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Post by gdforever on Jul 6, 2011 11:21:52 GMT -5
I don't think anyone agrees with Liam's physical actions, but we don't have any clue what Noel might have said to set him off or provoke him. Blame goes both ways in any fight, but as you said, there's no reason for someone Liam's age to act in that manner. Based on Noel's description it sounds like Liam was fuming and just in a sort of rage. We still don't know what was said and what set it off. Noel has to share some blame. I think people defending Liam outright are under the assumption there was a trigger to his outburst and we still don't totally know what it was or how antagonistic Noel's comments might have been. Sticks and stones. How bad would the words have to be before grevious bodily harm would be justified? Liam was out of order. 36 year old men shouldn't leave a room, walk down a hall, grab a guitar, walk back, and try to hit their 40 year old brother in the head. I originally thought the guitars had been in the room. To discover that Liam LEFT the fight and either went to his room to get the guitar or just happened to see the guitar and thought "I'm gonna go back and hit Noel with this" is fucking nuts. |
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Post by tomlivesforever on Jul 6, 2011 11:26:46 GMT -5
Noel said that Gem was a peacekeeper in the band. Maybe it was because Gem did diffuse the situations sometimes and contribute that way. Noone ever said that about Andy. Maybe it was that Andy never did anything. Gem sometimes did. I think that the other 2 should have been involved. And that was Noel's point. He and Liam were fighting about the band. The other band members refused to Honestly...that night Noel sounded in the right. And the fact is...Liam sounded out of order. I don't know what worlds you guys live in...but sensible 36 year old men do not attack their 40 year old brothers with guitars. They did that shit when they were on drugs in their 20's. Noel hitting Liam with a cricket bat, Liam hitting Noel wit a tamborine. Liam was right...I am sure they had worse arguements...but sounds like not recently. But who seriously thinks that Noel is unreasonable not to want to be in a band with a man, brother or not, who at 36 tried to hit him in the HEAD with a GUITAR! WTF you guys. Well I know which world you live in and its Noel world. You accept everything he say's a face value. There's no doubt Liam is not a blamless party in this but to just a take what Noel say's as gospel is pretty naive. He's a clever man more than capable of using the media and his percieved honesty probably allows him to get away with more. And again you don't seem to understand that brothers work in a different way. You always attempt to be logical about something that often doesn't have any. I've seen two brothers, one in his 30's one in his 40's, both intelligent, peaceful respected people in my area trade blows over not much in my local pub. Its just a different thing that no-one outside of those too will ever fully appreciate or explain. |
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Post by Officer Jim Kurring on Jul 6, 2011 11:32:44 GMT -5
Noel said that Gem was a peacekeeper in the band. Maybe it was because Gem did diffuse the situations sometimes and contribute that way. Noone ever said that about Andy. Maybe it was that Andy never did anything. Gem sometimes did. I think that the other 2 should have been involved. And that was Noel's point. He and Liam were fighting about the band. The other band members refused to Honestly...that night Noel sounded in the right. And the fact is...Liam sounded out of order. I don't know what worlds you guys live in...but sensible 36 year old men do not attack their 40 year old brothers with guitars. They did that shit when they were on drugs in their 20's. Noel hitting Liam with a cricket bat, Liam hitting Noel wit a tamborine. Liam was right...I am sure they had worse arguements...but sounds like not recently. But who seriously thinks that Noel is unreasonable not to want to be in a band with a man, brother or not, who at 36 tried to hit him in the HEAD with a GUITAR! WTF you guys. Well I know which world you live in and its Noel world. You accept everything he say's a face value. There's no doubt Liam is not a blamless party in this but to just a take what Noel say's as gospel is pretty naive. He's a clever man more than capable of using the media and his percieved honesty probably allows him to get away with more. And again you don't seem to understand that brothers work in a different way. You always attempt to be logical about something that often doesn't have any. I've seen two brothers, one in his 30's one in his 40's, both intelligent, peaceful respected people in my area trade blows over not much in my local pub. Its just a different thing that no-one outside of those too will ever fully appreciate or explain. of course you come in with your opposing opinion, no matter the subject. from what i've seen, and i'm not taking sides, what's that? Noel's account seems much more believable and true. has the entire world gone crazy? |
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Post by BlueJay on Jul 6, 2011 11:35:17 GMT -5
