|
Post by Doc Lobster on Feb 11, 2017 12:28:25 GMT -5
I keep having mixed feelings about this. Initially I got terribly excited when the album was announced ("Noel is finally doing something risky, he is recording out-there stuff!"), but as I started listening to the AA, all I discovered was bland, cliched psychedelia. Certainly nothing that could be classified as "out there". The way Gaz talks, you would think he's the next Sun Ra, but their stuff falls more in the Lord Sitar category for me. Mind you, I find FSOL amazing, so I wonder what happens when they put on their AA hat. They go into the studio with some of the best musicians in the world (Gary Lucas anyone?), and they are clearly good producers, but manage to come out with something unmemorable.
If the AA album was indeed HFB with the usual psychedelia-by-numbers touches plus two or three new tracks, as Gaz Cobain's post seems to indicate, it probably was a good idea to shelve it. The HFB album is not perfect by any means, and I would be interested in hearing the AA versions (especially If I Had a Gun), but I wouldn't like The Death of You and Me sounding like a Donovan parody. The material is too good for that.
(As an anecdote, I kind of lost respect for the AA guys when I listened to the first Monstrous Psychedelic Bubble compilation and noticed they had used the somewhat bland remix of Miles Davis' Rated X instead of the original album version, which is really out there.)
|
|
|
Post by mossy on Feb 11, 2017 17:41:42 GMT -5
I keep having mixed feelings about this. Initially I got terribly excited when the album was announced ("Noel is finally doing something risky, he is recording out-there stuff!"), but as I started listening to the AA, all I discovered was bland, cliched psychedelia. Certainly nothing that could be classified as "out there". The way Gaz talks, you would think he's the next Sun Ra, but their stuff falls more in the Lord Sitar category for me. Mind you, I find FSOL amazing, so I wonder what happens when they put on their AA hat. They go into the studio with some of the best musicians in the world (Gary Lucas anyone?), and they are clearly good producers, but manage to come out with something unmemorable. If the AA album was indeed HFB with the usual psychedelia-by-numbers touches plus two or three new tracks, as Gaz Cobain's post seems to indicate, it probably was a good idea to shelve it. The HFB album is not perfect by any means, and I would be interested in hearing the AA versions (especially If I Had a Gun), but I wouldn't like The Death of You and Me sounding like a Donovan parody. The material is too good for that. (As an anecdote, I kind of lost respect for the AA guys when I listened to the first Monstrous Psychedelic Bubble compilation and noticed they had used the somewhat bland remix of Miles Davis' Rated X instead of the original album version, which is really out there.) Some wise words from Mr Davis: "It's not about standing still and becoming safe. If anybody wants to keep creating they have to be about change." "If you sacrifice your art because of some woman, or some man, or for some color, or for some wealth, you can't be trusted."
|
|
|
Post by asimarx on Feb 12, 2017 10:12:41 GMT -5
Gaz liked my post saying he should leak it, or release the demo versions of the tracks that he mentioned Would you mind asking Gaz what songs exactly they had worked on with Noel during their first session and, like in the case of The Right Stuff/The Mexican which had different names, how they were titled at that time? Or even what the supposed tracklist should have been? I'd really appreciate that, since I'm still trying to put a recording sessions guide together. Well, mostly trying. Gaz had previously mentioned a track from the session called "Crimson Rambler". Intriguing title, isn't it?
|
|
|
Post by theseventwenty on Feb 12, 2017 11:19:52 GMT -5
Some more snippets: "I was asked to comment by the NME on the ridiculous destruction of CD 'ritual' ... I didn't ...I didn't think it was even necessary to discuss if the people who did all of the work for 18 months delivered it on that cd ?" "Yes ' shit ' was the easiest way to dismiss in the least number of syllables and very convenient 'since no one can hear it .( and neatly cuts short deeper questioning If it's shit how come you 'co- opted ' ( cough ) two tracks ( the Right Stuff / Mexican ) , used Death of You and me on the end of your video , released SHOOT A HOLE INTO THE SUN ... already in those 4 you've got a half decent album especially when you factor in he butchered ' the MEXICAN ' and ours was wayyyyy more interesting ,,, GIMME SHELTER meets the HAPPY MONDAYS ..." "Marcus is a teddy when instructed to so I assume when he's ruthless ...." "Stop the clocks was pretty much his song but we went Floyd on it ( 70 s WALL Floyd not soundscape ) I've been updating my original post ( as I remember and as things occur to give clarity ) but I've mentioned that 'on stop the clocks ' Noel was resisting us changing certain things which was fine since we thought it was his solo album but in hindsight an absolute nonsense if it's remixes TERRIBLE TERRIBLE communication and a complete lack of thought as to the repercussions of that communication We knew this alone had fucked it when we heard his ' 2 albums not one ' press conference but we had no choice but to jump to the tune and rejig 18 months of intense love and conceptualization If , let's suppose , they had figured it out , and actually communicated , I could have rattled off the remixes in a tenth of the time ( do you realize how easy remixes with carte Blanche are compared to the responsibility of Noel's first ever solo album and the first time these tracks WILL EVER BE HEARD !! ) No -oasis fans we don't just abstract everything and wank off ... we loved the songs that we chose !! SHOOT A HOLE was written out of absolute embarrassment Noel had the front to describe our album as sounding like DARK SIDE OF THE MOON , ha ha fucking ha ... There we were struggling with JESUS FREAKS .. Ok we have to go quirky KINKS on this get the vintage in , playing ' see my friends ' and ' sunny afternoon ' for reference and then we read that !!!!! ' fuck we better just do something really fucked up cos how the fuck is DEATH OF YOU AND ME FLOYDDDDDDDD ??' Don't get me wrong each track was treated differently , DEATH OF YOU AND ME is on the end of WHAT A LIFE ( I think ) video ... So back to the point ... remixes and responsibility of his solo album >>>>>>> It's a chasmmmmmmm apart I'd have a hugely successful remix album on my hands and everyone would fuckin love it and I wouldn't Have wasted a further year of my life ( unpaid with the further insult of our tracks stolen , dismissed in the press as having done a ' shit ' album etc etc etc Conversely since it was his main album ( as we were made to believe ) he could have actually had the respect to fulfill at least a part of what he promised to me personally and converse , collaborate and finish rather than have the unbelievable notion we could somehow amid all this shit of non communication and secrecy deliver it