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Post by mkoasis on Aug 6, 2017 14:14:51 GMT -5
For all the tinkering we fans do on albums tracklistings, I'm wondering...do we know (or will we know) of any original tracklistings that differed from the final versions that we got?
For instance, Fade Away, Step Out, and Lets all Make Believe were pushed off the final cut last minute - for different reasons. Step Out for copyright, we know the Stevie Wonder story.
Fade Away apparently because of Slide Away (though Slide Away has been round since late 93 with Noel doing an acoustic version for radio RTE I think?).
Make Believe was initially supposed to be the opener for SOTSOG, then kept getting pushed off until ICSAL finally booted it off.
Lyla was a last minute inclusion. I'm curious as to what Noel imagined the tracklist to be without it, especially as he had reservations about LTBL too. I think ABWR was supposed to end the album.
Then there was the B-side Ourselves album that was supposed to come out in 96. I think the tracklisting is given in Paolo Hewitt's book.
(Am I asking anything really? I don't know...I think i'm just rambling on the subject)
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Post by Lennon2217 on Aug 6, 2017 14:21:17 GMT -5
For all the tinkering we fans do on albums tracklistings, I'm wondering...do we know (or will we know) of any original tracklistings that differed from the final versions that we got? For instance, Fade Away, Step Out, and Lets all Make Believe were pushed off the final cut last minute - for different reasons. Step Out for copyright, we know the Stevie Wonder story. Fade Away apparently because of Slide Away (though Slide Away has been round since late 93 with Noel doing an acoustic version for radio RTE I think?). Make Believe was initially supposed to be the opener for SOTSOG, then kept getting pushed off until ICSAL finally booted it off. Lyla was a last minute inclusion. I'm curious as to what Noel imagined the tracklist to be without it, especially as he had reservations about LTBL too. I think ABWR was supposed to end the album. Then there was the B-side Ourselves album that was supposed to come out in 96. I think the tracklisting is given in Paolo Hewitt's book. (Am I asking anything really? I don't know...I think i'm just rambling on the subject) I'm not gonna beat around the bush here. Don't Believe The Truth was a hot mess. It begun in exciting new fashion with Death In Vegas producing. Finally modern!!!!! But that didn't last and the sessions were deemed lifeless (polishing up turds). Then Noel tried to produce it himself over that spring/summer. Again the album was lacking. Next they brought in Dave Sardy who did his best to scrap together the best of the batch but even that was lacking like you said. Noel had to include Lyla and The Importance of Being Idle towards the end. Neither had anything to do with Sardy and were the two big singles. Even a lot of the final product seems unfinished (The Meaning of Soul, Love Like A Bomb). Its called a great comeback but comeback from what? Heathen Chemistry had bigger singles and sold more. Tour size was the same. What comeback? ?
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Post by mkoasis on Aug 6, 2017 14:25:16 GMT -5
It begun in exciting new fashion with Death In Vegas producing. Finally modern!!!!! But that didn't last and the sessions were deemed lifeless (polishing up turds). I really, really hope we hear this one day. We probably won't. But I keep imagining/hoping it will be like Scorpio Rising, but I'm sure I'll be wrong.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Aug 6, 2017 14:29:43 GMT -5
For all the tinkering we fans do on albums tracklistings, I'm wondering...do we know (or will we know) of any original tracklistings that differed from the final versions that we got? For instance, Fade Away, Step Out, and Lets all Make Believe were pushed off the final cut last minute - for different reasons. Step Out for copyright, we know the Stevie Wonder story. Fade Away apparently because of Slide Away (though Slide Away has been round since late 93 with Noel doing an acoustic version for radio RTE I think?). Make Believe was initially supposed to be the opener for SOTSOG, then kept getting pushed off until ICSAL finally booted it off. Lyla was a last minute inclusion. I'm curious as to what Noel imagined the tracklist to be without it, especially as he had reservations about LTBL too. I think ABWR was supposed to end the album. Then there was the B-side Ourselves album that was supposed to come out in 96. I think the tracklisting is given in Paolo Hewitt's book. (Am I asking anything really? I don't know...I think i'm just rambling on the subject) That ended up being The Masterplan b-side compilation. If you are referring to Noel's quote in early 2006 about a 2nd b-side compilation of material post 2000, well I'm glad the record company passed. There was no need for it. None of the post 2000 b-sides had the glory of the 90s. Nothing special overall. Noel sings like 90% of them. Would feel like a Noel solo album and finally Oasis basically stopped making b-sides in the end. Whats a b-side anyway in 2017? That era is over. Forever.
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Post by oasis6 on Aug 6, 2017 15:06:59 GMT -5
What's the best source to read up on the DIV sessions? Or if there is no source, anyone able to answer these?
