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Post by Let It 🩸 on Sept 7, 2011 17:05:35 GMT -5
Chuck being Chuck. If you don't know who he is or his writing style you don't need to comment. Forget his revisionist history (Chuck would say all history is revisonist), the highlight of the read is Noel talking about success and how Chuck analyzes it. That's why he's a real writer and you all are furiously typing away on a forum.
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Post by Fiennes on Sept 7, 2011 17:22:34 GMT -5
A good read indeed. The fact that he succeeded in letting Noel open up this way is to the journalist's credit I think. Or it may have just been Noel getting up from the right side of his bed I was definitely surprised to read "..significant is the fact that the finest moments in Oasis' two-decade trajectory have generally occurred when Noel was singing..." and many of his comments made me raise my eyebrows (I simply don't agree), but I enjoyed reading Noel's point of view on things. He elaborated on many points. As for the fighting being published as a single, he may have been referring to the black sleeve single called "Oasis interviews".
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Post by tomlivesforever on Sept 7, 2011 17:25:13 GMT -5
Chuck being Chuck. If you don't know who he is or his writing style you don't need to comment. Forget his revisionist history (Chuck would say all history is revisonist), the highlight of the read is Noel talking about success and how Chuck analyzes it. That's why he's a real writer and you all are furiously typing away on a forum. I reserve the right to comment on any article or section of an article published in the public domain. For the most part it was a really good interview and Noel was engaging, the way he presented it for the most part was well done. But to not understand Liam's part in Oasis is to not get it. Simple as that.
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pnw13
Oasis Roadie
Posts: 157
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Post by pnw13 on Sept 7, 2011 18:00:27 GMT -5
Some of your comments are hilarious. Bad journalism ethic? Klosterman is a fantastic writer. He's profiling Noel. He has a slant. He's not writing for a newspaper. He's writing for a broad audience. He's writing, basically, a magazine-style feature. His comment about DLBIA and Acquiesce may be frowned upon by mega-fans like us, but it's not a ridiculous statement. EDIT: And, in my opinion, it's a fantastic piece. Really enjoyed it. It's bad journalistic integrity. There's such a thing as having a slant, but his writing is beyond a slant. Maybe the is what comes with age of bloggers. People don't even know what journalistic ethics/integrity means anymore. And what does him not writing to a newspaper mean? So because you don't write for a newspaper, that doesn't mean you shouldn't have some integrity in your writing? No, see that's the spoils of the bloggers age. 15 years ago, that article wouldn't have flown in many places. He's not doing an editorial, so he is held to same standards as any other journalist should be. Whether he works for a newspaper or doesn't. No matter how good the writing is (which it is). You desperately need to take a journalism class........
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Post by Bellboy on Sept 7, 2011 18:40:07 GMT -5
Well written, if a little American in it's view. Thanks for posting.
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Post by sdotsom on Sept 7, 2011 18:56:28 GMT -5
It's Klosterman. I'm a fan of his and have read all of his pop culture books - in them he makes side remarks about Oasis that fit in with his statements mentioned here. The impression I get is simply that he just stopped caring after Standing on the Shoulders. Sure he may have listened to the rest of the discography, but every time he's ever mentioned Oasis in his books it's usually a comment about them falling off after the first 2 discs.
That being said, this isn't an investigative journalism piece. Grantland is about pop culture, and it's not trying to change views on Oasis, etc. If America, or the little bit that knows about it, think Noel >> Liam in terms of creativity etc., Grantland is going to reflect that same angle. Probably why they interviewed Noel for this and not Liam for Beady.
I was just thrilled to see Oasis/Noel get a shout on such a popular website, to be honest.
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jrs40
Oasis Roadie
Posts: 400
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Post by jrs40 on Sept 7, 2011 19:15:11 GMT -5
Great read. Although I think the negatives of BHN and SOTSOG are exaggerated.
Is this the same guy who wrote for SPIN one time saying that Oasis were miles better than Pearl Jam?.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2011 19:22:14 GMT -5
He's a self-important prick but he certainly got some very interesting stuff out of Noel.
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Post by sdotsom on Sept 7, 2011 19:34:46 GMT -5
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Post by Silence Dogood on Sept 7, 2011 19:38:26 GMT -5
to be fair it is quite anti-Liam It is ridiculously so. The guy twists stuff and talks a load of bollocks about the high points of Oasis when we all know that the greatest moment involved both Liam and Noel. Shame cos aside from that it's a decent interview. The guy is just a clueless, bumlicking c*nt. pretty much THIS ^
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Post by Let It 🩸 on Sept 7, 2011 19:45:07 GMT -5
birds of a feather..........
just sayin'..........
