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Post by yeahyeahyeahyeah on Aug 15, 2022 5:12:53 GMT -5
The argument that a dislike of hip-hop equates to disregarding music made by non-white artists is such a reductionist, baseless notion that I can't help thinking people who use it are being deliberately obtuse for the sake of blocking the conversation. Even though lists like these are fairly redundant... Otis Redding, Sly and the Family Stone, Jimi Hendrix, Tina Turner, Aretha Franklin, (all of the great Motown in fact), Little Richard, Miles Davis, Billy Cobham, Herbie Hancock... are merely a few examples of great musicians who were from black or mixed race backgrounds. To avoid listening to these artists on basis of race would not merely be xenophobic or racist, you would have to be musically illiterate. Dislike of hip-hop, however, can be for many other reasons. My main personal reasons are the lack of any real melodic content and the fact that it now occupies so much of the general musical landscape that there is very little space left for other types of music, at least in the mainstream. lots of fair points - i am poking fun at oasis fans in general with that comment too though because the stereotypical oasis fan kind of listens to the same ol' stuff made by the british descent white man. buuuuuuuuut i think it's also totally fair to point out that a general aversion for hip hop and rap music was instilled in many white people subconsciously because of its association with black culture, anti white supremacy establishment, race tension, and speaking out against police brutality. for an absolutely obvious example, NWA. some of the roots of this genre make people uncomfortable, whether they realize that on a conscious level or not, because that's passed down generationally. and mainstream music i would argue has extremely little to do with classic hip hop.
your argument is simply, purely, ignorantly racist.
'british descent white man'
'many white people'
I truly hate it when American guilt about dreadful racist societal issues are cast at other countries that are, and always have been, far more accepting and adapting to people of other cultures, creeds and nationalities.
maybe it's because race is such a dominant issue in the States, due to having been essentially an apartheid state as late as the 60's in many places, but in the UK most working class people (white, black or whatever) would have agreed with pretty much everything NWA were saying.
I take it you include the Gallaghers, Beatles, Clash, etc etc etc etc in your stupidly crass 'british descent white man' grouping?
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Post by yeahyeahyeahyeah on Aug 15, 2022 5:28:38 GMT -5
agree.
early 80s rap and hip hop was the latest (at the time) incarnation of the rock'n'roll spirit. the clash (mick jones really) understood right away.
however, i think the poster above was trying to say that disliking hip hop, or any style of music really, certainly shouldn't be seen in, er, black and white terms. not liking a certain music doesn't mean there's a racist element, which is what that other pathetic comment was suggesting.
Totally get defending against charges of racism. Except then he hanged himself by denying hip-hop a place in history. If you just say, “yeah I love Jimi, but just can’t listen to Jay-Z, so sue me," that’s enough, no?
What you personally like and what is culturally relevant don’t always meet. Plenty of stuff you couldn’t pay me to put on my stereo that burns up the charts and fuels teenage dreams. My only beef is with those who deny or belittle people’s accomplishments. Whatever the motivation, there’s not really a great one for that.
To change the conversation a bit, there are actually some deeper links between Oasis and some hip-hop bands than some might think. There’s a reason Liam tweeted to say how moved he was by the Wu Tang Clan documentary (Of Mics and Men) that shows how they came up poor and fame (and money) hit them so hard and fast. It’s not that long a path from Staten Island to Burnage, even the athletic wear is a link—very different musical influences but the stories align in intriguing ways.
yeah, the story of american black music in general resonates here in the UK through class.
Of course there are arguments that Lennon, Strummer etc were more middle class, but the fact is that football and music were the two escape routes for working class kids from the 60s to the late 90s.
Sadly UK music is now the preserve of the middle classes who go to 'music schools/colleges' to learn about having a 'career'. It's partly the reason (I think) that music here is now more than ever before, to use a word with many connotations but I think quite applicable, 'segregated'.
