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Post by defmaybe00 on Jul 22, 2021 17:37:43 GMT -5
I've been revisiting The Smiths a lot lately. Still astounded at what a masterpiece this tune is. I never understood the covers for this tune, it just baffles me how anyone could tamper with such perfection. Nothing else sounds like it
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Post by defmaybe00 on Jul 22, 2021 18:57:44 GMT -5
I was feared this album wouldn't come close to Psychodrama, which I have listened to a million times in the last couple of years, but this track alone is worth it
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Post by defmaybe00 on Jul 23, 2021 3:28:59 GMT -5
I was feared this album wouldn't come close to Psychodrama, which I have listened to a million times in the last couple of years, but this track alone is worth it I probably could've listened to this whole record just in the time I'm spending waiting Kanye's DONDA party to start. How was the album? On a similar level to Psychodrama? Only listened once yet cause it was late, but on first impression I'd say it's up there It's a bit more varied and some of the featurings really add on Last 4 songs go deep as well, which is what I wanted and expected from him Lazarus is the only track that didn't really make it for me, and I've never been a big fan of Clash, but overall the level's very consistent and the highs are a thing of beauty
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Jul 23, 2021 4:56:25 GMT -5
What's your all time favourite political song? Sunday Bloody Sunday Honorable Mentions: Ignoreland, Born in the USA, Masters of War, Rockin' in the Free World If I would never hear Born in the USA again, I would be content.
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Post by funhouse on Jul 23, 2021 8:42:49 GMT -5
Sunday Bloody Sunday Honorable Mentions: Ignoreland, Born in the USA, Masters of War, Rockin' in the Free World If I would never hear Born in the USA again, I would be content. This might make you change your mind!
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Post by megyesitomate on Jul 23, 2021 16:49:31 GMT -5
1989 Polish Rough Trade or 2012 reiussue of The Smiths? I'm just getting into record collecting.
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Post by matt on Jul 24, 2021 9:47:09 GMT -5
Was thinking about music royalties and songwriting rifts with my brother recently and was shocked that Andy Summers from The Police never received any royalties for his contribution to The Police's music - Sting taking 100% of all songwriting royalties. Although the basic songs were created by Sting (i.e. on an acoustic guitar), he never made up any of the riffs. He got all the money from the time Puff Daddy sampled the guitar riff from Every Breath You Take. Massive dick move.
I understand how the likes of Johnny Marr took split proceedings with Morrissey in The Smiths, despite Andy Rourke's brilliant playing on the bass - but understandable because the basslines were entirely created by Johnny, with Rourke being more of a session musician (albeit great one). But the Sting stuff really sticks in the throat - there's a musician with a massive ego encapsulated in that example.
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Jul 24, 2021 15:46:12 GMT -5
Was thinking about music royalties and songwriting rifts with my brother recently and was shocked that Andy Summers from The Police never received any royalties for his contribution to The Police's music - Sting taking 100% of all songwriting royalties. Although the basic songs were created by Sting (i.e. on an acoustic guitar), he never made up any of the riffs. He got all the money from the time Puff Daddy sampled the guitar riff from Every Breath You Take. Massive dick move. I understand how the likes of Johnny Marr took split proceedings with Morrissey in The Smiths, despite Andy Rourke's brilliant playing on the bass - but understandable because the basslines were entirely created by Johnny, with Rourke being more of a session musician (albeit great one). But the Sting stuff really sticks in the throat - there's a musician with a massive ego encapsulated in that example. That's interesting! I think that is a very difficult thing though, because where do you draw the line? In my opinion when someone makes up the riffs, which are usually such an essential part of the songs, they should get some kind of credit. I've heard various stories about similar cases and apparently it's some kind of difficult grey area, and I have no idea how it's arranged exactly.
