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Post by GlastoEls on Nov 4, 2024 12:09:32 GMT -5
Can we not have BOTH - pushing the boundaries in records ( matt I agree about 2000s Oasis) AND celebrating the concert (and again, this was really where Liam excelled as it wasn’t just “playing Oasis” it was diverse set lists with deep cuts, format, venues, curation of DM30, etc. I appreciate both, and I'm glad that Liam did what he did and played his strongest cards. However, that’s still just marketing. We're discussing who has the better solo career. Great marketing, changes in setlists and big gigs are a bonus, but they’re not the core of a good career. What would any of you think if asked the same question about someone else? Lennon or McCartney? When comparing their solo careers, which one stands out as better? Most of us base our opinions on their albums. If Lennon were alive today, playing gigs for 20 people and singing Yoko's songs, while McCartney was performing in stadiums, I would still judge their solo careers primarily by their albums. If their albums were equally strong, then I’d consider factors like audience size and marketing. And that’s all fine - others just have different criteria, or factor in a multitude of criteria when judging the “better career” question. |
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Post by Jim on Nov 4, 2024 12:10:12 GMT -5
Andy Bell.
Two fantastic “songwriter” albums and two, soon to be three electronic albums under his GLOK alias.
People talk about Noel trying something different, have a listen to Andy who took on a whole new genre and has been critically acclaimed by his peers such as Andrew Weatherall (RIP), David Holmes and more.
His live GLOK shows were mind blowing, a proper vibe.
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Post by oasisserbia on Nov 4, 2024 12:26:04 GMT -5
I appreciate both, and I'm glad that Liam did what he did and played his strongest cards. However, that’s still just marketing. We're discussing who has the better solo career. Great marketing, changes in setlists and big gigs are a bonus, but they’re not the core of a good career. What would any of you think if asked the same question about someone else? Lennon or McCartney? When comparing their solo careers, which one stands out as better? Most of us base our opinions on their albums. If Lennon were alive today, playing gigs for 20 people and singing Yoko's songs, while McCartney was performing in stadiums, I would still judge their solo careers primarily by their albums. If their albums were equally strong, then I’d consider factors like audience size and marketing. And that’s all fine - others just have different criteria, or factor in a multitude of criteria when judging the “better career” question. Of course it is fine but many of who just have different criteria than me are those who have problem to accept that others just have different criteria 😀 |
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Post by The Chief on Nov 4, 2024 13:12:43 GMT -5
I find it funny that you of all people are trying to pretend like your opinion on this matter is objective  Anyway, I agree with shannee on this. For them, it depends on what they consider to be success. For us, it depends which careers we preferred. ...and yes, we all know who you prefer... Anyhow, for me it's Noel simply because I'm not a huge fan of Liam's records. Even in Oasis, I was always more of a Noel fan when it comes to songs. I didn't enjoy or buy "C'mon you know" or his record with John Squire or his 13184 live records. So musically, to me, it's Noel. Live, they're both equal in my eyes. I don't care about crowd size because I'm not Liam or Noel and therefore it doesn't matter to me. I do know I never ever paid to go see him live because of how unreliable he was in the past. With Oasis, Noel could step in if Liam had an issue and we'd still get a gig. But I wouldn't have risked paying to see Liam on his own. I've seen Noel every time he came where I live. Can confirm that Liam grew up a LOT and got his act together in the solo years. Ok he had a couple of instances where he left the stage but it happened like twice in 7 years, added to the fact that he got a whole lot better at managing his voice over extended periods of time Yeah I'm missing a bit of context here. He came near where I live back in 2017 and that's when I didn't want to go because of the reliability thing and ironically he actually walked off from that gig because he had issues with his voicoe. After that, I don't even know if he came because I didn't enjoy his following records enough to justify going to see him live. But you're right, I haven't heard him walking out in years and his voice is not in a pretty good state. |
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Post by GlastoEls on Nov 4, 2024 13:17:44 GMT -5
And that’s all fine - others just have different criteria, or factor in a multitude of criteria when judging the “better career” question. Of course it is fine but many of who just have different criteria than me are those who have problem to accept that others just have different criteria 😀 That made me smile! |
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Rivers
Madferrit Fan
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Post by Rivers on Nov 4, 2024 13:20:52 GMT -5
If better is in terms of music, has to be Noel by a million miles for me. I loved the Liam/Squire move though.
