|
Post by The Invisible Sun on Oct 20, 2014 7:26:15 GMT -5
Well you know, it's kind of the point of the thread. Imagining where you'd like to see Liam in 5 years. Obviously his life is his choice, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. Humans judge. It's what we do. We see the flaws in others and we discuss them. We see what might benefit individuals and what might harm them. Generally we wish people to overcome their flaws, if we care at all for the person living with them for their sake and the people the flaws effect. Having the choice over a matter says absolutely nothing about whether it's a moral idea. Suicide is a choice, but is it something we should accept and tolerate among our populations? I think most would say no. We live in a society and our actions have an effect on others, we can't be so selfish to ignore this under the presumption that we are entitled to do whatever we want just because we can. Actually i thought this thread is about where everyone would like to see Liam in 5 years musically... And i would like him to make music - do some collaborations - make a solo album or another BE album - tour - etc. Cause that´s the only effect on me and has nothing to do with his personal issues or whatever the sun is writing every now and again. For the rest. Yeah humans judge. Humans judge pretty fast. And judging about a person no one (i guess) here really knows is pretty lame imo. But if that´s what everyone wants to do, go on. You must not have read my post then. That's very much what it was about. Would you not agree that Liams lifestyle will influence and effect his musical output? Is it too much to ask for a singer to to try and improve a failing voice? Part of that will have to start with correcting anything that might affect his voice. I don't need to know him on a personal level to be able to make an accurate judgment. If he has a poor public image, then it's likely to do with his own actions. Now sure, tabloids like to twist things from time to time, but I think 20 years worth of press is enough to go on for blanket statements. What is this stigma against criticizing the personal life of public figures? Just because I idolize Liam, doesn't mean he's beyond my critique. I admire the man despite his flaws, but I don't think it's unacceptable to hope that in the future he'll be able to overcome them. My entire point was to suggest that if he were able to improve his voice, some of his former fans might just return and he'd have the success he wants. A lot of people hate his live voice, they just can't stand to hear it.
|
|
|
Post by cigsandalc on Oct 20, 2014 8:30:01 GMT -5
You must not have read my post then. That's very much what it was about. You wrote about humans judging and somehow even came up with suicide... And excuse me, but i don´t care about another conversation about his voice and what he should do or not. I wrote that i still love his voice at least on record (also i never thought at a gig "uh that´s bad") so why should he change, he won´t sound again as in 96-97 - deal with it. Don´t care about his personal life as I´m not 16 anymore but his poor public image was a huge part of Oasis´ success in the 90s. Yeah he´s not 21 anymore but he´s the same guy with habits that aren´t that easy to let go, especially when he likes those habits and got idolized because of them. BTW Is there really no FOTF SB/Pro-shot version except the Jools Holland performance?
|
|
|
Post by underneaththesky on Oct 20, 2014 10:11:07 GMT -5
they should release the last Manchester gig they played. would rather have the Rome one but it's unlikely. would be good.. just release the damn thing for Christmas. no fucking celebrations, just put it out. cheap to make and they could make some money out of it.
|
|
|
Post by Mr. Bigglesworth on Oct 20, 2014 10:24:41 GMT -5
I want a pro shot too. haven't even found the flick of the finger/ second bite of the apple pro shot from jools today. everywhere the video is private or deleted. DGSS had uncountable proshots and BE, which is as great, if not better, does have that one Mallorca gig, which was really the low point of his voice, because I think the drama with nicole started at that time.
|
|
|
Post by cigsandalc on Oct 20, 2014 10:33:46 GMT -5
FOTF at JH (not the best quality) is here:
|
|
|
Post by The Invisible Sun on Oct 20, 2014 12:36:40 GMT -5
You must not have read my post then. That's very much what it was about. You wrote about humans judging and somehow even came up with suicide... And excuse me, but i don´t care about another conversation about his voice and what he should do or not. I wrote that i still love his voice at least on record (also i never thought at a gig "uh that´s bad") so why should he change, he won´t sound again as in 96-97 - deal with it. Don´t care about his personal life as I´m not 16 anymore but his poor public image was a huge part of Oasis´ success in the 90s. Yeah he´s not 21 anymore but he´s the same guy with habits that aren´t that easy to let go, especially when he likes those habits and got idolized because of them. BTW Is there really no FOTF SB/Pro-shot version except the Jools Holland performance? "You wrote about humans judging and somehow even came up with suicide..." Yes, I did and for good reason. Your statement "It´s always funny to see people talking/writing about stars how they should live their lives although it´s none of their business... If Liam wants to drink, it´s his choice. If he wants to cheat on his girlfriend/wife, it´s his choice. If you like it ir not, i´m sure liam couldn´t care less." This was your argument, that it's all about Liam's choice and he could care less. While that's true that he's perfectly free to make his own choices, I demonstrated, by the example of suicide, that not all choices are necessarily good choices and that when people perceive a specific choice to be self defeating in some way, they criticize it. You're supporting Liam, based on his free will to do things that are self defeating and you;r complaining that others point it out and discuss it. On the other hand, if he were committing suicide, or trying to, I'm betting you wouldn't support such a choice. Most good people wouldn't. The logic isn't consistent there, your argument is flawed. "And excuse me, but i don´t care about another conversation about his voice and what he should do or not. I wrote that i still love his voice at least on record (also i never thought at a gig "uh that´s bad") so why should he change, he won´t sound again as in 96-97 - deal with it. " Then why did you bother replying? I don't expect his voice to sound like it was when he was 20-25. That's absurd. But he should be able to at least stop the nasal singing, have a higher range. "Don´t care about his personal life as I´m not 16 anymore but his poor public image was a huge part of Oasis´ success in the 90s. Yeah he´s not 21 anymore but he´s the same guy with habits that aren´t that easy to let go, especially when he likes those habits and got idolized because of them. " I'm only concerned with his personal life if it negatively effects his stage life. Considering that seems to be the case, I do hope that he can get over such problems...and end up as a success...hence the point of my post. Sure it's hard to let go of old habits, but it's entirely possible. At this point, I think most would agree those same old habits aren't doing anything for his public image and therefore isn't benefiting his career. In fact, it may even be squandering it. Which is yet another reason why I made the post.
