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Post by AdidasNG72 on Jan 30, 2016 9:56:40 GMT -5
I don't understand why people don't want a re-edited version with the remaster. The original will still be there for you. You can have either one of these two situations: A) The original only B) The original and a re-edit Seems simple to me. A watered down, edited down BHN would be totally pointless. It would be like going to a party and drinking non-alcoholic beer all night.
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Jan 30, 2016 9:48:04 GMT -5
Oasis went from being the biggest and most important band in the world to sounding outdated and irrelevant within a month! It's was such a bizarre time. Oasis as well as imploding, were put in an impossible situation with Be Here Now. If they'd done MG mk2 they'd have been criticised for standing still. If they'd fully experimented they'd have been criticised for alienating fans. Therefore Noel thought bigger and heavier was the way to go. Sticking with the classic Oasis formula but expanding on it. For which they were criticised for Be Here Now has its flaws and I'm not saying it's perfect but there was literally nothing they could have put out in the summer of 97 which could have fully worked Exactly! Nothing could possibly have matched the expectations at that time, whatever Oasis released. Even some of the infamous B side gems like The Masterplan wouldn't have done much to change public opinion on Oasis at that time, had songs like this been put on BHN. And then throw in the fact that the mood of an entire nation changed overnight, and you can see why Oasis and the dizzy highs of Britpop was over. Yet I still stand by my opinion that BHN was a better album than both DM and WTS. Those first 3 albums progressed with each release, and after BHN there was nowhere to go but down. Oasis MKII ended up doing the opposite to Oasis MKI, in that each album got progressively worse. SOTSOG is the best of a bad bunch, ending with the horror that is DOYS. Nothing will ever beat BHN.
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Jan 30, 2016 2:13:42 GMT -5
For all its faults, BHN is still part of the original Oasis MK1 set-up, including songs that Noel had written many years earlier, and is still the best album they ever did.
Had Princess Di not passed away, and the UK Britpop scene continued partying for another 6 months, BHN would probably be remembered in a similar light to DM and WTS.
Just take one look at all the reviews at the time, and BHN was getting 5 stars, 10/10. Everyone bought into it at the time, but then quickly dismissed its celebratory vibe once the mood of the nation changed overnight.
BHN then felt like the drunken, loud, inappropriate guest at a funeral wake.
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Jan 30, 2016 0:48:09 GMT -5
So the general consensus looking through this thread, is that the majority here feel the biggest mistake was around 1999/2000 when Oasis MK1 ended, and Oasis MK2 began.
It stands to reason, when you look at the phenomenon created during the first 3 albums, and how much they sold, compared to what happened from SOTSOG through to DOYS.
Key mistakes - losing key members, Creation, Owen Morris, Brian Cannon, and Noel losing his drug addiction and becoming a shadow of his former self, no longer able to write the swaggering, blistering, loud, epic, uplifting, soaring, occasional orchestral, and always melodic tunes that he was able to write under the influence of heavy drugs and alcohol.
It was inevitable that this would happen. No band like Oasis could maintain what they achieved between 94 and 97. It was always going to burn out in the end. If Noel had carried on down the path he was going, he probably wouldn't still be alive today.
Noel's solo career is actually far better than Oasis MK2, in my opinion. Expectations are different.
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Jan 29, 2016 12:08:38 GMT -5
Becoming shells of themselves post 2000. I mainly am directing this at Noel. He shied away from what made Oasis great. Pub anthems and swagger. This.