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Post by Sadie on Nov 4, 2024 13:33:53 GMT -5
Can confirm that Liam grew up a LOT and got his act together in the solo years. Ok he had a couple of instances where he left the stage but it happened like twice in 7 years, added to the fact that he got a whole lot better at managing his voice over extended periods of time Yeah I'm missing a bit of context here. He came near where I live back in 2017 and that's when I didn't want to go because of the reliability thing and ironically he actually walked off from that gig because he had issues with his voicoe. After that, I don't even know if he came because I didn't enjoy his following records enough to justify going to see him live. But you're right, I haven't heard him walking out in years and his voice is not in a pretty good state. Both times I can remember him walking off stage during his solo career his voice was objectively shot to pieces so at least it was for a valid reason |
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Nov 4, 2024 13:53:53 GMT -5
Yeah I'm missing a bit of context here. He came near where I live back in 2017 and that's when I didn't want to go because of the reliability thing and ironically he actually walked off from that gig because he had issues with his voicoe. After that, I don't even know if he came because I didn't enjoy his following records enough to justify going to see him live. But you're right, I haven't heard him walking out in years and his voice is not in a pretty good state. Both times I can remember him walking off stage during his solo career his voice was objectively shot to pieces so at least it was for a valid reason Did you just like your own post? Who do you think you are, me??  |
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Post by Sadie on Nov 4, 2024 14:45:36 GMT -5
Both times I can remember him walking off stage during his solo career his voice was objectively shot to pieces so at least it was for a valid reason Did you just like your own post? Who do you think you are, me?? Didn't even notice that, oops  |
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Post by GIMH on Nov 4, 2024 14:57:55 GMT -5
Can we not have BOTH - pushing the boundaries in records ( matt I agree about 2000s Oasis) AND celebrating the concert (and again, this was really where Liam excelled as it wasn’t just “playing Oasis” it was diverse set lists with deep cuts, format, venues, curation of DM30, etc. I appreciate both, and I'm glad that Liam did what he did and played his strongest cards. However, that’s still just marketing. We're discussing who has the better solo career. Great marketing, changes in setlists and big gigs are a bonus, but they’re not the core of a good career. What would any of you think if asked the same question about someone else? Lennon or McCartney? When comparing their solo careers, which one stands out as better? Most of us base our opinions on their albums. If Lennon were alive today, playing gigs for 20 people and singing Yoko's songs, while McCartney was performing in stadiums, I would still judge their solo careers primarily by their albums. If their albums were equally strong, then I’d consider factors like audience size and marketing. McCartney. His best albums while they were both alive were as good as Lennon’s. More prolific so more filler, but still didn’t plumb the depths Lennon did with Some Time in New York City. And has barely missed a step from Flaming Pie onwards, though we’ll never know whether Lennon would have had a similar late career |
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Post by Officer Jim Kurring on Nov 4, 2024 19:02:59 GMT -5
This thread is becoming the festival of those who are angered by the fact that Liam objectively had a better solo career than Noel. Another ridiculous element that a good part of Noel's fans have in common is that everything about Liam's works is analyzed and criticized inch by inch while Noel has cleverly reworked his songwriting focused on plagiarism (he himself admitted to having become a millionaire by plagiarizing from anyone) is recognized by his fans as a Mozart. I'm guessing you found this because anyone else would have been electrocuted or blown up by one of my traps. Hehehehehehehehe. Take anything you need. The bunker code is the same as the gate code but in reverse. Anyway, I never liked you, but still, it's like we're friends... almost. And I respect you. So, I'm gonna tell you something because you're probably the only person who will understand. I used to hate the world, and I was happy when everyone died. But I was wrong because there was one person worth saving. That's what I did. I saved him. Then I protected him. That's why men like you and me are here. We have a job to do. And God help any motherfuckers who stand in our way. I leave you all of my weapons and equipment. Use them to keep... God bless. |
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Post by Officer Jim Kurring on Nov 4, 2024 21:43:19 GMT -5
By the way, just to get back on topic. If we're talking about the music, it has to be Noel - at least in my book. There are some truly great songs on the HFB albums: they might miss a magic spark (and we all know what it is, for the most part) but they still are among the best stuff post-BHN. If we're talking about pretty much everything else, it has to be Liam. Stage persona, management & PR, setlists, nostalgia, success with casual listeners & younger fans. About stage persona : noel had a strong stage persona at the beginning. I was surprised by the earlier gigs but he kinda lost it along the way. of course it cant rival Liam but its a different kind of aura. Its the aura of the geniuses. To sum up their solo career: brain versus face genuine versus fomoBut: heart versus heart too Fomo? No Spanish, this is an english language forum….. Thanks. |
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Post by Bonehead's Barber on Nov 4, 2024 21:51:47 GMT -5
It's mental that this is even a question. Noel's reputation rocketed then plummeted during his solo career, so much so that he actually reformed Oasis. He said he would never do it but now he has because he doesn't sell as many records any more.