signed , sealed and delivered including finishing the writing of new tracks that he wasn't around to complete . You literally can't make this up !! We took months of extra time writing ( WRITING !!) NOT doing what we were contracted to do which was to produce HIS tracks but we believed in the MEXICAN and the RIGHT STUFF oh yeh and SHOOT A HOLE ( he never even knew we were doing that and had zero to do with it ZERO ZERO ZERO and there were 1/2 others which'll probably be on his new album no doubt the way this is panning out Bizarrely we are writers on SHOOT A HOLE ha ha you can't make this up ... but don't think this is benevolence no no no ... this was simply cos they'd already decided that he needed it to fulfill how wacky and far out he could be ( with zero credit for all my friends ( oh and his friend -TERRY KILBRIDE ( the drummer ) who were conveniently left off the credits despite me delivering them in plenty of advance for the 12 inch art work - btw I'm such a wanker that I rang round all musicians to personally apologize including TERRY who Noel had done that to !! It's fuckin unacceptable and tbh I'm amazed I've kept my mouth shut out of some misguided notion of professionalism ) so they'd already put their huge wheels in motion so when we turned round and said ' oh I think you'll find we wrote some of that , hardly IF I HAD A GUN is it ?' they had no choice but to rightly give us a cut ( him the majority, us just what we deserved , a slither - we're not wankers - we're extremely honest with everyone we deal with ) It's an absolute shit in a bucket of incompetence and miscommunication I should have downed tools and demanded more direct communication at points but I simply ignored the press ( it's embarrassing bringing up press speculation with celebs but you know what ? it was more truthful info than we ever received directly ) I kinda blame myself for not insisting on talking more with Noel really .. we got on .. I actually really liked him whenever I was with him , I just had no idea that artists conduct creative processes like this ! I'm used to working through problems and creative hurdles to get to greatness , I assumed we were doing that with him while all along he was doing another album ... he's welcome to do what he likes but don't fuck up my career , steal and then misuse your huge media power to discredit our very lovingly given work seems like a rant on paper but y'know what it takes a seismic fire to get this shit out on paper and it's only by feeling the fire that it can come out ... I've said too much I haven't said enough" " I see ... so you mean we should upload our backing tracks for ' the Right Stuff ' and ' the ' the Mexican ' do you imagine these sound like full songs ? Why would I do that ? We spent a week in the studio working with Noel as he wrote his guitars and vocals to them and then we worked for months more without Noel so why would we upload the original backing tracks ?" "everyone is great and certainly Noel is / could be too- My time with him shows me firmly that he has wayyyy more to give ... question is whether he'll simply buy it off the shelf OR do it himself I know he wants more , he's definitely searching , it's just a different pace ." "Funny enough a film maker friend of mine and I were talking about filming the making of this album at the beginning and I loved the idea of Noel in India doing yoga and having Ayurvedic treatments ( on me ) as a necessary beginning point ... simply cos my own vision was enhanced so dramatically by that around 97 ... and after all the idea ( initially ) was to make a psychedelic masterpiece .... couldn't have harmed and those first conversations were so open ... he was so different at the end of oasis ... so so humble almost vulnerable" "I was suggesting those proposing such acts upload material they don't own which could have serious consequences on their career and which might result in their own court cases ... It's so easy ( and lazy ) on here ,,, online ...this idea I give away material Just to remind you NOEL paid for it all so technically he owns it plus the majority are his songs , his copyright ( apart from the ones I dispute ) so technically they're not mine to give away" "But yeh let's all upload every fuckin thing cos we've all lost perspective on any kind of code"
|
|
|
Post by theseventwenty on Feb 12, 2017 11:41:14 GMT -5
Gaz liked my post saying he should leak it, or release the demo versions of the tracks that he mentioned Would you mind asking Gaz what songs exactly they had worked on with Noel during their first session and, like in the case of The Right Stuff/The Mexican which had different names, how they were titled at that time? Or even what the supposed tracklist should have been? I'd really appreciate that, since I'm still trying to put a recording sessions guide together. Well, mostly trying. Gaz had previously mentioned a track from the session called "Crimson Rambler". Intriguing title, isn't it? I'd definitely recomend asking him on FB about all this stuff - he's SUPER generous with replying to fans, he'd almost certainly get back to you. I dont mind asking, but saves you getting everything second hand through me...
|
|
|
Post by asimarx on Feb 12, 2017 11:45:23 GMT -5
Would you mind asking Gaz what songs exactly they had worked on with Noel during their first session and, like in the case of The Right Stuff/The Mexican which had different names, how they were titled at that time? Or even what the supposed tracklist should have been? I'd really appreciate that, since I'm still trying to put a recording sessions guide together. Well, mostly trying. Gaz had previously mentioned a track from the session called "Crimson Rambler". Intriguing title, isn't it? I'd definitely recomend asking him on FB about all this stuff - he's SUPER generous with replying to fans, he'd almost certainly get back to you. I dont mind asking, but saves you getting everything second hand through me... If you don't mind, please ask him. I'm not really involved in Facebook, let's put it that way. Big thanks in advance!
|
|
|
Post by theseventwenty on Feb 13, 2017 15:09:41 GMT -5
I'd definitely recomend asking him on FB about all this stuff - he's SUPER generous with replying to fans, he'd almost certainly get back to you. I dont mind asking, but saves you getting everything second hand through me... If you don't mind, please ask him. I'm not really involved in Facebook, let's put it that way. Big thanks in advance! His answer: "Sure - would sir like a free ' supersonic ' dvd to accompany that ?" and "What's the interest in Crimson Rambler and where have you heard of it ?" ...and then someone told him about this thread... "I ain't going down that rabbit hole ... Hope you're enjoying the show" "My main sadness right now is I'm not talking of all the positive stuff about the tracks and studio / recording anecdotes"
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2017 15:13:45 GMT -5
Ask him why he doesn't talk about the positive stuff? Also, what he thinks about the fact that all of us as Oasis/Noel fans believe pretty much every word he's saying?
