|
Post by Mr. Bigglesworth on Jul 11, 2013 2:08:08 GMT -5
This is exactly how I feel but you can't be seen to dislike someone who Liam has criticised or you get labelled as a member of the mad 4 it brigade by Liam's own fan base. The opinions of people like Robbie Williams who rely on others to write their songs for them aren't valid at all. Noel has written (Probably) All In The Mind, Macca has written The Frog Song and we all know some of the songs Liam has written over the years but at least they wrote them on their own so any success they get they deserve and can then earn the right to perhaps be a bit big-headed. Sure Noel has a big ego, but he did write Wonderwall and Live Forever and so on... Yes, Robbie Williams is selling out Wembley but it's not down to him like Macca and Noel Surely if Liam deserves equal credit to Noel for all those Oasis hits Noel wrote that he sang then Robbie should be given at least half the credit for all the hits that he has ever preformed. Maybe even more than half since Robbie actually cowrote bits of his songs and even if it's all a massive conspiracy at least had a say in song choice and musical direction. Liam was nothing but a performer of someone else's songs for his rise to fame and has never realized a song alone to this day. So what is the difference between them except that Liam joined a band with his songwriter and co-writers instead of having his own name on the record and crediting them as co-writers? If Robbie's opinions aren't valid because he doesn't write alone doesn't it follow that Liam's aren't either? After all he hasn't written a hit by himself and all the songs that made him famous were fully written by someone else. for me it feels different, cause Oasis was a Band and Liam was a member of the Band. If you have a quality songwriter in a band its great, but you need capable bandmembers that can translate. I'm not the biggest fan of Guigsy and Bonehead but they translated the songs right and most people out there thought "Don't look back in anger" or "Live Forever" by Oasis not Noel Gallagher and probably were not that deep into "who wrote what?" like the hardcore fans. Robbie started a succesful solo career, which was built up on his departure from Take That i think, so he got co writers that i think wrote the song "angel", wasn't this the first big hit? So he became famous cause he has a great voice and is a talented man, would not say anything else, BUT its different to become famous after leaving a really famous boy band and got help by a record label, that give you songs and songwriters.
|
|
|
Post by ricardogce on Jul 11, 2013 7:18:04 GMT -5
Songbird was #3 and I'm Outta Time was #12. On what planet are those not hits, and how were they not "realized" by Liam alone?
And I love Noel as much as a heterosexual man can love another heterosexual man, but while he wrote the songs, Liam gave them life. Noel without Liam would have had quite a successful career either as a solo performer or as a writer for others, but the Oasis phenomenon required them both working together. Oasis is the ultimate example of the whole being more than the sum of its parts. It's the way in which they were most like The Beatles, really. Great musicians in their own right, but when they worked together, it was more than just great, it was sublime.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2013 7:20:08 GMT -5
This is exactly how I feel but you can't be seen to dislike someone who Liam has criticised or you get labelled as a member of the mad 4 it brigade by Liam's own fan base. The opinions of people like Robbie Williams who rely on others to write their songs for them aren't valid at all. Noel has written (Probably) All In The Mind, Macca has written The Frog Song and we all know some of the songs Liam has written over the years but at least they wrote them on their own so any success they get they deserve and can then earn the right to perhaps be a bit big-headed. Sure Noel has a big ego, but he did write Wonderwall and Live Forever and so on... Yes, Robbie Williams is selling out Wembley but it's not down to him like Macca and Noel Surely if Liam deserves equal credit to Noel for all those Oasis hits Noel wrote that he sang then Robbie should be given at least half the credit for all the hits that he has ever preformed. Maybe even more than half since Robbie actually cowrote bits of his songs and even if it's all a massive conspiracy at least had a say in song choice and musical direction. Liam was nothing but a performer of someone else's songs for his rise to fame and has never realized a song alone to this day. So what is the difference between them except that Liam joined a band with his songwriter and co-writers instead of having his own name on the record and crediting them as co-writers? If Robbie's opinions aren't valid because he doesn't write alone doesn't it follow that Liam's aren't either? After all he hasn't written a hit by himself and all the songs that made him famous were fully written by someone else. When did I say Liam deserves equal credit for Noel's hits? Liam deserves credit for the songs he's written. Sure he's written some crap but he had to write it on his own as he has steadily improved his songwriting from Little James onwards, he couldn't rely on Guy Chambers or Take That to rejuvenate his career for him like Williams. Robbie Williams can't pass judgement on the songwriting of others when he is but a co-writer who relies on others to get anything released. If Robbie releases an album of songs all written solely by him and if it's any good THEN he can pass judgement on others.
