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Post by feckarse on Jan 10, 2006 16:33:45 GMT -5
What force, power or laws existed before the beginning of the universe to make it come into existence? Since the universe exists, what was the cause? Our rational minds tell us the universe could not have come from nothing. That defies not only logic but the laws of physics. What—or who—caused the universe? Why was it brought into being? quantum physics has proven that cause can occur after the effect and that they can occur instanteously in completely different parts of the universe. This doesn't follow any logic as we understand it. And this is barely just scraping the tip of the iceberg when it comes to rooting what the universe is all about. It's that type of thing which i was trying to point out in my above post - the way we think is too simplistic (and probably always will be, because relatively we're extremely limited in our mental capacity), as illustrated by your very own post I believe it's wrong to try understand things in the way your mind finds easiest to cope with (for example, cause must precede effect) People in the middle ages knew the earth couldn't be round, otherwise they'd fall off
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Post by rockandroll on Jan 11, 2006 4:36:48 GMT -5
People in the middle ages knew the earth couldn't be round, otherwise they'd fall off Did you get that line from Men In Black? ;D ********************************** Funny thing about these discussions/debates is that we always get back to the beginning, knowing absolutely nothing more than we did when we started. Probably having more thoughts, views and perceptions but solving nothing at all. Because truth is, even if some don't like to admit it, We are nothing but insignificant particles of shit in this vast universe. We like to believe that we are superior beings when we can't even get along or avoid mistakes we've already made in the past!. As feck said, we have very limited minds. And there's nothing wrong with that of course....because that's all we know. Oh, and nothing to do with the subject but I remember a ''twilight zone'' episode where some astronaut crashes into an unknown planet, you see him talk to the base and as the plot unravels you see how his home planet gets destroyed...then he comes out of his space ship, finds a woman who doesn't speak his language obviously, they start a relantionship and at the end you find out that the girl's nam is Eva and the guy's name is Adam...pretty cool, huh? And that was a black and white episode! ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2006 14:24:00 GMT -5
i ask you the same questions about god. If god exists, how did he get there and who made him. your puny brain is thinking of things too simplistically (sp?)... Now I mean no offence, my brain is puny too, as is that of every person on earth when it comes to trying to comprehend the universe Take for example: we perceive time as a universal constant in our heads (which it isn't) and that it always moves in one direction. If we had the ability to perceive it better and ground an understanding in it more solidly, then our minds would be open to far deeper thoughts on the roots of the 'creation' of the universe. Does the universe have a beginning? Is it caught in some loop with parallel universes in ways we can't even understand? Our simple minds mean we're probably all asking the wrong questions... I don't know what the right questions are, but I believe that even the world's smartest scientest is far from anywhere when it comes to understanding the universe. Let me give an analogy: My dog is smart. She can give the paw, beg, roll-over and even collect the newspaper on request. But I tried to teach her simple trigonometry, and no matter how hard I tried to teach, or she tried to learn, she never had a chance of comprehending it. It's nothing negative about the dog, just her mind is too simple for that task, even though by her standards, she considers herself to be smart. But try to explain to her that the world is round and rotates around the sun! Now put us on the scale of the Universe.... we're not even out of the nursery yet The more you learn, the more you realise you don't know I'll stop rambling , I'm tired and want to go to bed! i agree with what you say, but what i was getting at with If god exists, how did he get there and who made him. is that some people justify there belief in an exists of a God by stating that we cant possibly just have appeared out of nowhere. when they seem to think that, that logic dosen't need to apply to there God as well.
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Post by Nicola on Jan 11, 2006 14:37:26 GMT -5
I'm not into that christianity rubbish. I was brought up as catholic and think its a pile of shite.
I'd like to believe in a higher being existing but i personally dont believe in Jesus and all them stories about him.
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Post by giggergrl on Jan 11, 2006 22:43:04 GMT -5
I'm not into that christianity rubbish. I was brought up as catholic and think its a pile of shite. I'd like to believe in a higher being existing but i personally dont believe in Jesus and all them stories about him. I'd say something negative about christianity. but I'm a citizen of the USA currently and my email and posts are being monitored.. the true believer police will be at my door... cheers nicola !