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Post by Manualex on Jul 24, 2021 16:40:30 GMT -5
Was thinking about music royalties and songwriting rifts with my brother recently and was shocked that Andy Summers from The Police never received any royalties for his contribution to The Police's music - Sting taking 100% of all songwriting royalties. Although the basic songs were created by Sting (i.e. on an acoustic guitar), he never made up any of the riffs. He got all the money from the time Puff Daddy sampled the guitar riff from Every Breath You Take. Massive dick move. I understand how the likes of Johnny Marr took split proceedings with Morrissey in The Smiths, despite Andy Rourke's brilliant playing on the bass - but understandable because the basslines were entirely created by Johnny, with Rourke being more of a session musician (albeit great one). But the Sting stuff really sticks in the throat - there's a musician with a massive ego encapsulated in that example. That's interesting! I think that is a very difficult thing though, because where do you draw the line? In my opinion when someone makes up the riffs, which are usually such an essential part of the songs, they should get some kind of credit. I've heard various stories about similar cases and apparently it's some kind of difficult grey area, and I have no idea how it's arranged exactly. Thats something that varies from band to band. There are bands like Red Hot Chili Peppers, that split everything 4 ways to their band members no matter who comes up with the riff or song idea. Metallica is a band that James comes up with an idea and then Lars arrenges the idea in a way that ends up being a song. At times other members come up with parts and they end as songwriters but it's mainly those two who get the songwriting checks.
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Post by matt on Jul 24, 2021 17:20:21 GMT -5
Was thinking about music royalties and songwriting rifts with my brother recently and was shocked that Andy Summers from The Police never received any royalties for his contribution to The Police's music - Sting taking 100% of all songwriting royalties. Although the basic songs were created by Sting (i.e. on an acoustic guitar), he never made up any of the riffs. He got all the money from the time Puff Daddy sampled the guitar riff from Every Breath You Take. Massive dick move. I understand how the likes of Johnny Marr took split proceedings with Morrissey in The Smiths, despite Andy Rourke's brilliant playing on the bass - but understandable because the basslines were entirely created by Johnny, with Rourke being more of a session musician (albeit great one). But the Sting stuff really sticks in the throat - there's a musician with a massive ego encapsulated in that example. That's interesting! I think that is a very difficult thing though, because where do you draw the line? In my opinion when someone makes up the riffs, which are usually such an essential part of the songs, they should get some kind of credit. I've heard various stories about similar cases and apparently it's some kind of difficult grey area, and I have no idea how it's arranged exactly. I think when an instrumental part, composed by the non-principal songwriter, is such an integral part of the song's popularity then it deserves that individual's name on the songwriting credit. If it's just fairly basic, straight down the middle instrumentation, then there's more of an argument for the principal writer to keep all royalties. Sting may very well have come up with Every Breath You Take on his acoustic guitar but Andy Summer devised the riff that everyone knows which makes it such an instantly recognisable song. That and it's damn hard to play on the guitar (believe me I've tried)! One of the many reasons that Summers and drummer Stewart Copeland - who said that all the royalties Sting received from the Puff Daddy sampling should go to Summers - think of Sting as a complete dick.
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Post by girllikeabomb on Jul 24, 2021 19:23:35 GMT -5
That's interesting! I think that is a very difficult thing though, because where do you draw the line? In my opinion when someone makes up the riffs, which are usually such an essential part of the songs, they should get some kind of credit. I've heard various stories about similar cases and apparently it's some kind of difficult grey area, and I have no idea how it's arranged exactly. Thats something that varies from band to band. There are bands like Red Hot Chili Peppers, that split everything 4 ways to their band members no matter who comes up with the riff or song idea. Metallica is a band that James comes up with an idea and then Lars arrenges the idea in a way that ends up being a song. At times other members come up with parts and they end as songwriters but it's mainly those two who get the songwriting checks. Would be interesting for someone to study if bands that have an equitable split last longer on average than bands that don't ...
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Post by Headmaster on Jul 24, 2021 19:38:16 GMT -5
Love this, stunning image quality for a 1987 video.
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Post by matt on Jul 25, 2021 4:51:25 GMT -5
I've been revisiting The Smiths a lot lately. Still astounded at what a masterpiece this tune is. I never understood the covers for this tune, it just baffles me how anyone could tamper with such perfection. Nothing else sounds like it The 'indie Stairway to Heaven' is what I've heard it call. It's miles superior to Stairway to Heaven!
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Post by mimmihopps on Jul 25, 2021 6:04:28 GMT -5
This album never gets old.