|
|
|
Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Oct 20, 2014 13:30:40 GMT -5
"It's okay because he does what he wants" is a weird argument anyway. Does killing people out of free will make it okay? Don't fucking think so.
|
|
|
Post by Beady’s Here Now on Oct 20, 2014 13:38:54 GMT -5
eva's probably fucked Liam. God bless. Before or after me? Probably at the same time....
|
|
|
Post by Let It 🩸 on Oct 20, 2014 13:57:10 GMT -5
eva's probably fucked Liam. God bless. Before or after me? Probably at the same time.... God bless.
|
|
|
Post by theyknowwhatimean on Oct 20, 2014 14:04:58 GMT -5
Liam needs psychiatric help. He needs to deal with his anger issues.
|
|
|
Post by The Milkman & The Riverman on Oct 20, 2014 14:05:30 GMT -5
The world is up if youre tough enough, Liam. Btw. just remind myself of this song, and if this chorus was in Noel single you'd be all going it's better than Beatles. In Liam we trust, he's the last out there with balls. I have no doubt that we gonna hear new Beady Eye record next year. Especially when the last tour was so short, knowing Liam he wants to be back on stage already. Noel can't get away with his succesful solo career against Beady Eye failure. They have to try once more and kick ass properly. I'd love his solo album or project with new people, but i'm afraid they're too close friends with Andy and Gem to make it happen. And I don't want to be against Noel or anything but sometimes i feel like Liam's role in Oasis is so underrated here and in general. Of course Noel wrote the songs,but he was the lead singer for fuck sake, he was the face of this band. First time you hear Supersonic you don't know who the fuck is Noel Gallagher you just see and hear Liam singing this song and looking cooler than anybody else. It's sad that he somehow cannot prove himself now, i wish he will, cause he's the first reason we all payed attention to this band, he is the icon, he's the guy we should send in box to outter space to make aliens shit all over their pants.
|
|
|
Post by cigsandalc on Oct 20, 2014 14:46:19 GMT -5
First of all it´s like a duscussion with my ex... This was your argument, that it's all about Liam's choice and he could care less. While that's true that he's perfectly free to make his own choices, I demonstrated, by the example of suicide, that not all choices are necessarily good choices and that when people perceive a specific choice to be self defeating in some way, they criticize it. You're supporting Liam, based on his free will to do things that are self defeating and you;r complaining that others point it out and discuss it. On the other hand, if he were committing suicide, or trying to, I'm betting you wouldn't support such a choice. Most good people wouldn't. The logic isn't consistent there, your argument is flawed. Comparing cheating/drinking/doing drugs of a rockstar with suicide is a bit too much in my book. I´m not supporting Liam because of his free will to whatever he wants to do, I´m supporting the free will to do whatever anyone wants to do. No, i won´t defend raping or killing but this is waaaaay out of this topic and shouldn´t even be a discussion (i know that´s not really english but it´s not my first language). Suicide is a different story but still has nothing to do with Liam (if you really want to talk about this topic pm me, but this has really nothing to do with liam/noel/bdi/hfb/oasis). So if you think my argument is flawed, ok. Then why did you bother replying? I don't expect his voice to sound like it was when he was 20-25. That's absurd. But he should be able to at least stop the nasal singing, have a higher range. Because when i have a discussion i try to answer to whatever argument is being said to me... I'm only concerned with his personal life if it negatively effects his stage life. Considering that seems to be the case, I do hope that he can get over such problems...and end up as a success...hence the point of my post. Sure it's hard to let go of old habits, but it's entirely possible. At this point, I think most would agree those same old habits aren't doing anything for his public image and therefore isn't benefiting his career. In fact, it may even be squandering it. Which is yet another reason why I made the post. I honestly hope his (private) life ends up as a success, his stage life is a success since he´s 21. Of course it´s possible, but when he doesn´t want to change it he won´t change it! Fu** the public image, when did Oasis ever care about public image? Liam won´t grow up (maybe he will someday) and that´s why i love the guy. I´m sure he´s a good father, he´s a good husband/boyfriend, he´s a good son,... but he has his flaws. Some have more, some less. But at the end it´s his decision and he has to live with the results of his actions, not you, not me, not noel. Liam has and he still seems to be happy with it. And now, good night
|
|
|
Post by The Invisible Sun on Oct 20, 2014 16:20:09 GMT -5
"Comparing cheating/drinking/doing drugs of a rockstar with suicide is a bit too much in my book."
