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Post by girllikeabomb on Sept 28, 2021 3:44:22 GMT -5
Would have to see the shots (and hope to soon). Sure, you could shoot anything, but under Covid protocols large, multi-person scenes get very expensive and unwieldy. If it's just 5 actors with a digital background, that's different, but you'd still want a compelling reason to do it. If it's storytelling shots that are re-enacting something that happened 25 years ago but could not have been filmed at the time, that makes perfect sense. In any event, doesn't sound like any big deal. It does matter, it's not a movie, it's a documentary. It's like saying you can insert footage from Finsbury on the unplugged. Or nowadays Macca re-enacting a scene from Let It Be. i mean, wtf. Truth matter, if only little. If you don't have the material, don't do it; or find another way to tell the story. That's the problem with documentaries nowadays, they care little about the truth or facts. Sad that it comes to Oasis too. I've not seen the thing, so it can't really give an opinion. but if they gave it the Liam Gallagher documentary whatever the name was treatment, lying all along to tell "their" story, then that is sad. A documentary is like a work of an historian, or a journalist. Not a fan fiction. Nope, my friend, it really is fine. Ask a documentary filmmaker. Re-enactments and staging have been part of the history of docs since 1922's Nanook of the North. Re-enactments are allowed even under the strict Academy Award rules. While some of it can get a little ethically shady (more so when a doc targets a person or gets into political territory), for the most part it's considered part of the art form when used for good reasons (like showing an event for which no footage exists) or even purely creative reasons. All documentaries are telling a subjective story, that's the nature of the thing. (The minute you make a single edit, you have made a subjective choice.) But they are based on real events. Knebworth 1996 was a very real event ... even if the lead singer was a hologram. It truly does not matter if there or is or isn't a staged moment in the film. Doc or dramatic feature, you make the best film you can and you hope that it moves people. The filmmakers succeeded in doing that for a majority of the audience as you can see from the reaction here, on social media and in reviews. So what's to be negative about?
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Post by modxxii on Sept 28, 2021 4:27:52 GMT -5
Loved it so much, I almost cried during Slide Away. Great movie and a fantastic tribute to Oasis and their FANS.
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Post by mimmihopps on Sept 28, 2021 5:20:16 GMT -5
Who are the main character of this documentary? Nobody, but fans, those who witnessed these 2 legendary nights. Remember that.
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Post by andymorris on Sept 28, 2021 6:51:45 GMT -5
It does matter, it's not a movie, it's a documentary. It's like saying you can insert footage from Finsbury on the unplugged. Or nowadays Macca re-enacting a scene from Let It Be. i mean, wtf. Truth matter, if only little. If you don't have the material, don't do it; or find another way to tell the story. That's the problem with documentaries nowadays, they care little about the truth or facts. Sad that it comes to Oasis too. I've not seen the thing, so it can't really give an opinion. but if they gave it the Liam Gallagher documentary whatever the name was treatment, lying all along to tell "their" story, then that is sad. A documentary is like a work of an historian, or a journalist. Not a fan fiction. Nope, my friend, it really is fine. Ask a documentary filmmaker. Re-enactments and staging have been part of the history of docs since 1922's Nanook of the North. Re-enactments are allowed even under the strict Academy Award rules. While some of it can get a little ethically shady (more so when a doc targets a person or gets into political territory), for the most part it's considered part of the art form when used for good reasons (like showing an event for which no footage exists) or even purely creative reasons. All documentaries are telling a subjective story, that's the nature of the thing. (The minute you make a single edit, you have made a subjective choice.) But they are based on real events. Knebworth 1996 was a very real event ... even if the lead singer was a hologram. It truly does not matter if there or is or isn't a staged moment in the film. Doc or dramatic feature, you make the best film you can and you hope that it moves people. The filmmakers succeeded in doing that for a majority of the audience as you can see from the reaction here, on social media and in reviews. So what's to be negative about? Well we disagree again. Documentaries can re-enact, but it has to be obvious, if it used at "fake" actual footage, then it's misleading the viewers. It's saying "that stuff happened", when in fact it didn't. It doesn't matter if they are allowed or not, what I meant was : is is passed as real footage ? If it, then that's a problem. Of course docs are subjective in a way, they tell a story, but imagine a documentary about Egypt or UFOs or Kennedy not being clear about what is actually true and was has been staged, some do, some don't. And that's the very fine line between a good documentary and someone trying to make a name for himself. It's creating false information. Usually, you can tell if a documentary is made by a journalist or by a filmmaker. Viewers are taking docs as facts, as news, so they have to be factual as much as possible. It's not just entertainment. If it didn't happen, why say it did ? that's bothering me. Even if it's just some kid pretending to call for tickets. Or people pretending to be happy at a gig they didn't see coz they werent even born. I mean, wtf. But then again i have not seen it yet, so i'll keep my review for later cheers
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Post by tiger40 on Sept 28, 2021 12:48:09 GMT -5
I see that due to popular demand there's some extra tickets on sale for showing tomorrow across the UK.
