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Post by NYR on Oct 3, 2009 21:24:50 GMT -5
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2009 6:32:17 GMT -5
shows how little we know about him if this only comes to light because of a recent picture.
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Post by matt on Oct 4, 2009 6:34:37 GMT -5
A filthy piece of work that man is.
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Post by NYR on Oct 4, 2009 13:28:07 GMT -5
the man's family were practicing jews before he was born. oh, this is priceless.
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Post by puretone on Oct 13, 2009 9:07:24 GMT -5
How is this priceless? The man on numerous occasions has pointed out he isnt anti semtic but anti zionisim. He doesnt hate jews and the fact his family were practising jews before lays further to waste the argument he is anti semtic.
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Post by NYR on Oct 13, 2009 11:33:52 GMT -5
anybody who holds a conference debating whether the holocaust really happened or not (and inviting neo-nazis to speak there) is an anti-semitic piece of dogshit. mahmoud ahmadinejad is exactly that.
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Post by puretone on Oct 13, 2009 12:43:34 GMT -5
No it was a general debate about the holocaust challengeing some ''facts'' and the taboo of if you don't accept every last bit of what your told then your a nazi and evil. Everyone knows the holocaust happened and mahmoud ahmadinejad has never said it didnt happen.
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Post by NYR on Oct 13, 2009 15:04:14 GMT -5
a general debate with some of the most vehement racists in the world, huh? where was the so-called "opposing" view? quit while you're ahead.
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Post by matt on Oct 14, 2009 12:49:29 GMT -5
How is this priceless? The man on numerous occasions has pointed out he isnt anti semtic but anti zionisim. He doesnt hate jews and the fact his family were practising jews before lays further to waste the argument he is anti semtic. Don't defend him for chrissake.
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digsyssupper
Oasis Roadie
"Manchester's got everything except a beach." - Ian Brown
Posts: 245
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Post by digsyssupper on Oct 16, 2009 11:45:10 GMT -5
End of the day the worlds fucked up, why do we kill each other over religion, you live work and die simple were the same.
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Post by Liffonmelsmork on Oct 16, 2009 12:03:21 GMT -5
I don't think we are all the same. You believe in freedom, equality and peace, or you believe in an invisible man in the sky who demands you slaughter everyone who doesn't think he's real. There's no middle ground. You're sane or you're mental.
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digsyssupper
Oasis Roadie
"Manchester's got everything except a beach." - Ian Brown
Posts: 245
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Post by digsyssupper on Oct 16, 2009 12:11:41 GMT -5
And the sheer difference is out standing. theirs no better way to put it than the way you just did.
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Post by NYR on Oct 16, 2009 16:07:14 GMT -5
i don't think the problem is religion itself; it's people using and manipulating people through religion.
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Post by Liffonmelsmork on Oct 16, 2009 17:05:21 GMT -5
i don't think the problem is religion itself; it's people using and manipulating people through religion. Religion was invented to manipulate and control people, to stop them asking questions and just shut up and accept that this is how things are, this is how you should live and if you don't do as we say - er, I mean, if you don't do as God X says, you will be tortured for eternity. It's the 21st century. There's no need for stone age superstition any more. In England, if you share this belief that religion is dangerous, you are considered a racist - but we're all one race. It's about time we started acting like it and loved one another.
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Post by NYR on Oct 16, 2009 18:36:21 GMT -5
i honestly don't know if there's a god or not. it can't be proven nor disproven. so why not just be as good a person as you can be while you're here?
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Post by Liffonmelsmork on Oct 16, 2009 18:38:35 GMT -5
it can't be proven nor disproven. so why not just be as good a person as you can be while you're here? My thoughts exactly.
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Post by NYR on Oct 16, 2009 21:19:22 GMT -5
if people were more like that, there'd be a lot less dead. and the new york skyline... that goes without saying.
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Post by bathqueen on Oct 17, 2009 15:36:48 GMT -5
Its becuase of jews like him the Holocaust happend!
I kill me.
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Post by halftheworld on Oct 17, 2009 20:11:24 GMT -5
Religion was invented to manipulate and control people, to stop them asking questions and just shut up and accept that this is how things are, this is how you should live and if you don't do as we say - er, I mean, if you don't do as God X says, you will be tortured for eternity. i think this is just a bit to easy... if not completely wrong.