The first Motown song ever played on British radio? A cover by The Beatles on their first radio session broadcast. The music early mods danced to? Ska and early jamacian dancehall. The music punks listened to? Reggae. The music that fueled UK pirate radio and clubs in the 80s? Funk. The music that created the Hacienda club culture that spawned Oasis and the Roses? Chicago House
The music that generated the 90s 'big beat' explosion? Rap, hiphop and the same sources they plundered.
All scenes mostly frequented by what the other poster called 'white descent british male' punters, or some such insult, but also largely also being a relaxed, mixed crowd where racial tension never reared an ugly head.
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Post by The Escapist on Aug 15, 2022 6:26:15 GMT -5
Turning this thread into some appreciation for a living legend - my top five Preemo beats ever!
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Post by matt on Aug 15, 2022 6:42:45 GMT -5
He probably needed to make remixes like these for that businessman's 50th birthday party. Imagine heavy guitars on event like that 😐 He probably sang Some Might say over funky beat and Cigarettes and Alcohol over lounge music instrumental. Tory businessmen do not listen to the music you're talking about. It's all Mumford & Sons and all that shite.
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Post by matt on Aug 15, 2022 6:45:05 GMT -5
Please tell me people on here aren't questioning the legacy of DJ fucking Premier lol Let's remember this thread is an alternate reality with folk who think The Beat Goes On is a masterpiece. And if you're talking about legacies of a DJ, well DJ Premier can do one as nobody can top DJ Darren Knowles from Essex who hosted a Kasabian aftershow party on behalf of Tom Meighan sometime back in 2011. He played not one, but two turntables over Club Foot!!
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Post by girllikeabomb on Aug 15, 2022 16:40:20 GMT -5
Sadly UK music is now the preserve of the middle classes who go to 'music schools/colleges' to learn about having a 'career'. It's partly the reason (I think) that music here is now more than ever before, to use a word with many connotations but I think quite applicable, 'segregated'.
The first Motown song ever played on British radio? A cover by The Beatles on their first radio session broadcast. The music early mods danced to? Ska and early jamacian dancehall. The music punks listened to? Reggae. The music that fueled UK pirate radio and clubs in the 80s? Funk. The music that created the Hacienda club culture that spawned Oasis and the Roses? Chicago House
The music that generated the 90s 'big beat' explosion? Rap, hiphop and the same sources they plundered.
All scenes mostly frequented by what the other poster called 'white descent british male' punters, or some such insult, but also largely also being a relaxed, mixed crowd where racial tension never reared an ugly head.
Yeah, it's sadly true in all the arts now--film, music, books, every form of fine art, even journalism--that they are mostly only realistically pursued by the upper classes with occasional exceptions. That's in part because digitization means there is far less money at the bottom and much more sequestered at the top. A&R has turned into "trend research" rather than the art of finding hungry young bands club-by-club so the bands mostly remain hungry and have to get jobs. And if you scratch at many acts that are succeeding right now, even some that look gritty on the surface, you'll find they are the children of entertainment executives and the like. Which is a tragedy that means amazing voices are being lost.
I don't know how or when this changes but I think it will eventually -- but it may be that new voices come through in something other than music or books, that there's a new form that isn't yet as corporately controlled (but something not as frothy as Tik-Tok either, which is just a brain disease as far as I can tell ...)
There's a very mixed history of rock and race, of course. Lots of thievery and exploitation as well as lots of collaboration and respect. Music had a massive, positive influence on civil rights in both the US and UK but at the same time, I wouldn't say it's quite as rose-colored as racial tension never rearing its head. Rock Against Racism formed for a reason, and it wasn't that things were all that relaxed in the late 70s!
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Post by Derrick on Aug 15, 2022 16:48:01 GMT -5
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Post by yeahyeahyeahyeah on Aug 15, 2022 18:45:45 GMT -5
Sadly UK music is now the preserve of the middle classes who go to 'music schools/colleges' to learn about having a 'career'. It's partly the reason (I think) that music here is now more than ever before, to use a word with many connotations but I think quite applicable, 'segregated'.