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Post by girllikeabomb on Sept 28, 2021 15:07:25 GMT -5
But then again i have not seen it yet, so i'll keep my review for later cheers Not really worth arguing this one. There just is no controversy (and film is my actual career so it bores me to argue pointlessly about it). If you’re offended by re-enactments there are some in this doc (whether crowd footage was staged I’m doubtful but don’t know … but even before anyone here saw the film there was press about the film blending original footage, present-day interviews with band members and fans, and re-enactments, none of which is the slightest bit unusual ) There are also some re-enactments in many brilliant, award-winning docs that are considered among the best films of their time. So beware! P.S. When you see the Knebworth doc, will be curious to read your review. Try to just have fun, though.
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Post by electricsunday on Sept 28, 2021 20:02:35 GMT -5
I see that there's some new Knebworth merchandise available on the bands official website. Mind you, it doesn't really look very exciting. I didn't know what you were talking about but I think I finally stumbled across it. Buried under the music tab but not in merchandise. Those bottles are cute but I'm not paying 42 dollars apiece.
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Post by andymorris on Sept 29, 2021 2:16:46 GMT -5
But then again i have not seen it yet, so i'll keep my review for later cheers Not really worth arguing this one. There just is no controversy (and film is my actual career so it bores me to argue pointlessly about it). If you’re offended by re-enactments there are some in this doc (whether crowd footage was staged I’m doubtful but don’t know … but even before anyone here saw the film there was press about the film blending original footage, present-day interviews with band members and fans, and re-enactments, none of which is the slightest bit unusual ) There are also some re-enactments in many brilliant, award-winning docs that are considered among the best films of their time. So beware! P.S. When you see the Knebworth doc, will be curious to read your review. Try to just have fun, though. I'm not offended ! i'm not that generation, i dont care really, i just want things to be as true as possible, thats also why i'm bothered by Liam's solo career. Which is mostly fake from album #2 (not the #1). I'm just from the side of people where documentaries shoudlnt be movies made of fiction to raise emotion, and the truth comes next if they have time. That's it Your view is from an Hollywood perspective, and i respect that. It's fine as long as people who watch it are aware that stuff presented on screen is not 100% accurate. See the Let It Be movie, that apparently mislead generation of Beatles fans, me included, we'll see if they were really miserable... Same thing. People who make a documentary have a responsability, s'all i'm saying dear Bomb. Not particularly talking about the Oasis one, but in general. Respectfully.
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Post by tiger40 on Sept 29, 2021 13:09:16 GMT -5
I see that there's some new Knebworth merchandise available on the bands official website. Mind you, it doesn't really look very exciting. I didn't know what you were talking about but I think I finally stumbled across it. Buried under the music tab but not in merchandise. Those bottles are cute but I'm not paying 42 dollars apiece. Yeah, I had an email from the official website about the new Knebworth merchandise last week. It would be pointless me buying one of those bottles especially at that price because I don't use those sort of things.
