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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2015 10:06:24 GMT -5
Haven't read thread in a while so too much indivudal things to quote so will just summarise: West Ham/Allardyce - With the squad West Ham have they shouldn't be in the relegation battle at any point during the season. It is a harsh sacking on Allardyce but such is football. I know it's only two places off but they should be a top half side. Liverpool - With Suarez gone Liverpool have been found out for what they are. They spent big over the last few seasons and nose dived. Rogers is the figure at the center of the attention but United hat off I think he should be given another season without Stevie "Me" and see what he can do. 9 years without a trophy for a (former) big club can't be tolerated by the fans much longer. I hope they suffer! "Top 4" - Will remain the same for a while, United & Arsenal don't have the disposable cash that the owners of City & Chelsea can throw at the manager but still have big bucks. Dissagree with Beady’s Here Now with them needing a "conventional striker", Giroud had a great run in and with Sanchez as a make shift striker could work too. Welbeck is still shit so would need someone better than him. kalas, you can't compare football to way things are done in american sports. There are 92 professional teams in England alone (not to mention the non-leagues) compared to 32 NFL teams. Salary caps won't work like they do in that sport as there are different tax brackets around Europe and mid table top division sides would take decades to turn before falling off again. That's the beauty of football, it can take you many places. If you come out of a YTS scheme and don't make it at a big club, you can make a very good living (prob. too good) playing lower level football and your career isn't over just coz you're not deemed good enough after one season. As mentioned above, comparing a passing & running game is completely different than managerial tactics. Boring/Predictable - The premier league has suffered, but no thanks to Sky and their "Best League in the World" attitude as they threw all the money at it and now is forced down our throats 24/7. "It's always the big teams winning" is an argument always brought up but its been the same in almost every major league. Bayern Munich have run nearly unopposed in most Bundesligas since the turn of the century, Real & Barca dominated Spain for longer than this, both finishing on 90+ points this season. Juve back in control over the Milan's in Italy - need to go back to '01 since none of them 3 won a scudetto. So it's not just the Premiership that is like this. My post is long enough to go into anything else if your after reading all that! DONT agree , if owners are forced to share there TV revenue money or limited the total amount of money you can spend yearly and if you go over charge a hefty luxury tax , , then teams like west ham , Southampton , whoever is mid level really the opportunity to spend money and sign better players and compete , that most certainly can be done in top flight footy and has nothing to. Do with american sports , It's buisness as for the passing running comparasin , it's more analogy of boring styles , and yea there are some fans that will say if we are gonna be a 8-8 7-9 club year after year at least let's put points on board. , agree with ith your other points tho ,, In the end , we shall see how west ham fare , they were in top 8 for some of campaign and sgtpepper let me clarify i may have typed wrong I meant the NFL is gaining popularity worldwide and looking to expand globally , I have always maintained that euro footy is more popular
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Post by sgtpeppr on May 28, 2015 10:13:53 GMT -5
kalas what do you mean by the NFL is up there with european leagues in popularity? do you mean the US only? that would suprise me. and i know you cant mean world wide... and you keep comparing the game to the NFL. its just not comparable. your points dont cross over...football is too big to compare to a one nation, 36 team league, all playing in a single division (i dont mean regional divisions). as for mourinho winning MotY without getting a monthly award; you can have a great month and sh!tty year. or you can have a great season by having average months...as long as the average is still a winning percentage. honestly, for his overall consistency and the fact he won the league, im not shocked he got it. most other managers had at least a couple of cr@p months... his speech was alright, but he gave united way too much credit. they didnt play attractive attacking football?! they played boring long ball or crosses most of the time. Yes I meant worldwide the European leauges are and will always be more popular worldwide , But the NFL is gaining popularity in Europe and when they eventually expand to london it will really take off , no question , the euro leauges are worldwide more popular I've been saying that for years, but NFL has made up ground worldwide ,THX to satellite and p,aying in London and nd what part of crossing over you referring g to , my last point was on money sharing which would change the face of euro footy as it did ameican , and most want that as for Europe qualifications spots that most certainly is like our sports because that makes the teams that make EUROPE a lot of money just like american sports clubs make money when there teams make playoffs , its just that you said the NFL is 'up there with euro leagues (maybe lower, but only just)'. and thats just not the case. yes american football is gaining popularity (europe and australia in particular), but its still nowhere near the same level as football...and never will be. theres areason football is the world game and american football has 'american' in the title. again, football is too BIG to try and govern like any of the american sports. for starters having different caps in different divs would lead to teams who go up and down finding themselves in a world of hurt financially. something the NFL & NBA dont need to worry about because even when a team finishes bottom, theyll still be playing in the same league the next season. how would it work during the champs league? because the italian cap and the english cap would have to be different... theres also alot more history to football. there have always been big and small clubs. big clubs will stay big, not due to money, but due to the fan base (i.e. man city). small-medium clubs can become successful with the right board/management. im a hammers fan, but im very much against the idea of a cap. i dont want football to be all about making every team equal and sharing and caring and all that nonsense. thats not football. it would also diminish the quality of play of the medium-big clubs. the champs league wouldnt be as good a quality as it is now. id rather see a few star studded teams playing the best football imaginable, opposed to a bunch of average teams playing average football. "DONT agree , if owners are forced to share there TV revenue money or limited the total amount of money you can spend yearly and if you go over charge a hefty luxury tax"youre talking about something along the lines of FFP, which is very different to a salary cap. but limiting the amount clubs spend on players will eventually just end in prices of players going down and salaries going up. but you bring up TV revenue which got me thinking. giving the bottom half of the table a higher % of the pot, would give them opportunites to make headway into the top half. obviously just my opinions...
