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Post by spaneli on Feb 15, 2017 17:05:12 GMT -5
I think their point is that on Right Stuff, Mexican (and Crimson Rambler) Noel didn't strum it. They created something first then took it to him to strum over. Without having been in the room witnessing who recorded what and read what was stipulated in the contract regards intellectual property it's impossible for us to say whether they truly deserve writing credits or not. I don't know. Impression I'm getting with those two is that Noel came up with something, they spent a lot of time filling it out, then Noel took it all back and didn't give them the amount of credit they think they deserve for the bit between him strumming something on an acoustic guitar and the versions that ended up on Chasing Yesterday. Like I say, I suspect it's a difference in opinion on what constitutes writing a song. But totally take the point on Noel stealing before. A little bit of my love for Oasis died the first time I heard Feel The Pain. That's about what they were saying. In one of the posts Gaz says that Noel thinks that the person who strums it and sings it, is the sole songwriter.
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Post by mossy on Feb 15, 2017 17:08:55 GMT -5
I think their point is that on Right Stuff, Mexican (and Crimson Rambler) Noel didn't strum it. They created something first then took it to him to strum over. Without having been in the room witnessing who recorded what and read what was stipulated in the contract regards intellectual property it's impossible for us to say whether they truly deserve writing credits or not. Impression I'm getting with those two is that Noel came up with something, they spent a lot of time filling it out... I think your impression is correct for the majority of the material, but their claim for co-writes is only on the tracks I mentioned: Right Stuff, Mexican and the unreleased and unheard Crimson Rambler. So in those cases Noel wasn't the person who came up with something first - they were. I agree they definitely have a different opinion of what constitutes being a writer. They seem to want to credit every man and his dog! Seriously, who credits a drummer ;-)
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Post by spaneli on Feb 15, 2017 17:20:48 GMT -5
Impression I'm getting with those two is that Noel came up with something, they spent a lot of time filling it out... I think your impression is correct for the majority of the material, but their claim for co-writes is only on the tracks I mentioned: Right Stuff, Mexican and the unreleased and unheard Crimson Rambler. So in those cases Noel wasn't the person who came up with something first - they were. I agree they definitely have a different opinion of what constitutes being a writer. They seem to want to credit every man and his dog! Seriously, who credits a drummer ;-) Gaz specifically said this: "We took months of extra time writing ( WRITING !!) NOT doing what we were contracted to do which was to produce HIS tracks but we believed in the MEXICAN and the RIGHT STUFF oh yeh and SHOOT A HOLE ( he never even knew we were doing that and had zero to do with it ZERO ZERO ZERO and there were 1/2 others which'll probably be on his new album no doubt the way this is panning out" And "I will say this , I find it incredibly arrogant that strumming chords and singing some lyrics be considered by anyone as 100 % the song . It's very much the outlook of a guitar man and conveniently misses out the last 30 years of songwriting evolution . Where would Donna Summer be without Georgio's backing or Morrissey without MARR ( but then that's guitars innit so maybe in his world only guitar backing counts ?? Kinda figures but it ain't right ) I must point out that we work similarly with countless other musicians including Mr Paul Weller and not one of them upholds this view and in every instance we are credited and included as writers ( i.e. Receive publishing splits which means we share the revenue when the song is used or played anywhere - this is our very bread and butter when figures like 4K /8k are being bandied about for two solid months work in our fourties both with children ??!!!! ) so this was particularly hurtful especially in light of how ( initially ) reluctant he was to try this approach or in fact , to work on them or to see how important these two tracks were to provide him with something a little bit different to pepper his album . This was solely our initiative to do this and went well outside of our commitments as producer ( we could have just worked on his material and volunteered nothing ? )" To say that you believe in two tracks, from my understanding, it seems like the Mexican and The Right Stuff existed prior to Noel working with AA. The AA added additional parts while Noel went on tour, and continued working on the track. Then Noel picked-up the bits that he liked, and stripped away what he didn't, and used that as the basis for the versions on CY. I think Gaz and co expected writing credits because they considered what they did as part of the writing process, not that they were the origins of those tracks.