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Post by bathqueen on Oct 18, 2009 10:42:11 GMT -5
Religion was invented to manipulate and control people, to stop them asking questions and just shut up and accept that this is how things are, this is how you should live and if you don't do as we say - er, I mean, if you don't do as God X says, you will be tortured for eternity. i think this is just a bit to easy... if not completely wrong. Well, why is that then?
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Post by halftheworld on Oct 18, 2009 14:11:45 GMT -5
i think this is just a bit to easy... if not completely wrong. Well, why is that then? let's start with early polytheistic religions. people had gods for thunder, rain, sun, war and so on and on. these gods were not invented to control people, they were invented because people couldn't explain certain phenomenoms. and those gods were somewhat results of the hope that things can be controled, not by mankind but by a transcendental power. and people hoped they could please those gods by whatever. so one could say that gods were invented not to control or even manipulate people but people hoped to gain control of their environment. gods were invented because people hoped they were not as helpless as they felt. and then there was the start of the monotheistic religions - that started in egypt, i think with echnaton. in egypt, religion was already some sort of politics. part of the religion was to legitimatise the power of the pharao - the power of the government, if you will. i think it was somenthing very similar to the developement of the monarchy in the middle age where the kings understood themselves as appointed by god. but this didn't start with the idea of manipulating people. i think it was rather due to the fact that people had a different understanding of how a society should be legitimated. god was the highest authority they knew. same with the modern montheistic religions. i think we all agree that muslims, jews and christians believe in the same god. it is just a different philosophy that's behind these different religions. all of the rules in those systems have a reason that has it's routes in the history and peoples way of life. so again, religion was not invented to manipulate people. god was just the highest authority and the prophet is somewhat the philosopher with the idea of how a society has to work. and of course people were not following him immediately! look at christianity: it was pretty much a sect when it started, but it was a group of people who agreed on certain values. and jesus certainly didn't try to convince people by telling them they'll go straight to hell if they don't follow his rules (isn't this a major difference between the old and the new testament, that god is much less "vengeful"-got to be careful here...-?) he - like every prophet - offered them his ideas and people followed. later of course, with more and more followers (and this is the same within every religion), people used the authority of spiritual leaders to make politics, but it was certainly not INVENTED to manipulate or control people to secure the power of anybody or to keep people from thinking. in fact, the opposite is true: the prophets started their movements to change the fact that religion was used for politics and to attack the hierarchical influence of the established instances. today, in the western world, we have a different understanding of state authority. since people like immanuel kant and the success of democracy, people tend towards the idea that people decide themselves, what rules to follow within a society and that religion should be seperated from governmental decisions. that makes religion less important, some even think religion is obsolete and we just see the negative impacts of a religion based philosophy and how odd some things seem in our enlightened, scientific world. but if you think of the early days of religions: people also decided themselves to follow those philosophies! prophets just couldn't force them cause the etsablished system didn't provide them with any power to influence people - and the invention of a god certainly wouldn't have changed that. so to make it short: i think it is wrong to claim that religion was invented to control people.
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Post by Liffonmelsmork on Oct 18, 2009 15:04:08 GMT -5
so to make it short: i think it is wrong to claim that religion was invented to control people. Right, I'll amend my statement. Religion was invented to explain what couldn't be explained by primitive man, and eventually grew to become a way to oppress, divide and control people. people had gods for thunder, rain, sun, war and so on and on. these gods were not invented to control people, they were invented because people couldn't explain certain phenomenoms. Agreed on this point. It comes down to us as humans just naturally wanting to know about how things work. Although in this case, they didn’t have the technology to figure stuff out, so they made shit up. look at christianity: it was pretty much a sect when it started, but it was a group of people who agreed on certain values. Yeah. I’d agree with Christianity’s values too, if someone had a massive fuck-off sword pressed against my neck. jesus certainly didn't try to convince people by telling them they'll go straight to hell if they don't follow his rules I don't even know where to start with this. There's no mention of Hell in the Bible until Jesus comes along. God was too busy being a bastard and killing everyone in the Old Testament to bother mentioning it. it was certainly not INVENTED to manipulate or control people to secure the power of anybody or to keep people from thinking. The Bible permits slavery and it instructs slaves to obey their Earthly masters. It’s very clear about what is right and wrong. Interestingly, there is very little that is right. And if you’re a woman, you’re pretty much worthless in the eyes of the all-loving, all-forgiving god of the Bible. I don't know much about the Qur'an but I'd bet it's just as bad. So to make it short - I'll agree that the very beginnings of religions came about to explain what nobody could understand. But surely you'd agree that mankind as a whole is better off without this rubbish?
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