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Post by MG on May 28, 2015 10:27:08 GMT -5
^^Thanks for typing that out, saves me doing it! City aren't a big club, they are a MASSIVE club Re: Popularity of NFL, this will continue to grow and grow in UK/Ireland with Sky then implode a bit like the Premier league imo. It is great entertainment but football is more than just entertainment. I've had a growing interest in NFL since around 2008 and love the sport now but still see it more as entertainment than a true sport. Obviously I didn't grow up with it so it's not close to my heart like other things.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2015 10:33:26 GMT -5
Yes I meant worldwide the European leauges are and will always be more popular worldwide , But the NFL is gaining popularity in Europe and when they eventually expand to london it will really take off , no question , the euro leauges are worldwide more popular I've been saying that for years, but NFL has made up ground worldwide ,THX to satellite and p,aying in London and nd what part of crossing over you referring g to , my last point was on money sharing which would change the face of euro footy as it did ameican , and most want that as for Europe qualifications spots that most certainly is like our sports because that makes the teams that make EUROPE a lot of money just like american sports clubs make money when there teams make playoffs , its just that you said the NFL is 'up there with euro leagues (maybe lower, but only just)'. and thats just not the case. yes american football is gaining popularity (europe and australia in particular), but its still nowhere near the same level as football...and never will be. again, football is too BIG to try and govern like any of the american sports. for starters having different caps in different divs would lead to teams who go up and down finding themselves in a world of hurt financially. something the NFL & NBA dont need to worry about because even when a team finishes bottom, theyll still be playing in the same league the next season. how would it work during the champs league? because the italian cap and the english cap would have to be different... theres also alot more history to football. there have always been big and small clubs. big clubs will stay big, not due to money, but due to the fan base (i.e. man city). small-medium clubs can become successful with the right board/management. im a hammers fan, but im very much against the idea of a cap. i dont want football to be all about making every team equal and sharing and caring and all that nonsense. thats not football. it would also diminish the quality of play of the medium-big clubs. the champs league wouldnt be as good a quality as it is now. id rather see star studded teams playing the best football imaginable, opposed to a bunch of average teams playing average football. "DONT agree , if owners are forced to share there TV revenue money or limited the total amount of money you can spend yearly and if you go over charge a hefty luxury tax"youre talking about something along the lines of FFP, which is very different to a salary cap. but limiting the amount clubs spend on players will eventually just end in prices of players going down and salaries going up. but you bring up TV revenue which got me thinking. giving the bottom half of the table a higher % of the pot, would give them opportunites to make headway into the top half. obviously just my opinions... Good points ALL But a lot of big NFL clubs thought the same and it took some very brave owners , lime Wellington Mara of the ny Giants to see that if the big markets made all the money the smaller markets will always be weak , im older school , I think the talent should unite for euro championships and World Cup , other than that to id rather see competitive leauges rather than the usualsuspects win the big euro leauges , year after year ,,,,,,,,, matter of taste I guess
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Post by sgtpeppr on May 28, 2015 10:38:25 GMT -5
just makes it more special when a small club wins it... and its not like UCL is a new comp. well, ok it is, but only by name. its been this way for decades and has only come under scrutiny with the rise in popularity of the game in the US. once again, yanks trying to dictate to the world the best way to do things, when there way has just as many negatives...
