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Post by davidjay on Sept 1, 2014 14:32:24 GMT -5
Inspired by some of the recent articles on Definitely Maybe, I contacted Anjali Dutt again with a couple more questions about how the album was made. She very kindly took the time to reply with the following information. Many thanks to her for helping out on this. I plan on incorporating this into her original interview on my site, but I thought people here might like to read the new info on here first. Tony McCarroll says in his autobiography that the band's original bass player, Paul "Guigsy" McGuigan, does not feature on the finished version of Definitely Maybe. Can you say if this is true?
Owen Morris has explained that his final mix of Definitely Maybe was mainly derived from multitracks recorded at Sawmills. And, at Sawmills, the tracks were recorded effectively "as live" with the whole band playing, with overdubs by Noel later. So, would it be fair to assume that Guigsy's basslines are on the multitrack tapes recorded at Sawmills, and on the mixes you completed at Eden Studios?
The one exception to this that I'm aware of is Slide Away, which was recorded with Dave Batchelor at Monnow Valley with overdubs by Noel at Eden, where it was also initially mixed. The Monnow Valley tracking sheet for Slide Away (which was recently on display in an Oasis exhibition) shows that Noel re-recorded the bass on that track, as well as several other parts. I guess the rumour that Guigsy didn't appear on the album may have stemmed from his absence on this track alone.
I was wondering if you recall whether Noel re-recorded the bass on all the tracks recorded at Sawmills as well? I've also attached another photo from the exhibition - the Sawmills tracking sheet for Live Forever. This doesn't seem to indicate that the bass was redone on that tune, but I'm not sure on any others.Anjali: I remember Noel re-doing the bass to Up in the Sky and how different it sounded afterwards; he has a very neat and tidy bass playing style. We all wished that Guigsy could have just got it right so that there would be his style in there but it was a tricky one with timing and it carried the main riff, so it really had to be perfect. The Live Forever tracking sheet shows the live bass and I can't remember any thoughts of wanting to replace it. Unless Owen replaced it onto the 'bass DI' track and there was no need to rename it. It would be entirely possible to feed the DI track out to an amp to get the extra low end. Generally, it was a straightforward part with little room for error and I think Guigsy played it just fine. Ditto with Cigarettes and Alcohol. It's a bit mean people suggesting these things now. He was a nice bloke who did his part uncomplaining, so what's the point [in them] starting unsubstantiated rumours? Did Noel also re-record the bass line on Rock 'n' Roll Star? That seems to me to be one of the few tracks on the final mix to have a prominent bass line. Owen has said that the released version of Rock 'n' Roll Star was a remix of the Sawmills recording. That said, I think the final mix has a slightly more elaborate (and more upfront) bass line than on the Eden Studios mix of the Sawmills take. Unfortunately I don't have a tracking sheet for that tune, but in case it's any help, here are the two versions on YouTube. Rock 'n' Roll Star (excerpt of Eden Studios mix): Rock 'n' Roll Star (Owen Morris's final album mix):Anjali: I have listened to all the versions of Rock 'n' Roll Star including mine and I can't hear any difference in the bass; or even a change of feel or emphasis, which you would hear despite a low mix level. So I think it's Guigsy but disguised, with the attack taken off to avoid highlighting any timing mismatches. I was interested to see the timeline for the song in the right-hand column; am I right in thinking that this would have been to assist a manual mix (i.e. without fader automation)? Anjali: The timings on the side of the tracking sheet is something I always do, initially to be able to quickly locate a verse or chorus professionally and quickly for playback or overdubs; and then I would record SMPTE code on track 24 for replaying computerised fader movements for mixing. I've enclosed another pic that may be of interest [click the thumbnail below to enlarge] a cassette of rough mixes from Eden Studios. I'm intrigued by the presence of I am the Walrus in the tracklisting. Was this a live version or did they attempt a studio cover? Am I right in thinking that Cigarettes and Alcohol and Digsy's Dinner were the only two final mixes on there, and the rest rough mixes?
(Above: cassette of rough mixes for Definitely Maybe completed at Eden Studios. Original photo by Rob from the Britpop store. Scan by Tom S). Anjali: It's great to see my handwriting on the cassette box and this can only mean that there was a studio recording of I am the Walrus and strangely enough, I do suddenly remember clearly that we did record it; it was very fluent and it was good. I imagine Ignition were probably asking for progress cassettes. So we sent up the mixes we had and roughs of the others, as annotated on the box. Do you recall the "Bring it on Down" recording session that Tony refers to in his biography? Mark Coyle talks about it briefly on the DVD, explaining that Bring it on Down was re-recorded (late in the day) at Eden Studios because Noel was dissatisfied with the drums on the existing recording. I'm a bit confused as it's not clear whether just the drums were re-done, or if the whole track was re-recorded there. Tony says in his book that Noel hired a session drummer (actually the Real People's drummer) to re-do the drums on that track but that his take was even worse than Tony's. After three poor attempts he took a break, during which Tony re-recorded the drums 'beat perfect' in one take, and this (much to Noel's annoyance, allegedly!) became the version used on the album. Anjali: Tony remembers correctly about Bring it on Down being re-recorded again at Eden. I think we may have done the whole thing over. But I don't remember which drummer did it, maybe someone from Paul Weller's band? The Real People mentioned that it was their drummer at the time, Tony Elson.
