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Post by spaneli on Jul 24, 2020 1:02:28 GMT -5
I think it was probably a terrible recording experience. I also think music is subjective and Noel is someone whose views on his music are shaped by the experiences making them, i.e. him dismissing BHN and SOTSOG because they were created during rocky moments in his life and the band's. Maybe. However, both Noel and AA have said in interviews that the process was ultimately the problem -- not what was produced. Noel has stated that he was not happy with how AA worked and mentioned that he wasn't given as much input into it as he normally has, since he has always at least been a co-producer. AA guys paint it a different way: Noel was too stubborn/afraid to try anything different and forced them to just do the same-old Oasis thing. Or, maybe put another way, he wasn't ready to let go of the Oasis thing yet, as it was really part of his first solo attempt. The funny thing is that if you re-read that article now and replace the negative with the affirmative, it reads like a David Holmes interview about the making of WBTM. But see, the how and the what's produced go hand-in-hand. You can't really separate them. Moreover, I think there's a fundamental difference between what the AA did and what Holmes did. Holmes was great at seeing Noel wanted to change. I think Noel wanted the same with AA. I mean, in the end, he went to them for a reason. But I think Holmes was far better at communicating and being diplomatic with Noel. He bent to Noel in some ways, like when Noel told him he had to be able to perform the songs live and couldn't go too far out there. To his point, Holmes adjusted. Holmes did what producers need to do, and that's understand that artists are stubborn, they're insecure at their heart, but they want to be gently led and that's okay. Holmes got Noel's language. He understood that Noel communicates through albums. He played Noel an album and said, "Why don't you try this?" And he understood that Noel is great at replicating. Next to his melodic ear, it's his greatest talent. He gave Noel a sample and said write around this and it became Holy Mountain. The album began as Noel sitting around trying to play piano for hours and Holmes doing some trickery, but it became Noel really opening himself up as Holmes began to understand how Noel worked. As Noel said, by the end, they were writing much quicker, which I'm sure made the early struggles less prominent in his mind and more affection than say what happened with AA. Holmes tried to understand Noel in a way the AA didn't. And I think that's the real reason Holmes' album worked and the AA's didn't. In any case, the AA recording sounds like a test of two wills. And usually in any creative field that leads to trouble. Not just in the process, but the result. Nothing I've heard around these recordings give me any faith that they're actually good. |
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Post by Lennon2217 on Jul 24, 2020 1:31:58 GMT -5
Maybe. However, both Noel and AA have said in interviews that the process was ultimately the problem -- not what was produced. Noel has stated that he was not happy with how AA worked and mentioned that he wasn't given as much input into it as he normally has, since he has always at least been a co-producer. AA guys paint it a different way: Noel was too stubborn/afraid to try anything different and forced them to just do the same-old Oasis thing. Or, maybe put another way, he wasn't ready to let go of the Oasis thing yet, as it was really part of his first solo attempt. The funny thing is that if you re-read that article now and replace the negative with the affirmative, it reads like a David Holmes interview about the making of WBTM. But see, the how and the what's produced go hand-in-hand. You can't really separate them. Moreover, I think there's a fundamental difference between what the AA did and what Holmes did. Holmes was great at seeing Noel wanted to change. I think Noel wanted the same with AA. I mean, in the end, he went to them for a reason. But I think Holmes was far better at communicating and being diplomatic with Noel. He bent to Noel in some ways, like when Noel told him he had to be able to perform the songs live and couldn't go too far out there. To his point, Holmes adjusted. Holmes did what producers need to do, and that's understand that artists are stubborn, they're insecure at their heart, but they want to be gently led and that's okay. Holmes got Noel's language. He understood that Noel communicates through albums. He played Noel an album and said, "Why don't you try this?" And he understood that Noel is great at replicating. Next to his melodic ear, it's his greatest talent. He gave Noel a sample and said write around this and it became Holy Mountain. The album began as Noel sitting around trying to play piano for hours and Holmes doing some trickery, but it became Noel really opening himself up as Holmes began to understand how Noel worked. As Noel said, by the end, they were writing much quicker, which I'm sure made the early struggles less prominent in his mind and more affection than say what happened with AA. Holmes tried to understand Noel in a way the AA didn't. And I think that's the real reason Holmes' album worked and the AA's didn't. In any case, the AA recording sounds like a test of two wills. And usually in any creative field that leads to trouble. Not just in the process, but the result. Nothing I've heard around these recordings give me any faith that they're actually good. The AA sessions..............died of a theory. |
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Post by oasisunited on Jul 24, 2020 8:16:29 GMT -5
Nothing I've heard around these recordings give me any faith that they're actually good. And there's the rub, isn't it? It's all a matter of opinion. Personally, I think Shoot A Hole In The Sun and The Right Stuff are some of the best stuff to come out of his solo work to date. Personally, I prefer that direction much more than what he did with Holmes on Who Built The Moon?. Those AA tracks are at least intriguing enough to me that I would want to hear the rest of it to see where else it would go. It also seems that from the various interviews given then and during the WBTM cycle that back in 2011 Noel thought that he was ready to do something experimental/that would challenge his fan base, but he really wasn't. Fast forward to 2017 and he finally felt more comfortable with how his solo career was going sales wise to take that risk. Perhaps he just trusts David Holmes more than the AA guys. Perhaps they have more in common in terms of the type of music they are into, etc. Either way, it seems like the combination of Noel being ready to try something different and having trust in David Holmes is what was lacking during the AA sessions. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2020 9:01:56 GMT -5
The Real People and AA have both said that Noel take more credit than he deserves.