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2015 10:40:17 GMT -5
Oh one more point sgtpepper I have always said it would have to be Europe wide caps So Italians or Germans would have no edge it will never happen so your way will continue the rich will a always be in Cl and the top teams will remain constant ........real competition; And mg. City are massive because of there owner , that can change real quick , look how chelsea went from a top 6 club to massive , thats the problem , your a rich Arab or Russian away from being massive , if the Arab money leaves city no longer massive , , like the 80 s and 90 s
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2015 10:45:00 GMT -5
just makes it more special when a non-big club wins... and its not like UCL is a new comp. well, ok it is, but only by name. its been this way for decades and has only come under scrutiny with the rise in popularity of the game in the US. once again, yanks trying to dictate to the world the best way to do things, when there way has just as many negatives... Huh ?? That's just a stupid comment , nobody is more pro Europe sport than me , I only responded to the countless times over the years on this forum that ENGLISH AND EURO POSTERS HERE COMPLAINED ABOUT ......THE LEAUGES TO PREDICTBLE THE CL SEMIS TO PREDICTABLE , THE GAME STALE all all I did was suggests alternatitive that works here ........ not trying to dictate funny how old predjudiced come out Nothing couldn b farther from the truth
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Post by sgtpeppr on May 28, 2015 10:48:12 GMT -5
Oh one more point sgtpepper I have always said it would have to be Europe wide caps So Italians or Germans would have no edge it will never happen so your way will continue the rich will a always be in Cl and the top teams will remain constant ........real competition; And mg. City are massive because of there owner , that can change real quick , look how chelsea went from a top 6 club to massive , thats the problem , your a rich Arab or Russian away from being massive , if the Arab money leaves city no longer massive , , like the 80 s and 90 s in football there will always be weak teams. thats my point. you cant make hundreds of teams spanning dozens of countries all the same quality. city being massive has nothing to do with the owner?! or even them winning titles. they were massive when they were playing in the 2nd div. still selling out all games...its about the fan base. the way its set up might not be 'real competition' for the 250 smaller clubs, but its a much higher quality of competition between the teams that make it.
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Post by sgtpeppr on May 28, 2015 10:50:40 GMT -5
just makes it more special when a non-big club wins... and its not like UCL is a new comp. well, ok it is, but only by name. its been this way for decades and has only come under scrutiny with the rise in popularity of the game in the US. once again, yanks trying to dictate to the world the best way to do things, when there way has just as many negatives... Huh ?? That's just a stupid comment , nobody is more pro Europe sport than me , I only responded to the countless times over the years on this forum that ENGLISH AND EURO POSTERS HERE COMPLAINED ABOUT ......THE LEAUGES TO PREDICTBLE THE CL SEMIS TO PREDICTABLE , THE GAME STALE all all I did was suggests alternatitive that works here ........ not trying to dictate funny how old predjudiced come out Nothing couldn b farther from the truth thats not a complaint i hear often when im in england/germany/italy. youve been a fan for a long time. i meant the new people who have come to the game over the last decade when its become alot more popular over there. and my line about typical yanks was a joke...albeit a bad one.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2015 10:57:47 GMT -5
Huh ?? That's just a stupid comment , nobody is more pro Europe sport than me , I only responded to the countless times over the years on this forum that ENGLISH AND EURO POSTERS HERE COMPLAINED ABOUT ......THE LEAUGES TO PREDICTBLE THE CL SEMIS TO PREDICTABLE , THE GAME STALE all all I did was suggests alternatitive that works here ........ not trying to dictate funny how old predjudiced come out Nothing couldn b farther from the truth thats not a comkplaint i hear often when im in england/germany/italy. youve been a fan for a long time. i meant the new people who have come to the game over the last decade when its become alot more popular over there. and my line about typical yanks was a joke...albeit a bad one. It's all good I've joked many times and been misinterpreted , I hear it on this forum about game being boring from same teams competing , And from my Ipswich town , palace , Preston , friends , end end of day it's my favorite leauge to watch year long so im happy
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Post by sgtpeppr on May 28, 2015 11:09:07 GMT -5
its definitely become the most exciting league over the last few years. i just dont buy into the whole 'best league in the world' idea. the football itself is actually pretty ordinary most of the time. for pure technique and tactics theres about a half dozen other leagues that are more enjoyable.
