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Post by globe on Jun 24, 2022 10:15:38 GMT -5
So Roe v Wade overturned. The land of the free.
Fucking mental.
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Post by globe on Jun 24, 2022 10:46:23 GMT -5
Just also read thon Clarence Thomas recorded in his rulings on this that same sex marriage, same-sex relationships and contraception right laws should also be reconsidered.
Trump really has taken the USA into 1940s Germany hasn't he.
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Post by jezza2 on Jun 24, 2022 11:12:45 GMT -5
On top of that, some states have trigger laws once Roe v Wade is overturned. I don’t know how many, but I’m assuming majority of red states.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Jun 24, 2022 11:32:01 GMT -5
Will Joe Biden do an executive order or leave it to the states? I'm thinking the latter, despite him claiming he'd do an executive order. I'm sure he will offer thoughts and prayers to the women affected. We will see soon I guess.
I hope I am wrong about Biden.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Jun 24, 2022 11:38:28 GMT -5
Just also read thon Clarence Thomas recorded in his rulings on this that same sex marriage, same-sex relationships and contraception right laws should also be reconsidered. Trump really has taken the USA into 1940s Germany hasn't he. This isn't just Trump. It's the Democrats too. Trump is a symptom of a failing democracy and weak Democratic leadership.
There's a reason why they call them the 'Do-Nothing Democrats'. They have had 50 years to codify Roe v Wade into law and did not do it, despite the majority of the country wanting that.
Democracy has failed. Our leadership has failed. They do not represent our interests and have not for some time now. They do the bidding of corporations and their rich donors. We have to address the poisoned system as a whole, we cannot be so naive to think it's the actions of one man. Trump is a symptom of a much greater disease that has infected both parties and moved both to the right wing side of politics.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Jun 24, 2022 11:44:11 GMT -5
Wow. FUCK JOE BIDEN.
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Post by jezza2 on Jun 24, 2022 11:49:04 GMT -5
Done some more research: 13 states have triggers law that go into affect quickly when Roe v Wade is overturned. 16 states + Washington D.C. already have laws protecting abortion. I encourage people who live in the USA and are concerned about this look at Guttmacher Institute's stats on this matter. A pro-choice organization. www.guttmacher.org/state-policy/explore/abortion-policy-absence-roe
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Jun 24, 2022 11:51:30 GMT -5
Done some more research: 13 states have triggers law that go into affect quickly when Roe v Wade is overturned. 16 states + Washington D.C. already have laws protecting abortion. I encourage people who live in the USA and are concerned about this look at Guttmacher Institute's stats on this matter. A pro-choice organization. www.guttmacher.org/state-policy/explore/abortion-policy-absence-roeBetter than nothing, sure. But it ought to be a federal right for everyone. We cannot leave any gaps! Our President has abandoned millions with his cowardice.
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Post by funhouse on Jun 24, 2022 13:41:00 GMT -5
Just another painful reminder that liberals break when confronted by fascism.
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Post by girllikeabomb on Jun 24, 2022 14:47:55 GMT -5
Will Joe Biden do an executive order or leave it to the states? I'm thinking the latter, despite him claiming he'd do an executive order. I'm sure he will offer thoughts and prayers to the women affected. We will see soon I guess. I hope I am wrong about Biden.
He cannot legally issue an executive order on abortion -- that's not one of his constitutional powers. The only way out of this one was always the same: dismantle the filibuster, expand the court, neither of which was ever (or will be) seriously pursued.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Jun 24, 2022 15:29:50 GMT -5
Will Joe Biden do an executive order or leave it to the states? I'm thinking the latter, despite him claiming he'd do an executive order. I'm sure he will offer thoughts and prayers to the women affected. We will see soon I guess. I hope I am wrong about Biden.
He cannot legally issue an executive order on abortion -- that's not one of his constitutional powers. The only way out of this one was always the same: dismantle the filibuster, expand the court, neither of which was ever (or will be) seriously pursued.
He already said he'd take executive action. There are things he can do to help matters via executive action which are constitutional.
He can also just do it directly anyway, unconstitutional or otherwise, because he does have the authority and just let it get overturned, in the meantime, the order is in effect and women would remain protected for weeks, months, maybe even years depending on how fast it's overturned. That process takes time. Time is what people need at the moment, since it's already done and decided on by SCOTUS.
Even an unconstitutional EO would be better than throwing his hands in the air as it would force the discussion and give time to try to solve the matter legally, like as you say, start with ending the filibuster.
But if we look at Joe's history, he hates abortion. In 2006 he called it a "tragedy". His public position has shifted in later years, like when he began campaigning for Obama and so on. But his actions demonstrate he's probably alright with the SCOTUS decision.
He's been laughably compared with FDR in the past. But guess what FDR wasn't afraid to do? Take executive action, even when unconstitutional and outright monstrous. But he accomplished his goals.
