a club with only a few people present just for the hell of it? Not to mention how much it must have cost them to get there in the first place.Yeah, this is a story that has been told many times, and is probably guilty of being remembered incorrectly at times. We will probably never know the fully correct story. The more we know, the less plausible it all seems. Some things should be left unknown I guess. Up for debate but if the band went to King Tut's with the intention of being signed would the band have played the long drawn out cover of I Am The Walrus? Live Forever, Noel's so called 'game changer', has a disputed origin but it's likely to have been written by May 31st 93 and songs such as Columbia and Fade Away were very much on the books having been played previously. I mean maybe, but I'm not overly convinced.
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Post by defmaybe00 on Jul 20, 2015 16:13:02 GMT -5
Yeah well, I'm not buying that. You're going to travel all the way to Glasgow and force your way into a club with only a few people present just for the hell of it? Not to mention how much it must have cost them to get there in the first place.Yeah, this is a story that has been told many times, and is probably guilty of being remembered incorrectly at times. We will probably never know the fully correct story. The more we know, the less plausible it all seems. Some things should be left unknown I guess. Up for debate but if the band went to King Tut's with the intention of being signed would the band have played the long drawn out cover of I Am The Walrus? Live Forever, Noel's so called 'game changer', has a disputed origin but it's likely to have been written by May 31st 93 and songs such as Columbia and Fade Away were very much on the books having been played previously. I mean maybe, but I'm not overly convinced. Live Forever was definitely written before they were signed as Bonehead and Tony both have spoken about the day Noel played it to the band and they didn't have a record deal yet
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on Jul 20, 2015 16:27:33 GMT -5
Up for debate but if the band went to King Tut's with the intention of being signed would the band have played the long drawn out cover of I Am The Walrus? Live Forever, Noel's so called 'game changer', has a disputed origin but it's likely to have been written by May 31st 93 and songs such as Columbia and Fade Away were very much on the books having been played previously. I mean maybe, but I'm not overly convinced. Live Forever was definitely written before they were signed as Bonehead and Tony both have spoken about the day Noel played it to the band and they didn't have a record deal yet I wouldn't take their words as gospel, although I believe it's likely correct date wise. There have been multiple occasions when Noel has spoken of it as being one of the first written, one of the later ones, written in a shed, written on Johnny Marr's guitar, so on and so on... Personally I think it was completed shortly after the band's time with The Real People in early in 1993, though too early to have been written on Marr's Les Paul and probably not in the "Hit Hut". Was it Live Forever the musical game changer Noel has always claimed it to be? Possibly, but I'm not convinced. I thinks it's just another example of Noel trying to add to a song's legacy (and therefore the band's and his own) as it's a nice, simple story. Noel claimed he was writing a certain type of song before he wrote Live Forever (once descibed as "Baggy") and a different one after, but when you consider he had wrote Columbia, Rock N' Roll Star, Fade Away, Up In The Sky, Digsy's Dinner and Whatever before and Cigarettes & Alcohol, Shakermaker and Supersonic immediately after, had things changed that much? I've also found it weird that when Noel used to list out his songs in his 1993 notebook he'd often put what I can only assume are the songs that came into his head first, hence why many of the better tracks are listed at the front (i.e. the ones to make Definitely Maybe/(WTS)MG?/Be Here Now or became b-sides), however he never wrote Live Forever first. Maybe this is me over analysing things but you'd would have thought that his super-song Live Forever would be the first to come into his head... not so much 4th and 7th.
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Post by defmaybe00 on Jul 20, 2015 16:41:11 GMT -5
Live Forever was definitely written before they were signed as Bonehead and Tony both have spoken about the day Noel played it to the band and they didn't have a record deal yet I wouldn't take their words as gospel, although I believe it's likely correct date wise. There have been multiple occasions when Noel has spoken of it as being one of the first written, one of the later ones, written in a shed, written on Johnny Marr's guitar, so on and so on... Personally I think it was completed shortly after the band's time with The Real People in early in 1993, though too early to have been written on Marr's Les Paul and probably not in the "Hit Hut". Was it the musical game changer? Again, possibly, but probably not... Wasn't it Slide Away that was written on Johnny's guitar?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2015 16:43:26 GMT -5
I wouldn't take their words as gospel, although I believe it's likely correct date wise. There have been multiple occasions when Noel has spoken of it as being one of the first written, one of the later ones, written in a shed, written on Johnny Marr's guitar, so on and so on... Personally I think it was completed shortly after the band's time with The Real People in early in 1993, though too early to have been written on Marr's Les Paul and probably not in the "Hit Hut". Was it the musical game changer? Again, possibly, but probably not... Wasn't it Slide Away that was written on Johnny's guitar? It was indeed. In fact, Noel's admitted in the past that he didn't actually write that song.
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Post by asimarx on Jul 20, 2015 16:48:30 GMT -5
The following is actually the latest account of what might have happened at King Tut's, according to Mark Coyle. As discussed before, he still keeps a 'wobbly' tape recording!! Or as Noel said, 'the material that ended up on the reissues wasn't even half of the stuff that had been considered to be included'...I just hope I'll become old enough to actually witness all the further reissues... "They were invited to play a gig by a band called Sister Lovers, who shared their rehearsal rooms.Alan, head of Creation Records, was there to watch one of his acts, 18 Wheeler.Mark said: “I knew Alan already, because I also worked for Teenage Fanclub and, when we finished our gig at Tut’s, I walked to the bar to get a drink and stood next to me, waiting for his drink, was Alan of all people.“We got talking and I took him up to the dressing room and introduced him to Noel.”A couple of months later Oasis signed to Creation, despite a last minute try by U2’s Mother label.Mark said: “He probably would have got into the dressing room anyway, but he might not have. He might have gone for his train and that might have been that.“Someone else may have offered them a deal and it would have been a totally different story.“It’s funny how life works out.”As an engineer, Mark recorded all the bands he worked with and he has on tape the four songs that Oasis played that night – Rock ’n’ Roll Star, Bring It on Down, Up in the Sky and Beatles cover I Am The Walrus.It’s a mouthwatering piece of history, the moment the 90s’ biggest band were given their break on Scottish soil, but he won’t release it.He said: “It’s a poor quality, wobbly cassette. There’s nothing usable.“It’s one possibly for the future, but I’d be very sensitive about putting something out that would mean people spending hard-earned money on a poor-quality recording.” www.dailyrecord.co.uk/entertainment/celebrity-interviews/sound-engineer-mark-coyle-reveals-3486555 (May 2014)
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on Jul 20, 2015 17:11:41 GMT -5
I wouldn't take their words as gospel, although I believe it's likely correct date wise. There have been multiple occasions when Noel has spoken of it as being one of the first written, one of the later ones, written in a shed, written on Johnny Marr's guitar, so on and so on... Personally I think it was completed shortly after the band's time with The Real People in early in 1993, though too early to have been written on Marr's Les Paul and probably not in the "Hit Hut". Was it the musical game changer? Again, possibly, but probably not... Wasn't it Slide Away that was written on Johnny's guitar? Like Shakespears Sister says, yeah he probably did write Side Away on Johnny Marr's Les Paul (the black one I think) however both Noel and Johnny have said Live Forever was written on Johnny's sunburst Les Paul, something I personally don't believe fits the Oasis timeline.
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