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Post by The Invisible Sun on Mar 17, 2023 19:17:14 GMT -5
Still, I have my standards and philosophy. What sort of person would I be if I changed my standards at convenience? I suppose I'd be a politician! The democrats either earn my vote or they don't. There's still time. Earn back my trust. If they can prove they are willing to do whatever it takes to stop fascism, stop climate decline and help the working class, then they get my vote. But I'll require more than platitudes and promises. I need action.
When it comes to irresponsibility, it's not non-voters you should point fingers at. It's the people that made them non-voters, the politicians that drove them away and lost their trust. Maybe it's worth giving a call to local senators and congressmen to remind them of how to win those people back ... I mean that's an infinitely better option than just waiting for Dems to magically get better. By my estimation, that's quite literally what you're doing when you lack a voting standard and check anybody with a D next to their name no matter if they intend to actually represent your interests or not. It's a faith based position, not so different from magic.
It's like buying a cheap Chinese product off of Wish.com and hoping they ship you something luxurious. If you vote for shit, you're only going to get shit in return. Your position is the Pascals Wager of politics and I am opposed to that strategy of voting just as I am opposed to it as an argument for god.
I'm not just waiting around for dems to magically get better. I am doing my part, just in a different way. Plus, it makes a little $$.
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Post by funhouse on Mar 18, 2023 5:12:31 GMT -5
I mean that's an infinitely better option than just waiting for Dems to magically get better. By my estimation, that's quite literally what you're doing when you lack a voting standard and check anybody with a D next to their name no matter if they intend to actually represent your interests or not. It's a faith based position, not so different from magic.
It's like buying a cheap Chinese product off of Wish.com and hoping they ship you something luxurious. If you vote for shit, you're only going to get shit in return. Your position is the Pascals Wager of politics and I am opposed to that strategy of voting just as I am opposed to it as an argument for god.
I'm not just waiting around for dems to magically get better. I am doing my part, just in a different way. Plus, it makes a little $$.
You realize you can work for change in various ways *and* vote, right? And that things get even worse when Republicans win, right? And I don't view it as strategy as much as basic survival instinct.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Mar 18, 2023 10:12:34 GMT -5
By my estimation, that's quite literally what you're doing when you lack a voting standard and check anybody with a D next to their name no matter if they intend to actually represent your interests or not. It's a faith based position, not so different from magic.
It's like buying a cheap Chinese product off of Wish.com and hoping they ship you something luxurious. If you vote for shit, you're only going to get shit in return. Your position is the Pascals Wager of politics and I am opposed to that strategy of voting just as I am opposed to it as an argument for god.
I'm not just waiting around for dems to magically get better. I am doing my part, just in a different way. Plus, it makes a little $$.
You realize you can work for change in various ways *and* vote, right? And that things get even worse when Republicans win, right? And I don't view it as strategy as much as basic surviv al instinct. Again, I will vote when there is a candidate worth voting for. Right now that is Marianne Williamson. If the dems sabotage her like I know they will, then that might be Biden contingent on IF he supports a new, younger VP with a strong progressive record, because I do think Biden will die in office and I don't trust America in the hands of "Do not come." Kamala.
It's not survival to keep doing the same thing over and over each time expecting a different result. That behavior is complicit in how we ended up where we are. How many times must your 'survival instinct' fail, before you change your behavior and try something different?
I reached my limit ... I hope you eventually reach yours. I hope most of America reaches their limit too, because I don't see how we organize a national strike unless Americans become convinced that their vote isn't working.
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Post by funhouse on Mar 18, 2023 12:01:35 GMT -5
You realize you can work for change in various ways *and* vote, right? And that things get even worse when Republicans win, right? And I don't view it as strategy as much as basic surviv al instinct. Again, I will vote when there is a candidate worth voting for. Right now that is Marianne Williamson. If the dems sabotage her like I know they will, then that might be Biden contingent on IF he supports a new, younger VP with a strong progressive record, because I do think Biden will die in office and I don't trust America in the hands of "Do not come." Kamala.
It's not survival to keep doing the same thing over and over each time expecting a different result. That behavior is complicit in how we ended up where we are. How many times must your 'survival instinct' fail, before you change your behavior and try something different?
I reached my limit ... I hope you eventually reach yours. I hope most of America reaches their limit too, because I don't see how we organize a national strike unless Americans become convinced that their vote isn't working.
It would save a lot of time if you just admitted that you think Republicans winning is necessary for people to eventually start voting for progressive Democrats.
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Post by The Escapist on Mar 18, 2023 13:18:42 GMT -5
(The change needed will not come from elections/the state no matter what you do. That includes not voting at all - so vote for the practical effects that it does have, but do so with that in mind. Democracy at Work...)
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Mar 18, 2023 17:09:22 GMT -5
Holy shit, I'm entirely too giddy from all the republican tears shed today.
