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Post by thomaslivesforever on Jul 5, 2022 10:53:09 GMT -5
Why would Scotland not want to take its chances outside this fucking shithole union governed by a load of Etonian wankers? Well, Gove is a Scot...
and in the past Blair & Brown were too... Salmond went to St Andrews, which isn't exactly a jumped up Tech college. And if every time a national govt was elected that more than half the population didn't agree with and a secession followed, we'd be down to being run by the loudest person in our own street by now
The main reluctance is based on economic concerns. If you took that out they would leave tomorrow via huge majority. Gove? What difference does he make? 😂 it’s not difficult to see why the Scots want out.
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Post by yeahyeahyeahyeah on Jul 5, 2022 12:36:55 GMT -5
Well, Gove is a Scot...
and in the past Blair & Brown were too... Salmond went to St Andrews, which isn't exactly a jumped up Tech college. And if every time a national govt was elected that more than half the population didn't agree with and a secession followed, we'd be down to being run by the loudest person in our own street by now
The main reluctance is based on economic concerns. If you took that out they would leave tomorrow via huge majority. Gove? What difference does he make? 😂 it’s not difficult to see why the Scots want out. saying that the Scots put economic concerns above all else is rather a sad old trope isn't it?
I think you'll find that many, many proud Scots are also proud of their shared heritage with England and the rest of the UK and don't wish to see it destroyed for many others reasons that whether it'll be a quid or a euro in their future digital wallets... certainly applies to most that i know personally.
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Post by thomaslivesforever on Jul 5, 2022 13:11:46 GMT -5
The main reluctance is based on economic concerns. If you took that out they would leave tomorrow via huge majority. Gove? What difference does he make? 😂 it’s not difficult to see why the Scots want out. saying that the Scots put economic concerns above all else is rather a sad old trope isn't it? I think you'll find that many, many proud Scots are also proud of their shared heritage with England and the rest of the UK and don't wish to see it destroyed for many others reasons that whether it'll be a quid or a euro in their future digital wallets... certainly applies to most that i know personally.
People’s livelihoods and prosperity do not constitute a sad old trope. Brexit has shackled them to a corpse, but could leaving the Union be worse? That is a perfectly reasonable concern. We will always have a shared heritage, the history of England and Scotland didn’t begin in 1707 and won’t end with the Union being dissolved.
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Post by globe on Jul 5, 2022 15:16:50 GMT -5
Your last point re racist undercurrent - where are you actually getting that from? I’m guessing you are English, right? Have you ever been to Scotland? Were you racially abused for being English when you were here? There are thousands of English (and Welsh) people who now live in Scotland who are part of the independence movement (my wife included). Was there a racist undertone to the majority of people in England voting to leave the EU? There were plenty of accusations of racism re the Brexit vote, and I'm sure a small minority would probably fall into that bracket. In the same way, many socialists and left-leaning people voted for Brexit in the footsteps of names like Tony Benn, Bob Crowe and of course Corbyn. The only reason the 'red wall' seats went to Boris in the last election was down to labour voters wanting brexit. If corbyn had stuck to his long held beliefs he would have been prime minister to this day probably.
But if you don't think there's an anti-English element to this indy debate you are either not being honest or are closing your eyes to stark realities. I have indeed spent a great deal of time in Scotland, although never lived there. When I was much younger I was at my (scots) girlfriend's family home in semi-rural west scotland. I was in the front room with her dad when the SNP bloke came round for the months subs or something. got introduced (not as being from down south) and didn't say much, but had a wonderful half hour watching her dad squirm as the SNP bloke was out and out racist about the English (as he was no doubt every visit) and her dad couldn't join in (as he no doubt did usually). I've got loads of funny stories about being at the butt of 'racism' from the Scots, but I think it's pretty funny all in all, water off a duck's back and all that. What i don't like to think is that similar attitudes will be a cause for even a very small minority to swing a vote that chucks away centuries of co-operation between people who, in my view, are actually all from the same country.
What can I say, there are bell-ends everywhere. I mean you only have to look at some of the posts on this thread from one of your fellow countrymen to see the same old tropes about the Scots, Welsh and Irish being wheeled out eh? As for being the same country- have you ever tried spending a Scottish bank note in England? As for Gove- he’s so Scottish that he puts on a fake English accent. A total clown.
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Post by yeahyeahyeahyeah on Jul 5, 2022 17:18:02 GMT -5
saying that the Scots put economic concerns above all else is rather a sad old trope isn't it? I think you'll find that many, many proud Scots are also proud of their shared heritage with England and the rest of the UK and don't wish to see it destroyed for many others reasons that whether it'll be a quid or a euro in their future digital wallets... certainly applies to most that i know personally.
People’s livelihoods and prosperity do not constitute a sad old trope. Brexit has shackled them to a corpse, but could leaving the Union be worse? That is a perfectly reasonable concern. We will always have a shared heritage, the history of England and Scotland didn’t begin in 1707 and won’t end with the Union being dissolved. sometimes it's worth asking in internet discussions if english is your first language?