Were the songs DIV versions of what we got on DBTT, or were they songs that have never heard the light of day?
How far were they in the process before they got scraped?
Anything surface at all of these? Even like a 10 second muffled recording?
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Post by oasis6 on Aug 6, 2017 15:23:36 GMT -5
For all the tinkering we fans do on albums tracklistings, I'm wondering...do we know (or will we know) of any original tracklistings that differed from the final versions that we got? For instance, Fade Away, Step Out, and Lets all Make Believe were pushed off the final cut last minute - for different reasons. Step Out for copyright, we know the Stevie Wonder story. Fade Away apparently because of Slide Away (though Slide Away has been round since late 93 with Noel doing an acoustic version for radio RTE I think?). Make Believe was initially supposed to be the opener for SOTSOG, then kept getting pushed off until ICSAL finally booted it off. Lyla was a last minute inclusion. I'm curious as to what Noel imagined the tracklist to be without it, especially as he had reservations about LTBL too. I think ABWR was supposed to end the album. Then there was the B-side Ourselves album that was supposed to come out in 96. I think the tracklisting is given in Paolo Hewitt's book. (Am I asking anything really? I don't know...I think i'm just rambling on the subject) Still their biggest blunder imo. The Masterplan being left off didn't matter. The album was still amazing (Though the Masterplan on it, would basically be perfection) and it drives the narrative of the band having epic b-sides. But SOTSOG sorely needed LAMB. Now it just gets lost like all post-98 bsides. If Stay Young were the first single on BHN, LAMB then 2nd on SOTSOG, you add that with the success of SCYHO and Lyla, the generalists have something to go on that they were at least relevant for a decade rather than for a couple years. The people who only know Wonderwall? Can't help their sorry souls.
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Post by morning_rain on Aug 6, 2017 15:24:11 GMT -5
What's the best source to read up on the DIV sessions? Or if there is no source, anyone able to answer these? Were the songs DIV versions of what we got on DBTT, or were they songs that have never heard the light of day? How far were they in the process before they got scraped? Anything surface at all of these? Even like a 10 second muffled recording? I'm speaking from memory here but I think the album was finished and it only needed mastering or something like that. So there's a full unreleased Oasis album out there in some shelf gathering dust. Some songs ended up in DBTT in different form, but there are others like Velvet Building which ended up being Flick of the Finger. No tracklist has ever surfaced. Again I'm talking from memory, it'd be nice to read something about it. For me this is the real holy grail of Oasis.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Aug 6, 2017 15:32:18 GMT -5
What's the best source to read up on the DIV sessions? Or if there is no source, anyone able to answer these? Were the songs DIV versions of what we got on DBTT, or were they songs that have never heard the light of day? How far were they in the process before they got scraped? Anything surface at all of these? Even like a 10 second muffled recording? I'm speaking from memory here but I think the album was finished and it only needed mastering or something like that. So there's a full unreleased Oasis album out there in some shelf gathering dust. Some songs ended up in DBTT in different form, but there are others like Velvet Building which ended up being Flick of the Finger. No tracklist has ever surfaced. Again I'm talking from memory, it'd be nice to read something about it. For me this is the real holy grail of Oasis. Wasn't I Can See It Now a DIV track? I thought I read that on this forum, somewhere. Regardless, I really like ICSIN - and I normally dislike instrumentals. I'll tell you this for free: It shits all over A Quick Peep, although the benchmark for that is indeed pretty low!
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Post by oasis6 on Aug 6, 2017 15:51:41 GMT -5
What's the best source to read up on the DIV sessions? Or if there is no source, anyone able to answer these? Were the songs DIV versions of what we got on DBTT, or were they songs that have never heard the light of day? How far were they in the process before they got scraped? Anything surface at all of these? Even like a 10 second muffled recording? I'm speaking from memory here but I think the album was finished and it only needed mastering or something like that. So there's a full unreleased Oasis album out there in some shelf gathering dust. Some songs ended up in DBTT in different form, but there are others like Velvet Building which ended up being Flick of the Finger. No tracklist has ever surfaced. Again I'm talking from memory, it'd be nice to read something about it. For me this is the real holy grail of Oasis. Interesting stuff regarding Flick of the Finger. This is why I keep bringing up the "BDI, NGHFB best work would be some of the top tunes on post-BHN Oasis albums" notion. Some people choose to completely dismiss the two, but I mean some of the newer stuff that has surfaced that we've heard about for 15 years would look better on those albums than their filler. The Roller, Lock All The Doors, Record Machine, Flick of the Finger, Freaky Teeth, Evil Eye etc... > a lot of HC, DBTT & DOYS filler.
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Post by deadman on Aug 6, 2017 16:21:27 GMT -5
There's a handful of Definitely Maybe and 2nd album tracklistings in Noel's notebook. There's also a Don't Believe The Truth early tracklisting with Stop the Clocks on there.