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Post by mossy on Feb 15, 2017 17:26:03 GMT -5
I think your impression is correct for the majority of the material, but their claim for co-writes is only on the tracks I mentioned: Right Stuff, Mexican and the unreleased and unheard Crimson Rambler. So in those cases Noel wasn't the person who came up with something first - they were. I agree they definitely have a different opinion of what constitutes being a writer. They seem to want to credit every man and his dog! Seriously, who credits a drummer ;-) Gaz specifically said this: "We took months of extra time writing ( WRITING !!) NOT doing what we were contracted to do which was to produce HIS tracks but we believed in the MEXICAN and the RIGHT STUFF oh yeh and SHOOT A HOLE ( he never even knew we were doing that and had zero to do with it ZERO ZERO ZERO and there were 1/2 others which'll probably be on his new album no doubt the way this is panning out" And "I will say this , I find it incredibly arrogant that strumming chords and singing some lyrics be considered by anyone as 100 % the song . It's very much the outlook of a guitar man and conveniently misses out the last 30 years of songwriting evolution . Where would Donna Summer be without Georgio's backing or Morrissey without MARR ( but then that's guitars innit so maybe in his world only guitar backing counts ?? Kinda figures but it ain't right ) I must point out that we work similarly with countless other musicians including Mr Paul Weller and not one of them upholds this view and in every instance we are credited and included as writers ( i.e. Receive publishing splits which means we share the revenue when the song is used or played anywhere - this is our very bread and butter when figures like 4K /8k are being bandied about for two solid months work in our fourties both with children ??!!!! ) so this was particularly hurtful especially in light of how ( initially ) reluctant he was to try this approach or in fact , to work on them or to see how important these two tracks were to provide him with something a little bit different to pepper his album . This was solely our initiative to do this and went well outside of our commitments as producer ( we could have just worked on his material and volunteered nothing ? )" To say that you believe in two tracks, from my understanding, it seems like the Mexican and The Right Stuff existed prior to Noel working with AA. The AA added additional parts while Noel went on tour, and continued working on the track. Then Noel picked-up the bits that he liked, and stripped away what he didn't, and used that as the basis for the versions on CY. I think Gaz and co expected writing credits because they considered what they did as part of the writing process, not that they were the origins of those tracks. Where above does it explicitly say Noel took Right Stuff and Mexican to AA? I've read Gaz before say the AA "originated" those two songs. His, uh, unprecise language doesn't help of course but I can still read the above as him saying he started the writing of those tracks. He's not expressed a want for writing credits for anything else. Old quote: -"it's only a peep hole i'm offering here.....tracks 6 & 8 were unique cos we originated them because we felt his demos were all mid paced , insular & guitar based songwriting and we wanted and knew that people ( even his fans ) would want & expect more diversity on his solo album,( Chemical Brothers hits/ KRAUTROCK / Monstrous Psych Bubble / FLOYD ' Dark Side of the moon ' constant comparisons by him in the media made it EVEN more imperative . I'm glad he sees the wisdom of that an album later . . . "(On The Right Stuff and the Mexican)"
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Post by spaneli on Feb 15, 2017 17:41:35 GMT -5
Gaz specifically said this: "We took months of extra time writing ( WRITING !!) NOT doing what we were contracted to do which was to produce HIS tracks but we believed in the MEXICAN and the RIGHT STUFF oh yeh and SHOOT A HOLE ( he never even knew we were doing that and had zero to do with it ZERO ZERO ZERO and there were 1/2 others which'll probably be on his new album no doubt the way this is panning out" And "I will say this , I find it incredibly arrogant that strumming chords and singing some lyrics be considered by anyone as 100 % the song . It's very much the outlook of a guitar man and conveniently misses out the last 30 years of songwriting evolution . Where would Donna Summer be without Georgio's backing or Morrissey without MARR ( but then that's guitars innit so maybe in his world only guitar backing counts ?? Kinda figures but it ain't right ) I must point out that we work similarly with countless other musicians including Mr Paul Weller and not one