Liam, on the other hand, has gone from the wilderness and potentially retiring, to regaining his status on the podium of British rock singers.
How on EARTH can people say Noel has had the more 'successful' solo career. Maybe his albums are more to your liking but they weren't as 'successful' as Liam. Not by any definition of the word.
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Post by herticalvorizon on Nov 4, 2024 22:26:51 GMT -5
Forget solo careers. Consider Gem for a minute. He got into Oasis, was a founding member of Beady Eye, Noel kinda bad mouthed him and Andy when he said that the rest of the band just stood there while the craziness was happening, went through personal hell and back, got into Noel Gallagher's High Flying Birds (or as Taylor Hawkins called them Potato Gallagher and the Low Charting Turds), and Vegas has him as being part of the reunion.
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Post by shannee on Nov 4, 2024 22:58:58 GMT -5
Just some estimates via google..
NGHFB 2.5 mill world
CY 350,000 UK
WBTM 300,000 UK
CS 60,000 UK
BTWWC 100,000 UK
Total est: 3.3 mill sales
Spotify 1,670,400 monthly listeners
Spotify Streams 685,862,142
Liam
AYW 315,000 uk + us
WMWN 100,000 uk
CYK 100,000 uk
LG JS 60,000 uk
Total est: 575,000 sales
Spotify 1,041,885 monthly listeners
Spotify streams 662,832,586
FYI Oasis Spotify streams 7,625,060,850
Sales 75 million +
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Post by andymorris on Nov 5, 2024 1:49:08 GMT -5
It's mental that this is even a question. Noel's reputation rocketed then plummeted during his solo career, so much so that he actually reformed Oasis. He said he would never do it but now he has because he doesn't sell as many records any more. Liam, on the other hand, has gone from the wilderness and potentially retiring, to regaining his status on the podium of British rock singers. How on EARTH can people say Noel has had the more 'successful' solo career. Maybe his albums are more to your liking but they weren't as 'successful' as Liam. Not by any definition of the word. facts please: see streams just up there, and... Noel wins hands down in album sales. Noel has been touring extensively since 2011 (i would say he even toured too much, way too much) but still mostly made sold out shows. Its only the last cycle that was "less" successful, but by no means a failure. All of 3 first Noel's records sold 2 to 3 times the 3 Liam's. So get your facts straight Liam sales are kinda lower, he's just riding on Oasis heavy setlists and doesnt count on his records to sell tickets. Even including beady Eye sales Liam does not touch Noel's total. NOEL GALLAGHER'S HIGH FLYING BIRDS (2011) NOEL GALLAGHER'S HIGH FLYING BIRDS Sales: 867,039 CHASING YESTERDAY (2015) NOEL GALLAGHER'S HIGH FLYING BIRDS Sales: 302,294 WHO BUILT THE MOON? (2017) NOEL GALLAGHER'S HIGH FLYING BIRDS Sales: 300,863 BACK THE WAY WE CAME - VOL 1 (2021) NOEL GALLAGHER'S HIGH FLYING BIRDS Sales: 100,000 DIFFERENT GEAR, STILL SPEEDING (2011) BEADY EYE Sales: 102,306 BE (2013) BEADY EYE Sales: 60,000 AS YOU WERE (2017) LIAM GALLAGHER Sales: 301,297 C'MON YOU KNOW (2022) LIAM GALLAGHER Sales: 100,000 WHY ME WHY NOT (2019) LIAM GALLAGHER Sales: 100,000 Liam/Squire: around 40k Noel CS: around 60k Noel has a succesful quiet career, Liam has had a succesful loud career, and it works, most people think he made it better. |
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Post by mimmihopps on Nov 5, 2024 4:01:37 GMT -5