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Post by discworld on Aug 6, 2017 16:53:37 GMT -5
I am really curious about DOYS : - no shock of the lightning, no falling down at first - High Horse Lady added following Liam's wedding
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Post by Lennon2217 on Aug 6, 2017 20:10:58 GMT -5
For all the tinkering we fans do on albums tracklistings, I'm wondering...do we know (or will we know) of any original tracklistings that differed from the final versions that we got? For instance, Fade Away, Step Out, and Lets all Make Believe were pushed off the final cut last minute - for different reasons. Step Out for copyright, we know the Stevie Wonder story. Fade Away apparently because of Slide Away (though Slide Away has been round since late 93 with Noel doing an acoustic version for radio RTE I think?). Make Believe was initially supposed to be the opener for SOTSOG, then kept getting pushed off until ICSAL finally booted it off. Lyla was a last minute inclusion. I'm curious as to what Noel imagined the tracklist to be without it, especially as he had reservations about LTBL too. I think ABWR was supposed to end the album. Then there was the B-side Ourselves album that was supposed to come out in 96. I think the tracklisting is given in Paolo Hewitt's book. (Am I asking anything really? I don't know...I think i'm just rambling on the subject) Still their biggest blunder imo. The Masterplan being left off didn't matter. The album was still amazing (Though the Masterplan on it, would basically be perfection) and it drives the narrative of the band having epic b-sides. But SOTSOG sorely needed LAMB. Now it just gets lost like all post-98 bsides. If Stay Young were the first single on BHN, LAMB then 2nd on SOTSOG, you add that with the success of SCYHO and Lyla, the generalists have something to go on that they were at least relevant for a decade rather than for a couple years. The people who only know Wonderwall? Can't help their sorry souls. Ok, lets say you are right. Add Lets All Make Believe on SOTSOG. Does that really change the fate of that album? Probably not. This is another big Oasis myth. Nothing was saving that album except maybe 5-6 new songs. Shit, I think all USA edition came with a bonus CD containing Lets All Make Believe. I know mine did. Guess what? Didn't make it sell better or worse. Adding that song literally changes nothing. All Oasis fans got that song in early 2000s anyway. Its not like nobody knows it.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Aug 6, 2017 20:12:29 GMT -5
What's the best source to read up on the DIV sessions? Or if there is no source, anyone able to answer these? Were the songs DIV versions of what we got on DBTT, or were they songs that have never heard the light of day? How far were they in the process before they got scraped? Anything surface at all of these? Even like a 10 second muffled recording? This is the only thing that ever made it out.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Aug 6, 2017 20:17:22 GMT -5
What's the best source to read up on the DIV sessions? Or if there is no source, anyone able to answer these? Were the songs DIV versions of what we got on DBTT, or were they songs that have never heard the light of day? How far were they in the process before they got scraped? Anything surface at all of these? Even like a 10 second muffled recording? This is the only thing that ever made it out. And it's fucking BIBLICAL. No, really, it is.
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Post by freddy838 on Aug 6, 2017 21:31:31 GMT -5
There's a handful of Definitely Maybe and 2nd album tracklistings in Noel's notebook. There's also a Don't Believe The Truth early tracklisting with Stop the Clocks on there. Yes I remember an early NME review (I guess it was probably more a preview) that had Stop The Clocks listed on it. I'm not sure who was on vocals for that version.
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Post by oasis6 on Aug 6, 2017 22:10:24 GMT -5
Still their biggest blunder imo. The Masterplan being left off didn't matter. The album was still amazing (Though the Masterplan on it, would basically be perfection) and it drives the narrative of the band having epic b-sides. But SOTSOG sorely needed LAMB. Now it just gets lost like all post-98 bsides. If Stay Young were the first single on BHN, LAMB then 2nd on SOTSOG, you add that with the success of SCYHO and Lyla, the generalists have something to go on that they were at least relevant for a decade rather than for a couple years. The people who only know Wonderwall? Can't help their sorry souls. Ok, lets say you are right. Add Lets All Make Believe on SOTSOG. Does that really change the fate of that album? Probably not. This is another big Oasis myth. Nothing was saving that album except maybe 5-6 new songs. Shit, I think all USA edition came with a bonus CD containing Lets All Make Believe. I know mine did. Guess what? Didn't make it sell better or worse. Adding that song literally changes nothing. All Oasis fans got that song in early 2000s anyway. Its not like nobody knows it. Wouldn't have saved it. Just would have given it that extra kick. No missing song (that exists) really could have saved Oasis post-BHN (the music trend going to shit didn't help either).