of them upholds this view and in every instance we are credited and included as writers ( i.e. Receive publishing splits which means we share the revenue when the song is used or played anywhere - this is our very bread and butter when figures like 4K /8k are being bandied about for two solid months work in our fourties both with children ??!!!! ) so this was particularly hurtful especially in light of how ( initially ) reluctant he was to try this approach or in fact , to work on them or to see how important these two tracks were to provide him with something a little bit different to pepper his album . This was solely our initiative to do this and went well outside of our commitments as producer ( we could have just worked on his material and volunteered nothing ? )" To say that you believe in two tracks, from my understanding, it seems like the Mexican and The Right Stuff existed prior to Noel working with AA. The AA added additional parts while Noel went on tour, and continued working on the track. Then Noel picked-up the bits that he liked, and stripped away what he didn't, and used that as the basis for the versions on CY. I think Gaz and co expected writing credits because they considered what they did as part of the writing process, not that they were the origins of those tracks. Where above does it explicitly say Noel took Right Stuff and Mexican to AA? I've read Gaz before say the AA "originated" those two songs. His, uh, unprecise language doesn't help of course but I can still read the above as him saying he started the writing of those tracks. He's not expressed a want for writing credits for anything else. Old quote: -"it's only a peep hole i'm offering here.....tracks 6 & 8 were unique cos we originated them because we felt his demos were all mid paced , insular & guitar based songwriting and we wanted and knew that people ( even his fans ) would want & expect more diversity on his solo album,( Chemical Brothers hits/ KRAUTROCK / Monstrous Psych Bubble / FLOYD ' Dark Side of the moon ' constant comparisons by him in the media made it EVEN more imperative . I'm glad he sees the wisdom of that an album later . . . "(On The Right Stuff and the Mexican)" Even what you're quoting seems imprecise I can't actually tell what he's saying. His grammar is all over the place. Like when he says "originated," what does that mean? Does it mean that they demoed it and Noel played over the demo? That they demoed and Noel took inspiration and made his own version?
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Post by mossy on Feb 15, 2017 17:42:46 GMT -5
Where above does it explicitly say Noel took Right Stuff and Mexican to AA? I've read Gaz before say the AA "originated" those two songs. His, uh, unprecise language doesn't help of course but I can still read the above as him saying he started the writing of those tracks. He's not expressed a want for writing credits for anything else. Old quote: -"it's only a peep hole i'm offering here.....tracks 6 & 8 were unique cos we originated them because we felt his demos were all mid paced , insular & guitar based songwriting and we wanted and knew that people ( even his fans ) would want & expect more diversity on his solo album,( Chemical Brothers hits/ KRAUTROCK / Monstrous Psych Bubble / FLOYD ' Dark Side of the moon ' constant comparisons by him in the media made it EVEN more imperative . I'm glad he sees the wisdom of that an album later . . . "(On The Right Stuff and the Mexican)" Even what you're quoting seems imprecise I can't actually tell what he's saying. His grammar is all over the place. Like when he says "originated," what does that mean? Does it mean that they demoed it and Noel played over the demo? That they demoed and Noel took inspiration and made his own version? That's my interpretation. They demoed something first then took it to Noel. Otherwise they'd be wanting writing credits for everything right?
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Post by mossy on Feb 15, 2017 17:50:32 GMT -5
That's my interpretation. They demoed something first then took it to Noel. Otherwise they'd be wanting writing credits for everything right? Well they would want a writing credit in either case. People have won court cases based on the thought that they provided inspiration to a track, somewhat like Pharrel's Happy and Marvin Gaye's Got to Give It Up court case. The two have almost no notes in common, but the "feel" of both made it so that Gaye's family won their suit. My point was they're NOT asking for writing credits for Stop The Clocks etc therefore the only songs they're claiming to have "originated" are Mexican and Right Stuff (and I think Rambler too). The Gaye ruling was only recent and bloody stupid in my opinion. Anyone can sue anyone with that precedent!
