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Post by World71R on Mar 26, 2021 10:04:15 GMT -5
Ain't it just great that Biden bombed Syria and probably killed the $15 minimum wage? What a fantastic start to a presidency. Syria getting bombed is egregious but the $15 minimum wage getting killed was out of Biden's control. The Senate parliamentarian killed that when the COVID-19 bill reached the Senate floor. I know $15 minimum wage was part of a "bold, progressive vision" but if it was going to face a challenge like that, then a $12 minimum wage would've been smarter. That would've elevated states with a low minimum wage up to states with a higher minimum wage and made things nice for working class people. Anyways, I also don't get how that was such an oversight by Biden and his team when Biden was in the Senate for 30+ years, so you could chalk it up to be a Biden gaffe in that sense.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Mar 26, 2021 13:39:43 GMT -5
Ain't it just great that Biden bombed Syria and probably killed the $15 minimum wage? What a fantastic start to a presidency. Syria getting bombed is egregious but the $15 minimum wage getting killed was out of Biden's control. The Senate parliamentarian killed that when the COVID-19 bill reached the Senate floor. The problem with that thinking is that it was merely a recommendation, not a declaration. He could have ignored the advice and pushed the issue to force a vote. Biden chose the way out that didn't require he actually fight for anything he believes in. My personal theory is that he simply doesn't believe in raising it. And if he does, certainly not to a living wage.
$12 might be an improvement, but it's not a solution. Raising the minimum wage from a non-living wage to a non-living wage is not a solution. It's putting corporate interest as a priority over the people.
I can't be too upset though, because that type of politicking is exactly what he promised during his campaign. "Nothing will fundamentally change."
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Post by matt on Mar 26, 2021 14:31:14 GMT -5
And, didn't you once support George Bush. I did. People change. 🤷🏻 Wow, you've really gone batshit crazy.
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Post by tiger40 on Mar 26, 2021 14:50:53 GMT -5
Wow, you've really gone batshit crazy. That made me laugh. 😀 However, the question is will he ever turn against his beloved Trump?
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Post by matt on Mar 26, 2021 15:06:02 GMT -5
I'm surprised that the leftists refuse to take stock of what Biden actually wants to do which seem pretty fundamental to me. I find it difficult to comprehend that a President making a $1.9tn stimulus pledge to attempt to cut child poverty in half is 'no different from Trump'. Might not make a difference to those on the left who have the privilege to argue ideology and idealise about radical change, but will make a whole world of difference to those in poverty. Including a pledged $3tn programme on infrastructure, green energy and education. And also, a president who is hellbent on fighting voter suppression (that Republicans aim to keep black people away from the ballot) is a much better politician than one with more radical ideas but ultimately has no chance of power or convincing the general electorate (i.e. Sanders). Seems like as big a policy on redistribution of wealth (toxic words in America surely?) which is registering with the electorate since Biden came in.
It's not ideal or radical but it does seem like common sense. But then again, we don't live in an ideal world and its been bereft of common sense for ages. So I think he is the best person for the job and you have to question the sincerity of progressives 'empathy' towards the common man when such ambitions and aspirations aren't acknowledged. Imagine risking such liberties just for the sake of your own personal idealism? That's madness. What's worrying is that a petty ideological debate is much more appealing to these folk, tribalism without any recognition of things that will make a difference which will ultimately distort the message and bring in a brain addled raving loons like Trump (and his idiot supporters) again. I do genuinely believe that, while it looks dull on the surface, it is the best possible solution at this moment.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Mar 26, 2021 17:15:13 GMT -5
I'm surprised that the leftists refuse to take stock of what Biden actually wants to do which seem pretty fundamental to me. I find it difficult to comprehend that a President making a $1.9tn stimulus pledge to attempt to cut child poverty in half is 'no different from Trump'. Might not make a difference to those on the left who have the privilege to argue ideology and idealise about radical change, but will make a whole world of difference to those in poverty. Including a pledged $3tn programme on infrastructure, green energy and education. And also, a president who is hellbent on fighting voter suppression (that Republicans aim to keep black people away from the ballot) is a much better politician than one with more radical ideas but ultimately has no chance of power or convincing the general electorate (i.e. Sanders). Seems like as big a policy on redistribution of wealth (toxic words in America surely?) which is registering with the electorate since Biden came in. Wants to do vs what he does do. Acta non verba!