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Post by girllikeabomb on Sept 29, 2021 14:27:09 GMT -5
I'm just from the side of people where documentaries shoudlnt be movies made of fiction to raise emotion, and the truth comes next if they have time. That's it Your view is from an Hollywood perspective, and i respect that. It's fine as long as people who watch it are aware that stuff presented on screen is not 100% accurate. See the Let It Be movie, that apparently mislead generation of Beatles fans, me included, we'll see if they were really miserable... Same thing. People who make a documentary have a responsability, s'all i'm saying dear Bomb. Not particularly talking about the Oasis one, but in general. Respectfully. “dear Bomb” … thanks for making me laugh, andymorris. And sorry if I was pretentious. It’s hard for me to talk about film without slipping into geekdom--I've seen too much, hahaha. But bottom line is that “the truth” is a slippery concept in filmmaking, because there’s always a POV. IIn the Knebworth film, Jake Scott took the view (whether it was his or came from others) that the story he wanted to tell was the thrill of the Oasis fan experience. There are many other ways you could come at telling the Knebworth story (Supersonic was really another, telling the story of how the hell they got there so fast in the first place), but that’s what he chose and therefore it makes perfect sense to re-enact what fans told him they experienced even though it wasn’t captured at the time. (Those experiences are still “true” even if a camera wasn’t there when they happened.) Similarly, Michael Lindsay Hogg’s “Let It Be” film came at the footage of the Beatles as the story of a rock band imploding, which fascinated people at the time (easy to forget the Beatles breaking up was not just a band thing but a cultural watershed.). Peter Jackson’s “Get Back” uses the same footage but is coming at it as the story of people who loved each other and were, even amid high stress, incredibly creative together. Both stories have a "truth" to them--there was misery and there were good times in that period, sometimes they can co-exist--so it’s not that either is lying. They’re just different ways of looking at history. There is of course such a thing as an outright fabrication in a film – if this film had, for example, said Liam was actually all along a diesel mechanic in Manchester and what people saw on stage was a hologram generated by the Illuminati and then interviewed “scientific expert Paul Gallagher” on the subject, that would probably be pretty suspect and controversial. But re-enactments and staging of moments that did happen (even in someone's distant memory or in a dream) but could not have been filmed are not usually seen as trying to put one over on the audience.
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Post by walterglass on Sept 29, 2021 14:53:23 GMT -5
In loosely related news: I once watched a “documentary” about a bear that ate a man. The man was wearing a tape recorder and the recording that sprung from the incident was played to the guy’s supposed GF.
I think it was by Werner Herzog, which might’ve lent it some credibility but I’m not having it.
I was livid by the end of the film.
Dirtbags.
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Post by defmaybe00 on Sept 29, 2021 15:45:37 GMT -5
Just watched it and honestly I loved it Here's some thoughts:
- I know it's not for everyone's taste as all artistic choices, but I thought it was great to re-live it all through the eyes of the fans The cinema here was full of people my age (I'm in my early 20s), if that's their target they got it right The way the people described the feelings and emotions, but also the practical side of things give you a perspective on what it was like
- They truly nailed the vibe imo The whole thing oozed joy and enthusiasm and put an emphasis of how much of a communal experience it was That's Oasis in a nutshell
- Critics may love to say Oasis convinced everyone they were great by saying it, but fuck them, I don't think there was a bad note throughout the film As Noel said, "we are worthy, enjoy it"
- There are re-enactments but they're pretty evident, and are just used to go along with what the fans are saying They're totally inoffensive
Also subtitles were fucking shit, but it was cool to see the place nearly packed on a week day
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Post by girllikeabomb on Sept 29, 2021 15:51:38 GMT -5
In loosely related news: I once watched a “documentary” about a bear that ate a man. The man was wearing a tape recorder and the recording that sprung from the incident was played to the guy’s supposed GF. I think it was by Werner Herzog, which might’ve lent it some credibility but I’m not having it. I was livid by the end of the film. Dirtbags. Mmmm, an interesting film to bring up but your memory betrays you. The audiotape was NOT played to the girlfriend but rather there's a very uncomfortable scene in which Herzog listens to the audio in her presence, turns it off quickly, visibly upset, and tells her to destroy the tape. It's true though that there are ethical (and filmmaking) questions that have been raised by that scene -- and that film is a good choice for talking about what truth is and how it is and isn't depicted in documentaries. Herzog, merciless though he can be, is clear though that he wouldn't have shown that scene even if there had been footage.
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Post by girllikeabomb on Sept 29, 2021 16:00:36 GMT -5
In loosely related news: I once watched a “documentary” about a bear that ate a man. The man was wearing a tape recorder and the recording that sprung from the incident was played to the guy’s supposed GF. I think it was by Werner Herzog, which might’ve lent it some credibility but I’m not having it. I was livid by the end of the film. Dirtbags. Also, can't be 100% sure about this, but this probably marks the first time that Herzog and Oasis at Knebworth have been discussed together!