|
|
|
Post by Lennon2217 on Feb 13, 2017 19:29:51 GMT -5
I thought originally, maybe mentioned at his July 2011 presser, that the AA album only featured 2-3 songs from HFB plus Freaky Teeth. As of now we know it contained.... Shoot A Hole The Mexican Ballad of The Mighty I Freaky Teeth The Death of You and Me Soldier Boys & Jesus Freaks Cosmic Rambler The Right Stuff I'm all in on this people. All fucking in!!!! I was so fucking naive..............
|
|
|
Post by mossy on Feb 13, 2017 19:34:16 GMT -5
Alright, this post will probably set a record for the longest ever, sorry for that…Anyway, leaving all the mutual accusations and bashing between Noel and the AA (in person of Gaz Cobain) aside, I’ve basically just tried to compile a proper recording sessions guide including supportive quotes form the involved parties. I’ve read through all the various press articles on the lost album since 2011 I could find very carefully, and especially Gaz’ Facebook ramblings too, and just put the relevant information together without much thinking…I had the impression that this topic really needed some kind of summary, as there’s always the same questions and speculations arising whenever it brought up again (no offence meant, by the way). Thanks to everyone involved in this thread and the other discussions that dealt with the subject and particularly the ones that had posted links to news articles, interviews etc., especially to mossy and The Crimson Rambler! Oh, and this is by no means complete or free of errors, you’ll notice the quotes are sometimes quite contradictory. Please feel free to add and correct. After all, I’ve just tried to put the focus on the actual music to find out what really was recorded by Noel and the AA/by the AA for Noel/by Noel without knowledge of the AA. So there you go… Dusty Attic Productions, Kent, UK – Fall/Winter 2009 until late 2011 Producers/Writers: Gaz Cobain, Brian Dougans and Noel Gallagher Recording Engineers: James Stone, … • Ballad Of The Mighty I [possibly titled “The Mighty I”] • Broken Arrow [?] • Crimson Rambler • Dream On [?] • Everybody’s On The Run • Freaky Teeth • If I Had A Gun… [2 versions] • Record Machine • Shoot A Hole Into The Sun [released on the b-side of the “Dream On”-single] • Soldier Boys And Jesus Freaks • Stop The Clocks • (Stranded On) The Wrong Beach [?] • Teotihuacan • The Death Of You And Me [Short snippets can be heard at the start and end of the official AKA…What A Life! video] • The Mexican [revised version released on “Chasing Yesterday”] • The Right Stuff [revised version released on “Chasing Yesterday”] • The Song Doesn’t Remain The Same • What A Life! [?] [Remix found on the b-side of “Everybody’s On The Run” was mixed after the main sessions and was not intended for the album] • … Other musicians possibly involved - “11 musicians” were involved according to Gaz Cobain (the following lists the extended AA band members; names and descriptions courtesy of the AA MySpace): Dave Sanderson - Owl vocalising and conga rhythms of the ancients Gary Lucas - His Guitarness.... [confirmed] Alisha Sufit - Voice from the Magic Carpet Stu Rowe and Antony Argiros - the lost chords Baluji Shrivastav and Jonathan Mayer- sitar, tablas and the Om Mikey Rowe and Rainy Moor - Analogue Overlords of the Vintage Keys and Hammond Dimension Virgil Howe - Drum Circle of One [confirmed] Kez Gunes - the Pulse of the Lower Frequencies Edd Keene - Upper Chakra Flutes Dianne Harris - Woman with burning vision As so often since the aborted/unreleased DIV sessions, Terry Kirkbride was involved recording the drums as well. This is proven by the only studio footage that has surfaced so far, showing the recording of Shoot A Hole Into The Sun: This is apparently the only image proof of the AA and Noel together in the studio: SUPPORTIVE QUOTES ON THE RECORDED SONGS: "no the one you're thinking of that we DID do was ' the song doesn't remain the same ' unfortunately that one was scrapped cos it was the quietest revolution of all time" (in reply to someone asking whether they were involved in Whilst the Song Remains the Same) "WHAT A LIFE ...we never chose it for our album cos we never liked it &.it was.just a remix after the event" “I agreed since most of our time had been spent writing the 4/5 new trax the Right stuff / Shoot a Hole / Crimson Rambler / MEXICAN so mixing had fallen by the wayside .”“this prompted me to spend another week being much more OUT THERE ,eventually creating 'SHOOT A HOLE 'when i already had two great versions of IF I HAD A GUN...”"[Teotihuacan] was brought forward for our consideration..."(Excerpts of posts from Gaz Cobain on his Facebook) Noel mentioned in early promo interviews for his “regular” debut that the 3 singles from that album (The Death Of You And Me, If I Had A Gun, What A Life) would be reworked for the AA album. Can’t find a direct quote unfortunately, but definitely can recall reading it a couple of times. Here’s Noel possibly referring to the AA version of Ballad Of The Mighty I: "Take the Ballad of the Mighty I. Pure dance tune. For some time I’ve had a slower psychedelic version of that song with conga’s, very 1969. In in the back my mind I had the idea to make it lighter, a bassline played by my engineer Paul Stacey and a drum beat was added. They give it the needed energy. Then Johnny Marr did his thing and he really made a twisted disco tune."(Oor magazine, January 2015, Thanks to General Dread, @mimihopps and Mean Mrs. Mustard for translating) He had also mentioned that Ballad Of The Mighty I was indeed recorded with the AA in the BBC Mastertapes interview in December 2014 James Stone, one of the recording engineers at Dusty Attic referred to Ballad Of The Mighty I on Twitter (@dustyatticpro) in early 2014: “@je_suisNatalie What happened to the Noel & Amorphous Androgynous album? That is what I want to know.” “@grantyh @je_suisnatalie he shelved it. I was one of the recording engineers on the album. Amazing songs, real shame. Mighty I is a killer” “noel has told hotpress ireland he sent amorphous androgynous if i had a gun,soldier boys and jesus freaks,everybodys on the run,record machine and stop the clocks. he said that soldier boys instrumental break went from 40 secs to 4mins and goes from rock to reggae to krautrock! (…) but he says that only 3 or 4 tracks from high flying birds will appear on amorphous album with 10 new tracks!”I couldn’t find a transcript or scan of this interview that originally appeared in Hot Press magazine in August/September 2011, so I had to quote user “rickrock79” from the official NGHFB forum. www.noelgallagher.com/old/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1193Funnily enough, The Right & The Mexican originally weren’t even supposed to be on Chasing Yesterday. The Right Stuff was originally supposed to be b-side in a longer instrumental form, The Mexican wasn’t even on the original running order and was just added to lighten things up after the “emotionally heavy” (can’t find the exact Noel quote) songs that preceed it. THE CHRONOLOGY OF THE NONE-RELEASE (in the words of Noel Gallagher) “The album’s [due in early/mid-2012] got 18 tracks on it. Some of it’s Vaudeville, some of it’s actual space jazz, some of it’s Krautrock, some of it’s soul, some of it’s funk… and that’s just the first song. It’s the furthest out I’ve ever been, put it that way.” (Album announcement/press conference, 6th July 2011) “It sounds a bit like Pink Floyd’s Dark Side of the Moon. The sound is similar to High Flying Birds, but more psychedelic and tripped out. It’s not an electronic project. People are jumping to that conclusion because Amorphous Androgynous used to be an electronic outfit. I’m not even sure what the album’s title is going to be yet. I’m just fucking about with the mixes now. When will it be out? In my head, next summer. But if High Flying Birds is a success, then not until next winter.”