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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Sept 27, 2005 17:06:40 GMT -5
Give peace a chance: that is the subject of this evening's "Talking Points Memo." Big peace rally over the weekend in D.C., the usual suspects chanting the usual anti-Iraq slogans. Reaction to the demonstration was muted. Many media outlets buried the story, as Hurricane Rita dominated the news. Speakers included Cindy Sheehan, Jesse Jackson, Ralph Nader (search) and actress Jessica Lange, that noted political scientist.
Now, I have but one very simple question because I am a simple man. Would you want any of those folks to be foreign policy advisers? Any of them? I submit the vast majority of Americans would cringe if Ms. Sheehan, Reverend Jackson or Mr. Nader were ever given even an advisory role in U.S. overseas affairs, and there's a good reason for that. These people have no idea what they're talking about.
Let's walk through it. The first accusation from the cut-and-run crowd is that the Iraq war is illegal. Not true. Saddam signed a cease-fire after being defeated in the first Gulf war and then violated said cease-fire. In the fall of 2002, Congress voted overwhelmingly to take military action against Saddam if he continued to defy U.N. mandates, which he did.
Second, many cut-and-runners accuse anyone who disagrees with them of cowardice and sending American kids to die. This kind of 4th-grade argument is insulting and the personal animus behind it unacceptable. The USA has an all-volunteer professional military, which no one is forced to join.
Third, many of the cut-and-runners believe that the Bush administration has caused — caused — the war on terror. They believe the USA is intrinsically a bad country led by an evil man: the president. And finally, the cut-and-runners basically have no strategy to defeat Islamo- fascism because they don't believe the USA has a unilateral right to do so.
So it's very important that you understand the mentality of those who want to pull out of Iraq right now. That mentality would put all of us in grave danger. A cut-and-run retreat in Iraq would lead to a tremendous resurgence in worldwide terrorism. For example, the jihadists currently in Iraq would transit through Iran into Afghanistan and begin an insurgency there almost immediately. Iran itself would accelerate her nuclear activities, believing the USA weakened. And the civil war that would erupt inside Iraq once America and Britain pulled out would allow Iran to send forces into that country to fight on the side of the Shiia, thereby Iran would dominate Iraq.
All in all, the world would become a much more dangerous place if the USA cuts and runs from Iraq. If Iran dominates the Gulf, get ready for a war that'll makes Iraq look like "Sesame Street." Americans will never be able to live in peace and security knowing that Iran has nuclear capability which they could funnel to jihadists. Jessica Lange might not get this, but I think you do. We have to tolerate these loopy cut-and-run people — their dissent is protected — but they are not looking out for you or even their own country. They are foolish people. Pray their numbers don't grow.
And that's "The Memo."
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Post by giggergrl on Sept 27, 2005 17:39:33 GMT -5
Tam typing well they have every right to protest... MORE WOULD PROTEST IF THERE WAS A DRAFT LIKE BACK IN THE DAY !!! trust me... but why bother 2 protest under a dictator ? 4 more years - 4 more wars ! waving my flag ! bush -cheney campaign - thanks for not noticing folks !
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Sept 27, 2005 19:22:57 GMT -5
Tam, ur missing the point yet again I never said (rather the article never said) that they couldnt have their own views and protest.... however, their views are 100% illogical (examples of that are backed up in the article) and some of their points are even wrong claiming it was an 'illegal' war... re-read it and u should be able to see just how uneducated Sheehan and co are... this is pathetic that we have a political civil war errupting over something that wont be changed...why wont it be changed? not cos Bush doesnt care about the american ppl nor bc he doesnt see the protesters, but bc its is just illogical and flat out stupid to with draw troops...LOOK WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF WE DID--> THATS THE POINT OF THE ARTICLE!!!!!
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Post by giggergrl on Sept 27, 2005 19:30:41 GMT -5
Tam, ur missing the point yet again I never said (rather the article never said) that they couldnt have their own views and protest.... however, their views are 100% illogical (examples of that are backed up in the article) and some of their points are even wrong claiming it was an 'illegal' war... re-read it and u should be able to see just how uneducated Sheehan and co are... this is pathetic that we have a political civil war errupting over something that wont be changed...why wont it be changed? not cos Bush doesnt care about the american ppl nor bc he doesnt see the protesters, but bc its is just illogical and flat out stupid to with draw troops...LOOK WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF WE DID--> THATS THE POINT OF THE ARTICLE!!!!! THIS IS TAM TYPING>> Q - is it illogical to protest against a president for any reason - whose "minnions of satan" staged/fabricated a reason for pre-emptive war in iraq ? that is the point.. they had an agenda and lied to push it thru, blamed it in the cia, blah blah.. their arrogance and ignorance of how the world works will haunt us all...and lack of diplomacy.. I don't need to re-read the garbledee -goop...