Well I know which world you live in and its Noel world. You accept everything he say's a face value. There's no doubt Liam is not a blamless party in this but to just a take what Noel say's as gospel is pretty naive. He's a clever man more than capable of using the media and his percieved honesty probably allows him to get away with more. And again you don't seem to understand that brothers work in a different way. You always attempt to be logical about something that often doesn't have any. I've seen two brothers, one in his 30's one in his 40's, both intelligent, peaceful respected people in my area trade blows over not much in my local pub. Its just a different thing that no-one outside of those too will ever fully appreciate or explain. of course you come in with your opposing opinion, no matter the subject. from what i've seen, and i'm not taking sides, what's that? Noel's account seems much more believable and true. has the entire world gone crazy? This. It's not about who's better out of Liam and Noel, the truth is that Liam was out of order and broke up the band and that Noel was rightly disgusted with him |
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Post by tomlivesforever on Jul 6, 2011 11:36:36 GMT -5
Well I know which world you live in and its Noel world. You accept everything he say's a face value. There's no doubt Liam is not a blamless party in this but to just a take what Noel say's as gospel is pretty naive. He's a clever man more than capable of using the media and his percieved honesty probably allows him to get away with more. And again you don't seem to understand that brothers work in a different way. You always attempt to be logical about something that often doesn't have any. I've seen two brothers, one in his 30's one in his 40's, both intelligent, peaceful respected people in my area trade blows over not much in my local pub. Its just a different thing that no-one outside of those too will ever fully appreciate or explain. of course you come in with your opposing opinion, no matter the subject. from what i've seen, and i'm not taking sides, what's that? Noel's account seems much more believable and true. has the entire world gone crazy? But I have always opposed this view, am I not allowed to oppose your view? 'Noel's account seems much more believable and true' Why? because it was more eloquent? it was better delivered? I'm not saying its not true, but to blindly accept it is rediculous. I thought Liam said if Noel comes out with more he would go deeper into it so we will have to wait and see what happens next. He might say nothing and show Noel to be right. |
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Post by Officer Jim Kurring on Jul 6, 2011 11:43:08 GMT -5
of course you come in with your opposing opinion, no matter the subject. from what i've seen, and i'm not taking sides, what's that? Noel's account seems much more believable and true. has the entire world gone crazy? But I have always opposed this view, am I not allowed to oppose your view? 'Noel's account seems much more believable and true' Why? because it was more eloquent? it was better delivered? I'm not saying its not true, but to blindly accept it is rediculous. I thought Liam said if Noel comes out with more he would go deeper into it so we will have to wait and see what happens next. He might say nothing and show Noel to be right. from Liam's short account, and his track record, plus Noel's account, which seems true, i'll believe Noel and so would any court. but that doesn't even really matter, especially after an unfit, baby-murdering mother got off on murder charges in the u.s.a. just yesterday. i'm not discussing this anymore, i have to go change a tire and live real ife. |
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Jul 6, 2011 11:45:31 GMT -5
I understand Noel's initial reaction a lot more now. I'm still playing catch up with today's events so won't craft a meaningful post for awhile yet.
However, Noel's version of the story gives me a sense of surrealism. It was really difficult to hear and imagine. It's just really sad, in the end.
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Post by spaneli on Jul 6, 2011 11:52:01 GMT -5
I understand Noel's initial reaction a lot more now. I'm still playing catch up with today's events so won't craft a meaningful post for awhile yet. However, Noel's version of the story gives me a sense of surrealism. It was really difficult to hear and imagine. It's just really sad, in the end. Me too. I'm going to need time to actually think about it. |
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Post by gdforever on Jul 6, 2011 11:54:51 GMT -5
I understand Noel's initial reaction a lot more now. I'm still playing catch up with today's events so won't craft a meaningful post for awhile yet. However, Noel's version of the story gives me a sense of surrealism. It was really difficult to hear and imagine. It's just really sad, in the end. It does make me sad. Especially because Noel sounds shaken by it still. He's not flippant. Noel is always flippant. |
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Post by LlAM on Jul 6, 2011 11:57:32 GMT -5
(I) won't craft a meaningful post for awhile yet. I wont hold my breath, if you know what I mean |
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Post by shoes222 on Jul 6, 2011 11:58:31 GMT -5
I think actually hearing Noel use words like "I regret" and lamenting that "things could've been different" is what really bothers me the most.
After watching that press conference you get the feeling he really DIDN'T want to split up Oasis after all, unlike what Liam was claiming this whole time that Noel wanted out of the band.