(Spin, September 2011) www.spin.com/2011/09/qa-noel-gallagher-solo-lp-oasis/"I've got a break in the middle of this tour in July, so now the plan is to do something then, and then to finish it off after the tour in October. So it might come out at the end of the year, but it's more likely to be next year now. […] I set the benchmark pretty high with this record [Noel Gallagher's High Flying Birds], and I'm not just putting [out] a record for the f**king sake of it. At the moment it's not a great record – so it won't come out until it is."(NME, February 2012) www.nme.com/news/noel-gallagher/62040"Well, yes, it's recorded but it's not mixed. And whether it'll ever see the light of day or not, I don't know. There's a lot of work left to be done. A lot of work. I just did my bits in the studio and left it up to the Amorphous Androgynous to artistically direct it. And unfortunately for everybody, they've not finished it."(AZ Central, April 2012) “The second album [with Amorphous Androgynous] ended up having to be scrapped. (…) I don’t think it will come out. I’m pleased with the songs. The songs that I did when I was in the studio—I’ll probably re-record them. But the moment has passed, I think. Do you know what I mean? When you have records, there’s a window before their moment passes. I’ve already moved on from that Amorphous Androgynous thing. I’ve written a bunch more songs since then, so I’m afraid—unfortunately—the success of this album killed that one. I wasn’t planning on being on tour for 15 months. Well, it was a record that contains songs that weren’t conventional songs. It wasn’t verse-chorus-verse-chorus. They’re a bit trippy and a bit floaty. My songs, in general, they don’t really rely on the mix. They’re all written on acoustic guitar. They’re as good with me just singing them into the microphone in the style of Bob Dylan as they are with a full band. The High Flying Birds album didn’t rely on the mixes. The songs were there. This was a record that—absolutely, 100 percent—relied on the mixes, because they weren’t songs, so to speak. They were grooves and, you know, there weren’t many chords in them. And the mixes weren’t fucking right. And unfortunately, I didn’t have time to go back in and remix it. And now I’m too fucked. I’m fucked. I’ve been on the road for 15 months. I am fucked.”(AV Club, October 2012) www.avclub.com/article/noel-gallagher-on-going-solo-and-working-with-hipp-87837“But for all the great ideas on it… I was in the middle of a tour, that last album had blown up, the mixes weren't right. And by the time I got back off tour I was just like, 'I'm not fucking putting out another record, I can't be arsed'.” The former Oasis man added that track 'The Right Stuff' from his upcoming album 'Chasing Yesterday', which began its life on the Amorphous Androgynous album, is "vastly different from the first one." He said: "The [song] in this record is vastly different from the first one, which had a lot of noodling and fucking about. It's become quite psychedelic, jazz, fucking whatever you wanna call it."(NME, January 2015) www.nme.com/news/noel-gallagher/82326#bjLMHifyr830Cd0A.99“Oh yeah, Shoot a Hole Into the Sun. That was amazing and it was the one good thing that came out of that record. On this record, The Right Stuff was born out of that project – but what's on the album is completely different. If I played you what was done by Amorphous Androgynous, you'd barely recognise it. We were doing a completely different track that's never come out, which right at the end had those three chords as an outro thing. I didn't think anything of it and went back to the studio the next day, and they'd looped those three chords and I played drums and put a bit of a beat on it. I wrote a song around that. When it came to this album, I thought that the idea was good, but the execution wasn't very good – so I re-recorded it, got a saxophone player. [It was] the same with The Mexican, which came out of another tune which I started played the riff of. It had a bit of a vibe.”(entertainment.ie, February 2015) entertainment.ie/music/news/Interview-entertainmentie-speaks-to-Noel-Gallagher-Part-1/347042.htmTHE GENESIS AND DOWNFALL OF AN ALBUM (according to Gaz Cobain) “Between 2009 and 2011, I was obsessed with Noel Gallagher. During that period, we spent four weeks in the studio with him. The rest of the time it was just Brian [Dougans, the other half of AA] and me, in control of the budgets, all the music and the musicians. We got in Gary Lucas from Captain Beefheart’s Magic Band and Virgil Howe, son of Steve Howe of Yes, to give an idea of how far-out we were going.”(The Guardian, May 2015) www.theguardian.com/music/2015/may/07/noel-gallagher-oasis-amorphous-androgynous-too-afraid-to-be-weird“We spent two years working on what was supposed to be the solo album with Noel.”(musicfeeds.com, April 2015) musicfeeds.com.au/features/amorphous-androgynous-gaz-cobain-talks-working-with-noel-gallagher-paul-weller-ian-astbury-more/ “…he recorded another album, which did straight version, in exactly the same order as ours…” “…he actually recorded another album in secret that also completely copied our track order…”(digitalaudioreview.net, April 2015) www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/04/noel-gallaghers-lost-amorphous-androgynous-album/“He basically came out when we'd been making an album for about a year and a half, and he said: 'I'm not releasing one album, I'm releasing two.' That was the first time I heard about it, and I'd been working on his record for a year and a half, and I didn't even know that he'd been recording the same stuff that we were doing in a straight form. I mean, we were the only people who had ever made him improvise on the spot, and we wrote backing tracks for him. Both of those tracks [The Right Stuff & The Mexican] - we wrote the backing tracks, we worked on them for six months waiting for our moment to come, and we finally get him to come to the party. He writes some lyrics and some basslines, and do you know who he thinks wrote those tracks?”Interviewer: “Noel?” “Yes, him. On his new record, we are co-producers - we're not even writers.”(The Quietus, May 2015) thequietus.com/articles/17837-amorphous-androgynous-garry-cobain-on-noel-gallagher“...[Noel] expected us to join the suffering masochists that hang around him , contributing without credit ( like the 11 musicians ( mostly friends of mine ( sorry again guys ! ) but even a couple of Noels friends he brought in ( I say 'friends' but it was me who rang them personally to explain and apologize )who's credits mysteriously disappeared from the sleeve of DREAM ON / SHOOT A HOLE ( didn't quite fit the picture of solo career maybe ) DESPITE us delivering them months in advance of the deadline for our sleeve art credits ?)