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Sept 27, 2005 19:37:14 GMT -5
and once again you missed the point...
now your telling me that the reasons we went to war are false...fine, maybe they were, i dont care atm bc thats not what im talking about
the article is about what would happen if we pulled troops out of the war NOW....u cant prevent the war, cos its 3 yrs too late for that, protesters want to stop the war but that makes no sense for the reasons stated above
ok i really dont have time to talk anymore...latin quiz tomorrow...got a 79% and 87% on the first 2....
ahhh politics consumes me too much, next yr in Uni should be fun...im applying to G.W early decision....LETS BE AVIN YA
and, read the Sheehan article i just posted, great point it makes..
ok im out, peace tam
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Post by giggergrl on Sept 27, 2005 19:46:51 GMT -5
and once again you missed the point... now your telling me that the reasons we went to war are false...fine, maybe they were, i dont care atm bc thats not what im talking about the article is about what would happen if we pulled troops out of the war NOW....u cant prevent the war, cos its 3 yrs too late for that, protesters want to stop the war but that makes no sense for the reasons stated above ok i really dont have time to talk anymore...latin quiz tomorrow...got a 79% and 87% on the first 2.... ahhh politics consumes me too much, next yr in Uni should be fun...im applying to G.W early decision....LETS BE AVIN YA and, read the Sheehan article i just posted, great point it makes.. ok im out, peace tam tam typing reasons we went to war were totally false... in order for me to address a problem, I look at the root cause... how can these ppl lead us in the right direction then? .. this is a catch 22.. I am not saying we shld back out.... we are screwed either way... us military totally frustrated with their current leadership.. ask military ppl if they agree on us being there now , go ahead...
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Sept 27, 2005 19:49:01 GMT -5
arrg!!!! no!!!!!!
thats in the past...now we know for future times to make 100% certain we should go to war...
but now look at the present and future...thats the point of this article
the article is NOT trying to JUSTIFY the war, but rather state why we won't pull out--> why are u failing to see that!!!!! lol
ok i really must go!!
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Post by giggergrl on Sept 27, 2005 19:53:01 GMT -5
arrg!!!! no!!!!!! thats in the past...now we know for future times to make 100% certain we should go to war... but now look at the present and future...thats the point of this article the article is NOT trying to JUSTIFY the war, but rather state why we won't pull out--> why are u failing to see that!!!!! lol ok i really must go!! tam typing we'll be in iraq for a long time.. then it will become and islamic state, if a civil war does not break out... ..we'll train their military... and we'll be screwed financially... that is the scenario m8..
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Sept 27, 2005 20:28:46 GMT -5
i'll take that senario...which is 'worst case' should we continue to stay on this path...over the other case listed above in the article
Once again, Iraq will be 100% better than it ever was when under Saddam when all is said and done, one reason of that is bc it couldnt get any worse
i dont think u realize how bad of a person Saddam was...
to say Bush is an evil dictator is blasphomy (sp) and then not to realize that we actually outsed once of the worst dicatotors in the world today--FACT!!
READ THE SHEEHAN ARTICLE!! Esp the last 2 parragraphs...sums it all up
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Sept 27, 2005 20:46:26 GMT -5
if i held my ground would you ask me to change this drought bleeds on now were dancing for rain we drink the air but its so not the same these worlds colide but the distance remains we point the finger, never accept the blame
~Dancing for Rain by Rise Against
just discovered this band...pretty damn good...great lyrics...a bit heavy music, but once u get used to them they are fuckin quality...they have 3 albums, all amazing...act i havnt listened to their first, getting that for my birthday on the 14th tho, so its all good...but i digress....
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2005 10:44:23 GMT -5
THE WAR WAS WRONG. Even worse is that there appears to have been no plan after the war. George Bush and Tony Blair have a lot to answer for, but that does not mean it is right to pull the troops out. This can only take place when Iraq has troops and a police force that can do the job for itself. Having destroyed many people’s lives you can't just run from the mess that has been created.
Yes I want the troops out as soon as possible but I don't think the time is now.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Sept 29, 2005 14:21:41 GMT -5
thank god!! someone who actually understood the article!!
agreed
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Post by Moorish on Oct 11, 2005 8:48:43 GMT -5
to say Bush is an evil dictator is blasphomy (sp) No it isn't! How is it blasphemy to insult a world leader? They're not God/Jesus/Buddah/Allah etc. And Bush DEFINITELY isn't, despite what he may think and believe ("Yes folks, GOD TOLD ME TO GO TO WAR. Seriously").
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Post by globe on Oct 11, 2005 10:52:00 GMT -5
Once again, Iraq will be 100% better than it ever was when under Saddam when all is said and done, one reason of that is bc it couldnt get any worse i dont think u realize how bad of a person Saddam was... i work with 2 Iraqi guys and I think they might just disagree with you on that one.
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