Anjali: Except I do think it was someone with something to do with Paul Weller and think it unlikely they would just go for someone who was just down for fun from Liverpool. I do recall everyone saying that [the drums] sounded wrong and then - with an amazing burst of energy - Tony suddenly delivered the one great take that we ran with. A bit like Guigsy in that he was not a great muso, but it sounded all wrong when he was replaced. And there were loads of people around, including The Real People and folk that Liam had found in the off license; far too many folk in fact. It's funny how some memories stick and get reinforced with repeated recall, and some just get totally forgotten. One other query that sprang to mind was related to this quote from Bonehead, on the large number of overdubs by Noel at Sawmills. Owen Morris also said that: Were there a lot of Noel's guitar parts to edit at the mix stage? Anjali: Yes, Noel did lay loads of guitar tracks: just another one... and then just another... no opposition from me, the ever-acquiescent muso's engineer! When we mixed it we just left them all in and pushed up the odd good riff, very much in the style and spirit of '60s and '70s music (very Neil Young/ Faces, as they wanted to be). This probably had a different effect than bringing them in in stages to build up a song, as Owen suggests. Thanks. The instruments sound well-defined and cleanly separated on the Eden Studios mix, perhaps despite the deliberate leakage on some elements of the multitrack recording (mentioned by Mark Coyle in the comment below). Did the inherent bleed on the parts of the recording pose any obstacles to getting good separation on the final mix?
Anjali: If you play a different riff or time a phrase differently, then you would hear a ghost of the original on the other mics; difficult if it’s a quiet spot in the tune. Rock n roll Stars intro riff is different, that would be hard to cover up. Anjali: This is true, so it’s hard to know why they didn’t stay true to their vision and allowed Owen to put so many effects on in the final mix. Of course, by then they didn’t have a say and, really, they didn’t have the musicianship or commitment to follow through their vision of a ‘big, fat 60/70’s analogue sound’. They were far more Marcus’s vision than Alan’s and had always been signed to Sony, contrary to the press legend. Anjali: One of my Sawmills photos has Liam playing a kazoo so it was more of a reality than you think. Still from "There We Were, Now Here We Are: The Making of Oasis", broadcast by Channel 4 in September 2004)
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Post by jaq515 on Sept 1, 2014 14:58:08 GMT -5
awesome thank you for this very cool and a studio 'walrus' that be very cool to hear
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Post by Gerhard on Sept 1, 2014 15:02:46 GMT -5
Thanks! very nice to read!
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Post by eva on Sept 1, 2014 15:25:46 GMT -5
Nice work, David. Cheers!
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Sept 1, 2014 15:27:57 GMT -5
That's cool, thanks for posting this
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Post by davidjay on Sept 1, 2014 15:49:34 GMT -5
You're welcome! Glad you found it interesting. Must admit I'd love to hear that studio take of Walrus!
I'll pass on your kind comments to Anjali.
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Post by Rain on Sept 1, 2014 16:02:14 GMT -5
I might post it on my site as well davidjay ,since you're internationally known oasis writer.
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Post by nutsngum on Sept 1, 2014 16:48:33 GMT -5
BIzarre that there's a studio take of Walrus and they didn't release it on the remaster.
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Post by defmaybe00 on Sept 1, 2014 17:24:55 GMT -5
Nice one David,thanks a lot
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Post by thepicturesgeneration on Sept 1, 2014 19:58:50 GMT -5
studio version of i am the walrus will be available on oasis' definitely maybe super deluxe 5 disc set available in 2024. it will include the original definitely maybe, all the b-sides, studio outtakes and a life size replica of liam's pajamas.
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Post by mkoasis on Sept 2, 2014 0:43:47 GMT -5
Top job David jay! Thanks for sharing, as always.
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Post by fiv3oclocksh4dow on Sept 2, 2014 1:15:36 GMT -5
No shit, would definitely like to hear that I am the walrus version! Very well done, juicy read.
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Post by His Royal Noelness on Sept 2, 2014 5:56:00 GMT -5
Always great to see a new thread by davidjay! Thanks man, very insightful read as always!
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Post by mimmihopps on Sept 2, 2014 7:17:19 GMT -5
Fantastic to read. Very interesting. Thanks for sharing, davidjay.
Anjali's comment about Bring It On Down re-recorded at Eden, he recalls that maybe someone from Weller's band has drummed. Steve White has played a drum for Weller for years until 2007 and Weller had an anthoer drummer before Steve, but it would be interesting if it was Steve who drummed for Bring It On Down at Eden. If he was, he would never have thought that his younger brother would play the same song live again and again years later.