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Post by Day Tripper on Mar 21, 2023 18:27:56 GMT -5
I always thought not voting at all should never be an option. However, the two party political system in the USA has slowly made me think otherwise.
My view now is that the point of voting is to allow the person to give their support for the person that most resembles their own views, at least to some extent. If there aren't any options available that you'd feel comfortable voting, then doesn't it mean there's something wrong with the democratic system and therefore the only way you could send a message is by not voting at all?
It sounds wrong but if the voting percentage keeps dropping and dropping maybe the politicians might start considering changing their approach too. After all they're all potential voters that have not decided to use their vote.
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Post by funhouse on Mar 23, 2023 20:27:43 GMT -5
It sounds wrong but if the voting percentage keeps dropping and dropping maybe the politicians might start considering changing their approach too. After all they're all potential voters that have not decided to use their vote. If there's a future where this tactic will have lead to a change of approach among politicians, by that time positive change will likely be even harder to achieve because Republicans will have benefitted from said tactic(their voters are generally more enthusiastic, and old, which also leads to a higher turnout) and been able to tilt the system even more in their favor. People choose between the lesser of two evils every day. Doing so once every four years(or depending on your country, but in this case USA was the example) is a small task. Disheartening yes, but it can always get worse. That's not an argument, simply an undeniable fact.
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Post by World71R on Mar 25, 2023 18:16:33 GMT -5
Combine that with DeSantis gearing up for a 2024 run and yea, it's not a good time. I'm hoping Biden officially announces his 2024 run soon and continues to be strong. For a man his age, he's showing off all the experience and tenacity you could ever want. Keep it going for 4 more years and I hope to God some of those far-right ideologies die on their collective, rotten asses. Even if they do, we still have serious issues to face outside of assholes taking away people's rights to focus attention away from those other serious issues... I just can't vote for Biden. Especially following his Alaskan deal. Between his age and going back on policy promises, his weak reaction to SCOTUS rulings and his lack of reaction against the wave of anti-LGBTQ+ legislation, beyond waving his finger, I've decided I am voting for Marianne Williamson, because right now she's the torch bearer of Bernie Sanders policy, which now more than ever this country is in desperate need of.
Only way Biden gets my vote is if Kamala resigns and is replaced with some other younger progressive who I believe the country would be in safe hands with if Biden kicks the bucket in office. And I'd still only be voting for him in that case because it would be an easier victory with less risk. Would love Nina Turner as VP.
I definitely think someone else besides Joe Biden would be good for the long-term health of the party and kickstarting the future, but Marianne Williamson isn't it. Someone like Pete Buttgieg or Amy Klobuchar are both good enough, inspiring enough candidates who have a pulse on the country and what needs to be done and longevity that someone like Biden, Warren or Sanders doesn't really have.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Mar 25, 2023 21:38:27 GMT -5
I just can't vote for Biden. Especially following his Alaskan deal. Between his age and going back on policy promises, his weak reaction to SCOTUS rulings and his lack of reaction against the wave of anti-LGBTQ+ legislation, beyond waving his finger, I've decided I am voting for Marianne Williamson, because right now she's the torch bearer of Bernie Sanders policy, which now more than ever this country is in desperate need of.
Only way Biden gets my vote is if Kamala resigns and is replaced with some other younger progressive who I believe the country would be in safe hands with if Biden kicks the bucket in office. And I'd still only be voting for him in that case because it would be an easier victory with less risk. Would love Nina Turner as VP.
I definitely think someone else besides Joe Biden would be good for the long-term health of the party and kickstarting the future, but Marianne Williamson isn't it. Someone like Pete Buttgieg or Amy Klobuchar are both good enough, inspiring enough candidates who have a pulse on the country and what needs to be done and longevity that someone like Biden, Warren or Sanders doesn't really have. Hard pass on Pete and Amy. They are corporate picks.
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Post by The Escapist on Mar 25, 2023 21:48:51 GMT -5
I always thought not voting at all should never be an option. However, the two party political system in the USA has slowly made me think otherwise. My view now is that the point of voting is to allow the person to give their support for the person that most resembles their own views, at least to some extent. If there aren't any options available that you'd feel comfortable voting, then doesn't it mean there's something wrong with the democratic system and therefore the only way you could send a message is by not voting at all? It sounds wrong but if the voting percentage keeps dropping and dropping maybe the politicians might start considering changing their approach too. After all they're all potential voters that have not decided to use their vote. Politicians don't work for the people who vote for them. They work for the people who pay them. More of us need to realise that the decisions which govern a society do not happen in the White House or Downing Street, they happen in boardrooms. War, homelessness, climate change, poverty, etc; these are the results of corporate decisions, lobbying, funding, interests. It's only by introducing democracy there that things can change; elections make a difference, but it's still the act of choosing which hospital holds the diseased patient. The act of treating the disease itself begins when the decisions of what to produce, how to produce them, and what to do with the profits are taken with some legitimate, bottom-up semblance of democracy. Best is to vote each time, join a union, and organise for Democracy at Work. It'll sound like student-y pipe-dreams to some, but I say it's the only hard-headed assessment of where the issues we have come from, and to ignore that and hope they go away with the right voting strategy is, in itself, the naïve worldview.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Mar 30, 2023 17:57:00 GMT -5
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Post by Jessica on Mar 30, 2023 18:01:11 GMT -5
Yeah, I was lost for words too.