everything was amazing but it needed bigger mixes- we agreed since we'd spent way too much time writing new tracks ( the Right Stuff/ the Mexican/ Shoot a Hole plus a coupla others ) to be able to mix to the fullest....so it seemed a good plan....he went on tour with the other album and gradually realized he couldn't be arsed...”
„We took on his songs( apart from the new ones we wrote ) in pretty much their natural flow ( bar the odd extended Intro / instrumental break or freak out here and there ) as soon as you get near to his song he just doesn't 'get it 'and wants it guitar / bass / drums so your best bet is just gratuitously fucking with it - turn it into new songs . He's very impressed / wowed by that .I never wanted to do that cos actually the songs I chose I liked but just wanted more colour and depth and imagination ( and groove at points ) . Once he decided to secretly record his straight versions and ours was a 'radical remixes ' album ours was kinda fucked cos he overlooked to tell us of any such plan and therefore he wouldn't want to muddy the water with other 'competitive ' versions of the song . In other words , radical remixes suits him cos they don't threaten his version ...“ „Hence the only things he's released by us are either radical or completely new ( but in my opinion nowhere near the best stuff - our 2 mixes of IF I HAD A GUN ( before a 3rd - SHOOT A HOLE was done out of embarrassment he kept comparing our 'shit ' album to DARK SIDE OF THE MOON ) are possibly my favourite.“
„To be honest... the biggest disappointment for me in all of this is that in the end our material was just cherry picked to give him obscurity credibility when actually the best things we did ( imo )were actually perfectly measured songs flowing ( not abstracted ) but very creatively produced... something i believe which would have been loved by his fans hungry for a little expansion but also non-believers .....“(Gaz Cobain’s Facebook, 2015) And last but not least… GAZ COBAIN ON REMIXING CHASING YESTERDAY „…oh and by the way we were remixing the whole of CHASING YESTERDAY before we realized what was happening with the Right Stuff and the Mexican......not quite so clear cut now is it ?“
„The dissolution of that particular job ( free rein to remix an alternative CHASING YESTERDAY all agreed , contracts drawn up, ready to sign ) was us asking 'awkward' questions about' the right stuff 'and 'the MEXICAN ' in terms our writing credits.“
„…our CHASING YESTERDAY would have included us finalizing our original versions of both songs [The Right Stuff/The Mexican]“
“we chose RIVERMAN as one of the 8 we WERE working from Chasing Yesterday album but no way did it start our album - closed it ( or should I say what we had in mind closed it )”
“Don't worry Noel I got them all including multitracks for all your solo albums including Chasing Yesterday ... How the hell we were remixing his latest 'opus ' when we're so 'shit' is beyond me unless”(Excerpts of posts from Gaz Cobain on his Facebook) This post is always worth a bump. X
|
|
|
Post by Doc Lobster on Feb 14, 2017 5:29:11 GMT -5
Someone should try to bribe Gaz with a bag full of LSD and anti-vaccine literature to see if we can convince him to leak the stuff. The guy is clearly dying to show the world how the sessions went.
|
|
|
Post by Tales from The Mighty I on Feb 14, 2017 5:35:34 GMT -5
Someone should try to bribe Gaz with a bag full of LSD and anti-vaccine literature to see if we can convince him to leak the stuff. The guy is clearly dying to show the world how the sessions went. He said that Noel may get legal with him if he ever does anything remotely leaky about the AA sessions. So really, he can't. Which is a damn shame.
|
|
|
Post by mossy on Feb 14, 2017 5:36:37 GMT -5
Someone should try to bribe Gaz with a bag full of LSD and anti-vaccine literature to see if we can convince him to leak the stuff. The guy is clearly dying to show the world how the sessions went. Unfortunately Gaz has said multiple times on Facebook he won't leak it as it's Noel's material and he has a sense of honour about these things. That and he doesn't want to get sued ;-) So our only hope is an anniversary addition or Mean Mrs. Mustard and her catsuit...
|
|
|
Post by Gas Panic on Feb 14, 2017 6:13:18 GMT -5
Someone should try to bribe Gaz with a bag full of LSD and anti-vaccine literature to see if we can convince him to leak the stuff. The guy is clearly dying to show the world how the sessions went. Unfortunately Gaz has said multiple times on Facebook he won't leak it as it's Noel's material and he has a sense of honour about these things. That and he doesn't want to get sued ;-) So our only hope is an anniversary addition or Mean Mrs. Mustard and her catsuit... Surely there would be ways around it? Like flying a plane over Twickenham stadium in July and releasing thousands of CDs in and around the stadium during the HFB gig with U2?
|
|
|
Post by Doc Lobster on Feb 14, 2017 14:54:16 GMT -5
A little info on Freaky Teeth: "we identified it as 'devil blues redemption song 'and put dirty bottle neck played by Gary Lucas of captain beefheart / Jeff Buckley ( grace / mojo pin ) on it plus some eerie mouth organ ( Morricone ' once upon a time in the west ' we've been seeing this devil blues indie thing for years and decided to crank it right up to the max .... funny 'take me to church' does it very well ( lyrically ) years later but cleaner on the mix Was a good directive and yeh I like the song" Gary Lucas is a serious contender for the "greatest living guitar player" title and I'm gutted we won't be able to hear his contributions to Noel's tracks. Go check his music if you haven't, especially his solo guitar stuff, he's unbelievable.
|
|
|
Post by mossy on Feb 15, 2017 3:41:45 GMT -5
To be fair to old Noelly G, he did release The Right Stuff and he's now working with David Holmes and trying new things by writing in the studio. Hopefully it bears tasty fruit. 🍉
|
|
|
Post by Doc Lobster on Feb 15, 2017 8:09:20 GMT -5
New extra-long rant from Gaz. Someone posted this comment about the video:
"I honestly like your snippets here more than the song that was released... I didn't even realize that you were a part of this one. I love Noel, but I really would like to hear your version in it's full glory, because this sounds really great."
