Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2020 9:21:27 GMT -5
Does Bernie have a real chance? Can't help but feel that people like him just don't make it, or someone will make sure he doesn't. I expect more of the same like in the UK. Its depressing. Bernie suffers from the fact he's from the left. And if you are that in America, you are right away labelled as a Communist when he's nothing close to that. Somebody needs to fucking create a graphic to help them realize that Socialism and Communism are not the same at all. Actually Bernie would be considered to have a centre like ideology in countless European countries. He's not really hardcore left in any way and many of the things he's promoting (and rightly so) like universal free healthcare are present in many parties that are more centre than left. For example, here in Portugal, the Socialist Party (there's also the seperate Communist Party, but they aren't alike in anything) is in government and they aren't really that left, they are more a centre party right now more than anything.
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Post by thomaslivesforever on Feb 4, 2020 9:35:09 GMT -5
Does Bernie have a real chance? Can't help but feel that people like him just don't make it, or someone will make sure he doesn't. I expect more of the same like in the UK. Its depressing. Bernie suffers from the fact he's from the left. And if you are that in America, you are right away labelled as a Communist when he's nothing close to that. Somebody needs to fucking create a graphic to help them realize that Socialism and Communism are not the same at all. Actually Bernie would be considered to have a center like ideology in countless European countries. He's not really hardcore left in any way and many of the things he's promoting (and rightly so) like universal free healthcare are present in many parties that are more center than left. For example, here in Portugal, the Socialist Party (there's also the seperate Communist Party, but they aren't alike in anything) is in government and they aren't really that left, they are more a center party right now more than anything. The centre would be progress for america but the centre can be shite, like here in Britain.
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Post by funhouse on Feb 4, 2020 11:36:39 GMT -5
She was 1000% correct when she said that. The two party system is an absolute joke for a supposed democracy, as if only TWO parties would be enough to represent a country of 350 million people. If anyone believes that, then that person is insane. I'm from Sweden, and of the eight established parties here, six, maaaybe even seven of them would have been placed underneath the Democratic flag if put into an American context. I think that says it all, the Democratic party makes no sense as a concept because it is way too fucking broad. Absolutely. And its honestly hard for me to put the republican party into german perspective, because I could make a case that parts of the republican party belongs into the "npd" which is a new version of Hitlers old party. And thats not an exaggeration. I have the same problem with our racist party. These guys walked around with literal swastika flags 20-25 years ago, they have had high positioned people in recent times saying Jews have to choose whether they are Swedes or Jews, and yet I can't tell if they're worse politically than the Republicans. It's beyond fucked up that I even have to ask myself that question.
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Post by The Escapist on Feb 5, 2020 8:02:54 GMT -5
If Pelosi treated Trump's military budgets with as much scrutiny as she did his speeches, the world would be a safer place.
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Post by NYR on Feb 5, 2020 19:33:47 GMT -5
Does Bernie have a real chance? Can't help but feel that people like him just don't make it, or someone will make sure he doesn't. I expect more of the same like in the UK. Its depressing. He's a socialist Jew from the northeast. He has no shot. And I say that as someone who likes him.
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Post by thomaslivesforever on Feb 5, 2020 19:35:21 GMT -5
Does Bernie have a real chance? Can't help but feel that people like him just don't make it, or someone will make sure he doesn't. I expect more of the same like in the UK. Its depressing. He's a socialist Jew from the northeast. He has no shot. And I say that as someone who likes him.
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Post by NYR on Feb 5, 2020 19:46:39 GMT -5
He's a socialist Jew from the northeast. He has no shot. And I say that as someone who likes him. I'll also add that his supporters are hurting him more than helping. They're toxic, and he's doing and saying nothing to calm them down. It's like they don't understand they need Democrats to win the nomination, and even more people to win the general election. It's a ridiculously bad idea to alienate voters who could one day vote for you by trashing other candidates and anyone outside their base. (I've seen it in this thread.) Save that shit for Trump. We can't win in November without all hands on deck. Closing the wagons to anyone you disagree with, whether they be moderates, centrists, or other, is just asking for another four years of Trump. And it's so incredibly frustrating to see, particularly after the events of this week and last.
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smash
Oasis Roadie
Posts: 434
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Post by smash on Feb 5, 2020 20:11:17 GMT -5
Agree with NYR - if it is Bernie, dems will lose. I'm not a big fan of his, but his followers ruin any goodwill I might have.
Trump's team is hoping it is Bernie, as he is seen as the easiest to beat. I believe he is most intimidated by Bloomberg, and would have a hard time countering a few of the others in a debate. Then again, trump has already said he may not bother with the debates - I believe he'll avoid them at all costs if a strong challenger.