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Post by Manualex on Mar 30, 2023 18:32:05 GMT -5
Good, but it isn't done until Trump isn't allowed to run as candidate.
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Post by RocketMan on Mar 31, 2023 7:39:20 GMT -5
Of all the reasons an American president should be in court, paying off a porn actress shouldn’t be the top priority. But it’s a start I guess
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Post by Teotihuacan on Mar 31, 2023 8:56:33 GMT -5
Of all the reasons an American president should be in court, paying off a porn actress shouldn’t be the top priority. But it’s a start I guess Al Capone - tax evasion, history repeating..
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Post by Elie De Beaufour 🐴 on Mar 31, 2023 13:16:36 GMT -5
Has Jan 6 part 2 happened yet as supporters were told by Trump to do if he was?
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Mar 31, 2023 14:09:46 GMT -5
Has Jan 6 part 2 happened yet as supporters were told by Trump to do if he was? Not yet. There is a little 'civil war' talk on twitter. Pretty normal after anything happens that they don't like. And apparently some sort of action is being discussed on far-right forums. But nothing has happened yet to my knowledge.
I really think they should have announced the indictment at the same time they went for an arrest. Letting republicans stew on the indictment, only to arrest him days later will prolong and reignite their anger, potentially leading to violence in my opinion. I think if we see anything happen now, it will be on Tuesday when they put him in cuffs. Many right-wingers at the moment believe he will not be arrested. When reality slaps them in the face, things will escalate is my guess. I hope I am wrong.
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Post by jezza2 on Mar 31, 2023 14:49:29 GMT -5
It’s impressive that Biden has done literally nothing so this has converted to a “trump got indicted” thread.
Good stuff though, needed to get done.
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Post by globe on Mar 31, 2023 16:29:15 GMT -5
Canna wait to see the kunts mugshot.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Mar 31, 2023 17:22:28 GMT -5
It’s impressive that Biden has done literally nothing so this has converted to a “trump got indicted” thread. Good stuff though, needed to get done. It's really strange to me that he won't even lend a comment on the indictment.
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Post by Elie De Beaufour 🐴 on Mar 31, 2023 22:14:50 GMT -5
Has Jan 6 part 2 happened yet as supporters were told by Trump to do if he was? Not yet. There is a little 'civil war' talk on twitter. Pretty normal after anything happens that they don't like. And apparently some sort of action is being discussed on far-right forums. But nothing has happened yet to my knowledge. I really think they should have announced the indictment at the same time they went for an arrest. Letting republicans stew on the indictment, only to arrest him days later will prolong and reignite their anger, potentially leading to violence in my opinion. I think if we see anything happen now, it will be on Tuesday when they put him in cuffs. Many right-wingers at the moment believe he will not be arrested. When reality slaps them in the face, things will escalate is my guess. I hope I am wrong.
Teddy (Ted Cruz) is trying to start something I think:
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Post by The-Ghost-Dancer on Apr 1, 2023 10:47:04 GMT -5
it's about damn time this shitbag was held accountable it's just a shame its not for the shit ton of other laws he broke, kinda like Al Capone was brought down for tax evasion depsite being a murderous rackateering scumbag. If only Drmupf had paid her out of his own pocket and not campaign finance funds then tried to funnel it through his company and then write it off as a business expense (think i got that right). Also why didnt he just concede he lost to JB do his 4yr stint then fuck off,nah he had to insight an riotous insurrection, after trying to coerce the georgia govener to find 11K votes so he won a state he lost, then take highly classified top secret documents from the white house , then lie like fuck for a full year saying he didnt after they knew he did and gave him ample time to hand themover and nothing more would be said, agian nah gets his lawyers to lie and say he handed them back until a federal judge signed off a perfectly legal search order, ABSOLUTELY NO ONE MADE HIM DO ALL THIS SHIT BUT HIMSELF but all he does is cry fake news and play the victim in all this everything is a hoax to this c_unt and his mindless sheeple who follow him, no one is above the law andits about time he payed the price!! I would love to know what Beady’s Here Now thinks now his saviour is in the shit try defending this you crank Please enlighten us all
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Post by Lester Diamond on Apr 3, 2023 17:44:44 GMT -5
¡Don’t blame me, I voted for eva! God bless.
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Post by tiger40 on Apr 4, 2023 12:52:37 GMT -5
Isn't Donald Trump in court today? I hope that he gets what's coming to him.
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