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Post by Diamond in The Dark on May 20, 2022 4:38:29 GMT -5
I think all years (except hiatus ones) should be presented separately in the poll. I swear his voice changed at least a bit every year Yes, his voice actually changes month to month at certain times, but I had to generalize a bit to create the poll
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Post by dazed on May 20, 2022 8:41:37 GMT -5
On the other hand, he just played 15 shows in 30 days, all at 20,000 seat arenas. It sure beats delivering Amazon packages in your 60s. true but fans are feeling ripped off and walking out of his shows... Watching this whole tour play out publicly has given me new appreciation for the work Liam's put into rehabbing his voice and the effort put into the intricacies of the songs again when he could so easily say sod it, I'm just "being muhself".
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Post by girllikeabomb on May 20, 2022 16:59:27 GMT -5
On the other hand, he just played 15 shows in 30 days, all at 20,000 seat arenas. It sure beats delivering Amazon packages in your 60s. true but fans are feeling ripped off and walking out of his shows... Watching this whole tour play out publicly has given me new appreciation for the work Liam's put into rehabbing his voice and the effort put into the intricacies of the songs again when he could so easily say sod it, I'm just "being muhself".
Oh, 100% agree. No Bon Jovi fan here, but it's kind of amazing that he can still sell 20,000-seat arenas. There's something to "once an arena band always an arena band" in the US. Bon Jovi still reaping the benefits of that. And sadly, though he's more deserving, Liam could not play the arenas that Bon Jovi does here (which is why it's probably a financial mess touring in the USA for Liam especially with Covid-era insurance policies.)
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Post by dazed on May 20, 2022 21:37:36 GMT -5
true but fans are feeling ripped off and walking out of his shows... Watching this whole tour play out publicly has given me new appreciation for the work Liam's put into rehabbing his voice and the effort put into the intricacies of the songs again when he could so easily say sod it, I'm just "being muhself".
Oh, 100% agree. No Bon Jovi fan here, but it's kind of amazing that he can still sell 20,000-seat arenas. There's something to "once an arena band always an arena band" in the US. Bon Jovi still reaping the benefits of that. And sadly, though he's more deserving, Liam could not play the arenas that Bon Jovi does here (which is why it's probably a financial mess touring in the USA for Liam especially with Covid-era insurance policies.)
"Deserving" is a wishy washy one to get into with the arts. And amazing is the right word because this might be the worst I've ever heard from a big time singer. I think if you asked someone to sing as badly as possible with special emphasis on trying to make every other instrument sound out of tune too then you'd find it hard to do as well as he did here. Its that horrific. I don't think they'll be in arenas for long unless theres some drastic vocal improvement. I'm seeing fan videos saying they've seen them for the last time. I also feel quite concerned for the guy because it seems to be a neurological issue not unlike what preceded Linda Ronstadt's retirement. One simply cannot keep taking the fan's money for that level of performance as well which makes me think back to the worst of Liam... It NEVER got that bad, 09, 06, never. Nobody ever demanded their money back or walked out for that reason as far as I'm aware. If someone on here has then please correct me. I remember videos in 09 titled "Liam's voice is dying" showing him struggling through Live Forever at Melt! Germany, that was like an X Factor performance by comparison
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Post by girllikeabomb on May 20, 2022 23:06:00 GMT -5
"Deserving" is a wishy washy one to get into with the arts. And amazing is the right word because this might be the worst I've ever heard from a big time singer. I think if you asked someone to sing as badly as possible with special emphasis on trying to make every other instrument sound out of tune too then you'd find it hard to do as well as he did here. Its that horrific. I don't think they'll be in arenas for long unless theres some drastic vocal improvement. I'm seeing fan videos saying they've seen them for the last time. I also feel quite concerned for the guy because it seems to be a neurological issue not unlike what preceded Linda Ronstadt's retirement. One simply cannot keep taking the fan's money for that level of performance as well which makes me think back to the worst of Liam... It NEVER got that bad, 09, 06, never. Nobody ever demanded their money back or walked out for that reason as far as I'm aware. If someone on here has then please correct me. I remember videos in 09 titled "Liam's voice is dying" showing him struggling through Live Forever at Melt! Germany, that was like an X Factor performance by comparison Certainly wasn’t pronouncing myself the arbiter of deserving! Just writing sloppily in a hurry.
I meant that even though Liam is currently at a whole other level of singing from Bon Jovi (echoing your point), he’ll still be playing 1500-seater clubs here in the States if and when he ever returns (but we'll still go crazy for him, I promise.)
Though I think JBJ has been declining for at least a decade (remember seeing him struggle mightily on TV years ago), he is acknowledged to be one of the wealthiest rock singers in the world (in a stratosphere well beyond the Gallaghers). Unlike many, he's always had extremely profitable tours so I'm sure it seems natural to just keep going with them, though maybe this one truly was the last hurrah.
I can’t say I know about his health situation, but he is of course in an age group where even the best rock singers (which I dare say he never was) lose both power and range (as well as hearing) and have to learn to adapt (or not). If it’s more serious than that, then I truly wish him the best.