|
|
|
Post by Rolo on Jul 11, 2013 7:54:23 GMT -5
I honestly can't believe what I'm reading here. We are on an Oasis forum yet some people still go against Liam even when he's in a feud with an idiot like Robbie Williams. Fucking pathetic.
|
|
|
Post by manicsfan on Jul 11, 2013 10:00:37 GMT -5
I honestly can't believe what I'm reading here. We are on an Oasis forum yet some people still go against Liam even when he's in a feud with an idiot like Robbie Williams. Fucking pathetic. People can be on an Oasis forum and agree or enjoy Robbie Williams all they like. I don't think the thought police have taken over just yet. Maybe start a petition to have us all banned?!?!
|
|
|
Post by gdforever on Jul 11, 2013 10:11:28 GMT -5
I honestly can't believe what I'm reading here. We are on an Oasis forum yet some people still go against Liam even when he's in a feud with an idiot like Robbie Williams. Fucking pathetic. People can be on an Oasis forum and agree or enjoy Robbie Williams all they like. I don't think the thought police have taken over just yet. Maybe start a petition to have us all banned?!?! I don't enjoy Robbie William per se. Can't honestly say I could pick his songs out of a lineup. I know I've heard them but I don't really pay attention. I do enjoy the irony of people defending a man that got famous preforming other people's songs and has always needed help realizing his song (including the aforementioned Songbird and IOT) on the basis that the man that criticized had cowriters. Liam deserves credit because he "breathed life" into Noel's songs. But Robbie Williams doesn't because he is just a performer. Liam has proved it isn't as easy as all that to leave a massive act and go on to become a massive act in their own right surely.
|
|
|
Post by gdforever on Jul 11, 2013 10:22:20 GMT -5
Surely if Liam deserves equal credit to Noel for all those Oasis hits Noel wrote that he sang then Robbie should be given at least half the credit for all the hits that he has ever preformed. Maybe even more than half since Robbie actually cowrote bits of his songs and even if it's all a massive conspiracy at least had a say in song choice and musical direction. Liam was nothing but a performer of someone else's songs for his rise to fame and has never realized a song alone to this day. So what is the difference between them except that Liam joined a band with his songwriter and co-writers instead of having his own name on the record and crediting them as co-writers? If Robbie's opinions aren't valid because he doesn't write alone doesn't it follow that Liam's aren't either? After all he hasn't written a hit by himself and all the songs that made him famous were fully written by someone else. When did I say Liam deserves equal credit for Noel's hits? Liam deserves credit for the songs he's written. Sure he's written some crap but he had to write it on his own as he has steadily improved his songwriting from Little James onwards, he couldn't rely on Guy Chambers or Take That to rejuvenate his career for him like Williams. Robbie Williams can't pass judgement on the songwriting of others when he is but a co-writer who relies on others to get anything released. If Robbie releases an album of songs all written solely by him and if it's any good THEN he can pass judgement on others. Liam has always co-written with someone really except for LJ. If he's been solo I think wouldn't have been able to claim sole songwriting credit of either Songbird or IOT because he had help from Gem and if they hasn't been in a band together he probably would have wanted a writing credit. Noel said if you knew what you were looking for you could hear Gems influence on Liam's tunes. I don't think that it's a coincidence that Liam's songwriting improved by a massive leap just as he started working with another songwriter to finish his songs. And now Liam doesn't write alone now either. He has 2 co writers plus a producers that gets writing credits. Seems he just about on par with Robbie Williams. He just happens to be in a band instead of being solo and hasn't managed to rejuvenate his career even with 3 co-writers. Lets be realistic. Neither of these guys are self sufficient artists.