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Post by The Escapist on Jul 25, 2021 16:28:57 GMT -5
Christ, this is beautiful. Late entry for Song of the Month, for me.
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Jul 25, 2021 16:57:00 GMT -5
Thats something that varies from band to band. There are bands like Red Hot Chili Peppers, that split everything 4 ways to their band members no matter who comes up with the riff or song idea. Metallica is a band that James comes up with an idea and then Lars arrenges the idea in a way that ends up being a song. At times other members come up with parts and they end as songwriters but it's mainly those two who get the songwriting checks. Would be interesting for someone to study if bands that have an equitable split last longer on average than bands that don't ... That would be very hard (but interesting), considering there are all sorts of reasons why bands split up. In order for the research to be valid, the bandmembers would have to specifically mention royalty/credit issues to be the/a reason.
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Post by girllikeabomb on Jul 25, 2021 17:56:11 GMT -5
Would be interesting for someone to study if bands that have an equitable split last longer on average than bands that don't ... That would be very hard (but interesting), considering there are all sorts of reasons why bands split up. In order for the research to be valid, the bandmembers would have to specifically mention royalty/credit issues to be the/a reason. But the stated reason they split up might be "hated each other" ... yet money/credit/fairness issues played a role in creating that venom underneath ... Agreed, it probably doesn't really work scientifically to simplify it like that, but there's something there that could be explored. Seems that like marriage and money, bands and money probably has a lot of side effects on the interpersonal dynamics.
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Post by Manualex on Jul 25, 2021 18:24:54 GMT -5
Would be interesting for someone to study if bands that have an equitable split last longer on average than bands that don't ... That would be very hard (but interesting), considering there are all sorts of reasons why bands split up. In order for the research to be valid, the bandmembers would have to specifically mention royalty/credit issues to be the/a reason. I'll copy and paste one statement of Serj of SOAD, which explains why there hasnt been new material since 2005 Confessions about Soad by Serj Tankian We are extremely lucky mofos for our fans to want a record out of our ragtag misfit of a crew after all these years, at times demanding it. This of course has led to numerous rumors about the band and our inability to make a record together coupled with he said/he said excerpts from each of our interviews in the past and present at times by sensationalism seeking media who are in no way, let’s say, changing the world for the better themselves 🙂 So I’m going to attempt to clarify things for all of our sake once and for all hopefully without vilifying anyone in the process. It is true that I and only I was responsible for the hiatus Soad took in 2006. Everyone else wanted to continue at the same pace to tour and make records. I didn’t. Why? For numerous reasons: Artistic: I’ve always felt continuing to do the same thing with the same people over time is artistically redundant even for a dynamic outfit like ours. By that time I felt that I needed a little time to do my own work. I wasn’t discounting restarting the process with the band later. Egalitarianism: When we first started out our creative input and financial revenue splits were close to equal within the band. By the time Mezmerize/Hypnotize came around we were at the diametrically opposite end on both with Daron controlling both the creative process and making the lions share of publishing not to mention wanting to be the only one to do press. I wanted to leave the band before Mezmerize/Hypnotize for these developing reasons. This is why I personally don’t feel as close to the music on those records. There were songs I wanted to bring in but was hampered by unkept promises coupled by my own passivity at the time. Time went by, we all did our own thing. My solo career gave me the confidence as a songwriter and later composer to re-visit Soad from a position of strength at first just to tour and enjoy each others’ company, which we did and do so still. I knew they wanted to make a record, but given the past I was hesitant. At times there would be emotionally tinged outbursts by one band member or another mostly blaming me for the band’s inactivity. After a long time thinking and processing, about 2 years ago, I went to the guys with a proposition for a way forward as a band. I wanted to rectify the wrongs of the past and establish a way we can all be happy moving forward so I recommended the following: Equal creative input: by this time I had released 5 of my own records and was a better songwriter musically and Daron was getting better as a