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Jan 28, 2016 23:31:05 GMT -5
They should have gone away at the end of 1996. Tried to get to the end of the tour (Have no idea and have never seen the projected Morning Glory Tour Dates that were cancelled). They should have finished up and hibernated. They would and should have had two full years off after the tour and gone into the studio in early 1999 to start work on the final part of the Oasis trilogy 'Standing on the Shoulder of Giants'. In May 1999, The band release and promote the first single in 3 years 'Go Let It Out' hugely playing on late night shows in the US. The band would do a full North American tour of arenas including Madison Square Garden before the albums release like Canada in 2008. 'STANDING ON THE SHOULDER OF GIANTS' 1999 1-Fucking in the Bushes 2-Go Let It Out 3-Who Feels Love? 4-Angel Child (Full Studio Recording) 5-Fade In/Out (Less Rock/More Psychedelic/Bongos and shit) 6-Lock All The Doors (A bit of everything we've heard, with Liam on Vox) 7-Gas Panic! 8-Let's All Make Believe 9-D'you Know What I Mean? (Stripped, less layers, more like Gas Panic) 10-Stand By Me (Stripped, less layers, more acoustic vibes) Critical acclaim, the tour ends in August 2000 with the original 4 of Noel, Liam, Bonehead and Guigs blowing 300,000 people away at Hyde Park and the band split up. One of the great trilogies of Guitar Music and looked back on as one of the greatest bands of all time. Thats how it should have happened. Not too keen on your choice of songs there. Going by what you have done (best of BHN and SOTSOG), I'd opt for - 1. Fucking in the Bushes 2. Go Let It Out 3. Going Nowhere 4. Revolution Song 5. Stay Young 6. Gas Panic 7. Don't Go Away 8. The Fame 9. Let's All Make Believe 10. I Got The Fever 11. All Around the World
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Jan 28, 2016 15:09:10 GMT -5
I think the big mistake was the constant pilfering of chord sequences, melody lines and phrases from other people's songs. There seemed to be at least 4 or 5 Beatles phrases on every album. If Pulp or some- one tossed Stones phrases into song after song you'd think it's pretty weak. 20 years later and they're still doing it too. It's gonna wreck their legacy in the long run. Zeppelin's legacy has somehow survived ripping off idea after idea but Oasis's won't. That and those old man track suits they wore on stage a few times in the 90's. They went straight past "dad rock" to "grandfather rock" with those. Do you mean the likes of Liam's Umbro top? I always thought Oasis looked far cooler in this kind of gear, than what they wore post 2000.
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Jan 28, 2016 12:20:52 GMT -5
The problem with SOTSOG is that it isn't somber enough. The more "madferit" songs like GLIO and PYMWYMI don't sit well with darker songs like WDIAGW, SMC, and Roll It Over. It wasn't a case of not sitting well, but more a case of the `madferit' songs just not being good enough. Noel obviously didn't have it in him any more to write these kinds of tunes. BHN must have drained the last of his talent for writing brilliant upbeat numbers. Having said that, I do like Go Let it Out, but ICSAL and PYMWYMI are 2 of the worst songs he has ever written, on par with the worst songs on DOYS.
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Jan 28, 2016 11:37:14 GMT -5
They should've put the best songs on their albums, regardless of their atmosphere. I'd rather have an album full of slow and sad, but very good songs, than an album with awful upbeat dadrock shite. And we got neither, from 2000 onwards...
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Jan 28, 2016 11:09:06 GMT -5
The dark, sombre atmosphere is the best thing about SOTSOG and it should have continued for a few more albums at least. It did....which is why Oasis MK II is such a disaster.
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Jan 28, 2016 10:58:09 GMT -5
What's wrong with it being a bit sombre? The issue it got slated wasn't the fact that it was dark it was because some of the songs weren't up to scratch. Britain loved dreary rock at the time, Travis, Coldplay etc and SOTSOG should have pissed all over them. What are the Noel songs which get criticised the most on that album? PYMWYMI and ICASL. Like you say the one's where he tried to be a bit rockier. If Noel hadn't buckled under the pressure of not releasing an album with an unbeat tempo the album would have been much the better for it. I guess we all look for different things from Oasis. I look for feeling sky high, mad for it, ready to take the world on - which is what the first 3 albums encapsulated. Don't get me wrong, I like the occasional downbeat Noel acoustic too, but not a whole album of it.
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Jan 28, 2016 9:33:56 GMT -5
I cannot agree with the post above which says their wasn't much material about in the SOTSOG era. This is not an attempt to start alternative SOTSOG tracklisting pt 200 but we know Noel had the below written at various stages of completion Fuckin in the bushes Go Let It Out Who Feels Love? PYMWYMI Gas Panic! WDIAGW Sunday Morning Call I Can See A Liar Roll It Over Let's All Make Believe As Long As They've Got Cigarettes in Hell One Way Road Carry Us All Full On Little By Little It's A Crime Revolution Song Force of Nature Just Getting Older The 10 or 11 best of those, twinned with the excellent production would make a truly phenomenal 10/10 classic album. The problem is they picked the wrong songs or just didn't finish them in time. As an earlier poster wrote SOTSOG should have been the great return. A new Oasis for a new millennium and they nearly got it right but there we too many mediocre songs to make it really work. They needed a 10/10 album not another 7/10 If Noel had taken maybe another 6 months to finish what they had and also not been so stupid with his decisions, Oasis' history in the early part of this century would look very different. Then in turn HC wouldn't have been rushed out because Noel would have been content, instead of trying to grasp at former glory's. BHN was also retrospectively a mistake but it needed to happen, it was inevitable. SOTSOG was totally avoidable. I love both BHN and SOTSOG though No one is saying there wasn't much material at that time. There was plenty, but looking at your list of songs from that period, the majority of them are dreary to say the least, stopping short of making you want to slash your wrists on listening to them. Fuckin in the Bushes and Go Let It Out are the only upbeat Oasis tracks. ICSAL and PYMWYMI being the only other 2 heavier tracks which are utter garbage. Oasis was always about celebrating the good times. That is what made the first 3 albums and B sides great. Oasis in a dark, retrospective mood is not what the band were about, and the songs from this period, as good as some of them are, are way too depressing. One or two are fine, but a whole album of them? Give me BHN any day...