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Post by His Royal Noelness on Sept 2, 2014 7:38:24 GMT -5
Fantastic to read. Very interesting. Thanks for sharing, davidjay. Anjali's comment about Bring It On Down re-recorded at Eden, he recalls that maybe someone from Weller's band has drummed. Steve White has played a drum for Weller for years until 2007 and Weller had an anthoer drummer before Steve, but it would be interesting if it was Steve who drummed for Bring It On Down at Eden. If he was, he would never have thought that his younger brother would play the same song live again and again years later. Did Alan every actually play Bring it on Down live?
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Post by davidjay on Sept 2, 2014 7:50:00 GMT -5
Fantastic to read. Very interesting. Thanks for sharing, davidjay. Anjali's comment about Bring It On Down re-recorded at Eden, he recalls that maybe someone from Weller's band has drummed. Steve White has played a drum for Weller for years until 2007 and Weller had an anthoer drummer before Steve, but it would be interesting if it was Steve who drummed for Bring It On Down at Eden. If he was, he would never have thought that his younger brother would play the same song live again and again years later. You're welcome. That's a good point mimmi, I'll see if I can get in touch with Steve and put this question to him.
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Post by davidjay on Sept 2, 2014 7:50:53 GMT -5
I might post it on my site as well davidjay ,since you're internationally known oasis writer. Thanks! An acknowledgement and link back to this thread would be appreciated if you did. Cheers!
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Post by themanwithnoname on Sept 2, 2014 8:50:41 GMT -5
Brilliant as always David, thank you.
Good to see you getting acknowledgement in the new rash of anniversary articles/specials too.
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Post by mimmihopps on Sept 2, 2014 12:25:39 GMT -5
Fantastic to read. Very interesting. Thanks for sharing, davidjay. Anjali's comment about Bring It On Down re-recorded at Eden, he recalls that maybe someone from Weller's band has drummed. Steve White has played a drum for Weller for years until 2007 and Weller had an anthoer drummer before Steve, but it would be interesting if it was Steve who drummed for Bring It On Down at Eden. If he was, he would never have thought that his younger brother would play the same song live again and again years later. Did Alan every actually play Bring it on Down live? No. My bad. Apologize. I didn't like Zak's drumming for this song during DBTT tour by the way. Fantastic to read. Very interesting. Thanks for sharing, davidjay. Anjali's comment about Bring It On Down re-recorded at Eden, he recalls that maybe someone from Weller's band has drummed. Steve White has played a drum for Weller for years until 2007 and Weller had an anthoer drummer before Steve, but it would be interesting if it was Steve who drummed for Bring It On Down at Eden. If he was, he would never have thought that his younger brother would play the same song live again and again years later. You're welcome. That's a good point mimmi, I'll see if I can get in touch with Steve and put this question to him. That would be great. Thanks again david. I just remembered that Steve White has played with The Style Council for years before Weller went on solo too.
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Post by deadman on Sept 2, 2014 12:42:43 GMT -5
Alan did play on Bring It On Down during the 2003 leg of the Heathen Chemistry tour.
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Post by zatine87 on Sept 2, 2014 14:18:15 GMT -5
Thanks a lot for sharing all this info. Very interesting.
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Post by mkoasis on Sept 2, 2014 14:27:02 GMT -5
Alan did play on Bring It On Down during the 2003 leg of the Heathen Chemistry tour. Yes, this is correct. They did a short run of gigs I think but opened with Bring It On Down. Alan drummed it very differently from Tony, and I can't recall offhand if Zak's drumming was like Alan's. I'll have to listen again.
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Post by vespa on Sept 3, 2014 3:09:06 GMT -5
They never ever played it like the early days..2005 tour the intro was poor and the guitars were far too clean..they should never have stopped using the early days sound and power chords it completely took away the sound of some of the songs. As for people listening to what tony said in the book ,i wouldnt read too much into it,its a known fact he didnt get on with guigsy and noel so hes had a dig here and there
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Post by freddy838 on Sept 3, 2014 13:47:21 GMT -5
Alan did play on Bring It On Down during the 2003 leg of the Heathen Chemistry tour. Yes, this is correct. They did a short run of gigs I think but opened with Bring It On Down. Alan drummed it very differently from Tony, and I can't recall offhand if Zak's drumming was like Alan's. I'll have to listen again. Zak sounded great on it at that Poole gig but then when it came to Glastonbury it was a disaster. Way, way too slow. I'm not sure Zak's drumming ever really suited Oasis like Chris's did on the last tour.
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Post by davidjay on Sept 4, 2014 14:19:26 GMT -5
mimmihopps Regarding the Bring it on Down session at Eden Studios. I emailed Steve White via his website and he kindly got back with the following info, explaining that, "my first contact was at the white room recording where noël and Paul dueted on talk tonight , it definitely wasn't me." Thanks again to Steve for taking the time to reply to this query.
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