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Post by NYR on Feb 5, 2020 22:13:44 GMT -5
Agree with NYR - if it is Bernie, dems will lose. I'm not a big fan of his, but his followers ruin any goodwill I might have. Trump's team is hoping it is Bernie, as he is seen as the easiest to beat. I believe he is most intimidated by Bloomberg, and would have a hard time countering a few of the others in a debate. Then again, trump has already said he may not bother with the debates - I believe he'll avoid them at all costs if a strong challenger. It's very easy to say you're going to enact all these big changes, but he and his followers are killing any sort of goodwill needed to pass anything. Diplomacy is the name of the game. They will need all the help they can get not just in the primaries and the general election (if he becomes nominee), but in the House and Senate if he ever wants to pass something as President. Don't get me wrong, I'll still vote for him if he becomes the nominee, but he and his followers need to calm the hell down.
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Post by underneaththesky on Feb 5, 2020 22:36:12 GMT -5
I think that impeachment thing makes him (look) stronger no way he was gonna get kicked out anyway
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Post by The Escapist on Feb 5, 2020 22:47:39 GMT -5
Trump will almost certainly beat Bernie. But Bernie's the only one who has the "almost".
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Post by NYR on Feb 6, 2020 10:04:13 GMT -5
Cheeks, much respect to your boy Mitt Romney for doing the right thing in the Senate's impeachment vote. Even though it seems like the bare minimum, it must not have been an easy thing to do.
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Post by funhouse on Feb 6, 2020 13:04:21 GMT -5
Trump's team is hoping it is Bernie, as he is seen as the easiest to beat.
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Post by Zingbot on Feb 6, 2020 13:18:16 GMT -5
Agree with NYR - if it is Bernie, dems will lose. I'm not a big fan of his, but his followers ruin any goodwill I might have. Trump's team is hoping it is Bernie, as he is seen as the easiest to beat. I believe he is most intimidated by Bloomberg, and would have a hard time countering a few of the others in a debate. Then again, trump has already said he may not bother with the debates - I believe he'll avoid them at all costs if a strong challenger. It's very easy to say you're going to enact all these big changes, but he and his followers are killing any sort of goodwill needed to pass anything. Diplomacy is the name of the game. They will need all the help they can get not just in the primaries and the general election (if he becomes nominee), but in the House and Senate if he ever wants to pass something as President. Don't get me wrong, I'll still vote for him if he becomes the nominee, but he and his followers need to calm the hell down. Let me guess, our lord and savior Joe Biden is the way to go, Or perhaps a woman of color like Elizabeth Warren, maybe a shining beacon of charisma like Amy Klobuchar, or maybe a young energetic status quo white man like mayor pete(he's gay too!). I'll stick with Bernie, you don't have to kiss ass to get things passed, you have to fight.
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Post by Zingbot on Feb 6, 2020 13:18:58 GMT -5
Btw Trump admitted to fearing Bernie. He wants to run against a tool like Amy, Pete, or Joe.
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Post by Zingbot on Feb 6, 2020 13:20:08 GMT -5
Trump's team is hoping it is Bernie, as he is seen as the easiest to beat. Exactly, I believe smash was just saying that to sound smart and informed.
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Post by NYR on Feb 6, 2020 14:23:19 GMT -5
It's very easy to say you're going to enact all these big changes, but he and his followers are killing any sort of goodwill needed to pass anything. Diplomacy is the name of the game. They will need all the help they can get not just in the primaries and the general election (if he becomes nominee), but in the House and Senate if he ever wants to pass something as President. Don't get me wrong, I'll still vote for him if he becomes the nominee, but he and his followers need to calm the hell down. Let me guess, our lord and savior Joe Biden is the way to go, Or perhaps a woman of color like Elizabeth Warren, maybe a shining beacon of charisma like Amy Klobuchar, or maybe a young energetic status quo white man like mayor pete(he's gay too!). I'll stick with Bernie, you don't have to kiss ass to get things passed, you have to fight. You're only proving my point. If only you and the rest of Bernie's supporters fought Trump and the Republicans with half the intensity that you do with other Democrats…
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Post by Zingbot on Feb 6, 2020 14:32:52 GMT -5
Let me guess, our lord and savior Joe Biden is the way to go, Or perhaps a woman of color like Elizabeth Warren, maybe a shining beacon of charisma like Amy Klobuchar, or maybe a young energetic status quo white man like mayor pete(he's gay too!). I'll stick with Bernie, you don't have to kiss ass to get things passed, you have to fight. You're only proving my point. If only you and the rest of Bernie's supporters fought Trump and the Republicans with half the intensity that you do with other Democrats… Trump and the republicans will get theirs when the time comes. Bernie hasn't won the nomination yet, that's our priority. Or at least mine anyways.
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Post by Zingbot on Feb 6, 2020 14:36:58 GMT -5
Let me guess, our lord and savior Joe Biden is the way to go, Or perhaps a woman of color like Elizabeth Warren, maybe a shining beacon of charisma like Amy Klobuchar, or maybe a young energetic status quo white man like mayor pete(he's gay too!). I'll stick with Bernie, you don't have to kiss ass to get things passed, you have to fight. You're only proving my point. If only you and the rest of Bernie's supporters fought Trump and the Republicans with half the intensity that you do with other Democrats… Btw 'other democrats' are just republican lite. Might just vote for Trump to say fuck you to the establishment dems.