The first Motown song ever played on British radio? A cover by The Beatles on their first radio session broadcast. The music early mods danced to? Ska and early jamacian dancehall. The music punks listened to? Reggae. The music that fueled UK pirate radio and clubs in the 80s? Funk. The music that created the Hacienda club culture that spawned Oasis and the Roses? Chicago House
The music that generated the 90s 'big beat' explosion? Rap, hiphop and the same sources they plundered.
All scenes mostly frequented by what the other poster called 'white descent british male' punters, or some such insult, but also largely also being a relaxed, mixed crowd where racial tension never reared an ugly head.
Yeah, it's sadly true in all the arts now--film, music, books, every form of fine art, even journalism--that they are mostly only realistically pursued by the upper classes with occasional exceptions. That's in part because digitization means there is far less money at the bottom and much more sequestered at the top. A&R has turned into "trend research" rather than the art of finding hungry young bands club-by-club so the bands mostly remain hungry and have to get jobs. And if you scratch at many acts that are succeeding right now, even some that look gritty on the surface, you'll find they are the children of entertainment executives and the like. Which is a tragedy that means amazing voices are being lost.
I don't know how or when this changes but I think it will eventually -- but it may be that new voices come through in something other than music or books, that there's a new form that isn't yet as corporately controlled (but something not as frothy as Tik-Tok either, which is just a brain disease as far as I can tell ...)
There's a very mixed history of rock and race, of course. Lots of thievery and exploitation as well as lots of collaboration and respect. Music had a massive, positive influence on civil rights in both the US and UK but at the same time, I wouldn't say it's quite as rose-colored as racial tension never rearing its head. Rock Against Racism formed for a reason, and it wasn't that things were all that relaxed in the late 70s!
Again agree.
but RAR was a reaction to racism in society/politics which used music because it was essentially an anti-racist 'space'. there a great book by daniel rachel which is well worth a read for anyone who wants to know more about the time - it' a kind of 'oral history' by people who were there as opposed to someone putting their spin on it years later
My observation was based on never seeing racism at gigs or clubs, at any level, in the UK. seriously. Pubs, other non-musical places yes, incidents for sure. but not at music based things/crowds/people, across a wide spectrum of styles of music.
I don't think 'working class' kids in the UK will ever see music as important enough to be their outlet/escape route ever again, and I don't think it's because of money. Although of course the idea of getting rich (and famous) has always been a draw, seriously no one I've ever known, who got success or not at any level, went into it 'for the money' or as a 'career'.
I've absolutely no idea how the spirit of rock'n'roll will artisically incarnate next, but sadly I really don't believe it will be though music.
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Post by girllikeabomb on Aug 16, 2022 1:41:10 GMT -5
but RAR was a reaction to racism in society/politics which used music because it was essentially an anti-racist 'space'. there a great book by daniel rachel which is well worth a read for anyone who wants to know more about the time - it' a kind of 'oral history' by people who were there as opposed to someone putting their spin on it years later
I've absolutely no idea how the spirit of rock'n'roll will artisically incarnate next, but sadly I really don't believe it will be though music.
Looks like a great book -- thanks for the recommendation!
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Post by fabulousbakers on Aug 16, 2022 4:33:35 GMT -5
Turning this thread into some appreciation for a living legend - my top five Preemo beats ever! Why have you posted five versions of the same song?
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Post by thomaslivesforever on Aug 16, 2022 5:23:23 GMT -5
Turning this thread into some appreciation for a living legend - my top five Preemo beats ever! Why have you posted five versions of the same song? Eh?
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Post by The Escapist on Aug 16, 2022 6:01:09 GMT -5
Turning this thread into some appreciation for a living legend - my top five Preemo beats ever! Why have you posted five versions of the same song? I'm just replying to this so that the stupidity of the comment will survive even if you decide to delete it lol
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Aug 16, 2022 14:09:44 GMT -5
Let us not forget legends like Nina whose musical contribution helped mold generations and genres, both within rock and hip-hop.