If Biden is so great, why hasn't he canceled all federal student debt in this crisis? Why hasn't he pushed a bill for monthly checks until this crisis is over? Why hasn't he supported Medicare For All? Why didn't he fight for $15 minimum wage? These are the issues that matter. The issues that can't currently wait. And the issues which would objectively cut ALL poverty. And I find your tidbit about voter suppression a tad disgusting, because we both know what sort of suppression went on during 2016 on the Democratic side of things and likely, but not certainly again in 2020 against the very candidate you lambast. You think Biden is knocking down his own door to fight voter suppression which is as rampant as the GOP? Think again.
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Post by matt on Mar 26, 2021 17:18:09 GMT -5
I'm surprised that the leftists refuse to take stock of what Biden actually wants to do which seem pretty fundamental to me. I find it difficult to comprehend that a President making a $1.9tn stimulus pledge to attempt to cut child poverty in half is 'no different from Trump'. Might not make a difference to those on the left who have the privilege to argue ideology and idealise about radical change, but will make a whole world of difference to those in poverty. Including a pledged $3tn programme on infrastructure, green energy and education. And also, a president who is hellbent on fighting voter suppression (that Republicans aim to keep black people away from the ballot) is a much better politician than one with more radical ideas but ultimately has no chance of power or convincing the general electorate (i.e. Sanders). Seems like as big a policy on redistribution of wealth (toxic words in America surely?) which is registering with the electorate since Biden came in. Wants to do vs what he does do. Acta non verba!
If Biden is so great, why hasn't he canceled all federal student debt in this crisis? Why hasn't he pushed a bill for monthly checks until this crisis is over? Why hasn't he supported Medicare For All? Why didn't he fight for $15 minimum wage? These are the issues that matter. The issues that can't currently wait. And the issues which would objectively cut ALL poverty. And I find your tidbit about voter suppression a tad disgusting, because we both know what sort of suppression went on during 2016 on the Democratic side of things and likely, but not certainly again in 2020 against the very candidate you lambast. You think Biden is knocking down his own door to fight voter suppression? Think again.
Tad disgusting? Bit melodramatic.... As I say, it's not ideal, but it's better than nothing and many folk in worse off situations than yourself will be better off.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Mar 26, 2021 17:34:27 GMT -5
Wants to do vs what he does do. Acta non verba!
If Biden is so great, why hasn't he canceled all federal student debt in this crisis? Why hasn't he pushed a bill for monthly checks until this crisis is over? Why hasn't he supported Medicare For All? Why didn't he fight for $15 minimum wage? These are the issues that matter. The issues that can't currently wait. And the issues which would objectively cut ALL poverty. And I find your tidbit about voter suppression a tad disgusting, because we both know what sort of suppression went on during 2016 on the Democratic side of things and likely, but not certainly again in 2020 against the very candidate you lambast. You think Biden is knocking down his own door to fight voter suppression? Think again.
Tad disgusting? Bit melodramatic.... As I say, it's not ideal, but it's better than nothing and many folk in worse off situations than yourself will be better off. Will they really? There's massive amounts of people who are behind 6 or more months on rent or mortgage. Does a piddling single $1400 check solve that crisis? What happens when the moratoriums on evictions end for those people? What about the people getting charged hundreds of thousands of dollars or in some case, even millions for their covid treatments? What do they do?
Better than nothing isn't good enough.
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Post by matt on Mar 26, 2021 19:51:34 GMT -5
Tad disgusting? Bit melodramatic.... As I say, it's not ideal, but it's better than nothing and many folk in worse off situations than yourself will be better off. Will they really? There's massive amounts of people who are behind 6 or more months on rent or mortgage. Does a piddling single $1400 check solve that crisis? What happens when the moratoriums on evictions end for those people? What about the people getting charged hundreds of thousands of dollars or in some case, even millions for their covid treatments? What do they do?
Better than nothing isn't good enough.