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Post by matt on May 28, 2015 11:41:08 GMT -5
Don't believe what the English press say about Mourinho - their heads are so far stuck up his arse it's insane. Italian and Spanish media hate the guy, but their football culture has always been more sophisticated and mature than England. Hence why they are so successful in international football and England aren't! As an Arsenal fan, where do you think we're going in terms of next season? Year after year we are 2 or 3 obvious signings short, and AW continues to overlook them. Look, I love The Coq - his passion and energy and drive is something we haven't seen with Arsenal since The Invincibles, The Coq will die for the badge. But he can't do it alone, and Arteta and Flamini are too old: 1. A DM 2. Conventional Striker 3. Either GK or LB (Niether will happen, AW has too much faith in both). But if we buy 2 out of those 3 positions, we'll be properly challenging. What do you think about this? Wenger leaves Arsenal after winning the Cup, and Klopp has agreed to take the job? Stranger things have happened.....
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Post by Manualex on May 28, 2015 12:09:57 GMT -5
As an Arsenal fan, where do you think we're going in terms of next season? Year after year we are 2 or 3 obvious signings short, and AW continues to overlook them. Look, I love The Coq - his passion and energy and drive is something we haven't seen with Arsenal since The Invincibles, The Coq will die for the badge. But he can't do it alone, and Arteta and Flamini are too old: 1. A DM 2. Conventional Striker 3. Either GK or LB (Niether will happen, AW has too much faith in both). But if we buy 2 out of those 3 positions, we'll be properly challenging. What do you think about this? Wenger leaves Arsenal after winning the Cup, and Klopp has agreed to take the job? Stranger things have happened..... Watch this fall apart as Villa wins the cup.
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Post by matt on May 28, 2015 12:34:20 GMT -5
What do you think about this? Wenger leaves Arsenal after winning the Cup, and Klopp has agreed to take the job? Stranger things have happened..... Watch this fall apart as Villa wins the cup. Yeah, surely Wenger wouldn't leave after a defeat. A bizarre theory I had, I just have a suspicion Klopp has a job lined up somewhere....
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Post by sgtpeppr on May 28, 2015 13:04:00 GMT -5
pretty sure i read hes in talks with a certain merseyside club...? might have just been rumours tho. theres not many managers id rather see @ arsenal than wenger...klopp is one of them. but im holding onto a whole bunch straws and a minor miracle that he somehow ends up at west ham. well, a man can dream anyway. itll take the sting out of moving to the new ground.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2015 13:14:10 GMT -5
Why would wenger leave ?? he has arse back in top 3 , after his hands were tied financially with that new stadium , He certainly plays entertaining footy which seems to be a pre requisite for being a top manager to most ...... If klopp has a job lined up its NOT arsenal ...Wenger I think will coach thete til he tires of it , and I don't see that happening next year ,
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Post by sgtpeppr on May 28, 2015 13:17:23 GMT -5
Why would wenger leave ?? he has arse back in top 3 , after his hands were tied financially with that new stadium , He certainly plays entertaining footy which seems to be a pre requisite for being a top manager to most ...... If klopp has a job lined up its NOT arsenal ... Wenger I think will coach thete til he tires of it , and I don't see that happening next year , this.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2015 13:25:06 GMT -5
Why would wenger leave ?? he has arse back in top 3 , after his hands were tied financially with that new stadium , He certainly plays entertaining footy which seems to be a pre requisite for being a top manager to most ...... If klopp has a job lined up its NOT arsenal ... Wenger I think will coach thete til he tires of it , and I don't see that happening next year , this. Cheers While I know he has no way near sir Alex numbers in terms of titles or Cl titles. He has won the EPL on 3 or 4 occasions I forget the exact number my guess is 4 , his Fa cup record is outstanding , and up until arsenal moved and he couldn't attract the huge names arsenal were pretty much top 2 year in year out ........he seems to have some cash again , I see him there TIL he retires or wants to move on , the board are in no rush to push him out....... Imo
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Post by sgtpeppr on May 28, 2015 13:38:04 GMT -5
Cheers While I know he has no way near sir Alex numbers in terms of titles or Cl titles. He has won the EPL on 3 or 4 occasions I forget the exact number my guess is 4 , his Fa cup record is outstanding , and up until arsenal moved and he couldn't attract the huge names arsenal were pretty much top 2 year in year out ........he seems to have some cash again , I see him there TIL he retires or wants to move on , the board are in no rush to push him out....... Imo glad we finally agree on something football related! i usually get attacked for this but; i do think fergies a tad over-rated as a manager. not to take anything away from his amazing dynasty. but he didnt win anything for 5 years, then was given that youth team (which was brian kidds project, not fergies) and then after they succeeded for him, he was allowed to spend whatever he wanted (and boy did he spend). he never found and developed unheard of talent, just bought players that were already proven...fair enough i guess. i just think theres quite a few managers that couldve come into the united team at that time and do just what fergie did... again, not trying to take anything away from his achievements. he did it, no-one else. but wenger is the better overall manager in my opinion.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on May 28, 2015 13:44:34 GMT -5
Wenger's not going anywhere. He'll see his contract through (2 more seasons), and may even extend depending on any "real" success (i.e., wins the league).