|
|
|
Post by gdforever on Jul 11, 2013 10:30:58 GMT -5
Songbird was #3 and I'm Outta Time was #12. On what planet are those not hits, and how were they not "realized" by Liam alone? And I love Noel as much as a heterosexual man can love another heterosexual man, but while he wrote the songs, Liam gave them life. Noel without Liam would have had quite a successful career either as a solo performer or as a writer for others, but the Oasis phenomenon required them both working together. Oasis is the ultimate example of the whole being more than the sum of its parts. It's the way in which they were most like The Beatles, really. Great musicians in their own right, but when they worked together, it was more than just great, it was sublime. Minor "hits" if that. Neither of them are massive hits. And by fully realized I mean Gem helped. I don't believe that it's coincidence that his songwriting improved when he began to work on material with Gem. I think they probably should have been credited as a songwriting team in Oasis. And Noel always had influence on the final product. But this isn't a Noel vs Liam thing. I agree they both deserve credit or Oasis. But to say Liam deserves credit for Oasis while at the same time saying that Robbie Williams doesn't deserve credit for "giving life" to his own tunes, regardless of whether he wrote any part of them is hypocritical. I'm just being realistic. There isn't a massive difference between the two guys other than the fact that Liam happens to be in a band and Robbie happens to be a solo artist. They both became famous singing other people's songs in a group. They both have help from outside to write their material now.
|
|
|
Post by losingmyhead on Jul 11, 2013 10:33:41 GMT -5
I honestly can't believe what I'm reading here. We are on an Oasis forum yet some people still go against Liam even when he's in a feud with an idiot like Robbie Williams. Fucking pathetic. People can be on an Oasis forum and agree or enjoy Robbie Williams all they like. I don't think the thought police have taken over just yet. Maybe start a petition to have us all banned?!?! Agreed. Liam's a legend, but I can still find it distasteful that he's making light of Robbie W's depression. Depression is an ugly, ugly thing and it is very misunderstood. i think its a shit thing to do to make fun of someone because they've admitted to suffering from clinical depression. And I find it comical that people are trying to make a distinction between what RObbie W does and what Liam did before 2000. There's no difference. They were both singers singing other people's tunes. Of course, in my opinion, Liam was way better, but that doesn't change the fact that they were both doing the exact same thing.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2013 10:37:52 GMT -5
When did I say Liam deserves equal credit for Noel's hits? Liam deserves credit for the songs he's written. Sure he's written some crap but he had to write it on his own as he has steadily improved his songwriting from Little James onwards, he couldn't rely on Guy Chambers or Take That to rejuvenate his career for him like Williams. Robbie Williams can't pass judgement on the songwriting of others when he is but a co-writer who relies on others to get anything released. If Robbie releases an album of songs all written solely by him and if it's any good THEN he can pass judgement on others. Liam has always co-written with someone really except for LJ. If he's been solo I think wouldn't have been able to claim sole songwriting credit of either Songbird or IOT because he had help from Gem and if they hasn't been in a band together he probably would have wanted a writing credit. Noel said if you knew what you were looking for you could hear Gems influence on Liam's tunes. I don't think that it's a coincidence that Liam's songwriting improved by a massive leap just as he started working with another songwriter to finish his songs. And now Liam doesn't write alone now either. He has 2 co writers plus a producers that gets writing credits. Seems he just about on par with Robbie Williams. He just happens to be in a band instead of being solo and hasn't managed to rejuvenate his career even with 3 co-writers. Lets be realistic. Neither of these guys are self sufficient artists. What? Where's the proof of any of this, is there a picture of Gem writing the chorus of I'm Outta' Time down? What Noel says often needs to be taken with a very large grain of salt... Liam isn't a very good songwriter as I've said before but he doesn't criticise the songwriting of others unlike Robbie Williams who also isn't a good songwriter and yet he criticises Beady Eye's song for lacking in choruses. Liam called Candy shit (which it is) but he doesn't criticise songwriting as he isn't exactly a expert himself. This is why I object to Robbie's remarks and this is the original point I was trying to make before we spiralled into writing credits of being in a band blah blah blah...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2013 10:38:05 GMT -5
Didn't Liam start this entire bullshit on the day he was playing the Ritz and Robbie was playing the stadium gig calling him "a fucking fat fuck" or something and saying "we should be playing the stadium, not him!"