Right now Biden's approval rating is extremely low. He has nothing to lose. And considering the majority of the country WANTS abortion rights, I think they'd be extremely happy with an unconstitutional EO.
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Post by girllikeabomb on Jun 24, 2022 16:25:17 GMT -5
He cannot legally issue an executive order on abortion -- that's not one of his constitutional powers. The only way out of this one was always the same: dismantle the filibuster, expand the court, neither of which was ever (or will be) seriously pursued.
He already said he'd take executive action. There are things he can do to help matters via executive action which are constitutional.
He can also just do it directly anyway, unconstitutional or otherwise, because he does have the authority and just let it get overturned, in the meantime, the order is in effect and women would remain protected for weeks, months, maybe even years depending on how fast it's overturned. That process takes time. Time is what people need at the moment, since it's already done and decided on by SCOTUS.
Even an unconstitutional EO would be better than throwing his hands in the air as it would force the discussion and give time to try to solve the matter legally, like as you say, start with ending the filibuster.
But if we look at Joe's history, he hates abortion. In 2006 he called it a "tragedy". His public position has shifted in later years, like when he began campaigning for Obama and so on. But his actions demonstrate he's probably alright with the SCOTUS decision.
He's been laughably compared with FDR in the past. But guess what FDR wasn't afraid to do? Take executive action, even when unconstitutional and outright monstrous. But he accomplished his goals.
Right now Biden's approval rating is extremely low. He has nothing to lose. And considering the majority of the country WANTS abortion rights, I think they'd be extremely happy with an unconstitutional EO.
Well, issuing unconstitutional executive orders is both pointless (they will be immediately halted by the courts which have that power) and harming democracy, since that is a dictatorship (and not a precedent you'd like to set given who might be the next President.)
Despite the media focus on them, executive orders are largely ceremonial outside of wars and immigration (the two areas where the President does have substantive, constitutionally-granted powers.)
As the articles you linked suggested, about the most Biden could do via executive order is to ease interstate travel restrictions for those seeking abortions – although even this would be legally on the edge (and likely struck down.)
He may still do that, there's no time limit on it. But unfortunately, many vulnerable women including the poor, the young, the scared, immigrants and those who work daily, are not able to travel, so that is also hardly a fix. Nor will it stop the Orwellian surveillance of women, doctors and people's private sex lives that is already ramping up in some states. Many lives will be lost, many lives will be ruined, even with a travel work-around. Plus, the Court announced its agenda today. Griswold (legal contraception), Obergefell (gay marriage) and Lawrence (decriminalizing gay sex) are all on the chopping block based on the opinion.
The fix needs to be in the Court, but that will take real courage of a kind that's been lacking in America for quite some time.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Jun 24, 2022 17:23:08 GMT -5
He already said he'd take executive action. There are things he can do to help matters via executive action which are constitutional.
He can also just do it directly anyway, unconstitutional or otherwise, because he does have the authority and just let it get overturned, in the meantime, the order is in effect and women would remain protected for weeks, months, maybe even years depending on how fast it's overturned. That process takes time. Time is what people need at the moment, since it's already done and decided on by SCOTUS.
Even an unconstitutional EO would be better than throwing his hands in the air as it would force the discussion and give time to try to solve the matter legally, like as you say, start with ending the filibuster.
But if we look at Joe's history, he hates abortion. In 2006 he called it a "tragedy". His public position has shifted in later years, like when he began campaigning for Obama and so on. But his actions demonstrate he's probably alright with the SCOTUS decision.
He's been laughably compared with FDR in the past. But guess what FDR wasn't afraid to do? Take executive action, even when unconstitutional and outright monstrous. But he accomplished his goals.
Right now Biden's approval rating is extremely low. He has nothing to lose. And considering the majority of the country WANTS abortion rights, I think they'd be extremely happy with an unconstitutional EO.
Well, issuing unconstitutional executive orders is both pointless (they will be immediately halted by the courts which have that power) and harming democracy, since that is a dictatorship (and not a precedent you'd like to set given who might be the next President.)
Despite the media focus on them, executive orders are largely ceremonial outside of wars and immigration (the two areas where the President does have substantive, constitutionally-granted powers.)
As the articles you linked suggested, about the most Biden could do via executive order is to ease interstate travel restrictions for those seeking abortions – although even this would be legally on the edge (and likely struck down.)
He may still do that, there's no time limit on it. But unfortunately, many vulnerable women including the poor, the young, the scared, immigrants and those who work daily, are not able to travel, so that is also hardly a fix. Nor will it stop the Orwellian surveillance of women, doctors and people's private sex lives that is already ramping up in some states. Many lives will be lost, many lives will be ruined, even with a travel work-around. Plus, the Court announced its agenda today. Griswold (legal contraception), Obergefell (gay marriage) and Lawrence (decriminalizing gay sex) are all on the chopping block based on the opinion.
The fix needs to be in the Court, but that will take real courage of a kind that's been lacking in America for quite some time.