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Post by Nicola on Jan 12, 2006 12:45:46 GMT -5
Yeah Tamara, christianity is a load of shite with little stories all made up for the " believers "
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Post by His Royal Majesty Revolver on Jan 13, 2006 1:38:29 GMT -5
I'm not into that christianity rubbish. I was brought up as catholic and think its a pile of shite. I'd like to believe in a higher being existing but i personally dont believe in Jesus and all them stories about him. I'd say something negative about christianity. but I'm a citizen of the USA currently and my email and posts are being monitored.. the true believer police will be at my door... cheers nicola ! Hahahaha... and they don't monitor your other posts, love? Anyhow, I agree that Christianity has done a lot of bad things throughout history, but it's important to realize that it also played it vital role in building better societies. I'm not a Christian and I am not advocating religion of any sort, but it's important not to completely disregard its positive aspects throughout history
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Post by drunken guitar pop on Jan 13, 2006 19:35:15 GMT -5
If god exists, how did he get there and who made him. is that some people justify there belief in an exists of a God by stating that we cant possibly just have appeared out of nowhere. when they seem to think that, that logic dosen't need to apply to there God as well. The standards are different because the claims are different. Theists usually believe primarily out of faith and openly admit it. Athiests do the same thing but then usually claim that less faith is involved because science is on their side. That's why people call it "religion vs. science" when it's really religion vs. atheism with science as the goal. If science itself is on your side you should be the one prepared to explain it, no?
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Post by feckarse on Jan 13, 2006 21:54:16 GMT -5
sorry im too drunk and sad to read the last few msgs
but
i'd love to love jesus. but i dont buy into it
id love to believe all that. i really would. that someone died for our sins because he loved us so much. its fuckingpoetic
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Post by Currian on Jan 14, 2006 7:57:53 GMT -5
I'd say something negative about christianity. but I'm a citizen of the USA currently and my email and posts are being monitored.. the true believer police will be at my door... cheers nicola ! Don't you have the right of free speech in your country? Well feck, I totally agree with you. It's fucking poetic indeed. But alas, nothing more than a fairy tale in the end, I think.
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Post by giggergrl on Jan 14, 2006 22:27:25 GMT -5
I'd say something negative about christianity. but I'm a citizen of the USA currently and my email and posts are being monitored.. the true believer police will be at my door... cheers nicola ! Don't you have the right of free speech in your country? Well feck, I totally agree with you. It's fucking poetic indeed. But alas, nothing more than a fairy tale in the end, I think. free speech in usa ? no, not for the next 4 years at least
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Post by muzzamuzza on Jan 15, 2006 1:32:04 GMT -5
He did and still does the gaffer. God isn't no big ideal person imo, it's a person each induvudual can identify with. Obviously peoplae disagree, but c'est la vie. belief is belief..... we belive, we know. we play, we show.
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Post by wyman on Jan 15, 2006 14:17:34 GMT -5
Bottom line it is one way to control "the people".I want to believe in a higher being but sometimes I think that it's mans fear of the end,what if there wasn't anything after this,what if when you die there's nothing,your just gone.Flowers live,is there a flower heaven?Just because we're more developed than plants does that mean anything?just think of this,what if I knew for a fact that there is no after life,what would you do and how would you live you life?
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Post by halftheworld on Jan 17, 2006 9:55:18 GMT -5
Oh, and nothing to do with the subject but I remember a ''twilight zone'' episode where some astronaut crashes into an unknown planet, you see him talk to the base and as the plot unravels you see how his home planet gets destroyed...then he comes out of his space ship, finds a woman who doesn't speak his language obviously, they start a relantionship and at the end you find out that the girl's nam is Eva and the guy's name is Adam...pretty cool, huh? And that was a black and white episode! ;D He He, nice post! And nice debate as well. Like one gentleman said before: we always end at the beginning when it comes to think about god. But I think it's quite entertaining to think about all that. Could spend hours with it ;D The question for me is always: what is meant with the term god? Don't know if it 's a transzendent power, a person, an ideal or a being that's just really fucking intelligent... But to take the bibles stories for granted: rubbish!
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Post by Superguiller. on Jan 27, 2006 8:51:51 GMT -5
Religion is just politics, right wing politics, it's always been that way.
Did he exist? Sure, a lot of people did. Personally, I'd rather read Bertolt Brecht's books on sundays.
And that priest doing that in Italy, I think it's great. It was about time someone went to court said "shut up, you're lying".
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Post by nyr401994 on Jan 27, 2006 23:42:45 GMT -5
i think jesus, moses, buddha, all these big figures... i think they existed, but weren't gods or prophets. they were just people telling others to be groovy and stuff
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