If you truly think so, then you have no understanding of the logic at hand. It could be alcohol and suicide or it could be adultery and smoking. It doesn't matter. I chose suicide, because you're probably aware of how it affects others. As I said, generally people agree it's a bad thing. A bad choice. A negative choice. Not many people would claim suicide is a good thing, which is why it's the perfect example. Near universal consensus.
You don't seem to appreciate others judging Liam. You seem to think it's not in someone's place to judge him. I find this hypocritical, because it's in our nature to judge. Example; Suicide. You would likely judge that choice. It doesn't matter if it's a more extreme act than drinking alcohol, what matters is that you've gone from a position against judgement to a position of judgement. Earlier you implied that if he's making a choice, then it's okay, it's none of our business. The flaw hear is hypocrisy.
We're only off topic because you began a tangent on not judging Liam because he's a man that makes his own choices. Obviously a dig at my post, where I did criticize Liam and his choices.
"Of course it´s possible, but when he doesn´t want to change it he won´t change it! Fu** the public image, when did Oasis ever care about public image? Liam won´t grow up (maybe he will someday) and that´s why i love the guy. I´m sure he´s a good father, he´s a good husband/boyfriend, he´s a good son,... but he has his flaws. Some have more, some less. But at the end it´s his decision and he has to live with the results of his actions, not you, not me, not noel. Liam has and he still seems to be happy with it."
I like Liam's fuck the public image. What I don't appreciate is the fuck the fans image. Music is his career, he's got hundreds of thousands of fans. If there's one thing he should respect to the hundredth percentile, it's that. Liam shouldn't show up drunk or hungover to a gig for the same reasons that any of us wouldn't show up to work in the same way.
Again, I could care less about his private life. But that's only as long as it stays at home...in private. When he brings it to public view, to the stage and gives sub-par performances, that's where I have issue, because his professionalism is in question. Surely the man can give his absolute best for a night or two a week to the fans that make him rich and famous. It's really not asking much.
|
|
|
Post by Let It 🩸 on Oct 20, 2014 16:25:51 GMT -5
this thread needs some blonde lesbians.
God bless.
|
|
|
Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Oct 20, 2014 16:37:41 GMT -5
Yawn.
|
|
squire
Oasis Roadie
This old town don't smell too pretty
Posts: 348
|
Post by squire on Oct 20, 2014 20:39:36 GMT -5
This is what happens when people stop caring about the music and start caring about the drama.
|
|
|
Post by cigsandalc on Oct 21, 2014 8:28:59 GMT -5
Let´s agree to disagree Liam should have a No. 1 Single plus Album just because he needs it (i guess).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 9:36:25 GMT -5
Can everybody just fuckin' calm down?
|
|
|
Post by The Invisible Sun on Oct 21, 2014 11:41:50 GMT -5
Let´s agree to disagree Liam should have a No. 1 Single plus Album just because he needs it (i guess). Well I agree, but that was the entire point of my posts to begin with. For Liam to be more successful, although, I don't think he needs it, he just wants it. I'm just hoping he doesn't follow through with what he said before the release of BE, if the new album were to fail.
|
|
|
Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Oct 21, 2014 13:42:14 GMT -5
What was it what he said?
|
|
|
Post by Let It 🩸 on Oct 21, 2014 14:46:28 GMT -5
What was it what he said? It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh... You know what I'm trying to say... God bless.
|
|
|
Post by The Invisible Sun on Oct 21, 2014 16:13:12 GMT -5
What was it what he said? "Well, if we're barking up the wrong tree with this record, I don't know if I can be arsed barking up it again," and "Maybe I'd just sail off into the distance and enjoy my life, instead of worrying what some spotty little twat from Hastings thinks about the record." He's probably not sincere about it, but one can never know.
|
|
|
Post by Lennon2217 on Oct 21, 2014 16:41:27 GMT -5
What was it what he said? It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh... You know what I'm trying to say... God bless. I am the walrus.
|
|
|
Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Oct 21, 2014 16:54:39 GMT -5
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh... You know what I'm trying to say... God bless. I am the walrus. GOO GOO G'JOOB!
|
|
|
Post by Lennon2217 on Oct 21, 2014 16:59:32 GMT -5
I am the walrus. GOO GOO G'JOOB! SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNIE!!!!!!! V. I. Lenin! Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov!
|
|