If not let me know and I'll happily use more understandable words than 'trope'...
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Post by yeahyeahyeahyeah on Jul 5, 2022 17:29:53 GMT -5
There were plenty of accusations of racism re the Brexit vote, and I'm sure a small minority would probably fall into that bracket. In the same way, many socialists and left-leaning people voted for Brexit in the footsteps of names like Tony Benn, Bob Crowe and of course Corbyn. The only reason the 'red wall' seats went to Boris in the last election was down to labour voters wanting brexit. If corbyn had stuck to his long held beliefs he would have been prime minister to this day probably.
But if you don't think there's an anti-English element to this indy debate you are either not being honest or are closing your eyes to stark realities. I have indeed spent a great deal of time in Scotland, although never lived there. When I was much younger I was at my (scots) girlfriend's family home in semi-rural west scotland. I was in the front room with her dad when the SNP bloke came round for the months subs or something. got introduced (not as being from down south) and didn't say much, but had a wonderful half hour watching her dad squirm as the SNP bloke was out and out racist about the English (as he was no doubt every visit) and her dad couldn't join in (as he no doubt did usually). I've got loads of funny stories about being at the butt of 'racism' from the Scots, but I think it's pretty funny all in all, water off a duck's back and all that. What i don't like to think is that similar attitudes will be a cause for even a very small minority to swing a vote that chucks away centuries of co-operation between people who, in my view, are actually all from the same country.
What can I say, there are bell-ends everywhere. I mean you only have to look at some of the posts on this thread from one of your fellow countrymen to see the same old tropes about the Scots, Welsh and Irish being wheeled out eh? As for being the same country- have you ever tried spending a Scottish bank note in England? As for Gove- he’s so Scottish that he puts on a fake English accent. A total clown. true words, there are good and bad of all peoples of any colour, creed or nationality.
I have actually insisted on a london cabbie taking a royal bank of scotland (or maybe clydesdale?) twenty quid note once! (might have been because it was clear he wasn't getting anything else though!)
Agree on Gove - although as he's the one who goes to Davos he probably actually runs everything
and getting it all back to Oasis.... one of the best, friendliest crowds I was ever in was Loch Lomond and (both jokingly and serious) aside about the anti-English thing, I've been welcomed into so many homes, shared great times and lots of alcohol and other stuff with brothers and sisters from north of the border. It's why I'd hate to see it all dumped in the bin of history...
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Post by thomaslivesforever on Jul 5, 2022 17:51:30 GMT -5
People’s livelihoods and prosperity do not constitute a sad old trope. Brexit has shackled them to a corpse, but could leaving the Union be worse? That is a perfectly reasonable concern. We will always have a shared heritage, the history of England and Scotland didn’t begin in 1707 and won’t end with the Union being dissolved. sometimes it's worth asking in internet discussions if english is your first language?
If not let me know and I'll happily use more understandable words than 'trope'... Yes please do. That being your only response make me think there’s little in the tank.
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Post by globe on Jul 6, 2022 1:47:22 GMT -5
What can I say, there are bell-ends everywhere. I mean you only have to look at some of the posts on this thread from one of your fellow countrymen to see the same old tropes about the Scots, Welsh and Irish being wheeled out eh? As for being the same country- have you ever tried spending a Scottish bank note in England? As for Gove- he’s so Scottish that he puts on a fake English accent. A total clown. true words, there are good and bad of all peoples of any colour, creed or nationality. I have actually insisted on a london cabbie taking a royal bank of scotland (or maybe clydesdale?) twenty quid note once! (might have been because it was clear he wasn't getting anything else though!) Agree on Gove - although as he's the one who goes to Davos he probably actually runs everything and getting it all back to Oasis.... one of the best, friendliest crowds I was ever in was Loch Lomond and (both jokingly and serious) aside about the anti-English thing, I've been welcomed into so many homes, shared great times and lots of alcohol and other stuff with brothers and sisters from north of the border. It's why I'd hate to see it all dumped in the bin of history...
The fact you had to insist that cabbie take the note says a lot, no? A Union of equals eh. So equal that 5 million of its population are told their money is worthless.
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Post by walterglass on Jul 6, 2022 3:48:31 GMT -5
There were plenty of accusations of racism re the Brexit vote, and I'm sure a small minority would probably fall into that bracket. In the same way, many socialists and left-leaning people voted for Brexit in the footsteps of names like Tony Benn, Bob Crowe and of course Corbyn. The only reason the 'red wall' seats went to Boris in the last election was down to labour voters wanting brexit. If corbyn had stuck to his long held beliefs he would have been prime minister to this day probably.