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Jan 28, 2016 0:16:23 GMT -5
In all honesty I believe the band fundamentally changed for the complete worst once bonehead and guigs left. Tony started the ball rolling on that one but ultimately it was Noel's fault. The spark that was there between those 5 lads vanished and that was reflected in the music. Look how dark SOTSOG and HC are compared to BHN. I'm not saying if bonehead and guigs had stayed everything would have been perfect but IMHO Andy and Gem were just not right for the band (sorry to say that as I love RIDE & Hurricane #1). The band lost their edge at that point which ultimately led to everyone getting more and more fed up until 2009 happened. Liam's voice issues didn't help but to me this 1999-2000 changeover was a critical point that sowed the seeds ultimately for what happened in Paris in 2009. I agree 100% with this. For all the slating BHN got, to me the album is fine as it is. Had a couple of decent B sides replaced a couple of the duff tracks on the album, I still don't think the album would have been any better received. Britpop was over after Di's death, and for all the upbeat tracks from the BHN era (B sides included) it wouldn't have saved them. The sound of BHN suddenly belonged to a different era of excess partying, Britpop, Euro 96 and Knebworth. BHN was released 6 months too late. The unexpected changing mood at the time happened overnight, and BHN didn't reflect it. The UK were then looking for more down beat stuff, and the shelf life of guitar rock bands was suddenly on the decline. So BHN couldn't have improved Oasis popularity any further in the UK. In the US maybe, had a few other tracks been selected as singles, but I doubt it. No, Oasis biggest mistake was the turning point of SOTSOG. Noel was a shadow of his former self, losing the will to write any more upbeat tracks, and suffering the worst hangover from Britpop than anyone else at the time. But more crucially, losing key members, Creation, Owen Morris, even Brian Cannon and his iconic album sleeves and logo. The band lost its identity with that album, and never recovered.
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Jan 28, 2016 0:07:47 GMT -5
Have to agree with those saying it was bad choices which took their toll. Noel was in a bit of a rut when it came to Be Here Now but you can still put together a decent album from the songs from that era. And of course, the longer ones needed editing down. Something like this would almost certainly have enabled them to retain most of their fanbase and avoid the backlash: My Big Mouth D'You Know What I Mean? Stand By Me Stay Young Going Nowhere I Hope, I Think, I Know Don't Go Away Flashbax Be Here Now The Fame All Around The World Same for SOTSOG. Noel didn't have huge amounts of material kicking around but certainly there were 10 songs from that period that would have constituted a far superior album to the one he put out: F*ckin in the Bushes Go Let It Out Carnation Revolution Song Gas Panic Carry Us All Who Feels Love Let's All Make Believe Where Did It All Go Wrong? Roll It Over Carnation isn't an Oasis song, is it?
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Jan 22, 2016 12:10:07 GMT -5
Owen Morris is to Oasis what George Martin was to The Beatles.
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Jan 21, 2016 15:02:39 GMT -5
I didn't think it was that bad regarding negativity. There were still many positives about the album from various critics, and as for the slagging off that Wonderwall gets, I think it is justified. I don't like that song either.