Andy Bell. Two fantastic “songwriter” albums and two, soon to be three electronic albums under his GLOK alias. People talk about Noel trying something different, have a listen to Andy who took on a whole new genre and has been critically acclaimed by his peers such as Andrew Weatherall (RIP), David Holmes and more. His live GLOK shows were mind blowing, a proper vibe. |
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Post by artumlobov on Nov 5, 2024 4:02:04 GMT -5
It's mental that this is even a question. Noel's reputation rocketed then plummeted during his solo career, so much so that he actually reformed Oasis. He said he would never do it but now he has because he doesn't sell as many records any more. Liam, on the other hand, has gone from the wilderness and potentially retiring, to regaining his status on the podium of British rock singers. How on EARTH can people say Noel has had the more 'successful' solo career. Maybe his albums are more to your liking but they weren't as 'successful' as Liam. Not by any definition of the word. facts please: see streams just up there, and... Noel wins hands down in album sales. Noel has been touring extensively since 2011 (i would say he even toured too much, way too much) but still mostly made sold out shows. Its only the last cycle that was "less" successful, but by no means a failure. All of 3 first Noel's records sold 2 to 3 times the 3 Liam's. So get your facts straight Liam sales are kinda lower, he's just riding on Oasis heavy setlists and doesnt count on his records to sell tickets. Even including beady Eye sales Liam does not touch Noel's total. NOEL GALLAGHER'S HIGH FLYING BIRDS (2011) NOEL GALLAGHER'S HIGH FLYING BIRDS Sales: 867,039 CHASING YESTERDAY (2015) NOEL GALLAGHER'S HIGH FLYING BIRDS Sales: 302,294 WHO BUILT THE MOON? (2017) NOEL GALLAGHER'S HIGH FLYING BIRDS Sales: 300,863 BACK THE WAY WE CAME - VOL 1 (2021) NOEL GALLAGHER'S HIGH FLYING BIRDS Sales: 100,000 DIFFERENT GEAR, STILL SPEEDING (2011) BEADY EYE Sales: 102,306 BE (2013) BEADY EYE Sales: 60,000 AS YOU WERE (2017) LIAM GALLAGHER Sales: 301,297 C'MON YOU KNOW (2022) LIAM GALLAGHER Sales: 100,000 WHY ME WHY NOT (2019) LIAM GALLAGHER Sales: 100,000 Liam/Squire: around 40k Noel CS: around 60k Noel has a succesful quiet career, Liam has had a succesful loud career, and it works, most people think he made it better.just before Record sales are not really a fair comparison. Noel's first album came just before album sales crumbled for everyone. I'd say Noel and Liam's first solo albums had a similar level of success in the UK but the opportunity to sell records for Noel was far greater. Also, Noel pretty much choose, or sabotaged, his career after his first album with not wanting to move up to headlining festivals or playing stadiums in the UK. There was a lot of talk of being comfortable in arenas and not wanting to push things further. I would guess he regrets that now. They both play 40-50% Oasis tunes in their sets. Regardless of who wrote them, I don't think either of them are dependent on past glories more than the other. If anything atleast Liam varies the tunes and plays deeper stuff. Noel's set has featured the same 8-10 Oasis tunes for the last 15 years. Hopefully Liam gets a big input on the setlists for the Oasis tours as he is a lot better at creating them. |
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Post by Flashbax on Nov 5, 2024 4:10:27 GMT -5
Quality: Noel
Quantity: Liam
Noel better, Liam more successful.