If you go back to both HFB and CY interviews etc theres many anecdotes about how the Stacy bros came up with guitar solos, bass lines, drums etc. And Noel almost bragged about how Holmes would stay up all night working on songs for WBTM.
Seems to me like Noel creates a melody and writes lyrics and puts a few chords together, then everyone else does all the heavy lifting for him.
The ones who took exception to this (Real People & AA) were shunned. AA being completely conned. Producer credits on CY. Stacys and Holmes seem happy to carry on without due recognition.
Maybe this is why Death in Vegas didnt work?
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Post by defmaybe00 on Jul 24, 2020 11:20:20 GMT -5
The Real People and AA have both said that Noel take more credit than he deserves. If you go back to both HFB and CY interviews etc theres many anecdotes about how the Stacy bros came up with guitar solos, bass lines, drums etc. And Noel almost bragged about how Holmes would stay up all night working on songs for WBTM. Seems to me like Noel creates a melody and writes lyrics and puts a few chords together, then everyone else does all the heavy lifting for him. The ones who took exception to this (Real People & AA) were shunned. AA being completely conned. Producer credits on CY. Stacys and Holmes seem happy to carry on without due recognition. Maybe this is why Death in Vegas didnt work? This happens literally all the time with nearly everybody You're not getting writing credits because of a guitar solo |
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Post by spaneli on Jul 24, 2020 13:12:31 GMT -5
The Real People and AA have both said that Noel take more credit than he deserves.
If you go back to both HFB and CY interviews etc theres many anecdotes about how the Stacy bros came up with guitar solos, bass lines, drums etc. And Noel almost bragged about how Holmes would stay up all night working on songs for WBTM. Seems to me like Noel creates a melody and writes lyrics and puts a few chords together, then everyone else does all the heavy lifting for him. The ones who took exception to this (Real People & AA) were shunned. AA being completely conned. Producer credits on CY. Stacys and Holmes seem happy to carry on without due recognition. Maybe this is why Death in Vegas didnt work? This goes for the great majority of artists. Not just Noel. Some bands get around this by agreeing to share all songwriting credits. In the context of Oasis, Noel, Andy, and Gem all helped with arrangements for I'm Outta Time. And I believe Gem helped on the structure. But there's nothing nefarious to what Noel or Liam did with regards to taking sole writing credit for songs others played on. What was nefarious was the AA producing backing tracks and then Noel taking sole production and writing credit. Technically, songwriters aren't required to give credits for backing tracks. That's not a Noel thing. That's a music business thing that's FAR more common than people think because the law only recognizes songwriting credits belonging to the person who wrote the melody and lyrics. Hence, why backing tracks don't count for credits (same with a person writing their instrument parts). You merely must credit that person for their work. So under the law, Noel must credit a musician with playing bass, but he's not required to give out a songwriting credit for that task. Under the law, he wasn't required to give AA a songwriting credit either. However, he was required to give them a production credit. Which AA fought for and won. Once again, this comes down to communication. Typically, the producer and artist will agree ahead of time how credits will be divvied up. If the AA wanted writing credits, ironically, they should have gotten it in writing. And once again, this isn't a Noel thing. This is far more common than people believe and it's done by most people's favorite artists. Noel isn't unique in that regard. We just know about Noel because we're on this forum every single day. |
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Post by drummert5 on Jul 24, 2020 13:28:34 GMT -5
Several big name producers are actually songwriters and accept a production credit instead of a co-write in exchange for a lot of money.