This is not accurate. They are not immediately halted. It can take years to challenge them. In some instances, like with the Emancipation Proclamation ... they even stick, despite being unconstitutional. Executive power can be used strategically like anything else. Be it to give us new rights, like with The New Deal, seize property like gold at force or to intern an entire racial demographic into camps, like happened to the Japanese Americans in WW2.
My point is, it's within the power of the Presidency and in this case, would be used for a good purpose, to expand rights, rather than reduce them, no different than Lincoln's most famous EO. Even Trump issued an unconstitutional EO which required action from Biden too reverse. The precedent has already been set. Long set. It's a tool to use or to squander. As long as it's being used to do real good and expand or preserve rights, I frankly don't care if it's unconstitutional. It's right. And it might be the only actual way abortion rights return. Democrats had 50 years and failed to codify it.
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Post by girllikeabomb on Jun 24, 2022 17:32:19 GMT -5
This is not accurate. They are not immediately halted.
The Courts can and have issued immediate injunctions against executive orders. It's already happened several times during the Biden Administration! (Sure, the larger legal issues can take years to decide but the injunctions usually stand.)
Obviously, paperwork will be filed within 3 seconds of a Biden executive order on abortion.
That's not gonna save women's lives unfortunately. Better to fight where things can actually happen.
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Post by settingson on Jun 24, 2022 20:26:09 GMT -5
An inevitable consequence of a ridiculous, archaic system. A President was in power for 4 years and was able to appoint 3 judges to life-long positions? Not smart, whatever your politics.
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Post by carlober on Jun 25, 2022 4:35:57 GMT -5
Shocking and appalling. Not what you expect to happen in 2022.
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Post by mimmihopps on Jun 25, 2022 5:47:38 GMT -5
Shocking and really sad.
Do they really think this 'protect' yet to born lives? What on earth do they think of all those women who unwillingly got pregnant for whatever the reason and will end up risking their lives as they have to rely on illegal abortion? I as a woman, can't believe something like this happen in 2022.
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Post by Day Tripper on Jun 25, 2022 5:57:09 GMT -5
The Democrats are using these basic human rights as a bargaining chip for themselves and this is the result. Why didn't they change these abortion rights into a law with a majority in the congress? Totally useless party.
Democracy is dead in the USA.
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Post by Day Tripper on Jun 25, 2022 6:06:36 GMT -5
I'v heard some people making comments that this just gives more control to the states and increasing democracy.
This is totally wrong. It's a small minority trying to pass these laws, but because the whole country is so polarised people have to choose their side even if they don't agree with what they're voting for. In these more conservative states people would rather vote for a rotten politician trying to abolish human rights than vote for a goddamn liberal and in the end no one is happy.
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Post by RocketMan on Jun 25, 2022 8:04:01 GMT -5
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Post by oasisserbia on Jun 27, 2022 2:58:50 GMT -5
I didn't have a clue what Roe v Wade means and did not know what this thread is about.
Now that I know, all I can say, WTF USA 😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳
I can't believe really, didn't even know that they were talking about this 😳😳😳😳😳
Sad 😔
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Jun 27, 2022 8:59:36 GMT -5
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Post by oasisserbia on Jun 27, 2022 9:12:18 GMT -5
And they can fuck off with their pro-life term. Someone asked am I pro-life or pro-choise... I mean, fuck off, I am pro-life and pro-choise, you can't trick me with that shit terminology. We should not allow that pro-life term to be used in that way.
✌️🧡
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Jun 27, 2022 9:39:21 GMT -5
Biden can't dig up dirt on Manchin and Sinema? He can't dig up dirt on enough Republicans to get them to vote to end the filibuster? Biden can't threaten (or follow through) with a threat to expand SCOTUS? He can't pass an executive order and let it get challenged by the courts?
Biden can fight. The Democrats can fight. But they have proven they are unwilling to fight for your rights. They are unwilling to lift a finger and make the hard, career defining choices. So instead they shift the impetus onto you, the voter, so that they can wipe their hands clean and pretend like it's our fault, rather than theirs. Shifting the burden to the voters has consistently failed to lead to codification in the past, despite numerous majorities and super majorities. That's suddenly expected to change now? Of course not. The Democrats know this. They are playing us like a fiddle. WAKE UP.
Maybe it's entering conspiracy territory, but the focus now being on Roe v Wade, Democrats are probably relieved. Because now they can stop focusing on healthcare and guns and minimum wage and infrastructure and climate. Because now it will just be about regaining lost ground for likely YEARS.
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Post by girllikeabomb on Jun 27, 2022 14:09:42 GMT -5
It's the only hope. This court is only just starting and when they are done the country won't look the same. Today, it was eroding the separation of church and state. Later this week it will be a landmark decision removing the EPA's power to enforce national environmental regulations (a decision that will set back any hope of reducing climate change by 100 years.)
The court must be reformed. It's not representative of the people in the least. (But saying this, I am also doubtful that the courage and political will exist to get it done.)
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