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Post by spaneli on Feb 15, 2017 17:54:37 GMT -5
I mentioned earlier, that Gaz's thought process on songwriting credit is really the second of two schools of thought. There's a significant amount of people who believe that the person who strums on the guitar and writes the lyrics, owns 100% of the song as the songwriter. Then, there are some that do believe that what the producer does, is a form of songwriting, especially if they're helping with arrangement. It's incumbent upon both the artist and the producer to create an agreement, prior to working to with each other, of how crediting will occur. For my album, the producer I got, I had known for 10 years. We're extremely good friends. I've known him since high school. And we didn't record a single note until we had come to an agreement on credits. Now, I'm as independent and low budget as it gets as a songwriter, and I made an agreement before I started working with a producer. And he made an agreement before we started, and he's as DIY as it gets. How did Gaz not have that conversation with Noel? It feels like a bit of naivete and idiocy. When you're talking about the possibility of hundreds of thousands of pounds, or maybe even millions, that might be a conversation you should have. Not just out of a monetary outlook, but from an artistic outlook too. As an artist, you should be intelligent enough to protect your work. If you work with a songwriter and you don't have a crediting agreement already written up, then you deserved to get played. Sorry. But that's just simple recording 101. As a songwriter, I would never work with someone until we came to an agreement on crediting. It's fair to yourself. It's fair to the person you're working with. And it really is a question of how much you want this to work out. Now, that also goes for Noel. He should have had that conversation too. But I put a little bit more blame on the producer, just because, a producer asking for writing credits, goes against "conventionality." *takes long drag on spliff* "We didn't read the contract man! It was just about the music!" Joking aside Gaz did mention that they'd sorted out the contract to give hem permission to use Noel songs on future mix compilations. I suspect they only bought new songs to the table late in the game, after the straight HFBs had been announced and it looked like their album might get canned. They didn't think their album was different enough from straight HFBs (as it had exactly the same track order). So maybe bringing new songs was out of desperation to keep the project going..? Still, writing credits should come up in any contract agreement, whether you envision bringing new ideas to the table or not. Like, from Gaz's writing, it seems like he resents the entire idea of Noel not giving more writing credits. I mean, they only went after two tracks, but that might also been because those were the most egregious and obvious examples of writing credit. But it appeared from some of his quotes, that he believes that he's entitled to more writing credits that the Right Stuff or The Mexican. If not? Then why bring up Donna Summers?
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Post by mossy on Feb 15, 2017 18:17:42 GMT -5
*takes long drag on spliff* "We didn't read the contract man! It was just about the music!" Joking aside Gaz did mention that they'd sorted out the contract to give hem permission to use Noel songs on future mix compilations. I suspect they only bought new songs to the table late in the game, after the straight HFBs had been announced and it looked like their album might get canned. They didn't think their album was different enough from straight HFBs (as it had exactly the same track order). So maybe bringing new songs was out of desperation to keep the project going..? Still, writing credits should come up in any contract agreement, whether you envision bringing new ideas to the table or not. Like, from Gaz's writing, it seems like he resents the entire idea of Noel not giving more writing credits. I mean, they only went after two tracks, but that might also been because those were the most egregious and obvious examples of writing credit. But it appeared from some of his quotes, that he believes that he's entitled to more writing credits that the Right Stuff or The Mexican. If not? Then why bring up Donna Summers? I agree it seems fairly naive. Had he never heard Cigarettes and Alcohol? Or Shakermarker? Or Step Out? Or Mucky Fingers? Etc. Possibly not tbh. They clearly move in different circles and have looser arrangements with their normal collaboraters!
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Post by matt on Feb 15, 2017 19:15:10 GMT -5
Once you've strummed it and come up with a melody it's yours imo. I think their point is that on Right Stuff, Mexican (and Crimson Rambler) Noel didn't strum it. They created something first then took it to him to strum over. Without having been in the room witnessing who recorded what and read what was stipulated in the contract regards intellectual property it's impossible for us to say whether they truly deserve writing credits or not. But they clearly believe they do deserve writing credits and we know Noel has brazenly stolen from collaborators in the past (lyrically and musically). And there are people saying if they truly wrote the songs then they should sue, but it's clearly not as simple as that. Noel will be able to afford better lawyers, it'll be hard to prove either way and maybe they just can't be arsed with the hastle for the sake of a few quid when they've got their own projects to be getting on with. Yeah, essentially they created most of the backing track. Noel's main duty was to lay a melody and lyrics on top.
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on Feb 16, 2017 7:11:03 GMT -5
Facebook post from Gaz:
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Post by The Escapist on Feb 16, 2017 8:31:56 GMT -5
...Is there any reason why the AA can't just post stuff on Soundcloud or something?