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Post by walterglass on Sept 29, 2021 16:03:37 GMT -5
In loosely related news: I once watched a “documentary” about a bear that ate a man. The man was wearing a tape recorder and the recording that sprung from the incident was played to the guy’s supposed GF. I think it was by Werner Herzog, which might’ve lent it some credibility but I’m not having it. I was livid by the end of the film. Dirtbags. Mmmm, an interesting film to bring up but your memory betrays you. The audiotape was NOT played to the girlfriend but rather there's a very uncomfortable scene in which Herzog listens to the audio in her presence, turns it off quickly, visibly upset, and tells her to destroy the tape. It's true though that there are ethical (and filmmaking) questions that have been raised by that scene -- and that film is a good choice for talking about what truth is and how it is and isn't depicted in documentaries. Herzog, merciless though he can be, is clear though that he wouldn't have shown that scene even if there had been footage. Thank you for the correction ✋🏻🤚🏻 By the end of the film, with such an unlikely narrative and eccentric subjects, I was leaning very much toward it being a mockumentary? I was going through a big “docu” phase at the time. I think Man On Wire set it off, which IMO is a sensational film. Wonderful.
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Post by girllikeabomb on Sept 29, 2021 16:37:49 GMT -5
By the end of the film, with such an unlikely narrative and eccentric subjects, I was leaning very much toward it being a mockumentary? I was going through a big “docu” phase at the time. I think Man On Wire set it off, which IMO is a sensational film. Wonderful. Yeah, it does have a mockumentary feel because of Herzog's approach, which he calls "ecstatic truth," which tries to get to the way some moments are so intensely real that they become instead surreal and bizarre. The "grizzly man" was a real person, though ... we specialize in these types of eccentrics here in the USA. Man On a Wire is also a very beautiful and inspiring film. It's been a good time for docs lately if you're in the mood for them. Here's a decent list (I'd quibble with the rankings but many good films here). This one includes "Man On a Wire" and "Grizzly Man" and also three music docs: "Amy," "Searching for Sugar Man" and "20 Feet From Stardom." www.indiewire.com/feature/best-documentaries-21st-century-1201857688/
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Post by andymorris on Sept 30, 2021 1:40:22 GMT -5
Dont worry girllikeabomb, you didnt seem pretentious at all I perfectly understand your point of view, it's just i noticed a change in the way documentaries are made the last couple (or even 10-ple) of years, with sensationnalism being the main goal, not telling a true story. It's worrying in a way, you can compare that to the fake news across social media. People dont seem to care much about what is true or not nowadays, it's scary, as we've seen with Covid and 5G or whatever For instance, the Allen vs Farrow documentary, have you watched it ? Haven't had the time yet, i've just seen bits which were already cringeworthy, but apparently from the reviews, it's very biased and lacks facts or proof. Yet people will only remember this side of the story, which is far, far more complex. Just to make content, platform are willing to put out anything these days, regardless of quality. The one documentary i love recently was Free Solo. I fuckin love Yosemite and that guy didn't hide his bad sides, loved it.
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Post by girllikeabomb on Sept 30, 2021 3:37:10 GMT -5
For instance, the Allen vs Farrow documentary, have you watched it ? Haven't had the time yet, i've just seen bits which were already cringeworthy, but apparently from the reviews, it's very biased and lacks facts or proof. Yet people will only remember this side of the story, which is far, far more complex. Just to make content, platform are willing to put out anything these days, regardless of quality. The one documentary i love recently was Free Solo. I fuckin love Yosemite and that guy didn't hide his bad sides, loved it. I did see Farrow vs. Allen – definitely a one-sided doc (sometimes laughably one-sided) although Mia is entitled to tell her story. My main take away, though, is that whole family was and is completely messed up. Hey, if you liked Free Solo, I'll put in a plug for a brand new climbing doc called The Alpinist. It’s a bit darker because the “star” of the movie, this really kind of beautiful, Zen, freewheeling kid who was doing mind-blowing climbs in Patagonia completely out of the limelight, died in the middle of making it, and thus the movie becomes at the end more of an inquiry into the high costs of the climbing life. The photography is stunning, though, and there's a lot of ice climbing which makes it different from Free Solo. (No Yosemite, but lots of Squamish, kinda the Yosemite of Canada ) It should stream everywhere eventually. Well, just to loop this back into the conversation about real vs. unreal in docs, climbing docs get even more complicated. For example, while making The Alpinist, this kid Marc-Andre Leclerc would just go off spontaneously and do amazing climbs no one had done before without telling the camera team (even though he was supposed to bring them on all his climbs as part of the deal.) So, he actually then would re-do the climb with the camera team in tow so they could get the footage. In this case, the directors (there are a pair of them) are upfront about that in the film. But you can see where that kind of stuff can get way beyond a few sweet re-enactments of the 90s.