Lucky you if you think $1400 is piddling. Nobody said it would be perfect, the reality is that not everyone will be happy but one of the largest stimuluses in recent times will be transformational for many more. So it's just nitpicking. I really doubt the sincerity of the so called progressives when they're poo pooing such efforts at the minute - it's all mere self-preservation dressed up in 'empathy' for the ego. But hey, no different from Trump eh?
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Mar 26, 2021 20:48:29 GMT -5
Will they really? There's massive amounts of people who are behind 6 or more months on rent or mortgage. Does a piddling single $1400 check solve that crisis? What happens when the moratoriums on evictions end for those people? What about the people getting charged hundreds of thousands of dollars or in some case, even millions for their covid treatments? What do they do?
Better than nothing isn't good enough.
Lucky you if you think $1400 is piddling. Nobody said it would be perfect, the reality is that not everyone will be happy but one of the largest stimuluses in recent times will be transformational for many more. So it's just nitpicking. I really doubt the sincerity of the so called progressives when they're poo pooing such efforts at the minute - it's all mere self-preservation dressed up in 'empathy' for the ego. But hey, no different from Trump eh? $1400 is piddling when you are 6-12 months behind on rent, which latest estimates I've seen is something like 20 million Americans who are $6k or more behind. When your rent is $700 -1500 a month alone, ignoring all other necessary bills that still need to be paid to survive, it's absolutely a piddling amount. When factoring in how many Americans don't have emergency funds, the amount is piddling. I'm not suggesting it doesn't help, I am saying it's insignificant for a lot of impoverished people. It's not going to keep you from drowning. If it were every month until the crisis is over and even a few months after, that's a different matter. The check should have been minimum $2000 and recurring if they actually wanted to bailout citizens, especially the poor.
There's is going to be a huge housing crisis among the poor and lower middle class when the moratoriums expire.
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Post by Jessica on Mar 26, 2021 21:10:13 GMT -5
Matt, my parents house mortgage is $1,700 and the health insurance that is mostly for my mother is another $1,000. The rest of my dad's paycheck goes to car insurance, gas, electricity, water, food, internet (but no cable). $1,400 is a lot of money to someone, but you don't want the people who've worked all their life to get where they are to fall behind and lose their house and possessions, have to blow through their savings, and put everything on credit cards.
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Post by girllikeabomb on Mar 27, 2021 1:59:33 GMT -5
The thing is that the $1600 was intended by Congress, despite massive miscommunication on this point, as a stimulus, not as a rescue. It’s clearly not going to go very far for most Americans. If you live in LA or New York, it won’t even touch your rent long before you get to food, insurance, medicine, heat, etcetera. And for people already on the edge, it's not going to be any kind of life preserver. But the check itself is not meant to dig people out of desperate straits. The stimulus check is what it says is it: a little extra spending money so that those who are able will pump it into the economy (and those who aren't able will get a small boost). That's it.
That said, it’s the rest of the Covid bill that helps poor people far beyond the check and that’s where the substance is. For real, this is some of the strongest anti-poverty legislation to ever make it through Congress. (That’s not saying much, perhaps, but it’s still a triumph.) The child tax credit is huge for families, there are significant new health subsides (and if anyone here gets their healthcare through Obamacare, you should check it out), the unemployment supplement will keep millions afloat until Covid lets up, and it funnels tons of money to local food and school programs that will help impoverished kids who have been largely forgotten. The Washington Post did an analysis that showed that a lower class family of four in Massachusetts with one unemployed wage earner would get $66,000 in a combination of child tax credits, unemployment benefits and stimulus checks from the bill. That’s more help than you’d think if you just talk about the stimulus check.
Of course, this is still not nearly enough. Many are still falling through the cracks, times are still very tough, and there’s a long, long way to go to address massive income inequality. But for all that, the bill is better than a lot of people think -- and nearly a miracle (a Georgia miracle, really) that it happened at all in this atmosphere.