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Post by mossy on Feb 16, 2017 8:33:15 GMT -5
...Is there any reason why the AA can't just post stuff on Soundcloud or something? They don't own the rights, The Chief does.
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Post by Doc Lobster on Feb 16, 2017 9:22:27 GMT -5
I thought about writing a comment about The Mexican and The Right Stuff but was waiting since I expected Gaz would tell us a bit more about them. I wasn't wrong.
For the record, I've always agreed with the fact that AA deserved songwriting credits on the two songs, especially for The Mexican (more on that later). We know Noel can be a dick and, from a legal point of view, it's pretty clear who's on the right here.
(Note to Gaz: this is why you come to a songwriting agreement before the stuff is going to be released. How many bands have split over that crap? Not everyone is Paul Weller, who, by the way, I hold in much higher steem than Noel as everyone should).
There's a lot on The Mexican that suggests AA played a major role in creating the song, such as the riff and the nananas. I'm a bit sceptical about the claim that The Right Stuff was all their doing (in the version we know, of course). First of all, notice how very little Noel has told about the creation of The Mexican, whereas he's been more clear about the AA coming looping the three chords from another track and building stuff on it, most of which Noel claims was removed for the released version. Likewise, we get a lot of details from Gaz on The Mexican, but an ambiguous comment on how they "originated" The Right Stuff.
Let's analyse The Right Stuff a little bit. We got the three-chord acoustic guitar loop, drums, bass, the bass clarinet, some piano notes (with the same sound as on The Dying of the Light), jazzy chords on a keyboard with a brass sound, a single guitar note with tremolo, Stacey's guitar solo, some percussion, backing vocals and Noel. We know the bass clarinet and Joy Rose's backing vocals were recorded during the CY sessions. I would assume that that's also the case for the eerie piano since it's got the same sound as on other tracks. The melody, lyrics and bass line seem to be Noel's contributions. Stacey's solo might have been recorded with AA but that's clearly his creation (sounds like he improvised it). So what's left is the acoustic guitar loop (confirmed by both parties as being AA's idea), the jazzy brass keyboard chords (which I would also assign to AA), the drums (played by Jeremy Stacey and probably from the CY sessions), the single tremolo note and maybe the general structure of the track including the chord change during the bridge. With this in mind, it would be difficult to claim that The Right Stuff, as we know it, is totally AA's doing. Before somebody jumps on me, let me reiterate that they have every right to claim songwriting credits, though.
My point with this isn't to defend Noel, who we all know has clearly screwed the AA guys, but to point out that we need to be sceptical about what we hear when a conflict like this happens. Even if the truth is closer to Gaz's side, take everything you read on the Internet with a grain of salt.
The lesson: no matter what Gaz says, you always need to come to a songwriting credit agreement if you don't want to get screwed or give people the chance to say you are screwing them. Popular music history (especially when it comes to jazz) is full of stories like these and in the end we are deprived of some very good collaborations because of arguments over money and ownership.
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Post by spaneli on Feb 16, 2017 10:12:32 GMT -5
I thought about writing a comment about The Mexican and The Right Stuff but was waiting since I expected Gaz would tell us a bit more about them. I wasn't wrong.
For the record, I've always agreed with the fact that AA deserved songwriting credits on the two songs, especially for The Mexican (more on that later). We know Noel can be a dick and, from a legal point of view, it's pretty clear who's on the right here.
(Note to Gaz: this is why you come to a songwriting agreement before the stuff is going to be released. How many bands have split over that crap? Not everyone is Paul Weller, who, by the way, I hold in much higher steem than Noel as everyone should).
There's a lot on The Mexican that suggests AA played a major role in creating the song, such as the riff and the nananas. I'm a bit sceptical about the claim that The Right Stuff was all their doing (in the version we know, of course). First of all, notice how very little Noel has told about the creation of The Mexican, whereas he's been more clear about the AA coming looping the three chords from another track and building stuff on it, most of which Noel claims was removed for the released version. Likewise, we get a lot of details from Gaz on The Mexican, but an ambiguous comment on how they "originated" The Right Stuff.