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Post by gdforever on Jul 6, 2011 12:01:23 GMT -5
I think actually hearing Noel use words like "I regret" and lamenting that "things could've been different" is what really bothers me the most. After watching that press conference you get the feeling he really DIDN'T want to split up Oasis after all, unlike what Liam was claiming this whole time that Noel wanted out of the band. He's in a different mood than we've ever seen him, I think. It's weird...plus the hair...which is growing on me. Makes his head not look so big...but you can see his ears...so hmmm |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2011 12:14:06 GMT -5
(I) won't craft a meaningful post for awhile yet. I wont hold my breath, if you know what I mean ;D |
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Post by tomlivesforever on Jul 6, 2011 12:16:21 GMT -5
But I have always opposed this view, am I not allowed to oppose your view? 'Noel's account seems much more believable and true' Why? because it was more eloquent? it was better delivered? I'm not saying its not true, but to blindly accept it is rediculous. I thought Liam said if Noel comes out with more he would go deeper into it so we will have to wait and see what happens next. He might say nothing and show Noel to be right. i'm not discussing this anymore, i have to go change a tire and live real ife. AKA my point might not stand up. |
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dion
Oasis Roadie
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Post by dion on Jul 6, 2011 12:17:42 GMT -5
Noel and Liam's story dont clash at all do they? Apart from the bit about walking out of the room to get the guitar we've learned nothing new? Pretty clear Liam was in the wrong that night (and V, obviously) the provocation before hand we can only speculate at.
It's a fight between brothers so I wont even begin to judge, all I'll say is being in a band with Liam Gallagher must be fucking chewy. The only thing I am annoyed about is the Pretty Green business, it's an Oasis program ffs, you're charging £15 or whatever it is for one and you think it's not right Liam advertises in there?! Fuck off...
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Post by Rifles on Jul 6, 2011 12:27:50 GMT -5
I don't think anyone agrees with Liam's physical actions, but we don't have any clue what Noel might have said to set him off or provoke him. Blame goes both ways in any fight, but as you said, there's no reason for someone Liam's age to act in that manner. Based on Noel's description it sounds like Liam was fuming and just in a sort of rage. We still don't know what was said and what set it off. Noel has to share some blame. I think people defending Liam outright are under the assumption there was a trigger to his outburst and we still don't totally know what it was or how antagonistic Noel's comments might have been. Sticks and stones. How bad would the words have to be before grevious bodily harm would be justified? Liam was out of order. 36 year old men shouldn't leave a room, walk down a hall, grab a guitar, walk back, and try to hit their 40 year old brother in the head. I originally thought the guitars had been in the room. To discover that Liam LEFT the fight and either went to his room to get the guitar or just happened to see the guitar and thought "I'm gonna go back and hit Noel with this" is fucking nuts. I'm in no way condoning Liam's actions. I agree with you that its ridiculous for him to have done what he did and there's no logical explanation for his actions. I'm simply trying to show the other side of the coin and express that Noel is not innocent as it always takes 2 people to fight. This paints Liam in a terrible light, but we should wait till we hear from him again to get the rest of his side of the story before totally condemning him. |
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Post by gdforever on Jul 6, 2011 12:29:24 GMT -5
Noel and Liam's story not clash at all do they? Apart from the bit about walking out of the room to get the guitar we've learned nothing new? It's a fight between brothers so I wont even begin to judge, all I'll say is being in a band with Liam Gallagher must be fucking chewy. The only thing I am annoyed about is the Pretty Green business, it's an Oasis program ffs, you're charging £15 or whatever it is for one and you think it's not right Liam advertises in there?! Fuck off... I think that everyone can agree after that fight Oasis was right to end. How either describe it...the situation had reached the boiling point. It's all about the reason for the split really. Some believe Noel that he wasn't planning to leave Oasis...it just blew up and he walked away. Some believe that it was some sinister plan by Noel is engineer the split of Oasis so he could have his solo career that he is obviously so ecstatic about now (I think he sound pretty freaked out personally...and he is STILL talking about not wanting to be a front man...just like he always did before the split...so why he'd engineer a split is beyond me) There is nothing in the stories that clash in terms of the sequence of events. It comes down to whether you believe Liam's interpretation of Noel's thoughts. Or whether you believe Noel's statements about what he was thinking. And considering how solipsistic Liam is...I tend to believe Noel's statements...because Liam has never demonstrated the ability to understand Noel's thought processes...so I don't know why I'd believe he'd know know thoughts from that night...or even that year. |
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Post by gdforever on Jul 6, 2011 12:32:35 GMT -5
Sticks and stones. How bad would the words have to be before grevious bodily harm would be justified? Liam was out of order. 36 year old men shouldn't leave a room, walk down a hall, grab a guitar, walk back, and try to hit their 40 year old brother in the head. I originally thought the guitars had been in the room. To discover that Liam LEFT the fight and either went to his room to get the guitar or just happened to see the guitar and thought "I'm gonna go back and hit Noel with this" is fucking nuts. I'm in no way condoning Liam's actions. I agree with you that its ridiculous for him to have done what he did and there's no logical explanation for his actions. I'm simply trying to show the other side of the coin and express that Noel is not innocent as it always takes 2 people to fight. This paints Liam in a terrible light, but we should wait till we hear from him again to get the rest of his side of the story before totally condemning him. They were both stupid to fight. Noel is better with words...so he probably won the verbal spar. But Liam to that one step further....and to walk into another room and get something to use as a weapon and then return. That is unfathomable to me. Liam's maturation got retarded (in the right use of the word) somewhere along the way...because that isn't a normal response |
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Post by shoes222 on Jul 6, 2011 12:40:21 GMT -5
Liam's been in a band professionally since he was 19. The entire Oasis ride was overall pure fun for him, having your brother do most of the work for over a decade while you just show up and sing the songs. Because he entered this as a teenager, Liam never really had to "grow up" or be mature.