And this is Gaz's reply:
... Oh man do I want to hear their version(s) of IIHAG now! The production on the album version is so lacklustre. Anyway, I'd be really intrigued to see what was written in the original contract. Noel spent a month with them in the studio. I'd bet he wasn't expecting them to spend another 17 months working on it! Seems like a real clash of cultures: the Oasis money spinning brand versus the uncommercial hippies who just care about making music. I think there was naivety on both sides but Noel initiated the project and their criticisms of his poor communication seem very fair to me.
It seems very clear that Noel initiated this project just to see what they would come up with and recorded a straight version of the album just in case he wasn't too enamoured with the AA one. From what Gaz says, it seems that they respected the songs' structure and didn't commit too many excesses, but I can easily imagine why Noel wasn't too happy with some of the decisions (even if it might be wrong from an artistic point of view). For example, taking the IIHAG demo as the basis was bound to fail, as Noel clearly decided to change the vocal approach to the song and some of the lyrics for the released version. That's in line with Noel's comment about him not being happy with the results and feeling like "he was doing an album for them" (probably not his exact words).
I think this artistic relationship was doomed from the beginning. Noel is a very stubborn person, for good and bad, and he needs a producer that can both accommodate his wishes and push him to do something different. The AA guys put too much emphasis on what they thought were the right ideas without seeing the obvious red flag that if Noel thought his vision was being compromised, the whole thing would get scrapped. You can't take two parties who aren't willing to compromise and expect them to produce something. On the one hand, you have an artist with a fresh batch of new songs that he wants some spice on, and on the other hand you have a couple of producers from a different musical background and who think the stuff is not good enough (WAL, for example) or would benefit from major changes (pretty much the rest). And both of them have massive egos. It really is a clash of personalities and objectives.
This whole situation reminds me of when a couple splits and you could see it coming from the beginning and you're just thinking "how on Earth did you ever think this was going to work?".
|
|
|
Post by Doc Lobster on Feb 15, 2017 9:52:05 GMT -5
Gaz posted a "note to Oasis fans". There's even a nod to my LSD/anti-vaccine joke (For the record, nothing against tofu here. Tofu is awesome!)
-----
A note to OASIS fans :
I'm aware of the fact you're analyzing my words . I only became aware of it recently when someone posted a link . Reading through your forum has inspired in me belief even you have been short changed and certainly helps dissolve this idea that people are all ignorant to simply turn everything into sides / teams / petty wars .... In fact it's been very informative and I'm happy to see actually most of you are delighted to have insight into this album
I'd love to talk positively of all the wonderful aspects of this album , but y'see I cannot win since you'd think I was hyping it and you up and that somehow its bullshit or self propaganda so unfortunately only anecdotes that illustrate my objective are relevant
What is my objective ? Unlike Noel who has daily access to the media and huge power to create and build propaganda / stories to suit his end over time ( I used to do it as FSOL - literally create my own propaganda building on stuff from previous interviews ( cos it's only when you read it you start realizing how it's coming across and whether you like it or not ? So talking through the press is also a very creative process ) So back to the point , we run a small label and don't even hire press people so press is very scant and we have no power so redressing the way Noel has done this for several years is impossible - his word has become the facts of it !
I can't reverse them but I have realized I am absolutely free to speak . This world relies on silence to support the bullshit. My silence has been bought by the lure of future work / commerce / reputation / other prospective music to be released and it's only by saying ' to fuck ' with the consequences to that I can truly give my voice
I have decided my voice is the most important thing NOT these other considerations which buy silence .
Noel is aided by the silence of many . It does him no favors . I'm NOT playing the celeb game and conspiring anymore .
Yes it's detailed , it's 2 years ( more when you consider chasing yesterday and watching our work constantly being utilized in part and our conversations about that )
If you think the detail makes us untrustworthy then that's for you to assess . If you prefer the dismissive silence of your ' chief ' that is also your preference . You don't learn anything by that tho do you ? If that inspires you that's your preference , but it's not my bag . I'm used to communication , complexity & honesty to arrive at the finish line and I was prepared for anything !!
All that happened was we finished stage 1 of a great album , looked up to start the fun stuff of actively hearing opinions ( strong ones we hoped !!) and collaborating with them but he was off to tour an album we never even knew about !
It is only my side . But it's a side that reveals the most since bar a month in the studio and mixing the new tracks only ( shoot a hole / Mexican / right stuff ) I'm not convinced they did anything more HE DID NONE OF THE WORK so he doesn't really have much to say If you'd like to assume the rest was shit that is also your prerogative but the question remains why were we scheduled to remix the whole of ( whatever WE wanted ) from CHASING YESTERDAY then And why did we work for 2 years And listen to his press conference and the way he talks about it ? at what stage did it become shit ?? Oh yeh - when I started putting our side with our limited powers ( read the previous post where I detail how I wasn't in control of this and how I bailed responding )
Pretty obvious it don't stack up
I am here and am happy to speak about matters relating to the album that illustrate my objective ( to put our side and to show the extent of love , creativity and thought that went into it ) but I'm not interested in filling out the nerdish fanboy detail that doesn't relate to this . Hope you understand that
Peace to all ( free tofu / LSD and anti vacc information sheets too )
|
|
|
Post by The Crimson Rambler on Feb 15, 2017 10:35:56 GMT -5
Gaz posted a "note to Oasis fans". There's even a nod to my LSD/anti-vaccine joke (For the record, nothing against tofu here. Tofu is awesome!)