Let's analyse The Right Stuff a little bit. We got the three-chord acoustic guitar loop, drums, bass, the bass clarinet, some piano notes (with the same sound as on The Dying of the Light), jazzy chords on a keyboard with a brass sound, a single guitar note with tremolo, Stacey's guitar solo, some percussion, backing vocals and Noel. We know the bass clarinet and Joy Rose's backing vocals were recorded during the CY sessions. I would assume that that's also the case for the eerie piano since it's got the same sound as on other tracks. The melody, lyrics and bass line seem to be Noel's contributions. Stacey's solo might have been recorded with AA but that's clearly his creation (sounds like he improvised it). So what's left is the acoustic guitar loop (confirmed by both parties as being AA's idea), the jazzy brass keyboard chords (which I would also assign to AA), the drums (played by Jeremy Stacey and probably from the CY sessions), the single tremolo note and maybe the general structure of the track including the chord change during the bridge. With this in mind, it would be difficult to claim that The Right Stuff, as we know it, is totally AA's doing. Before somebody jumps on me, let me reiterate that they have every right to claim songwriting credits, though.
My point with this isn't to defend Noel, who we all know has clearly screwed the AA guys, but to point out that we need to be sceptical about what we hear when a conflict like this happens. Even if the truth is closer to Gaz's side, take everything you read on the Internet with a grain of salt.
The lesson: no matter what Gaz says, you always need to come to a songwriting credit agreement if you don't want to get screwed or give people the chance to say you are screwing them. Popular music history (especially when it comes to jazz) is full of stories like these and in the end we are deprived of some very good collaborations because of arguments over money and ownership. Man, this. This.
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Feb 16, 2017 17:46:55 GMT -5
Am I the only one who's seriously lost a lot of respect for Noel as a person and in a musical sense in the last few years? Sure the albums are still good, but as a guy and as a creative artist I'm seriously going off him fast. I'll always love oasis but Noel has come way down in my estimations since the split. He kind of built this narrative that Liam was to blame for Oasis's regression and becoming derivative as the years went on - he was always giving off the impression he was somewhat shackled. But Noel's solo career has done absolutely nothing to suggest he's been held back by constantly producing mid tempo guitar plods. Granted, Liam has done nothing either by peddling his John Lennon tribute act so perhaps us fans just ought to come to the conclusion that they are both as unadventurous and bland as the other these days. Yet Noel has shown us repeatedly that he IS capable of trying other things, such as his collaborations with the Chemical Brothers, Teotihuacan, some of his own remixes, some other stuff.. That is the frustrating thing! We know it's in there. Could it be, that perhaps the one who is holding back Noel, is Noel?
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Post by Doc Lobster on Feb 17, 2017 4:12:44 GMT -5
The bit about destroying the master is obviously bullshit, but I would pay to see Noel trying to destroy an album's master. I wonder what method he would use. Since stuff is recorded digitally nowadays, I would bet on him giving the cat a USB stick hidden inside a meatball.
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Post by Doc Lobster on Feb 17, 2017 7:14:28 GMT -5
I think one reason for scrapping it not discussed here much and not mentioned by Noel would most probably also be that the AA record would have been unplayable live for Noel. I agree that could have been an issue if he'd released it as his main album, but once he started to describe it as more of a companion remix album never playing it live would have been fine really. And where there's a will there's a way! Although I can't imagine Mr Rigidly Rehearsed Setlists ever trying it...
I listened to the first 15 minutes of this just to hear what the guys could do live and, even though they play well and it looks like they're having fun, it reinforces my view that there's very little substance to their music. After reading Gaz's rants about out-there stuff and artistic procedures and then comparing to the music on that video I'm thinking he might be as guilty as our Noel of delivering a product that doesn't stand up to the hype they create. I would suggest that AA need a good songwriter (*cough cough*), but they've proved they're capable of creating wonderful music as FSOL, so maybe it's just that they can't pull the psychedelic stuff off.
I think this goes to show the dangers of creating art with the preconceived idea that it should fit a certain aesthetic or label.