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Post by oasis6 on Aug 6, 2017 22:12:05 GMT -5
What's the best source to read up on the DIV sessions? Or if there is no source, anyone able to answer these? Were the songs DIV versions of what we got on DBTT, or were they songs that have never heard the light of day? How far were they in the process before they got scraped? Anything surface at all of these? Even like a 10 second muffled recording? This is the only thing that ever made it out. Didn't realize this was from the DIV sessions. You take this and something similar to Scorpio Rising. Well you have the start of GREAT.
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Post by spaneli on Aug 6, 2017 22:23:18 GMT -5
This is the only thing that ever made it out. And it's fucking BIBLICAL. No, really, it is. Erm, in my opinion it's not. It's a 4 minute plodding song that quite literally goes nowhere. It's the same 3 musical and melodic lines happening for 4 minutes. It most likely should be only 2 minutes and even then it wouldn't be more than a nice bonus track oddity. I'm of the personal opinion that the DIV sessions probably sound a lot like this. Decent musical ideas, but ideas that weren't interesting enough to warrant full songs.
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Post by jupi on Aug 7, 2017 3:28:36 GMT -5
What's the best source to read up on the DIV sessions? Or if there is no source, anyone able to answer these? Were the songs DIV versions of what we got on DBTT, or were they songs that have never heard the light of day? How far were they in the process before they got scraped? Anything surface at all of these? Even like a 10 second muffled recording? In 2008 ten DBTT demos/outtakes were leaked online along with the live version of Stop The Clocks, but apparently they weren't from the DIV sessions. You can read the topics from the time of leak here and here, and hear the songs here along with some other outtakes/demos from that era. Back to the topic: High Horse Lady and Ain't Got Nothing were earmarked as B-sides. They were included on the final tracklisting because Liam didn't record his vocals for songs that were supposed to be on the album. Or that's what Noel said...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2017 3:37:01 GMT -5
Be Here Now: Stay Young was supposed to be on it, but was dropped after Noel wrote Magic Pie in the studio. This makes me wonder what Noel sung was on Be Here Now before he put Magic Pie on there.
Noel had an idea to put an instrumental song after every song, but that would have made it a double album so he dropped it. (Is that instrumental from the reissue something that he wanted after every song?)
It's Gettin' Better (Man!!) was supposed to end the album.
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Post by morning_rain on Aug 7, 2017 4:30:19 GMT -5
About the DIV Sessions:
"Death In Vegas : It got a bit difficult at the end but that's it. We recorded the whole album, spent a month doing it and, without going into too many details, what was going to be happening was five of the twelve tracks were going to be ones that we'd worked on. I wanted to make something that was really out there, that would take the music to a different psychedelic level, which I thought we could bring to the table, but you forget they're a multi-million pound industry. It's fair enough for a band like us to change our course and direction, and while it sounded good on paper, I think the reality for them was too much. I'm not talking about taking them electronic or anything like that, we were trying to make it more of a studio album along the lines of what Geroge Martin used to do (The Beatles' legendary producer) on Sergeant Peppers. I wanted to take it really out there. As far as the whole experience was concerned, it was great, I don't regret doing it, though it was a little frustrating."
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Post by morning_rain on Aug 7, 2017 4:34:06 GMT -5
This makes me wonder what Noel sung was on Be Here Now before he put Magic Pie on there. Going Nowhere?
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Post by XTRMNTRSCREAM on Aug 7, 2017 5:48:42 GMT -5
I think a lot of the forum has hyped up Death In Vegas, myself included to a mythical level. But Richard and Tim are not geniuses.
In fact, I last heard Richard was producing an album for a porn star.
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Post by ricardogce on Aug 7, 2017 5:54:29 GMT -5
This is the only thing that ever made it out. And it's fucking BIBLICAL. No, really, it is. It's Mucky Fingers stretched out to four minutes (yeah I know MF IS four minutes long, this manages to make it feel short and sweet) with some generic "trippy" production thrown in. Nice enough for a second B-side. "Biblical"? Have a laydown, man.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2017 6:48:28 GMT -5
I think a lot of the forum has hyped up Death In Vegas, myself included to a mythical level. But Richard and Tim are not geniuses. In fact, I last heard Richard was producing an album for a porn star. Yeah, I agree they often get overhyped. None of their albums imo are proper amazing from start to finish, but they've got a nice variety of high points without sticking to one style too much* (e.g. All That Glitters, Dirt, Dirge, Girls, Hands Around My Throat, Your Loft My Acid, Mind Control...). *in contrast to Noel. Btw, on your last point, I think you're referring to Transmission, which was a Death in Vegas album featuring Sasha Grey, rather than a Sasha Grey album produced by DIV (personally I think it's one of their strongest overall albums, even if it doesn't contain much in the way of singles or anything near the style of the techno/psych-rock of Scorpio Rising or The Contino Sessions).
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