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Jan 21, 2016 13:11:33 GMT -5
Definitely Maybe's brickwalling was the least bit crappy and worked fine. Most of the tracks on the original release aren't too loud and are still dynamically intact (for the most part, aside from RnRS, Columbia, C&A and Slide Away). On WTSMG, he destroyed that record. Some Might Say sounds like a slab of guitar tracks with a strangely mixed drum track, and you CANNOT hear Guigsy. Morning Glory's guitar wall is so loud Whitey's drumming is nearly non existent. On Be Here Now the mixes were already too loud and because he didn't master it, Sony used their industry best dynamic crusher to completely clip the record. BHN needs a proper FAN remaster because they know with Morris supervising it, it'll turn out just as bad as DM and WTSMG's - still a brickwalled mess. Release the multitracks! Funny enough, out of the 3 records, the sound of DM is my least favourite. WTS and BHN is where its at for me. That is the definitive Oasis sound. Some Might Say is my favourite Oasis song, and I wouldn't change anything regarding its recording.
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Jan 21, 2016 12:54:53 GMT -5
"Oh look at this beautiful fresh mix. Full of dynamics and great for headphone listening!" "GET OFF YER ARSE MATE THIS IS AN OWEN MORRIS PRODUCTION"
What else would you expect from an Oasis record. If you want something softer, choose another band.
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Jan 21, 2016 12:31:42 GMT -5
why didnt owen produce the albums after BHN? did he not want to do it anymore or did Noel want to try a different sound? Noel said they tried and tried to get back to the greatest of those first 3 albums but never tried bringing owen back? Not sure why. Did they fall out? I know Owen came back for the Masterplan and Stop the Clocks, and also the DM and WTS reissues. You would have thought Noel would have used him every now and again on 1 or 2 of his songs. Like I said, Lock all the Doors was crying out for that definitive Oasis sound that only Owen could produce. Maybe Noel, in his infinite wisdom on his pathetic BHN hating crusade, wanted to distance himself from anything to do with that album, including Owen himself.
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Jan 21, 2016 12:20:39 GMT -5
Owen Morris is a legend. The definitive Oasis sound is on all of those first 3 albums. After that, for most part the production has sounded shit.
Owen gave it that upbeat tempo which is severely lacking on any attempt at an upbeat tune since. Lock All The Doors for example is desperately in need of an Owen mix.
SOTSOG - production sounds watery, timid, weak for most part. HC - the worst of the lot. DBTT - I don't particularly like the sounds on here, and the weak songs themselves don't help either DOYS - I hate this album anyway, but other than the 3 singles released, the rest of the album sounds garbage.
And anyone knocking what Owen did on BHN can fuck right off. I love the fact that he and Noel had the balls to throw the kitchen sink at this album, and keep it lengthy, epic, sprawling. Its still the best album Oasis ever did, and one of the best albums of all time.
The critics at the time, who mostly gave it 5 stars were right back then. It is a 5 star album. Q magazine couldn't praise it highly enough. Neither could NME. They got it spot on!
They just bottled in when Britpop was over and Oasis lost their popularity, and jumped on the same negative bandwagon as everyone else in doing a massive U turn to slag BHN off.
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Dec 13, 2015 3:00:54 GMT -5
They are both bad albums, easily the worst 2 Oasis ever did, but if I had to choose, it would probably be DOYS, only because the 3 singles released are better than any of the songs on DBTT.
However, there are also some appallingly bad songs on DOYS too, far worse than the songs on DBTT, so its a difficult one.
DOYS - 3 decent songs among utter garbage DBTT - poor songs overall, but better than the worst songs on DOYS
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Dec 7, 2015 0:43:54 GMT -5
Step 1. I don't listen to Heathen Chemistry Step 2. Repeat Step 1 infinitely, and Smile. Likewise with DBTT and DOYS....
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Dec 6, 2015 22:51:11 GMT -5
how can anyone get depressed to this? something about 0:37 when that guitar kicks in, just makes me feel amazing. "your my sunshine, your my rain" lovely jubbly. Great song. Listening to that again is a reminder that the 3 singles released from this album are far better that the singles that were released from any of the albums that followed, regardless of the rest of the songs from HC. DBTT and DOYS are really shit albums, compared to HC.
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Dec 6, 2015 22:35:32 GMT -5
Be Here Now is the best there was, the best there is, and the best there ever will be.
No other album will ever top this, and no other band will either, because the music industry today will never create another phenomenon like Oasis peaked in 1996 - 1997, and no other band will ever have that carried away self belief to make a crazy, OTT album like BHN ever again.
Truly one of its kind, and the only band that could release an album like this at that time. Before then you have to go all the way back to 60's with The Beatles at their peak (Revolver/Sgt Pepper).
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Dec 6, 2015 22:29:17 GMT -5
Utter, utter shite.....and a reminder again of how bad that last album really was.
Pure garbage!!
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