But if you don't think there's an anti-English element to this indy debate you are either not being honest or are closing your eyes to stark realities. I have indeed spent a great deal of time in Scotland, although never lived there. When I was much younger I was at my (scots) girlfriend's family home in semi-rural west scotland. I was in the front room with her dad when the SNP bloke came round for the months subs or something. got introduced (not as being from down south) and didn't say much, but had a wonderful half hour watching her dad squirm as the SNP bloke was out and out racist about the English (as he was no doubt every visit) and her dad couldn't join in (as he no doubt did usually). I've got loads of funny stories about being at the butt of 'racism' from the Scots, but I think it's pretty funny all in all, water off a duck's back and all that. What i don't like to think is that similar attitudes will be a cause for even a very small minority to swing a vote that chucks away centuries of co-operation between people who, in my view, are actually all from the same country.
What can I say, there are bell-ends everywhere. I mean you only have to look at some of the posts on this thread from one of your fellow countrymen to see the same old tropes about the Scots, Welsh and Irish being wheeled out eh? As for being the same country- have you ever tried spending a Scottish bank note in England? As for Gove- he’s so Scottish that he puts on a fake English accent. A total clown. Try to relax.
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Post by matt on Jul 6, 2022 7:47:06 GMT -5
What can I say, there are bell-ends everywhere. I mean you only have to look at some of the posts on this thread from one of your fellow countrymen to see the same old tropes about the Scots, Welsh and Irish being wheeled out eh? As for being the same country- have you ever tried spending a Scottish bank note in England? As for Gove- he’s so Scottish that he puts on a fake English accent. A total clown. Try to relax. Life may difficult for you but please don't post anymore, there's enough in this thread to use for a psychoanalytic profile of what's gone wrong in your head.
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Post by walterglass on Jul 6, 2022 9:59:00 GMT -5
Life may difficult for you but please don't post anymore, there's enough in this thread to use for a psychoanalytic profile of what's gone wrong in your head. Deep breaths, Dr Matt.
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Post by The Escapist on Jul 6, 2022 10:00:03 GMT -5
This thread is making me want to declare independence from England and I live here.
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Post by walterglass on Jul 6, 2022 10:02:28 GMT -5
This thread is making me want to declare independence from England and I live here. Braveheart had a similar effect on me. Then I realised it’s just a silly movie, like this is just a silly thread.
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Post by yeahyeahyeahyeah on Jul 6, 2022 10:59:31 GMT -5
sometimes it's worth asking in internet discussions if english is your first language?
If not let me know and I'll happily use more understandable words than 'trope'... Yes please do. That being your only response make me think there’s little in the tank. your response highlights the difference between us.
I made a genuine enquiry and offer to create a level playing field to facilitate a decent conversation/discussion, yet you revert to ad hominem attacks as on the 'podcast' thread.
No point me expecting a decent debate with you, I'll leave it there thanks
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Post by globe on Jul 6, 2022 13:11:01 GMT -5
What can I say, there are bell-ends everywhere. I mean you only have to look at some of the posts on this thread from one of your fellow countrymen to see the same old tropes about the Scots, Welsh and Irish being wheeled out eh? Braveheart had a similar effect on me. Then I realised it’s just a silly movie, like this is just a silly thread.
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Post by walterglass on Jul 6, 2022 17:26:30 GMT -5
What can I say, there are bell-ends everywhere. I mean you only have to look at some of the posts on this thread from one of your fellow countrymen to see the same old tropes about the Scots, Welsh and Irish being wheeled out eh? Braveheart had a similar effect on me. Then I realised it’s just a silly movie, like this is just a silly thread. www.google.co.uk/search?q=poe%27s+law&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safariPoe’s law. POE’S. LAW. Poe’s law. FTR I’m working class. From an under-privileged area of England. My family are Irish catholics. I have never voted Conservative and never would. I hate the fact Brexit happened. I hate the fact that people were stupid enough to buy in to the idea of Brexit and “sovereignty” and the thinly veiled racism involved. I hate that a few Etonians wrestled whatever power Brussels had over them. My former industrial town was revived due to European investment. If I was Scottish I would vote leave. If I was Scottish I would also try to chill out a bit.
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Post by globe on Jul 7, 2022 11:48:28 GMT -5
www.google.co.uk/search?q=poe%27s+law&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safariPoe’s law. POE’S. LAW. Poe’s law. FTR I’m working class. From an under-privileged area of England. My family are Irish catholics. I have never voted Conservative and never would. I hate the fact Brexit happened. I hate the fact that people were stupid enough to buy in to the idea of Brexit and “sovereignty” and the thinly veiled racism involved. I hate that a few Etonians wrestled whatever power Brussels had over them. My former industrial town was revived due to European investment. If I was Scottish I would vote leave. If I was Scottish I would also try to chill out a bit. Ok so you are from pretty much the same background as me and seem to hold lots of similar views. Just cut out the Braveheart stuff eh. We all know it was Hollywood shite. It was made 27 years ago- long before lots of the current SNP membership was even born. We want to leave that view of Scotland behind and build a new politics here.
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