Unrealistic not to expect Robbie to throw it right back at him.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2013 10:39:36 GMT -5
Petition to get manicsfan banned? I'm in.
|
|
|
Post by space75gr on Jul 11, 2013 10:40:22 GMT -5
I honestly can't believe what I'm reading here. We are on an Oasis forum yet some people still go against Liam even when he's in a feud with an idiot like Robbie Williams. Fucking pathetic. totally agree with you. the "usual suspects" now turn the BE place to a Robbie w forum! I suppose that "they" finally found someone to sing Noel's songs. Not a bad idea the return of oasis with robbie on vocals."they" should be happy! I have also to admit that without "them", BE forum would be such a boring place!!!
|
|
|
Post by losingmyhead on Jul 11, 2013 10:44:09 GMT -5
I honestly can't believe what I'm reading here. We are on an Oasis forum yet some people still go against Liam even when he's in a feud with an idiot like Robbie Williams. Fucking pathetic. totally agree with you. the "usual suspects" now turn the BE place to a Robbie w forum! I suppose that "they" finally found someone to sing Noel's songs. Not a bad idea the return of oasis with robbie on vocals."they" should be happy! I have also to admit that without "them", BE forum would be such a boring place!!! Some of us aren't sheep. I don't support everything someone does and says because I like their music. Noel sounded like a moron last year when he blamed the riots on video games and all that shit. Liam sounds like a cock when he makes fun of Robbie Williams for being depressed (and so did Noel).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2013 10:46:18 GMT -5
When did Liam make fun of Robbie's depression?
|
|
|
Post by space75gr on Jul 11, 2013 10:47:03 GMT -5
totally agree with you. the "usual suspects" now turn the BE place to a Robbie w forum! I suppose that "they" finally found someone to sing Noel's songs. Not a bad idea the return of oasis with robbie on vocals."they" should be happy! I have also to admit that without "them", BE forum would be such a boring place!!! Some of us aren't sheep. I don't support everything someone does and says because I like their music. Noel sounded like a moron last year when he blamed the riots on video games and all that shit. Liam sounds like a cock when he makes fun of Robbie Williams for being depressed (and so did Noel). fair point my good friend, but if you read the whole topic, then you are gonna understand what i mean.
|
|
|
Post by Jim on Jul 11, 2013 10:52:30 GMT -5
Liam Gallagher became famous for singing Oasis songs. They didn't become Noel Gallagher songs till he went solo.
There was never an issue before that no matter how much some people on here want it to be true. They were a band, all in it together.
A song written between 1991 and 2009 was an Oasis song no matter who wrote it, Noel, Liam, Gem or Andy.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2013 10:54:20 GMT -5
And when did Noel mock Robbie's depression?
|
|
|
Post by gdforever on Jul 11, 2013 10:55:36 GMT -5
Surely if Liam deserves equal credit to Noel for all those Oasis hits Noel wrote that he sang then Robbie should be given at least half the credit for all the hits that he has ever preformed. Maybe even more than half since Robbie actually cowrote bits of his songs and even if it's all a massive conspiracy at least had a say in song choice and musical direction. Liam was nothing but a performer of someone else's songs for his rise to fame and has never realized a song alone to this day. So what is the difference between them except that Liam joined a band with his songwriter and co-writers instead of having his own name on the record and crediting them as co-writers? If Robbie's opinions aren't valid because he doesn't write alone doesn't it follow that Liam's aren't either? After all he hasn't written a hit by himself and all the songs that made him famous were fully written by someone else. for me it feels different, cause Oasis was a Band and Liam was a member of the Band. If you have a quality songwriter in a band its great, but you need capable bandmembers that can translate. I'm not the biggest fan of Guigsy and Bonehead but they translated the songs right and most people out there thought "Don't look back in anger" or "Live Forever" by Oasis not Noel Gallagher and probably were not that deep into "who wrote what?" like the hardcore fans. Robbie started a succesful solo career, which was built up on his departure from Take That i think, so he got co writers that i think wrote the song "angel", wasn't this the first big hit? So he became famous cause he has a great voice and is a talented man, would not say anything else, BUT its different to become famous after leaving a really famous boy band and got help by a record label, that give you songs and songwriters. So