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Post by matt on May 28, 2015 14:54:59 GMT -5
Cheers While I know he has no way near sir Alex numbers in terms of titles or Cl titles. He has won the EPL on 3 or 4 occasions I forget the exact number my guess is 4 , his Fa cup record is outstanding , and up until arsenal moved and he couldn't attract the huge names arsenal were pretty much top 2 year in year out ........he seems to have some cash again , I see him there TIL he retires or wants to move on , the board are in no rush to push him out....... Imo Basically, what Wenger did with Arsenal is what Klopp did with Dortmund. An unfancied stodgy playing club and he built them up into title winners, albeit always against bigger spenders, Ferguson always had money at his disposal, and the United hierarchy wanted Wenger to replace him in 2002, when he originally intended to retire. I believe that if Wenger joined Newcastle, or Liverpool, or Tottenham, West Ham or even Chelsea in 1996 before they bought titles with Abramovich, he would have built title winning sides with them. And we wouldn't be talking about Newcastle failing to win a trophy for 50 years, or Liverpool failing to win the league on 25 years. Such a great manager, and his contribution to the game goes far far beyond just trophies. If all managers were like Wenger, we wouldn't need to talk about how billionaires are ruining football, as Wenger proves it is possible to build a team of winners despite not being the richest. In today's context of filthy rich football and globalisation, he, along with the likes of Klopp, goes to show that ideas and innovation can overcome the sugar daddies and their clubs who are ruining the sport.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2015 16:02:29 GMT -5
Cheers While I know he has no way near sir Alex numbers in terms of titles or Cl titles. He has won the EPL on 3 or 4 occasions I forget the exact number my guess is 4 , his Fa cup record is outstanding , and up until arsenal moved and he couldn't attract the huge names arsenal were pretty much top 2 year in year out ........he seems to have some cash again , I see him there TIL he retires or wants to move on , the board are in no rush to push him out....... Imo glad we finally agree on something football related! i usually get attacked for this but; i do think fergies a tad over-rated as a manager. not to take anything away from his amazing dynasty. but he didnt win anything for 5 years, then was given that youth team (which was brian kidds project, not fergies) and then after they succeeded for him, he was allowed to spend whatever he wanted (and boy did he spend). he never found and developed unheard of talent, just bought players that were already proven...fair enough i guess. i just think theres quite a few managers that couldve come into the united team at that time and do just what fergie did... again, not trying to take anything away from his achievements. he did it, no-one else. but wenger is the better overall manager in my opinion. fergie being a tad overrated is another thing we agree on spot on
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on May 28, 2015 22:29:32 GMT -5
Wenger took on building the Emirates, and before it opened in 2006 he warned that Arsenal would go through a rough period as he worked to balance the budget. The stadium construction took place before Abramovich came to power - Wenger did not anticipate that happening, so already knowing Arsenal would be at a disadvantage as he paid off the stadium debt, it became even more difficult with the arrival of Abramovich.
Wenger has been so successful, even sans trophies. Every team has dropped out of the top 4 for at least one season, except Arsenal. The only thing regarding AW I have a problem with is that he should have won more during his first decade....he's lost several finals, and he dismantled the Invincibles too soon. But AW knows what he's doing, he always has. Let's stop being greedy and meet the club where it's actually at. And we're making progress.
Note: It's not coincidental that Arsenal's slip also coincided with David Dein's depature in 2007 - Wenger's confidant and right hand man. Once he left, not only did AW lose his partner, but he (AW) also took on too many roles, and is really doing too much.
What is also brilliant about AW is that he loves the club and has so much passion for The Arsenal.
I was 8 when Arsene took over in September 1996 (which is when I started following Arsenal). I will be approaching 30 when he's expected to retire. There's a whole generation, myself included, who doesn't know (and can't imagine) an Arsenal without Arsene Wenger. That's insane.
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Post by MG on May 29, 2015 9:14:15 GMT -5
What about all the times you were calling for his head over the year??
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Post by Gin & Tonic on May 29, 2015 11:47:52 GMT -5
Fergie's greatest achievement was winning the Cup Winners Cup with Aberdeen. Beat Bayern Munich and Real Madrid en route to the title with ABERDEEN.
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