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Post by mossy on Feb 17, 2017 7:25:13 GMT -5
I agree that could have been an issue if he'd released it as his main album, but once he started to describe it as more of a companion remix album never playing it live would have been fine really. And where there's a will there's a way! Although I can't imagine Mr Rigidly Rehearsed Setlists ever trying it...
I listened to the first 15 minutes of this just to hear what the guys could do live and, even though they play well and it looks like they're having fun, it reinforces my view that there's very little substance to their music. After reading Gaz's rants about out-there stuff and artistic procedures and then comparing to the music on that video I'm thinking he might be as guilty as our Noel of delivering a product that doesn't stand up to the hype they create. I would suggest that AA need a good songwriter (*cough cough*), but they've proved they're capable of creating wonderful music as FSOL, so maybe it's just that they can't pull the psychedelic stuff off.
I think this goes to show the dangers of creating art with the preconceived idea that it should fit a certain aesthetic or label.
From comments I've seen him post on Facebook Gaz doesn't seem to like playing live. The AA only played a handful of shows back in the early noughties.
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Post by andymorris on Feb 17, 2017 12:58:03 GMT -5
I simply don't understand working with AA for 18 months and *never* telling them that he had this other thing going with Sardy. Was it based on fear? Money? Why not really make two separate records, with Sardy's being the mainstream version and no crossover between the two? I generally love Noel, but this account from Gaz (which I believe) casts him in such a mercenary light, which he himself constantly affirms. "Just go to the show and buy a tee shirt." It's funny for awhile, but probably near the truth. It's all about the money, which keeps a lid on how far out there he will go. I remember articles about BHN before it came out, making it sound like it would be the Revolver of the 90's. It turned out horribly. Imagine that he instead had the Chemicals produce it and did something really cool. He always goes up to the edge and then backs away. I think his new record will be good, but nothing too far out. There was an interview with Noel in the last few years, I'll try to find it, but he said Sara can't believe how little he cares about other people. It's like there's something wrong with his personality - he doesn't give a f*** about people. See > childhood. I think Noel understood from an early age that he can't trust anyone (because of his father mainly). This can be seen as "something wrong with his personality" and he probably went too far with the AA, but tbh, that's how Oasis got so big. That and the talent. Most of the time, though, it's true, you can't trust people. Especially in the music business. Noel's always been an insecure person and launching a solo career probably enhanced this side of his personnality. that doesn't mean i agree fully with all that, personnaly, i'd have told them i was recording something on the side and that only one would get released. That would have put even more pressure on them ehehe In the end it's a business and if he was not satisfied with it it was his right not to release it. Something must have happened in the studio or something, maybe he discovered they were dicks just like him. I cant remember one example of a musical genius not being a dick in the studio though. Macca was, Lennon was, others are. Music is not a democracy, when you write something, you want it to sound as it is in your head. I fully understand that, i've recorded stuff and played shows, and when it's not right, it's not right.
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Post by morning_rain on Feb 18, 2017 15:24:36 GMT -5
Has Gaz revealed what the original tracklist was? I assume it was HFB + the mexican and the right stuff?
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Post by Doc Lobster on Feb 18, 2017 15:46:00 GMT -5
Has Gaz revealed what the original tracklist was? I assume it was HFB + the mexican and the right stuff? Minus What a Life plus Ballad of the Mighty I.