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Post by eminorseventh on Sept 7, 2011 20:44:58 GMT -5
I think a lot more people value Noel's contributions to Oasis, than Liam's of course. I think they just see Liam as a frontman and that's it. That anyone could have sung any of the Oasis songs. Or better, that Noel could have taken those songs and sung himself and still would have been somewhat successful, whereas Liam is solely dependent on having somewhat good songs. I think that's the perception. And I believe that that will always bee the perception in America unfortunately for Liam. Unless he would do the unlikely and make a song as good as WW or DLBIA or something. (and even then he might get panned just for spite.) Well, that's true. Without the songs, Liam would be nothing. And DLBIA was a hit and Noel sang it. Edit* Of course Liam's charisma and voice added to the songs, but Noel would have been successful without Liam; not so much the other way around. (And I know Noel joined his band, but still)
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Post by bwilder on Sept 7, 2011 21:14:30 GMT -5
Thought it was a great article. You have to admit, a lot of Liam's negative press has been his own doing. Noel had to put up with a lot of his shit. Having said that, Noel could've been more tolerant of Liam towards the end of Oasis, which he acknowledges.
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Post by thestellasarecold on Sept 7, 2011 21:38:24 GMT -5
This was an entertaining read; the prose was good and carefully crafted. Noel was as open, honest and in-depth as you're ever likely to hear him be. He must have felt some kind of affinity with the writer as we all know he can be a complete prick if an ill-informed, vacuous media figure (of which there are so many) throws the usual inane questions at him. Noel revealed a humility and an awareness of his own limitations; personality traits sorely lacking at the height of his success in his twenties (many people in their twenties lack humility really).
I was particularly fascinated with the writer's comments about Noel and Liam's own feelings on where they stand musically in the present day. Noel ran with this when he used the excellent analogy of the Wizard of Oz behind the curtain and the monkey out front. Liam's simian traits aside, I don't think this was meant in a derogatory way. Noel was thinking carefully about the mechanics of families and brothers. As the writer says, it is hard to know what is perception and what is reality. I have siblings and it would certainly make sense for Liam to question his place now that he's out on his own and with a diminishing set of pipes. Ageing equals vulnerability I hate to say. Despite apparently enjoying fame, Noel may have unwittingly revealed otherwise when he spoke of his time as a roadie- he seemed to enjoy the spoils of the industry but he also liked the anonimity.
I agree that it was a faux pas of the writer to say that the Oasis machine was working best during Noel Gallagher sung moments. Alchemy= Noel Gallagher penned tunes sung by Liam Gallagher. Full Stop. (Australians don't say 'period'). In fairness though, like many in the American music press, the writer probably remembers several of Liam's 'ill considered' antics stateside. This may have coloured his view. Who knows? Afterall, he did recall the infamous MTV Unplugged affair. You could also argue that the yearning, vulnerability, dynamics and raw power of Liam's voice actually helped elevate some of Noel's weaker moments. For instance, 'Put Yer Money Where Yer Mouth Is' is only salvaged by Liam's vocals. Liam can make songs sound better than they actually are and Noel needed this kind of assistance post 1997. Another minor negative was the slightly snidey indifference the writer expressed toward the listening party (where he claimed nobody listened to the tracks!) Shit, I'd give my eye teeth to be there getting on the sauce and soaking up the songs! I guess that's the chasm between a die hard Noel fan like me and journos/writers for whom these kind of events are a dime a dozen. Minor quibbles aside, this Klosterman did a decent job.
Try to endure the kind of tiresome shit we have to read about the Gallaghers in Australia. Actually, you virtually will never hear anything about them aside from the odd tabloid sidebar- 'Liam Gives Up Drinking', 'Liam Sues Noel'. Didn't read anything about Liam dropping High Court proceedings though- that would be too dull.
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corduroy79
RKid
Who Put The Weight of the World On Your Shoulders?
Posts: 17
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Post by corduroy79 on Sept 8, 2011 0:01:09 GMT -5
Great informative interview on a great american pop culture/sports website by a great writer.
Next topic.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Sept 8, 2011 9:03:27 GMT -5
I agree that the interview was a good read. Chuck Klosterman is a very good writer and I enjoy many of his books that he has written. He has mentioned Oasis in at least 3 of his publications. Much like Klosterman it is always far more interesting to read about the bad times than the good. Not sure why that is. Reading interviews from The Beatles during the White Album, Let It Be and Abbey Road sessions always make for a good time. Harrison had some classic quotes when reflecting back. "The Winter of Discontent with The Beatles!".