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Post by World71R on Mar 27, 2021 17:18:55 GMT -5
The thing is that the $1600 was intended by Congress, despite massive miscommunication on this point, as a stimulus, not as a rescue. It’s clearly not going to go very far for most Americans. If you live in LA or New York, it won’t even touch your rent long before you get to food, insurance, medicine, heat, etcetera. And for people already on the edge, it's not going to be any kind of life preserver. But the check itself is not meant to dig people out of desperate straits. The stimulus check is what it says is it: a little extra spending money so that those who are able will pump it into the economy (and those who aren't able will get a small boost). That's it. That said, it’s the rest of the Covid bill that helps poor people far beyond the check and that’s where the substance is. For real, this is some of the strongest anti-poverty legislation to ever make it through Congress. (That’s not saying much, perhaps, but it’s still a triumph.) The child tax credit is huge for families, there are significant new health subsides (and if anyone here gets their healthcare through Obamacare, you should check it out), the unemployment supplement will keep millions afloat until Covid lets up, and it funnels tons of money to local food and school programs that will help impoverished kids who have been largely forgotten. The Washington Post did an analysis that showed that a lower class family of four in Massachusetts with one unemployed wage earner would get $66,000 in a combination of child tax credits, unemployment benefits and stimulus checks from the bill. That’s more help than you’d think if you just talk about the stimulus check. Of course, this is still not nearly enough. Many are still falling through the cracks, times are still very tough, and there’s a long, long way to go to address massive income inequality. But for all that, the bill is better than a lot of people think -- and nearly a miracle (a Georgia miracle, really) that it happened at all in this atmosphere. For college students, too, who are struggling to pay their bills while slogging through school to elevate themselves from the working class families they come from, there is relief in there that helps them out. I fall into that category and can attest to it, and I'm extremely grateful for it too. The big thing is keeping this up beyond the pandemic. We need to get things like mandated sick leave, maternity leave, and some time off passed through Congress next, as well as a minimum wage increase & stronger legislation affecting corporations to ensure workers get their due dilligence.
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Post by girllikeabomb on Mar 28, 2021 21:16:50 GMT -5
For college students, too, who are struggling to pay their bills while slogging through school to elevate themselves from the working class families they come from, there is relief in there that helps them out. I fall into that category and can attest to it, and I'm extremely grateful for it too. The big thing is keeping this up beyond the pandemic. We need to get things like mandated sick leave, maternity leave, and some time off passed through Congress next, as well as a minimum wage increase & stronger legislation affecting corporations to ensure workers get their due dilligence. Well said. All of this ^
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Apr 15, 2021 17:55:39 GMT -5
I thought I saw a specific Chauvin thread. I guess not. Putting this here then...
_____
Is the Chauvin Trial the Trial of ‘this’ Century? (R.f., OJ Simpson, 1995).
I think so, based on the dire consequences from what should a be verdict of ‘Not Guilty’ based on way too much reasonable doubt, but which will most likely result in a Hung Trial.
Riots exacerbate and explode all over the nation.
This is the problem of jumping to conclusions, and the media setting a certain narrative, with a predetermined outcome.
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Post by World71R on Apr 15, 2021 20:59:09 GMT -5
I thought I saw a specific Chauvin thread. I guess not. Putting this here then... _____ Is the Chauvin Trial the Trial of ‘this’ Century? (R.f., OJ Simpson, 1995). I think so, based on the dire consequences from what should a be verdict of ‘Not Guilty’ based on way too much reasonable doubt, but which will most likely result in a Hung Trial. Riots exacerbate and explode all over the nation. This is the problem of jumping to conclusions, and the media setting a certain narrative, with a predetermined outcome. This is ridiculous. We literally saw him kneeling on George Floyd's neck for 8 minutes, 46 seconds. It's not the media setting a certain narrative or outcome... it's blatantly obvious, like someone on the street shooting an innocent person out of nowhere.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Apr 15, 2021 21:06:10 GMT -5
I thought I saw a specific Chauvin thread. I guess not. Putting this here then... _____ Is the Chauvin Trial the Trial of ‘this’ Century? (R.f., OJ Simpson, 1995). I think so, based on the dire consequences from what should a be verdict of ‘Not Guilty’ based on way too much reasonable doubt, but which will most likely result in a Hung Trial. Riots exacerbate and explode all over the nation. This is the problem of jumping to conclusions, and the media setting a certain narrative, with a predetermined outcome. This is ridiculous. We literally saw him kneeling on George Floyd's neck for 8 minutes, 46 seconds. It's not the media setting a certain narrative or outcome... it's blatantly obvious, like someone on the street shooting an innocent person out of nowhere. So your view from the TV exceeds the legal system and the intelligence of that system from the most elite of legal degrees for all attorneys involved? Okay. So much for listening to the experts. There’s your opinion. And then there’s the legal system. They are not one and the same.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Apr 15, 2021 21:10:10 GMT -5
Its not about finding him innocent (surely we all know this by now....?).