It's the same thing with child actors and the like.
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Post by matt on Jul 6, 2011 12:49:36 GMT -5
'I've lost loads of respect for Andy?' etc, etc, etc,.
WTF? It's none of our business what his relationship with Noel was. Many folk would keep out of the whole fight - sensibly so as they probably believe it is none of their business. We're all different - I find it a real shame how people are slating Andy Bell for this.
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Post by novascotialad on Jul 6, 2011 12:50:11 GMT -5
that's a valid point shoes
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Post by gdforever on Jul 6, 2011 12:53:48 GMT -5
Liam's been in a band professionally since he was 19. The entire Oasis ride was overall pure fun for him, having your brother do most of the work for over a decade while you just show up and sing the songs. Because he entered this as a teenager, Liam never really had to "grow up" or be mature. It's the same thing with child actors and the like. Funnily enough I think he is worst with Noel. Remember that quote off Gem when Liam left the interview early sober? The interviewer asked Gem how the night would have been different if Noel had been there? Gem said, If Noel were here he'd be insisting everyone not get too wild and not stay too late because of the gig tomorrow...Liam'd get drunk and stay out until all hours to wind him up. |
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Post by tomlivesforever on Jul 6, 2011 13:06:00 GMT -5
Liam's been in a band professionally since he was 19. The entire Oasis ride was overall pure fun for him, having your brother do most of the work for over a decade while you just show up and sing the songs. Because he entered this as a teenager, Liam never really had to "grow up" or be mature. It's the same thing with child actors and the like. I'd imagine you have to grow up quite quickly when your father hits you and your family has little money. The armchair psychoanalysis going on in this thread of Liam is hilarious. |
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Post by Headmaster on Jul 6, 2011 13:09:23 GMT -5
The thing is that Andy was Liam best mate in Oasis post 2000, Andy is more close to him than to Noel, this is clearly evident in pictures and interviews, hell, it was Liam who gave the idea to Noel to bring Andy, who isn't even a official bassist, to play bass with Oasis, Noel agreed more to please Liam.
Yeah, there are pictures of Noel and Andy togheter in the 90's, so what?? There are a lot o pictures with Liam and Robbie Williams togheter being close freinds, It means that both are still friends now??
So at that night Noel expected that Andy would calm Liam down, but then he saw Andy ignoring him and then after Oasis split he saw Andy with his wife, Liam and Nicole at that pool, it is really very strange.
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Post by Nyron Nosworthy on Jul 6, 2011 13:10:39 GMT -5
I don't think anyone agrees with Liam's physical actions, but we don't have any clue what Noel might have said to set him off or provoke him. Blame goes both ways in any fight, but as you said, there's no reason for someone Liam's age to act in that manner. Based on Noel's description it sounds like Liam was fuming and just in a sort of rage. We still don't know what was said and what set it off. Noel has to share some blame. I think people defending Liam outright are under the assumption there was a trigger to his outburst and we still don't totally know what it was or how antagonistic Noel's comments might have been. Sticks and stones. How bad would the words have to be before grevious bodily harm would be justified? Liam was out of order. 36 year old men shouldn't leave a room, walk down a hall, grab a guitar, walk back, and try to hit their 40 year old brother in the head. I originally thought the guitars had been in the room. To discover that Liam LEFT the fight and either went to his room to get the guitar or just happened to see the guitar and thought "I'm gonna go back and hit Noel with this" is fucking nuts. What is fucking nuts is you assuming it was premeditated. I would imagine - though in no way assume - that they argued, Liam left the room in frustration, picked up his guitar (bearing in mind it was supposedly his prized possession), went back to have it out with Noel again as the argument wasn't over, then anger took over. Not only to people tend not to think rationally when they're angry, but they often don't think at all. Do you seriously Liam thought "I'll go and get my guitar and smash his face in" while they were arguing? Not condoning his behaviour but don't make Noel out to be whiter than white while evil, twisted Liam plotted his downfall. |
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