-----
A note to OASIS fans :
I'm aware of the fact you're analyzing my words . I only became aware of it recently when someone posted a link . Reading through your forum has inspired in me belief even you have been short changed and certainly helps dissolve this idea that people are all ignorant to simply turn everything into sides / teams / petty wars .... In fact it's been very informative and I'm happy to see actually most of you are delighted to have insight into this album
I'd love to talk positively of all the wonderful aspects of this album , but y'see I cannot win since you'd think I was hyping it and you up and that somehow its bullshit or self propaganda so unfortunately only anecdotes that illustrate my objective are relevant
What is my objective ? Unlike Noel who has daily access to the media and huge power to create and build propaganda / stories to suit his end over time ( I used to do it as FSOL - literally create my own propaganda building on stuff from previous interviews ( cos it's only when you read it you start realizing how it's coming across and whether you like it or not ? So talking through the press is also a very creative process ) So back to the point , we run a small label and don't even hire press people so press is very scant and we have no power so redressing the way Noel has done this for several years is impossible - his word has become the facts of it !
I can't reverse them but I have realized I am absolutely free to speak . This world relies on silence to support the bullshit. My silence has been bought by the lure of future work / commerce / reputation / other prospective music to be released and it's only by saying ' to fuck ' with the consequences to that I can truly give my voice
I have decided my voice is the most important thing NOT these other considerations which buy silence .
Noel is aided by the silence of many . It does him no favors . I'm NOT playing the celeb game and conspiring anymore .
Yes it's detailed , it's 2 years ( more when you consider chasing yesterday and watching our work constantly being utilized in part and our conversations about that )
If you think the detail makes us untrustworthy then that's for you to assess . If you prefer the dismissive silence of your ' chief ' that is also your preference . You don't learn anything by that tho do you ? If that inspires you that's your preference , but it's not my bag . I'm used to communication , complexity & honesty to arrive at the finish line and I was prepared for anything !!
All that happened was we finished stage 1 of a great album , looked up to start the fun stuff of actively hearing opinions ( strong ones we hoped !!) and collaborating with them but he was off to tour an album we never even knew about !
It is only my side . But it's a side that reveals the most since bar a month in the studio and mixing the new tracks only ( shoot a hole / Mexican / right stuff ) I'm not convinced they did anything more HE DID NONE OF THE WORK so he doesn't really have much to say If you'd like to assume the rest was shit that is also your prerogative but the question remains why were we scheduled to remix the whole of ( whatever WE wanted ) from CHASING YESTERDAY then And why did we work for 2 years And listen to his press conference and the way he talks about it ? at what stage did it become shit ?? Oh yeh - when I started putting our side with our limited powers ( read the previous post where I detail how I wasn't in control of this and how I bailed responding )
Pretty obvious it don't stack up
I am here and am happy to speak about matters relating to the album that illustrate my objective ( to put our side and to show the extent of love , creativity and thought that went into it ) but I'm not interested in filling out the nerdish fanboy detail that doesn't relate to this . Hope you understand that
Peace to all ( free tofu / LSD and anti vacc information sheets too ) Ah shit. My username username is working against me! Maybe I'll go back to LSD JESUS. Yeahhh... I reckon he'll like that. So, * ahem * let me rephrase my question: "Gaz, from your mind bending perspective could you illustrate how your extent of love, creativity and thought propagated your brain, channelled through the ether, rode astral plane and TELL ME THE GODDAMN TRACKLIST YOU DIRTY HIPPY!!" Peace & love, LSD JESUS
|
|
|
Post by mossy on Feb 15, 2017 11:03:45 GMT -5
Gaz posted a "note to Oasis fans". There's even a nod to my LSD/anti-vaccine joke (For the record, nothing against tofu here. Tofu is awesome!)
-----
A note to OASIS fans :
I'm aware of the fact you're analyzing my words . I only became aware of it recently when someone posted a link . Reading through your forum has inspired in me belief even you have been short changed and certainly helps dissolve this idea that people are all ignorant to simply turn everything into sides / teams / petty wars .... In fact it's been very informative and I'm happy to see actually most of you are delighted to have insight into this album
I'd love to talk positively of all the wonderful aspects of this album , but y'see I cannot win since you'd think I was hyping it and you up and that somehow its bullshit or self propaganda so unfortunately only anecdotes that illustrate my objective are relevant
What is my objective ? Unlike Noel who has daily access to the media and huge power to create and build propaganda / stories to suit his end over time ( I used to do it as FSOL - literally create my own propaganda building on stuff from previous interviews ( cos it's only when you read it you start realizing how it's coming across and whether you like it or not ? So talking through the press is also a very creative process ) So back to the point , we run a small label and don't even hire press people so press is very scant and we have no power so redressing the way Noel has done this for several years is impossible - his word has become the facts of it !
I can't reverse them but I have realized I am absolutely free to speak . This world relies on silence to support the bullshit. My silence has been bought by the lure of future work / commerce / reputation / other prospective music to be released and it's only by saying ' to fuck ' with the consequences to that I can truly give my voice
I have decided my voice is the most important thing NOT these other considerations which buy silence .
Noel is aided by the silence of many . It does him no favors . I'm NOT playing the celeb game and conspiring anymore .
Yes it's detailed , it's 2 years ( more when you consider chasing yesterday and watching our work constantly being utilized in part and our conversations about that )
If you think the detail makes us untrustworthy then that's for you to assess . If you prefer the dismissive silence of your ' chief ' that is also your preference . You don't learn anything by that tho do you ? If that inspires you that's your preference , but it's not my bag . I'm used to communication , complexity & honesty to arrive at the finish line and I was prepared for anything !!
All that happened was we finished stage 1 of a great album , looked up to start the fun stuff of actively hearing opinions ( strong ones we hoped !!) and collaborating with them but he was off to tour an album we never even knew about !