Ryan Tedder, for instance, wrote “Summer of Love” from U2’s most recent album, and Bono changed a few words, but the song is credited to U2 with Tedder producing.
(We only know this because there’s a clip of Tedder demoing the song for his own band, before he gave it to U2... it was just an insta story, in some ways I’m surprised it hasn’t caused more trouble for the band).
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Post by defmaybe00 on Jul 24, 2020 14:59:32 GMT -5
The Real People and AA have both said that Noel take more credit than he deserves.
If you go back to both HFB and CY interviews etc theres many anecdotes about how the Stacy bros came up with guitar solos, bass lines, drums etc. And Noel almost bragged about how Holmes would stay up all night working on songs for WBTM. Seems to me like Noel creates a melody and writes lyrics and puts a few chords together, then everyone else does all the heavy lifting for him. The ones who took exception to this (Real People & AA) were shunned. AA being completely conned. Producer credits on CY. Stacys and Holmes seem happy to carry on without due recognition. Maybe this is why Death in Vegas didnt work? This goes for the great majority of artists. Not just Noel. Some bands get around this by agreeing to share all songwriting credits. In the context of Oasis, Noel, Andy, and Gem all helped with arrangements for I'm Outta Time. And I believe Gem helped on the structure. But there's nothing nefarious to what Noel or Liam did with regards to taking sole writing credit for songs others played on. What was nefarious was the AA producing backing tracks and then Noel taking sole production and writing credit. Technically, songwriters aren't required to give credits for backing tracks. That's not a Noel thing. That's a music business thing that's FAR more common than people think because the law only recognizes songwriting credits belonging to the person who wrote the melody and lyrics. Hence, why backing tracks don't count for credits (same with a person writing their instrument parts). You merely must credit that person for their work. So under the law, Noel must credit a musician with playing bass, but he's not required to give out a songwriting credit for that task. Under the law, he wasn't required to give AA a songwriting credit either. However, he was required to give them a production credit. Which AA fought for and won. Once again, this comes down to communication. Typically, the producer and artist will agree ahead of time how credits will be divvied up. If the AA wanted writing credits, ironically, they should have gotten it in writing. And once again, this isn't a Noel thing. This is far more common than people believe and it's done by most people's favorite artists. Noel isn't unique in that regard. We just know about Noel because we're on this forum every single day. Yeah, I mean on some of the Oasis Liam penned tracks we know he got help with song structure etc but was still credited as the main writer If you come up with the melody,lyrics and chords you will be the one getting the songwriting credits 99% of the times And to compare Stacey coming up with a bassline here and there (and getting credited as a performer, not like Noel is stealing his spotlight or something) to the AA sessions is a bit like mixing apples and oranges I think |
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Post by shannee on Jul 25, 2020 0:16:53 GMT -5
I’ve still listened to Faster Than more than any other NGHFB’s albums. Prefer simplified Noel. I don’t think his melodies need a lot of bs piled on top, well unless it’s like 15 guitar tracks a la BHN but then you want Liam’s voice to cut through.
I have no hope for the AA album. If it was great, or even pretty good, Noel would have made a buck off it by now I would have thought.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Jul 25, 2020 0:44:48 GMT -5
I often wonder if oasisdna has the AA sessions in a safe in his Texas Oasis museum. Maybe has even heard the tapes. I would never count it out with him.  |
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Post by yeayeayeah on Jul 28, 2020 1:42:49 GMT -5
It's a great collection of songs. It does venture into the Dadrock territory a fair amount. Broken Arrow would be my favourite.
Chasing Yesterday is his best solo album for me with this as second.