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Post by andymorris on Sept 30, 2021 11:53:36 GMT -5
For instance, the Allen vs Farrow documentary, have you watched it ? Haven't had the time yet, i've just seen bits which were already cringeworthy, but apparently from the reviews, it's very biased and lacks facts or proof. Yet people will only remember this side of the story, which is far, far more complex. Just to make content, platform are willing to put out anything these days, regardless of quality. The one documentary i love recently was Free Solo. I fuckin love Yosemite and that guy didn't hide his bad sides, loved it. I did see Farrow vs. Allen – definitely a one-sided doc (sometimes laughably one-sided) although Mia is entitled to tell her story. My main take away, though, is that whole family was and is completely messed up. Hey, if you liked Free Solo, I'll put in a plug for a brand new climbing doc called The Alpinist. It’s a bit darker because the “star” of the movie, this really kind of beautiful, Zen, freewheeling kid who was doing mind-blowing climbs in Patagonia completely out of the limelight, died in the middle of making it, and thus the movie becomes at the end more of an inquiry into the high costs of the climbing life. The photography is stunning, though, and there's a lot of ice climbing which makes it different from Free Solo. (No Yosemite, but lots of Squamish, kinda the Yosemite of Canada ) It should stream everywhere eventually. Well, just to loop this back into the conversation about real vs. unreal in docs, climbing docs get even more complicated. For example, while making The Alpinist, this kid Marc-Andre Leclerc would just go off spontaneously and do amazing climbs no one had done before without telling the camera team (even though he was supposed to bring them on all his climbs as part of the deal.) So, he actually then would re-do the climb with the camera team in tow so they could get the footage. In this case, the directors (there are a pair of them) are upfront about that in the film. But you can see where that kind of stuff can get way beyond a few sweet re-enactments of the 90s. thanx i'll check this one out. I'm mad for documentaries, i have watched maybe like a million (the Allen familly is VERY messed up, but who do you believe ? I tend to believe Woody really. In his film, his obsessions are more like 18 and older... not 4. but what do i know... )
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Post by darmin on Sept 30, 2021 14:23:40 GMT -5
I was on vacation and didn’t watch the documentary. I’m glad to see that the reviews are overwhelmingly positive (I think? Didn’t read everything). I’m looking forward for the dvds. Or streaming
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Post by electricsunday on Sept 30, 2021 14:46:54 GMT -5
Question for anyone who has any of the previously released super deluxe box sets: what are the exact dimensions?
For reasons I won't bore you with Knebworth will be my first so I'm adjusting for shelf space. I assume they're all the same size.
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Post by jh on Oct 1, 2021 2:03:32 GMT -5
Watched the film at the cinema yesterday, was bit disappointed tbh! Seemed like a c5 programme where people recall funny bits of a dire comedy series. Just didn’t hang well in my opinion and not really any footage I hadn’t seen. I get they were trying to do it from a fans perspective but just don’t think it worked too well. I think if they had focussed on the band backstage/build up/post gig footage, plus a bit from fans I think would of been better. Also needed more from Liam and other band members, whole thing just seemed odd Yes have to agree not much already not seen. Liam seriously lacking. Supersonic for me far far superior for enjoyment factor. Look forward to seeing the full gigs remastered though.
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Post by Didi on Oct 1, 2021 2:10:54 GMT -5
Question for anyone who has any of the previously released super deluxe box sets: what are the exact dimensions? For reasons I won't bore you with Knebworth will be my first so I'm adjusting for shelf space. I assume they're all the same size. don't know the exact dimensions, but they fit perfectly in an Ikea Kallax
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Post by mimmihopps on Oct 1, 2021 3:04:59 GMT -5
Question for anyone who has any of the previously released super deluxe box sets: what are the exact dimensions? For reasons I won't bore you with Knebworth will be my first so I'm adjusting for shelf space. I assume they're all the same size. don't know the exact dimensions, but they fit perfectly in an Ikea Kallax electricsunday, my answer is same. All my deluxe box sets (DM, BHN, As You Were, Noel's best album) fit in Ikea Kallax.
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Post by welshylad on Oct 18, 2021 4:37:55 GMT -5
Some Might Say video being released later on today. Taken from the 2nd night
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