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Post by NYR on Feb 6, 2020 15:43:45 GMT -5
You're only proving my point. If only you and the rest of Bernie's supporters fought Trump and the Republicans with half the intensity that you do with other Democrats… Btw 'other democrats' are just republican lite. Might just vote for Trump to say fuck you to the establishment dems. Let me see if I get this right. You're fine with another four years of (expanding) travel bans, migrant kids kidnapped and tortured, open corruption, attacks on the press, a judiciary packed with uber-conservatives, neo-Nazis backed by the president, and persistent climate change denial because… *checks notes* …your guy might not end up winning the Democratic nomination? It's shocking that some people who claim to be on the left can say this with a straight face. All it says is that you don't give a shit about brown people separated from their families. Who cares about those kids at the border who’ll stay stuck in detention? Who gives a shit about the rise of white supremacists? Judging by that answer, certainly not you. There is a neo-fascist sitting in the White House. But hey, you're not affected by the Muslim Ban, so it's all good, right? You should be ashamed. But thanks for proving my point, I guess.
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Post by Zingbot on Feb 6, 2020 16:04:34 GMT -5
Btw 'other democrats' are just republican lite. Might just vote for Trump to say fuck you to the establishment dems. Let me see if I get this right. You're fine with another four years of (expanding) travel bans, migrant kids kidnapped and tortured, open corruption, attacks on the press, a judiciary packed with uber-conservatives, neo-Nazis backed by the president, and persistent climate change denial because… *checks notes* …your guy might not end up winning the Democratic nomination? It's shocking that some people who claim to be on the left can say this with a straight face. All it says is that you don't give a shit about brown people separated from their families. Who cares about those kids at the border who’ll stay stuck in detention? Who gives a shit about the rise of white supremacists? Judging by that answer, certainly not you. There is a neo-fascist sitting in the White House. But hey, you're not affected by the Muslim Ban, so it's all good, right? You should be ashamed. But thanks for proving my point, I guess. I think you took that a little to literally. Though if it comes down to Biden I won't vote. As a side note, I'd never actually vote for Trump. I said that more out of anger against the incompetent and disgusting Democratic party.
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Post by NYR on Feb 6, 2020 16:13:43 GMT -5
Let me see if I get this right. You're fine with another four years of (expanding) travel bans, migrant kids kidnapped and tortured, open corruption, attacks on the press, a judiciary packed with uber-conservatives, neo-Nazis backed by the president, and persistent climate change denial because… *checks notes* …your guy might not end up winning the Democratic nomination? It's shocking that some people who claim to be on the left can say this with a straight face. All it says is that you don't give a shit about brown people separated from their families. Who cares about those kids at the border who’ll stay stuck in detention? Who gives a shit about the rise of white supremacists? Judging by that answer, certainly not you. There is a neo-fascist sitting in the White House. But hey, you're not affected by the Muslim Ban, so it's all good, right? You should be ashamed. But thanks for proving my point, I guess. I think you took that a little to literally. Though if it comes down to Biden I won't vote. This is no laughing matter. The stakes are too high to not vote against Trump, no matter who the Democratic candidate is. That includes Biden. A non-conservative staying at home may as well be a vote for Trump… and four more years of everything I described above. At least, for all his conservative bluster, Cheeks is decent enough not to vote.
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Post by Zingbot on Feb 6, 2020 16:18:31 GMT -5
I think you took that a little to literally. Though if it comes down to Biden I won't vote. This is no laughing matter. The stakes are too high to not vote against Trump, no matter who the Democratic candidate is. That includes Biden. A non-conservative staying at home may as well be a vote for Trump… and four more years of everything I described above. At least, for all his conservative bluster, Cheeks is decent enough not to vote. To clarify my full position: I will in no case vote for Trump at all. I said that because I am disgusted and disappointed with the Democratic party. I'd vote for any democrat except for Klobuchar, Biden, or Bloomberg. I'd even vote for Mayor Pete.
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Post by NYR on Feb 6, 2020 16:55:34 GMT -5
This is no laughing matter. The stakes are too high to not vote against Trump, no matter who the Democratic candidate is. That includes Biden. A non-conservative staying at home may as well be a vote for Trump… and four more years of everything I described above. At least, for all his conservative bluster, Cheeks is decent enough not to vote. To clarify my full position: I will in no case vote for Trump at all. I said that because I am disgusted and disappointed with the Democratic party. I'd vote for any democrat except for Klobuchar, Biden, or Bloomberg. I'd even vote for Mayor Pete. And I'll say it again: staying home is a vote for Trump. So be prepared to hold your nose if any centrist "establishment" candidate you don't like becomes the nominee, as any Democrat is miles better than Trump. We need all hands on deck. Everyone. Socialists, liberals, moderates, centrists, Independents, even conservatives. Anything to beat Trump in November.
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Post by The Escapist on Feb 6, 2020 22:52:10 GMT -5
Vote for whoever is best on climate change.
That's really all there is to it at this point.
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