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Post by thomaslivesforever on Sept 5, 2017 15:06:47 GMT -5
I think its far better produced than any Beady Eye song and far more built for purpose but i dont think its far superior to Flick Of The Finger or The Roller. Of course its a matter of opinions but i dont think Wall Of Glass is melodically out of the range of any of the Beady Eye members. They just were not good enough at writing the songs for what the fans demanded at that time. Example being Andy, who has written some fucking great songs before Oasis but when he had to come to write Oasis songs we ended up with some very contrived lyrics and melodies. One thing i will say is, 4 or 5 writers to write Wall Of Glass just further highlights what a genius Noel is really. Wall of glass is much better than any Beady eye song, in my opinion. But obviously not even close to any song written by Noel in the 90s. But I was never expecting that either. Its better than Shakermaker and Magic Pie for me at least.
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Post by cloudburster on Sept 6, 2017 20:10:21 GMT -5
Does anyone care who writes a song other than the writer? Many people care, though most of the fanbase don't. I suppose there are two types of fans. some are there for the fun and the enjoyment of it all, and that's fine, some other are there for the whole artist / songwriter experience. Songwriters will always be above "just" a performer to me, simply because i value songwriting more than performance. Songs are always more authentic when they are sung by the writer. Especially solo artists. Some solo artist are not great singers, or great musicians, but it's the songs that matter and it's the songs that will make them what they are. In a way, when Liam relies to other songwriters, he's just a Robbie Williams of rock n Roll. He sings well on a song written for him. Cool. But so what ? It could have been sung by Robbie Williams as well... It can feel a bit bland or beige to some people. When it's a band effort like in Oasis, it's different. The band is the entity, the artist, so in a way, a song is written by one band member but belongs to the whole band. It's like going to a movie, some people go to see the performance of some actors, some go to see films for the director or the writer. It's a complete different approach to art. Take JJ Abrams for example: when you watch one of his movies, you just know it's his movie. Same goes for his TV shows. Or Woody Allen, even when he's not acting in it. It's natural talent against creativity. I prefer when both are working hand in hand. Or it's just missing something. To be fair Liam did write over half of the album
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Post by psj3809 on Sept 8, 2017 8:07:09 GMT -5
I disagree. Liam is a songwriter. You dont write the tunes he wrote in Oasis (or Beady Eye) if you are not one. What Liam is missing is confidence in his own work. The rest will follow. Songwriting is like any other activity. It needs practice and hours of sweat. Sometimes a song will come in one minute, sometimes it will take years. Does Liam want to be a songwriter ? That's the real question here and it makes all the difference. You've said a few times that you would rather have Liam tunes. It just shows today that its worked. e.g Liam getting help with his tunes. Its a catch 22, if Liam suddenly thinks album #2 i want to write myself that could bomb. I hate Robbie Williams but the second he left that songwriter (Guy Chambers) to do it himself his album bombed, then 'surprisingly' he got back together with Chambers. Liams clever, for album #2 do what hes doing now, get the basis of a few tunes but get help to make them sound more professional. I really liked Beady Eye but many of those songs were very basic. If Oasis (or even on Liams album) released Evil Eye or Start Anew they would be pretty popular i reckon, the marketing/PR for this has been superb. Even the fans seem to like Soul Love which seemed to just disappear as it was by Beady Eye. He needs to carry on doing the same for album #2 in a year or so. Dont get too cocky and try it all himself
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Post by andymorris on Sept 8, 2017 8:31:42 GMT -5
I disagree. Liam is a songwriter. You dont write the tunes he wrote in Oasis (or Beady Eye) if you are not one. What Liam is missing is confidence in his own work. The rest will follow. Songwriting is like any other activity. It needs practice and hours of sweat. Sometimes a song will come in one minute, sometimes it will take years. Does Liam want to be a songwriter ? That's the real question here and it makes all the difference. You've said a few times that you would rather have Liam tunes. It just shows today that its worked. e.g Liam getting help with his tunes. Its a catch 22, if Liam suddenly thinks album #2 i want to write myself that could bomb. I hate Robbie Williams but the second he left that songwriter (Guy Chambers) to do it himself his album bombed, then 'surprisingly' he got back together with Chambers. Liams clever, for album #2 do what hes doing now, get the basis of a few tunes but get help to make them sound more professional. I really liked Beady Eye but many of those songs were very basic. If Oasis (or even on Liams album) released Evil Eye or Start Anew they would be pretty popular i reckon, the marketing/PR for this has been superb. Even the fans seem to like Soul Love which seemed to just disappear as it was by Beady Eye. He needs to carry on doing the same for album #2 in a year or so. Dont get too cocky and try it all himself