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Post by The Boy Without the Blues on Jul 28, 2020 12:26:54 GMT -5
Several big name producers are actually songwriters and accept a production credit instead of a co-write in exchange for a lot of money. Ryan Tedder, for instance, wrote “Summer of Love” from U2’s most recent album, and Bono changed a few words, but the song is credited to U2 with Tedder producing. (We only know this because there’s a clip of Tedder demoing the song for his own band, before he gave it to U2... it was just an insta story, in some ways I’m surprised it hasn’t caused more trouble for the band). Wow really? I'm surprised U2 wouldnt be writing all their songs... |
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Post by Gas Panic on Jul 28, 2020 16:36:35 GMT -5
I’ve still listened to Faster Than more than any other NGHFB’s albums. Prefer simplified Noel. I don’t think his melodies need a lot of bs piled on top, well unless it’s like 15 guitar tracks a la BHN but then you want Liam’s voice to cut through. I have no hope for the AA album. If it was great, or even pretty good, Noel would have made a buck off it by now I would have thought. Your post made me go back and listen to those demos for the first time in a long time today. They're a great listen. If an anniversary edition of NGHFB were to come out it would need to include the AA album otherwise it wouldn't be worth it as we already were spoilt with these demos back in 2012. I'm not sure what else Noel could offer other than boring live material. |
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Post by 2nz on Jul 29, 2020 5:34:52 GMT -5
Maybe. However, both Noel and AA have said in interviews that the process was ultimately the problem -- not what was produced. Noel has stated that he was not happy with how AA worked and mentioned that he wasn't given as much input into it as he normally has, since he has always at least been a co-producer. AA guys paint it a different way: Noel was too stubborn/afraid to try anything different and forced them to just do the same-old Oasis thing. Or, maybe put another way, he wasn't ready to let go of the Oasis thing yet, as it was really part of his first solo attempt. The funny thing is that if you re-read that article now and replace the negative with the affirmative, it reads like a David Holmes interview about the making of WBTM. But see, the how and the what's produced go hand-in-hand. You can't really separate them. Moreover, I think there's a fundamental difference between what the AA did and what Holmes did. Holmes was great at seeing Noel wanted to change. I think Noel wanted the same with AA. I mean, in the end, he went to them for a reason. But I think Holmes was far better at communicating and being diplomatic with Noel. He bent to Noel in some ways, like when Noel told him he had to be able to perform the songs live and couldn't go too far out there. To his point, Holmes adjusted. Holmes did what producers need to do, and that's understand that artists are stubborn, they're insecure at their heart, but they want to be gently led and that's okay. Holmes got Noel's language. He understood that Noel communicates through albums. He played Noel an album and said, "Why don't you try this?" And he understood that Noel is great at replicating. Next to his melodic ear, it's his greatest talent. He gave Noel a sample and said write around this and it became Holy Mountain. The album began as Noel sitting around trying to play piano for hours and Holmes doing some trickery, but it became Noel really opening himself up as Holmes began to understand how Noel worked. As Noel said, by the end, they were writing much quicker, which I'm sure made the early struggles less prominent in his mind and more affection than say what happened with AA. Holmes tried to understand Noel in a way the AA didn't. And I think that's the real reason Holmes' album worked and the AA's didn't. In any case, the AA recording sounds like a test of two wills. And usually in any creative field that leads to trouble. Not just in the process, but the result. Nothing I've heard around these recordings give me any faith that they're actually good. What people miss with Holmes vs the AA guys is that David has an ear for a pop tune, and set the touch points for the record as 60s pop, cinematic soundscapes and beats for Kanye. AA wanted to spark up a joint after a 20 hour Pink Floyd gig at Stonehenge. Holmer could back it up with songs on the radio, soundtracks and more, all that AA could do was point to was a few remixes. I can see why it would have been a perfect thing to appeal to Noel- different from things that had been done in the past, but at the end of the day, record companies aren't gonna take a far out concept album when they'd signed someone who's known as a classical songwriter. And bills need paid. |
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Post by tiger40 on Aug 4, 2020 16:13:29 GMT -5
To be honest I've never been a big fan of this album & always preferred the demo versions. It's not so much the songs (except for Dream On which I can't stand) it's more the production which make some of the songs sound boring & life less.
Chasing Yesterday is my favourite Noel album but I do enjoy WBTM
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Post by Bonehead's Barber on Aug 4, 2020 17:01:29 GMT -5
Listened to it today in the gym. Enjoyed it.