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Post by jezza2 on May 21, 2022 0:06:08 GMT -5
"Deserving" is a wishy washy one to get into with the arts. And amazing is the right word because this might be the worst I've ever heard from a big time singer. I think if you asked someone to sing as badly as possible with special emphasis on trying to make every other instrument sound out of tune too then you'd find it hard to do as well as he did here. Its that horrific. I don't think they'll be in arenas for long unless theres some drastic vocal improvement. I'm seeing fan videos saying they've seen them for the last time. I also feel quite concerned for the guy because it seems to be a neurological issue not unlike what preceded Linda Ronstadt's retirement. One simply cannot keep taking the fan's money for that level of performance as well which makes me think back to the worst of Liam... It NEVER got that bad, 09, 06, never. Nobody ever demanded their money back or walked out for that reason as far as I'm aware. If someone on here has then please correct me. I remember videos in 09 titled "Liam's voice is dying" showing him struggling through Live Forever at Melt! Germany, that was like an X Factor performance by comparison Certainly wasn’t pronouncing myself the arbiter of deserving! Just writing sloppily in a hurry.
I meant that even though Liam is currently at a whole other level of singing from Bon Jovi (echoing your point), he’ll still be playing 1500-seater clubs here in the States if and when he ever returns (but we'll still go crazy for him, I promise.)
Though I think JBJ has been declining for at least a decade (remember seeing him struggle mightily on TV years ago), he is acknowledged to be one of the wealthiest rock singers in the world (in a stratosphere well beyond the Gallaghers). Unlike many, he's always had extremely profitable tours so I'm sure it seems natural to just keep going with them, though maybe this one truly was the last hurrah.
I can’t say I know about his health situation, but he is of course in an age group where even the best rock singers (which I dare say he never was) lose both power and range (as well as hearing) and have to learn to adapt (or not). If it’s more serious than that, then I truly wish him the best.
I think Liam is a little bigger than 1500 seater clubs, give him a little credit
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Post by walterglass on May 21, 2022 1:04:03 GMT -5
Speaking as a long time fan of Bob Dylan (and member of Bob Dylan internet boards), believe me, discussions about a singer's voice can really blow up ! Wiggle Wiggle.
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Post by settingson on May 21, 2022 1:26:01 GMT -5
Speaking as a long time fan of Bob Dylan (and member of Bob Dylan internet boards), believe me, discussions about a singer's voice can really blow up ! Wiggle Wiggle.
Oh, it's so ON, now
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Post by girllikeabomb on May 21, 2022 1:46:56 GMT -5
I think Liam is a little bigger than 1500 seater clubs, give him a little credit
Whoa, not about credit at all--most of what plays arenas is pure crap. It's just about reality.
He’s only played here solo sparingly.
In 2017, his only true solo tour, he played for example the Park West in Chicago (1000 capacity), the beautiful Wiltern in LA (1500 capacity), First Avenue in Minneapolis (1500 capacity), etc.—and that’s similar to say the kinds of venues that Paul Weller does when he tours here. Nothing bad about it -- gorgeous old theatres, great vibes, audiences of hugely loyal fans who are truly appreciative of a chance they've waited years for... and that's what you get unless you are embedded in the culture, which he isn't here as a solo act. Just the facts.
In 2018, he did just six big city dates with Richard Ashcroft in what was dubbed a “Brit Pop legends” tour and together they were able to play a bit larger venues like the Greek Theatre in LA and the Masonic in SF.
And then in 2019, he opened for the West Coast dates of the Who tour (but I can attest from the two shows that I saw that remarkably few Who fans knew who he was and the audience was, ridiculously, unable to sing the chorus of Wonderwall when prompted.)
Maybe he could play larger venues with more promotion but he's got other fish to fry. (For CYK, it's been really quiet so far, a couple syndicated radio interviews and the remote airing of the EE video on Fallon. Even the Knebworth movie was barely promoted here and it really could have been!)
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Post by Nyron Nosworthy on May 23, 2022 16:08:58 GMT -5
I think all years (except hiatus ones) should be presented separately in the poll. I swear his voice changed at least a bit every year I agree. Well, I would break it down as: Early Oasis - 1994 - The Definitely Maybe sound 1995-96 - Peak Liam - deeper and raspier, there is a big difference between this and DM Liam 97-98 - Toss up between this and 1995 for peak Liam. He has a lot more snarl during the Be Here Now tour 2000-2001 - Much deeper and snarlier. Still sounds great but there is a massive difference from 94/95 to this 2002-2003 - Started the Heathen Chemistry tour in similar form to 2000, but with subtle differences. But by 2003 you start to hear the cracks develop 2004-2005 - Noticeably way more nasal than before. He can still just about hold a note but there's much less tone and definition in his voice 2006-2007 - Awful. The Kermit years. Some of his 2006 gigs were horrific. 2008-2009 - Slight improvement from 2006 but he'd given up trying to sing and just shouted instead. He would bite the end off every line ("Is it my imaginaSHUN"... "Now that you're MIII...") 2011-2013 - The autotune years. Still sounded passable in the studio but his vocals were clearly altered as they didn't sound natural. He actually had some ok performances at the start of Beady Eye and had improved from DOYS - the Beady Eye rehearsal sessions were his best live vocals in about 10 years and the live version of Start Anew for French radio was excellent. But by the end of DGSS his voice was totally battered and he didn't even try for BE. Stumbled across the Ibiza Rocks gig on YouTube recently just after he split with Nicole, that was hands down the worst Liam performance ever 2017-2018 - A true return to form and the best since 2002. Also, for the first time possibly ever, his performances in the second year of the tour were as good as, if not better than the first year 2019 - Another strong showing. Thought he handled some songs better than in As You Were and others not quite as good 2021 - Very few gigs to judge but he sounded excellent again
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