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Post by youandmegirl on Sept 8, 2011 10:30:40 GMT -5
Some of your comments are hilarious. Bad journalism ethic? Klosterman is a fantastic writer. He's profiling Noel. He has a slant. He's not writing for a newspaper. He's writing for a broad audience. He's writing, basically, a magazine-style feature. His comment about DLBIA and Acquiesce may be frowned upon by mega-fans like us, but it's not a ridiculous statement. EDIT: And, in my opinion, it's a fantastic piece. Really enjoyed it. It's bad journalistic integrity. There's such a thing as having a slant, but his writing is beyond a slant. Maybe the is what comes with age of bloggers. People don't even know what journalistic ethics/integrity means anymore. And what does him not writing to a newspaper mean? So because you don't write for a newspaper, that doesn't mean you shouldn't have some integrity in your writing? No, see that's the spoils of the bloggers age. 15 years ago, that article wouldn't have flown in many places. He's not doing an editorial, so he is held to same standards as any other journalist should be. Whether he works for a newspaper or doesn't. No matter how good the writing is (which it is). Seriously, how old are you? cause you sound imbecilic as fuck.
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Post by ctmazin on Sept 8, 2011 10:45:52 GMT -5
To reiterate what I already said for those who are journalistically confused, an article is not automatically either HARD NEWS (no bias) or an EDITORIAL (Bias allowed). There are other genres.
Klosterman is writing what is called narrative non-fiction. In this genre, the writer is not allowed to make up shit, but is entitled to state his opinion/observations any time he wants and insert himself into the narrative of the piece.
It has nothing to do with "bloggers". Drives me nuts when sensible people blame shit that happens all the time in regular journalism on "bloggers". Folks have been writing articles like this for YEARS. Read a Rolling Stone article from the 70s or 80s or 90s (their heydey, imo). The writer is consistently inserting him/her self into the story and offering opinions/judgments. Hell, read the Rolling Stone or Spin articles on Oasis from 95/96/97. All full of judgments the writer made on Oasis' music/conduct. (many of which rubbed me the wrong way, but certainly didn't make me question the writer's journalistic integrity-only his musical taste). Which is fair game for the genre of writing- narrative non-fiction magazine writing.
People are getting their panties tied in a knot over this article because they don't like the fact that the author clearly has little respect for Liam. Fair enough. But, to reiterate, he's not breaking any rules or "bringing down journalism".
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Post by Rifles on Sept 8, 2011 10:51:41 GMT -5
Man do we have some angry people on here. This has really turned into Republican vs Democrat level feuding. It's very Obama vs. Bush isn't it? Noel the articulate, witty, more polished dude and Liam the seemingly bumbling idiot with die hard supporters no matter what he does. There are legitimate parallels there.
As for the article - Yeah the writer obviously leans to the Noel side, as most relatively uninformed North Americans do, but it's a great article. Amazing how defensive you guys are of Liam when the guy makes a comment that clearly shows he doesn't know much about the band. You can essentially dismiss his opinion as soon as you hit that line about Oasis' finest moments being sung by Noel. That's a ridiculous thing to say, but the rest of the article is still informative and revealing.
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Post by GIMH on Sept 8, 2011 12:35:45 GMT -5
A good read but agree with the general consensus on his excessive anti-Liam sentiment. To say Oasis's finest moments happened when Noel was singing is bizarre, and listing Hey Hey My My as a career highlight is gibberish (don't get me wrong, I enjoy it, but please).
And I noticed someone earlier in the thread saying Noel would have been successful without Liam. Nah. Sure, DLBIA was a worldwide hit. On their second album. They'd have never been signed with Noel singing all the songs, especially with the way his voice was back then (I.e. Reasonable)
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dhamon
Oasis Roadie
Posts: 450
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Post by dhamon on Sept 10, 2011 14:15:51 GMT -5
I don't understand why SOTSOG gets such criticism. In my top two or three Oasis albums. With some B-sides replacing LJ, ICSAL, and PYMWYMI it might've been my favorite.
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Post by manualex on Sept 10, 2011 14:27:59 GMT -5
I don't understand why SOTSOG gets such criticism. In my top two or three Oasis albums. With some B-sides replacing LJ, ICSAL, and PYMWYMI it might've been my favorite. I know why, it is pessimistic something that Oasis didnt quite did on their first three albums and b-sides(wich were optimistic). It was a great way to move on(for everyone that were in the band and the ones who came to tour) but no one got that at the time. Great bunch of songs but the worst are on the album and it is supposed to be the other way around.
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