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Post by Jim on Aug 20, 2022 12:01:39 GMT -5
Bootleg remix of Wave if anyone wants to hear it.
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Post by Jessica on Aug 20, 2022 12:39:22 GMT -5
Wave was the other one that I thought could have some good remixes. Really like that.
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Post by yeahyeahyeahyeah on Aug 20, 2022 18:30:23 GMT -5
Bootleg remix of Wave if anyone wants to hear it. not into that one at all
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Post by GlastoEls on Aug 22, 2022 17:49:42 GMT -5
Bootleg remix of Wave if anyone wants to hear it. Love this!
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Post by schorman on Aug 25, 2022 10:43:06 GMT -5
Turning this thread into some appreciation for a living legend - my top five Preemo beats ever! Mathematics is my jam.
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Post by tiger40 on Aug 25, 2022 12:28:00 GMT -5
I still haven't listened to the Dimond In The Dark remix again and I don't intend to.
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Post by jeffrey on Aug 25, 2022 13:24:37 GMT -5
I still haven't listened to the Dimond In The Dark remix again and I don't intend to. Is there a reason why? You seem to only listen to Gallagher-related music and it’s still got Liam’s voice on it…
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Post by tiger40 on Aug 25, 2022 17:58:45 GMT -5
I still haven't listened to the Dimond In The Dark remix again and I don't intend to. Is there a reason why? You seem to only listen to Gallagher-related music and it’s still got Liam’s voice on it… It doesn't matter if Liam's voice is still on this remix as I think it's shit to be honest. And, for the record I don't only listen to Gallagher related music.
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Post by jeffrey on Aug 26, 2022 5:23:47 GMT -5
Is there a reason why? You seem to only listen to Gallagher-related music and it’s still got Liam’s voice on it… It doesn't matter if Liam's voice is still on this remix as I think it's shit to be honest. And, for the record I don't only listen to Gallagher related music. How can you think something is shit without ever hearing it? And as far as what music you do or don’t listen to, I was just going by your posts in other sections of the forum.
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Post by yeahyeahyeahyeah on Aug 26, 2022 6:55:06 GMT -5
It doesn't matter if Liam's voice is still on this remix as I think it's shit to be honest. And, for the record I don't only listen to Gallagher related music. How can you think something is shit without ever hearing it? And as far as what music you do or don’t listen to, I was just going by your posts in other sections of the forum. exactly, says no intention of listening, then that it's shit, and in other sections only mentions liam/oasis.
It's an oasis forum, so it's cool some might listen to gallagher related stuff more than other things. but part of it (for me anyway) is also the chance to pick up on something someone else likes and, as they like oasis related stuff, I might like it too.
I give loads of things a listen in that way. some I like, some I don't.
But I don't know if it's shit or not until I've given it a go
I don't like the 'diamonds' remix btw, simply because it feels a bit lazy and 'off the shelf'.
lots of remixers essentially have backings and beats lying around that they cynically use for a remix commission, without really getting into it at all. It's just another job.
That's what this one is like for me.
Others can take something and turn it into something else entirely, by getting elements out of the original or adding their own unique spin on it. Remixes can be a high musical art all of their own.
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Post by The Escapist on Aug 26, 2022 8:17:26 GMT -5
One more, that "a million" gets stuck in my head more times than my skull:
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Post by tiger40 on Aug 26, 2022 12:23:33 GMT -5
It doesn't matter if Liam's voice is still on this remix as I think it's shit to be honest. And, for the record I don't only listen to Gallagher related music. How can you think something is shit without ever hearing it? And as far as what music you do or don’t listen to, I was just going by your posts in other sections of the forum. I HAVE listened to it thanks. Go back a few pages and read my comments.
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