It’s all about proving beyond a reasonable doubt.
There’s too many mitigating elements to be totally sure. Sorry but that’s how it works.
He will not be found guilty of murder, i will assure you that.
My bet is on a hung jury. Mistrial.
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Post by globe on Apr 16, 2021 2:42:07 GMT -5
Its not about finding him innocent (surely we all know this by now....?). It’s all about proving beyond a reasonable doubt. There’s too many mitigating elements to be totally sure. Sorry but that’s how it works. He will not be found guilty of murder, i will assure you that. My bet is on a hung jury. Mistrial. And what’s your view on it? Do you think he murdered Floyd?
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Post by girllikeabomb on Apr 16, 2021 3:03:32 GMT -5
Its not about finding him innocent (surely we all know this by now....?). It’s all about proving beyond a reasonable doubt. There’s too many mitigating elements to be totally sure. Sorry but that’s how it works. He will not be found guilty of murder, i will assure you that. My bet is on a hung jury. Mistrial. No idea what you're talking about. Chauvin faces three charges, none of which is murder in the first degree. He is charged with second degree unintentional murder (which means he killed someone without intending to do so while committing a crime, which in this case would be excessive use of force/battery), third-degree murder (which means he killed someone without intending to do so but because he was acting in a way that most would interpret as dangerous) and with second-degree manslaughter (which means he killed someone not intentionally, but due to his own negligence.) There is considerable proof for each these charges and the prosecution has built a case for each. No one can say how the jury will rule, and juries notoriously find it hard to side against police, but this isn't really a case about "reasonable doubt." There is exceptional evidence, including video from multiple angles and numerous eyewitnesses, far more than usual in such cases.
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Post by funhouse on Apr 16, 2021 4:13:44 GMT -5
I thought I saw a specific Chauvin thread. I guess not. Putting this here then... _____ Is the Chauvin Trial the Trial of ‘this’ Century? (R.f., OJ Simpson, 1995). I think so, based on the dire consequences from what should a be verdict of ‘Not Guilty’ based on way too much reasonable doubt, but which will most likely result in a Hung Derek Chauvin. Damn, based!
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Apr 25, 2021 20:16:58 GMT -5
Anyone know why the Biden Gaffe thread got locked? I didn’t see any conflict at all - ever more impressive considering the thread topic (!). I’m making a suggestion to perhaps unlock the Gaffe thread as it filters out quite a bit of nonsense from this overall Biden’s Presidency thread. Thanks for your consideration. mimmihopps, eva
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Post by mimmihopps on Apr 26, 2021 2:11:16 GMT -5
Anyone know why the Biden Gaffe thread got locked? I didn’t see any conflict at all - ever more impressive considering the thread topic (!). I’m making a suggestion to perhaps unlock the Gaffe thread as it filters out quite a bit of nonsense from this overall Biden’s Presidency thread. Thanks for your consideration. mimmihopps, evaDenied.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Apr 26, 2021 12:34:55 GMT -5
Anyone know why the Biden Gaffe thread got locked? I didn’t see any conflict at all - ever more impressive considering the thread topic (!). I’m making a suggestion to perhaps unlock the Gaffe thread as it filters out quite a bit of nonsense from this overall Biden’s Presidency thread. Thanks for your consideration. mimmihopps, evaDenied. Fair enough. Thought it was worth asking.
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Post by matt on Apr 26, 2021 13:36:47 GMT -5
Anyone know why the Biden Gaffe thread got locked? I didn’t see any conflict at all - ever more impressive considering the thread topic (!). I’m making a suggestion to perhaps unlock the Gaffe thread as it filters out quite a bit of nonsense from this overall Biden’s Presidency thread. Thanks for your consideration. mimmihopps, evaBecause there are no gaffes, certainly relative to that fake billionaire paedophile rapist you're fanatical about.
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