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Henrz
Madferrit Fan
Posts: 67
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Post by Henrz on Nov 5, 2024 4:53:04 GMT -5
I appreciate both, and I'm glad that Liam did what he did and played his strongest cards. However, that’s still just marketing. We're discussing who has the better solo career. Great marketing, changes in setlists and big gigs are a bonus, but they’re not the core of a good career. What would any of you think if asked the same question about someone else? Lennon or McCartney? When comparing their solo careers, which one stands out as better? Most of us base our opinions on their albums. If Lennon were alive today, playing gigs for 20 people and singing Yoko's songs, while McCartney was performing in stadiums, I would still judge their solo careers primarily by their albums. If their albums were equally strong, then I’d consider factors like audience size and marketing. McCartney. His best albums while they were both alive were as good as Lennon’s. More prolific so more filler, but still didn’t plumb the depths Lennon did with Some Time in New York City. And has barely missed a step from Flaming Pie onwards, though we’ll never know whether Lennon would have had a similar late career I actually quite like Some Time In New York City. It's a bit dated, but I don't dislike it as much as the general opinion of that album. What I dislike is the second disc. It should have just been a single album. Kind of like how I think the third LP of George Harrison's All Things Must Pass could have been left off. Now regarding McCartney's output since Flaming Pie... that to me has been a winning streak. As you say, he has rarely missed since then. |
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Henrz
Madferrit Fan
Posts: 67
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Post by Henrz on Nov 5, 2024 5:10:26 GMT -5
About stage persona : noel had a strong stage persona at the beginning. I was surprised by the earlier gigs but he kinda lost it along the way. of course it cant rival Liam but its a different kind of aura. Its the aura of the geniuses. To sum up their solo career: brain versus face genuine versus fomoBut: heart versus heart too Fomo? No Spanish, this is an english language forum….. Thanks. I think he means fomo as in "fear of missing out" |
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Post by GlastoEls on Nov 5, 2024 5:16:57 GMT -5
Yes, a bit off topic here but Macca definitely on a late career high with Egypt, 3, etc.
I love those two especially.
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Post by andymorris on Nov 5, 2024 5:42:25 GMT -5
facts please: see streams just up there, and... Noel wins hands down in album sales. Noel has been touring extensively since 2011 (i would say he even toured too much, way too much) but still mostly made sold out shows. Its only the last cycle that was "less" successful, but by no means a failure. All of 3 first Noel's records sold 2 to 3 times the 3 Liam's. So get your facts straight Liam sales are kinda lower, he's just riding on Oasis heavy setlists and doesnt count on his records to sell tickets. Even including beady Eye sales Liam does not touch Noel's total. NOEL GALLAGHER'S HIGH FLYING BIRDS (2011) NOEL GALLAGHER'S HIGH FLYING BIRDS Sales: 867,039 CHASING YESTERDAY (2015) NOEL GALLAGHER'S HIGH FLYING BIRDS Sales: 302,294 WHO BUILT THE MOON? (2017) NOEL GALLAGHER'S HIGH FLYING BIRDS Sales: 300,863 BACK THE WAY WE CAME - VOL 1 (2021) NOEL GALLAGHER'S HIGH FLYING BIRDS Sales: 100,000 DIFFERENT GEAR, STILL SPEEDING (2011) BEADY EYE Sales: 102,306 BE (2013) BEADY EYE Sales: 60,000 AS YOU WERE (2017) LIAM GALLAGHER Sales: 301,297 C'MON YOU KNOW (2022) LIAM GALLAGHER Sales: 100,000 WHY ME WHY NOT (2019) LIAM GALLAGHER Sales: 100,000 Liam/Squire: around 40k Noel CS: around 60k Noel has a succesful quiet career, Liam has had a succesful loud career, and it works, most people think he made it better.just before Record sales are not really a fair comparison. Noel's first album came just before album sales crumbled for everyone. I'd say Noel and Liam's first solo albums had a similar level of success in the UK but the opportunity to sell records for Noel was far greater. Also, Noel pretty much choose, or sabotaged, his career after his first album with not wanting to move up to headlining festivals or playing stadiums in the UK. There was a lot of talk of being comfortable in arenas and not wanting to push things further. I would guess he regrets that now. They both play 40-50% Oasis tunes in their