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Post by matt on Aug 4, 2020 17:08:26 GMT -5
I think it was probably a terrible recording experience. I also think music is subjective and Noel is someone whose views on his music are shaped by the experiences making them, i.e. him dismissing BHN and SOTSOG because they were created during rocky moments in his life and the band's. Maybe. However, both Noel and AA have said in interviews that the process was ultimately the problem -- not what was produced. Noel has stated that he was not happy with how AA worked and mentioned that he wasn't given as much input into it as he normally has, since he has always at least been a co-producer. AA guys paint it a different way: Noel was too stubborn/afraid to try anything different and forced them to just do the same-old Oasis thing. Or, maybe put another way, he wasn't ready to let go of the Oasis thing yet, as it was really part of his first solo attempt. The funny thing is that if you re-read that article now and replace the negative with the affirmative, it reads like a David Holmes interview about the making of WBTM. I think there was a massive misunderstanding on the creative process. Noel’s idea was for AA to merely offer high quality technicolour production to fully finished standard songs, essentially providing slick window dressing. AA on the other hand probably had an idea of deconstructing all aspects of Noel’s songwriting to take him into a far out experimental territory that Noel didn’t expect. The standard approach is essentially what he wanted Holmes to do for Chasing Yesterday too. Maybe the point at which Holmes said no and that he wanted to be involved in the creative process of the songs themselves was a rude awakening for Noel. It might have been the point at which Noel realised producers are there to do a bit more than spit and polish to the songs. I’ve said it on the previous thread but he still needs a producer to push the boat out. He’s fine with self-production on the more traditional songs like Rattling Rose and A Dream Is All I Need To Get By (which I love) but for his forays into dance and electro music, it’s still the sound of a guy who knows that’s not his natural forte. It feels like he’s merely dipping his toes in the water with songs like Black Star Dancing and Blue Moon Rising and that a producer like Holmes would push him further on these songs. On the wide scheme of things, they’re fine tunes but up against all the other electro tunes they’re inspired by, then it’s rather tame stuff. I’d love him to dive head first into all that. |
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Post by matt on Aug 4, 2020 17:18:15 GMT -5
Maybe. However, both Noel and AA have said in interviews that the process was ultimately the problem -- not what was produced. Noel has stated that he was not happy with how AA worked and mentioned that he wasn't given as much input into it as he normally has, since he has always at least been a co-producer. AA guys paint it a different way: Noel was too stubborn/afraid to try anything different and forced them to just do the same-old Oasis thing. Or, maybe put another way, he wasn't ready to let go of the Oasis thing yet, as it was really part of his first solo attempt. The funny thing is that if you re-read that article now and replace the negative with the affirmative, it reads like a David Holmes interview about the making of WBTM. But see, the how and the what's produced go hand-in-hand. You can't really separate them. Moreover, I think there's a fundamental difference between what the AA did and what Holmes did. Holmes was great at seeing Noel wanted to change. I think Noel wanted the same with AA. I mean, in the end, he went to them for a reason. But I think Holmes was far better at communicating and being diplomatic with Noel. He bent to Noel in some ways, like when Noel told him he had to be able to perform the songs live and couldn't go too far out there. To his point, Holmes adjusted. Holmes did what producers need to do, and that's understand that artists are stubborn, they're insecure at their heart, but they want to be gently led and that's okay. Holmes got Noel's language. He understood that Noel communicates through albums. He played Noel an album and said, "Why don't you try this?" And he understood that Noel is great at replicating. Next to his melodic ear, it's his greatest talent. He gave Noel a sample and said write around this and it became Holy Mountain. The album began as Noel sitting around trying to play piano for hours and Holmes doing some trickery, but it became Noel really opening himself up as Holmes began to understand how Noel worked. As Noel said, by the end, they were writing much quicker, which I'm sure made the early struggles less prominent in his mind and more affection than say what happened with AA. Holmes tried to understand Noel in a way the AA didn't. And I think that's the real reason Holmes' album worked and the AA's didn't. In any case, the AA recording sounds like a test of two wills. And usually in any creative field that leads to trouble. Not just in the process, but the result. Nothing I've heard around these recordings give me any faith that they're actually good. Great post, it also brings to mind AA’s attempt to invite Noel to India to immerse him in Hindu aligned mysticism and spirituality! Suggested a complete clash of personalities there. Although Noel’s a fan of psychedelic music, I think he’s one of the last guys on earth to go all bohemian! |
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Post by carl80 on May 4, 2021 19:00:45 GMT -5
I was wondering has the first solo LP had a re press or has there only been one press on vinyl when it was released in 2011 to anyone in the know ? Cheers
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Post by soulsucker on May 5, 2021 2:06:55 GMT -5
I was wondering has the first solo LP had a re press or has there only been one press on vinyl when it was released in 2011 to anyone in the know ? Cheers Noel Gallagher's High Flying Birds - Noel Gallagher's High Flying Birds www.discogs.com/Noel-Gallaghers-High-Flying-Birds-Noel-Gallaghers-High-Flying-Birds/release/3161943In the comment section are some hints of a repress in 2015. Inner sleeve colours are a little bit different as it seems. Not sure if this is legit as I only own the original 2011 pressing and cannot compare. |
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Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5