TBH, i dont think Robbie Williams as ever written a note. He's co credited not to appear a fool, but in the end, all his records were always written by someone else. Chamber or another guy. That said, I'm really open for Liam to be helped... but with his songs. To go in the studio singing other people's songs, it's just not the same. Especially when those songs are no way mind blowing. you pointed the key point here: PR. Beady Eye was doomed from day one because it was Oasis minus Noel. It was probably the safest way to go back then. I disagree though that the records are shit. They're enjoyable. Liam's solo album is gonna be just a bit better than those records. Just. You're giving Evil Eye, Soul Love and Start Anew as an example... those songs are very good tunes, what they lack as you said, was a good PR. In the end, we all know a record works just because it is sold the right way to other people than the hardcore fanbase, which will buy the record anyway. Liam's songs also lack a better structure : Evil Eye doesn't go anywhere after 2 mins, because there's no variation in the music, same for Soul Love, same for Start Anew. Same for most Beady Eye songs. That's where a good producer should have put his foot down and actually added some guitars parts, drums or anything else to send the tunes somewhere else. And from what we heard so far, Liam's solo songs written by other people, or his own, have the same exact problem. I like Bold, i like Wall of Glass and for What it's Worth, but how boring are those backing tracks ? How many times do they need to repeat that stupid guitar break on WAG ? What made Oasis unique what the songs, the attitude, and song structure. They were perfect (BHN aside). Liam's tunes are good enough, some are basic, yes. but It's not the melody Liam is lacking, he just need a good producer to be taken to the next level.
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Post by borntohang on Sept 8, 2017 15:46:03 GMT -5
Anyone who's written stuff like Songbird, Born on a Different Cloud, Boy With the Blues, I'm Outta Time or Start Anew does not need any help in the songwriting department. And the fact that all journalists forget to mention this in interviews when talking/asking about songs and songwriting is just appalling.
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Post by revol on Sept 12, 2017 2:54:16 GMT -5
What Liam should do, is to pair with ONE songwriter and craft some tunes together. And I mean actually write new songs and not use some unreleased stuff that's been lying in someone's drawer waiting for the label to ask "Hey, it's the Warner A&R team, got something for the Oasis singer?".
I think that the process of cooperating directly with someone would: a) give Liam confidence and a chance to polish his ideas and b) give this whole project a lot more authenticity.
Yeah, I might be bashing his tunes in other threads, but I still kind of believe in Liam as a songwriter and at the end of the day I blame Warner for releasing shit like FWIW, not him.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2017 3:35:47 GMT -5
He should give Stuart Murdoch a call. It's been some time since the man has written a great song but he's one of the best melodist of the last 25 years.
Or maybe Molly Rankin ? James Skelly ? Lee Mavers ?
The thing is: will these people give their best to write tunes for/with Liam ? Except for Mavers, they all have their acts going on. So maybe the solution is to collaborate with someone who is totally free but it's harder to find.
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Post by justaroundmidnight on Sept 12, 2017 4:45:36 GMT -5
Anyone who's written stuff like Songbird, Born on a Different Cloud, Boy With the Blues, I'm Outta Time or Start Anew does not need any help in the songwriting department. And the fact that all journalists forget to mention this in interviews when talking/asking about songs and songwriting is just appalling. Soul Love ain't too shabby either.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2017 7:39:49 GMT -5
He should employ that guy who wrote all those Oasis hits back in the 90's. I think it would suit him nicely.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2017 8:20:52 GMT -5
Songbird and Born On A Different Cloud are good songs (the 2 best ones on HC for me) but I've never understood the appeal for Start A New. Always thought it was quite poor.
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Post by neila83 on Sept 12, 2017 12:53:08 GMT -5
Songbird and Born On A Different Cloud are good songs (the 2 best ones on HC for me) but I've never understood the appeal for Start A New. Always thought it was quite poor. Or Boy with the Blues, for me the most overrated song in recorded history. Goes nowhere, dull chorus that sounds like the record got stuck. How some people seem to think this could have saved DOYS is completely beyond me. Plodding, which is a common trait of Liam songs, despite all his bravado about being punk. Also, god knows how much help Liam got from the band with Born on a different cloud, I remember an interview where i think he said they arranged it all. Liam is a singer, not a song-writer, and I just do not get this obsession with turning him into a songwriter. He's average at best and should stick to what he's good at, putting some menace on good rock and roll songs. Not lame half arsed ballads outside his vocal range written for the radio. For the love of god go and speak to some artists who have a passing affinity with your genre, and stop completely wasting what god gave you.
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