It is only my side . But it's a side that reveals the most since bar a month in the studio and mixing the new tracks only ( shoot a hole / Mexican / right stuff ) I'm not convinced they did anything more HE DID NONE OF THE WORK so he doesn't really have much to say If you'd like to assume the rest was shit that is also your prerogative but the question remains why were we scheduled to remix the whole of ( whatever WE wanted ) from CHASING YESTERDAY then And why did we work for 2 years And listen to his press conference and the way he talks about it ? at what stage did it become shit ?? Oh yeh - when I started putting our side with our limited powers ( read the previous post where I detail how I wasn't in control of this and how I bailed responding )
Pretty obvious it don't stack up
I am here and am happy to speak about matters relating to the album that illustrate my objective ( to put our side and to show the extent of love , creativity and thought that went into it ) but I'm not interested in filling out the nerdish fanboy detail that doesn't relate to this . Hope you understand that
Peace to all ( free tofu / LSD and anti vacc information sheets too ) Ah shit. My username username is working against me! Maybe I'll go back to LSD JESUS. Yeahhh... I reckon he'll like that. So, * ahem * let me rephrase my question: "Gaz, from your mind bending perspective could you illustrate how your extent of love, creativity and thought propagated your brain, channelled through the ether, rode astral plane and TELL ME THE GODDAMN TRACKLIST YOU DIRTY HIPPY!!" Peace & love, LSD JESUS Going out on a limb here, but given for a few years now Gaz has said Noel stole their track list, I'm going to hazard a guess it was along the lines of: 1. "Everybody's on the Run" 2. "Dream On" 3. "If I Had a Gun..." 4. "The Death of You and Me" 5. "(I Wanna Live in a Dream in My) Record Machine" 6. "AKA... What a Life!" 7. "Soldier Boys and Jesus Freaks" 8. "AKA... Broken Arrow" 9. "(Stranded On) The Wrong Beach" 10. "Stop the Clocks" ;-P
|
|
|
Post by andymorris on Feb 15, 2017 12:57:29 GMT -5
Gaz is bastard#1 then haha i bet he's hiding some of Noel's sessions in the recordings that will only be heard if you eat tofu while playing the record backward at 27.5 rpm. Because 33 is too mainstream. ^February 2016Damn, Gaz did a proper read through as well hahaha NEVER trust anyone who eats Tofu. NEVER TBH, on the matter, if Noel stole stuff, SUE. If not, shut up.
|
|
|
Post by The Milkman & The Riverman on Feb 15, 2017 14:51:07 GMT -5
Am i the only one who never gave a single fuck about this AA thing ?
I also think as much as Noel emerges as a conservative pussy in the whole story AA just can't get over the fact that he aborted their sessions and really are taking this 2 year drama a bit too far. The thing about the Right Stuff and The Mexican ? They were working on the arrangements and production, as far as i understand, that he eventually didn't use. Even if he got inspired during the sessions with them, he recorded it, produced it and wrote it by himself. Is a guitar chord pattern and a vocal line around it a song ? I don't know, ask Live Forever about it. That's how Noel works.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 16:34:29 GMT -5
Am i the only one who never gave a single fuck about this AA thing ? I also think as much as Noel emerges as a conservative pussy in the whole story AA just can't get over the fact that he aborted their sessions and really are taking this 2 year drama a bit too far. The thing about the Right Stuff and The Mexican ? They were working on the arrangements and production, as far as i understand, that he eventually didn't use. Even if he got inspired during the sessions with them, he recorded it, produced it and wrote it by himself. Is a guitar chord pattern and a vocal line around it a song ? I don't know, ask Live Forever about it. That's how Noel works. I think AA and Noel have a fundamental difference in what they think constitutes writing a song. Based on what I've read I tend to side with Noel on that. Once you've strummed it and come up with a melody it's yours imo. What I side with AA on is the pathetic way Noel's treated them ever since his management convinced him to do HFB. The only reason he tried to drag their name through the mud was to divert attention from his own refusal to release something different after he found out he could make Oasis albums (minus Liam) for years to come. That's his prerogative tbf, but at least pay the guys who've devoted a load of time to this something vaguely fair. I suspect that it's not about what it costs, but that paying a significant amount of money would legimitise it in some way. That doesn't fit with the narrative he's spun about AA producing absolute shite (which he proclaimed as genius a matter of months before HFB came out). They say "never meet your heroes". In Noel's case I suspect there's a lot in that.
|
|
|
Post by mossy on Feb 15, 2017 16:52:22 GMT -5
Am i the only one who never gave a single fuck about this AA thing ? I also think as much as Noel emerges as a conservative pussy in the whole story AA just can't get over the fact that he aborted their sessions and really are taking this 2 year drama a bit too far. The thing about the Right Stuff and The Mexican ? They were working on the arrangements and production, as far as i understand, that he eventually didn't use. Even if he got inspired during the sessions with them, he recorded it, produced it and wrote it by himself. Is a guitar chord pattern and a vocal line around it a song ? I don't know, ask Live Forever about it. That's how Noel works. Once you've strummed it and come up with a melody it's yours imo. I think their point is that on Right Stuff, Mexican (and Crimson Rambler) Noel didn't strum it. They created something first then took it to him to strum over. Without having been in the room witnessing who recorded what and read what was stipulated in the contract regards intellectual property it's impossible for us to say whether they truly deserve writing credits or not. But they clearly believe they do deserve writing credits and we know Noel has brazenly stolen from collaborators in the past (lyrically and musically). And there are people saying if they truly wrote the songs then they should sue, but it's clearly not as simple as that. Noel will be able to afford better lawyers, it'll be hard to prove either way and maybe they just can't be arsed with the hastle for the sake of a few quid when they've got their own projects to be getting on with.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 17:02:13 GMT -5
Once you've strummed it and come up with a melody it's yours imo. I think their point is that on Right Stuff, Mexican (and Crimson Rambler) Noel didn't strum it. They created something first then took it to him to strum over. Without having been in the room witnessing who recorded what and read what was stipulated in the contract regards intellectual property it's impossible for us to say whether they truly deserve writing credits or not. I don't know. Impression I'm getting with those two is that Noel came up with something, they spent a lot of time filling it out, then Noel took it all back and didn't give them the amount of credit they think they deserve for the bit between him strumming something on an acoustic guitar and the versions that ended up on Chasing Yesterday. Like I say, I suspect it's a difference in opinion on what constitutes writing a song. But totally take the point on Noel stealing before. A little bit of my love for Oasis died the first time I heard Feel The Pain.
|
|