Robbie became famous for having a great voice and being a talented performer. How does that differ from Liam? He's not famous for his songwriting certainly. No most people don't think about who wrote what when listening to Live Forever. An if they don't neither do they think about who wrote what when listening to Robbie William. They just think "Robbie Williams" Why is it SO hard to believe that Robbie, just because he was in a boy band 15 years ago, is incapable of having an ear for melody and being able to help write a tune? It's not like he is Justin Bieber with every song having a different list of 6 songwriters which is very suspect and smacks of an artist picking tunes from a pile and sticking their name on. Robbie seems to have an established writing partner who he works with. That seems as valid as what Liam does collaborating with his guitarists. Elton John has a co-writer. I still consider him a valid artist. It's possible Guy Chambers is the man behind the curtain. But I've never heard of his doing anything substantial on his own so I tend to believe that there much be some sort of give and take between Guy and Robbie
|
|
|
Post by gdforever on Jul 11, 2013 11:01:09 GMT -5
Liam Gallagher became famous for singing Oasis songs. They didn't become Noel Gallagher songs till he went solo. There was never an issue before that no matter how much some people on here want it to be true. They were a band, all in it together. A song written between 1991 and 2009 was an Oasis song no matter who wrote it, Noel, Liam, Gem or Andy. What does this have to do with anything? No one is disputing that at present. Robbie got famous singing Take That songs and then subsequently Robbie Williams songs...makes no difference.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2013 11:04:35 GMT -5
Liam Gallagher became famous for singing Oasis songs. They didn't become Noel Gallagher songs till he went solo. There was never an issue before that no matter how much some people on here want it to be true. They were a band, all in it together.
|
|
|
Post by underneaththesky on Jul 11, 2013 11:10:29 GMT -5
is this thread really going on?
|
|
|
Post by ricardogce on Jul 11, 2013 11:15:50 GMT -5
Songbird was #3 and I'm Outta Time was #12. On what planet are those not hits, and how were they not "realized" by Liam alone? And I love Noel as much as a heterosexual man can love another heterosexual man, but while he wrote the songs, Liam gave them life. Noel without Liam would have had quite a successful career either as a solo performer or as a writer for others, but the Oasis phenomenon required them both working together. Oasis is the ultimate example of the whole being more than the sum of its parts. It's the way in which they were most like The Beatles, really. Great musicians in their own right, but when they worked together, it was more than just great, it was sublime. Minor "hits" if that. Neither of them are massive hits. And by fully realized I mean Gem helped. I don't believe that it's coincidence that his songwriting improved when he began to work on material with Gem. I think they probably should have been credited as a songwriting team in Oasis. And Noel always had influence on the final product. But this isn't a Noel vs Liam thing. I agree they both deserve credit or Oasis. But to say Liam deserves credit for Oasis while at the same time saying that Robbie Williams doesn't deserve credit for "giving life" to his own tunes, regardless of whether he wrote any part of them is hypocritical. I'm just being realistic. There isn't a massive difference between the two guys other than the fact that Liam happens to be in a band and Robbie happens to be a solo artist. They both became famous singing other people's songs in a group. They both have help from outside to write their material now. What you're doing? This:
|
|
|
Post by losingmyhead on Jul 11, 2013 11:20:33 GMT -5
When did Liam make fun of Robbie's depression? I take it back after reading the quote. I got the impression from the thread that Liam did mock Robbie's depression, when it was actually just one of the posters. But after closer inspection, Liam only called Robbie a "fat idiot". Which is fair enough! As for Noel, he unquestionably mocked Robbie for being a sad, unhappy individual and said he was likely going to shoot himself or something. This was five years back or so. That was totally not cool.
|
|
|
Post by gdforever on Jul 11, 2013 11:21:20 GMT -5
is this thread really going on? tbh I kind of regret posting at all now. And I'm now done with this. That's about as much effort as I am willing to expend on a Robbie Williams story. I just found the hypocritical attacks to be a bit much after a time. Particularly when someone insinuated that Robbie William should had been depressed because of his music and career. Dispicable
|
|