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Post by theseventwenty on Feb 19, 2017 16:56:18 GMT -5
Interesting to hear that Gem played on some early back versions of HFB stuff. Wonder if he did that during Oasis times, or when Beady Eye was happening or what... "He mullered the Mexican ... it was a honky tonk piano loose Stones / Monday's ' gimme shelter ' with a great groove and sonics before he quo'd it up and stripped it of any character 😀😀but he's more keen to make sure he keeps 100 % ( in his mind that simply equates to dropping all evidence of that person as if that wipes the original backing track and sole reason the track exists in the first place - it doesn't ! Thinking about it ... I wanted to use great sounds on previous mixes which he was dead set against ( the mighty I original guitar is by Strangeboy and totally amazing and I suspect cutting it out meant he didn't have to acknowledge help / writing / collaboration cos why else drop it ? ...was a rare moment of liberated brilliance probably written at a very early pivotal jamming stage ( so I was told ) .. Also similarly with files from Gem and co ... I wasn't allowed to use even though as a sample freak they clearly deserved their place above and beyond what he'd recorded cos they were great and had character .... I'm getting it now .... uses people to write , then piggy backs & discards taking his chords and lyric to the next producer Yes ... noise coming from his camp is ALL about writing IN THE STUDIO to new backing tracks ( exactly like Mexican / Right Stuff which was first time he'd ever worked like that and boy he resisted ) and DH is saying traditionally NG is mid paced and not much fun ... It's like US talking , another campaign built on our initiative ... selling him according to answering our critique ... I've written a song which kinda sums it up , it's called ' the man who went to extraordinary lengths to remain the same ' 😀😀😀 it's a psych classic 🍄🍄🍄🌻🌈✌️"
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Post by theseventwenty on Feb 19, 2017 17:01:28 GMT -5
And another little interesting snippet on the workflow in general and sound of this album:
"Gaz Hunter - shoot a hole / Mexican / right stuff and a coupla others were stuff we initiated to balance the fact everything else was his tracks , his structure ( bar the odd extended intro / mid 8 / wig out ) and needed material more challenging to make HIS FIRST SOLO album satisfying .... At the same time it was made for middle England with a sting in the tail .... It totally satisfied me too ... it was a clever game ... ideas maximized , songs coherent but retaining what he's good at ( songs !!!!!) It was too clever perhaps for ' MR WAY OUT ' ( we weren't interested in being way out , just getting what suited the tracks and it being good , working and interesting ! ... Noel ,once he'd decided on that wall of acoustic Americanized strum which he evidently thought was his ' commercial ' statement only had place for 8 min sprawl that gave him experimental cred from us ( especially since he sold the first album amid the expectation he was doing something different with us ) In other words We were used to pepper his campaign so he could just do what he always does ... This is the real reason you'll never hear our RECORD MACHINE or 'Death of '
The Beatles / Floyd don't have alternative versions of the main song , once he decided that shite IF I HAD A GUN was it he'll literally bury gold so as to not muddy the waters of his ' official version '"
Surprised none of you have clocked that he chooses shite largely instrumental remixes that don't challenge his song too much . Our Falling Down is rare in that it had the song in it !
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Post by spaneli on Feb 19, 2017 17:09:00 GMT -5
Interesting to hear that Gem played on some early back versions of HFB stuff. Wonder if he did that during Oasis times, or when Beady Eye was happening or what... "He mullered the Mexican ... it was a honky tonk piano loose Stones / Monday's ' gimme shelter ' with a great groove and sonics before he quo'd it up and stripped it of any character 😀😀but he's more keen to make sure he keeps 100 % ( in his mind that simply equates to dropping all evidence of that person as if that wipes the original backing track and sole reason the track exists in the first place - it doesn't ! Thinking about it ... I wanted to use great sounds on previous mixes which he was dead set against ( the mighty I original guitar is by Strangeboy and totally amazing and I suspect cutting it out meant he didn't have to acknowledge help / writing / collaboration cos why else drop it ? ...was a rare moment of liberated brilliance probably written at a very early pivotal jamming stage ( so I was told ) ..Also similarly with files from Gem and co ... I wasn't allowed to use even though as a sample freak they clearly deserved their place above and beyond what he'd recorded cos they were great and had character .... I'm getting it now .... uses people to write , then piggy backs & discards taking his chords and lyric to the next producer Yes ... noise coming from his camp is ALL about writing IN THE STUDIO to new backing tracks ( exactly like Mexican / Right Stuff which was first time he'd ever worked like that and boy he resisted ) and DH is saying traditionally NG is mid paced and not much fun ... It's like US talking , another campaign built on our initiative ... selling him according to answering our critique ... I've written a song which kinda sums it up , it's called ' the man who went to extraordinary lengths to remain the same ' 😀😀😀 it's a psych classic 🍄🍄🍄🌻🌈✌️" Can I just say that Johnny Marr's solo on Ballad of the Mighty I is ace. Unless, Strangeboy really tore the roof off, then Noel made the right decision to hand the solo off to the greatest guitarist of his generation. Just sayin.... Next thing you know, Gaz will be taking credit for the sun being bright
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