lyricist, so I said let’s each bring in 6 songs that all band members approve fully and work on them along with songs or riffs from Shavo. Equal publishing split: I personally feel that a band is an equal partnership and finances should reflect that. Directors cut: whomever wrote the song makes the final decision after exhausting all types of ideas from anybody within the group. I did this because in the past, I’d bring in a song that would be morphed into an undesirable version that I myself would withdraw from consideration. Develop a new concept or theme so that it’s not just a record but a full experience. (Obviously I’m omitting many other details here like agreeing on the “sound” of a new record which we couldn’t do either as we went back and forth with songs by Daron and myself. I remember sending lots of notes on songs by Daron, mostly from his current Scars on Broadway record, most of which I didn’t consider applicable to Soad etc, they played around with some of my songs-suffice to say I think we tried). Ultimately I had to draw a line in the sand because I knew I could never be happy going back to how things used to be within the band. And as we couldn’t see eye to eye on all these points we decided to put aside the idea of a record altogether for the time being. My only regret is that we have been collectively unable to give you another Soad record. For that I apologize. Thanks for reading Peace Serj
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Post by The Escapist on Jul 26, 2021 16:37:51 GMT -5
MOST UNDER-RATED SONGS FROM MY TOP TEN ARTISTS:
Oasis: Underneath the Sky Coldplay: Chinese Sleep Chant Kanye West: Everything I Am Radiohead: Give Up the Ghost Bon Iver: 666t Bob Dylan: Series of Dreams The Beatles: Good Night Lana Del Rey: Old Money Arcade Fire: Peter Pan MF DOOM: Rap Ambush
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yogurt
Oasis Roadie
Posts: 363
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Post by yogurt on Jul 27, 2021 7:41:58 GMT -5
Although the early Verve stuff from the first album is a cool sound, great guitar playing from Nick McCabe etc,...
The songs are just not that great..
Who’s with me?
I get the feeling that most people who say that Urban Hymns is poor and A Storm In Heaven is great are kicking back at the popularity more than the music, for cool points.
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Post by Elie De Beaufour 🐴 on Jul 28, 2021 2:52:10 GMT -5
RIP Joey Jordison, too young.
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Post by theyknowwhatimean on Jul 28, 2021 3:16:20 GMT -5
The Style Council just get better and better for me.
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Post by mkoasis on Aug 1, 2021 8:15:25 GMT -5
Although the early Verve stuff from the first album is a cool sound, great guitar playing from Nick McCabe etc,... The songs are just not that great.. Who’s with me? I get the feeling that most people who say that Urban Hymns is poor and A Storm In Heaven is great are kicking back at the popularity more than the music, for cool points. I would disagree. I’d never say UH is poor and I don’t think I’ve ever heard any Verve fan say that. But the songs are fundamentally of a different kind from the early EPs and ASIH to the more singer-songwriter tracks we see on UH. I don’t love one or other more, both are valued equally, just differently. Sometimes you feel like “She’s a Superstar” is their greatest song, other times “Lucky man”. But it’s all The Verve to me.
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Post by mkoasis on Aug 1, 2021 8:17:46 GMT -5
The Style Council just get better and better for me. One of my most recent record shop finds has been a 7” single of Shout to the Top, which I’d say is my favourite of theirs. But I like quite a few of their songs. That said, I’ll admit I’ve never heard one of their albums apart from the singles/best of.
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Post by glider on Aug 1, 2021 9:43:41 GMT -5
Although the early Verve stuff from the first album is a cool sound, great guitar playing from Nick McCabe etc,... The songs are just not that great.. Who’s with me? I get the feeling that most people who say that Urban Hymns is poor and A Storm In Heaven is great are kicking back at the popularity more than the music, for cool points. I would disagree. I’d never say UH is poor and I don’t think I’ve ever heard any Verve fan say that. But the songs are fundamentally of a different kind from the early EPs and ASIH to the more singer-songwriter tracks we see on UH. I don’t love one or other more, both are valued equally, just differently. Sometimes you feel like “She’s a Superstar” is their greatest song, other times “Lucky man”. But it’s all The Verve to me. There's many ASIH purists I've seen on other forums that loathe UH and even heavily criticize ANH because of the more straightforward rock it has on it. On the Ashcroft forum it's the opposite. Interesting to see the dynamic between the two types of Verve fans.
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