sets. Regardless of who wrote them, I don't think either of them are dependent on past glories more than the other. If anything atleast Liam varies the tunes and plays deeper stuff. Noel's set has featured the same 8-10 Oasis tunes for the last 15 years. Hopefully Liam gets a big input on the setlists for the Oasis tours as he is a lot better at creating them. If you take the facts eg streams and record sales, Noel's career is better, I included Beady eye in Liam's solo career and they debuted before Noel ! Its not being fair or anything, its just numbers, solid numbers. Now i dont think we have the numbers for tours, but it looks like they are samey. Surely Liam did bigger and more "famous" gigs but Noel toured extensively to almost sold out shows since 2011. According setlist.fm Noel did 547 solo shows while Liam did 274 solo and Beady eye 158. So yet again, Noel beats Liam, probably in the number of people attending too. but maybe not by much. Doing one or even a couple of "huge" shows like Knebworth doesn't mean you attracted more people. Liam just did high paying and fomo shows, when Noel toured "the old" way for his fanbase and festivals. As far as setlist go, Noel did play more solo songs than Liam. Liam started at around 9 solo songs in 2017 and just around 7 in 2022, When Noel played roughly 11 to 13 songs, both have 20 / 21 songs setlists. So Noel plays more than 50% when Liam slowly when from a bit less to 50% to less than 40%. So yeah, Noel wins, but that does not mean Liam's career was shit; It's what it is, a nostalgia act hidden between low selling albums. All in all it was a good time for both of them to reunite Oasis, i'm not sure Liam could have continued releasing those kind of albums without people slowly losing interests. It was a good run for him and he's in a good shape, singing well. Good for him. But numbers say Noel. And This is not usually a factor i take into account. |
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Post by artumlobov on Nov 5, 2024 5:51:49 GMT -5
Record sales are not really a fair comparison. Noel's first album came just before album sales crumbled for everyone. I'd say Noel and Liam's first solo albums had a similar level of success in the UK but the opportunity to sell records for Noel was far greater. Also, Noel pretty much choose, or sabotaged, his career after his first album with not wanting to move up to headlining festivals or playing stadiums in the UK. There was a lot of talk of being comfortable in arenas and not wanting to push things further. I would guess he regrets that now. They both play 40-50% Oasis tunes in their sets. Regardless of who wrote them, I don't think either of them are dependent on past glories more than the other. If anything atleast Liam varies the tunes and plays deeper stuff. Noel's set has featured the same 8-10 Oasis tunes for the last 15 years. Hopefully Liam gets a big input on the setlists for the Oasis tours as he is a lot better at creating them. If you take the facts eg streams and record sales, Noel's career is better. Noel's first album sold 2/3 times more in the UK but was only the 14th biggest selling album of 2011. Liam's first album was the 9th biggest selling of 2017 in the UK. This is because the way people bought and listened to albums significantly changed the size of the market. Context is important in comparing their solo career peaks :-) Council Skies did okay and Noel stopped having problems selling out theatres. He sort of bounced back. Now he gets to play stadiums with Liam involved. Everything is good for Noel. No need to bend lots of information to pretend he was half as big as Liam though. |
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Post by vespa on Nov 5, 2024 7:26:43 GMT -5
Record sales wise it’s Noel , gig wise Liam . But Noel’s played some pretty big shows of his own , 25,000 plus .
The weird thing is that even though they’ve never charted too high they still shift 100,000s of singles on some songs think what a life is at over 600k , the rest have all done 200k and Noel’s ep have sold very well so their record sales in total have I think far surpassed what they’d imagine for middle aged rock stars . Liam is up there as the countries biggest solo star.
I think biggest hint of the reunion though was council skies if you look and listen he came full circle on that , didn’t really promote it and just did minor tour with some big home gigs and that was it where as that’s his best stuff in awhile .
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Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5