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Post by spaneli on Nov 4, 2020 17:45:27 GMT -5
As close as this election was, I'd ask for democrats to do better next time (vote more progressive). But I know we won't. This shit will never change until the system itself dies. Here's the problem, we've got A LOT of evidence saying that something has to change with messaging. Bernie Sanders -- no matter what occurred during those primaries -- couldn't win the Democratic nomination. The congressional candidates who performed worst in 2020 were progressive. That's a BIG issue. Mostly because you're seeing middle of the road Democrats not being receptive, and you're also seeing Independents not receptive either, to progressive candidates. Lots of Bernie people banked way too much on what he did in 2016 as fortuitous of some progressive wave, when really, the progressive faction of the country is still a minority. It's why he never had a chance to gain more than a third of the Democratic primary vote in 2020. Now if we look on the moderate side: The blue wave of 2018 in congress was fueled by moderate candidates. It looks like Biden -- a moderate -- is going to far outperform the lower ticket progressives. As with Bernie in 2016, a lot of people might have overreacted to Clinton's loss as indicative of the death of moderates (I've been saying this for four years). When in actuality, Clinton was a very unpopular candidate, and a woman to boot. And those two factors played far more into her loss than her actual policy ideas. I'm not saying we shouldn't be fighting for progressive policies. We should. We absolutely should. But there has to be a new roadmap. There has to be a reckoning with reality. Even in the depths of a pandemic, when Americans should be looking toward progressive policies, America isn't anywhere close to voting like a progressive country. And what we should be thinking about is long-term planning: How do we flip the systemic inequities with regards to redistricting and gerrymandering to better influence local politics. Rather than expecting the country to turn staunchly progressive within a single election cycle.
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on Nov 4, 2020 18:02:11 GMT -5
A bit off topic but I can't understand why Twitter hasn't banned Trump yet for some of his comments. I know that they do hide them but surely if he's breaking their rules then he should be banned. You’re going to be the first tech giant to literally embrace censorship - the very antithesis of the United States? Yeah, that would be a good move... It’s already gone too far...
‘Fact’ Checkers? lol Hate Speech? lol
What a generation of babies.Classy.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Nov 4, 2020 18:04:13 GMT -5
As close as this election was, I'd ask for democrats to do better next time (vote more progressive). But I know we won't. This shit will never change until the system itself dies. Here's the problem, we've got A LOT of evidence saying that something has to change with messaging. Bernie Sanders -- no matter what occurred during those primaries -- couldn't win the Democratic nomination. The congressional candidates who performed worst in 2020 were progressive. Bernie Sanders didn't win 2016 because the DNC essentially rigged it against him. As revealed by the wikileaks. Obviously, they pulled similar strings this cycle, which is how they got a handful of candidates to consecutively drop out and support Biden leading into Super Tuesday. Prior to that, Biden wasn't exactly doing great.
I really dislike it when Democrats pretend like any of that didn't happen when that is objectively what happened in 2016 and as such is certainly no stretch to think it happened again this time. Look no further than exit polling as evidence that majority of voters supported most of Bernie's ideas, but instead voted for the guy who largely is against Bernie's policy.
The DNC is massively corrupt and manipulates its chosen nominee through media leverage and propaganda. We do not choose the nominee, despite voting, we are groomed to vote for whom they choose. Until this is fixed, a progressive candidate will not be possible. A non-corporatist will never win the presidency. The democratic party has to die and be rebirthed.
At one point this election, they compared Biden to fucking FDR. What a goddamn joke. But to somebody not paying well enough attention (the average voter), it's music to their ears and the DNC knows it.
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Post by spaneli on Nov 4, 2020 19:45:56 GMT -5
Here's the problem, we've got A LOT of evidence saying that something has to change with messaging. Bernie Sanders -- no matter what occurred during those primaries -- couldn't win the Democratic nomination. The congressional candidates who performed worst in 2020 were progressive. Bernie Sanders didn't win 2016 because the DNC essentially rigged it against him. As revealed by the wikileaks. Obviously, they pulled similar strings this cycle, which is how they got a handful of candidates to consecutively drop out and support Biden leading into Super Tuesday. Prior to that, Biden wasn't exactly doing great. I really dislike it when Democrats pretend like any of that didn't happen when that is objectively what happened in 2016 and as such is certainly no stretch to think it happened again this time. Look no further than exit polling as evidence that majority of voters supported most of Bernie's ideas, but instead voted for the guy who largely is against Bernie's policy.
The DNC is massively corrupt and manipulates its chosen nominee through media leverage and propaganda. We do not choose the nominee, despite voting, we are groomed to vote for whom they choose. Until this is fixed, a progressive candidate will not be possible. A non-corporatist will never win the presidency. The democratic party has to die and be rebirthed.
At one point this election, they compared Biden to fucking FDR. What a goddamn joke. But to somebody not paying well enough attention (the average voter), it's music to their ears and the DNC knows it.
You're ignoring the elephant in the room. When it became a head-to-head between Biden and Bernie, Bernie couldn't cover more than a third of a Democratic electorate. That's the MAJOR problem. Talking about rigging etc ignores the MAJOR problem. The issue that keeps rearing it's head: The votes weren't there for Bernie unless the Democratic field remained fractured. That's the only reason Biden wasn't doing so hot. Because the field was fractured. So to say Biden's performance wasn't great before the field coalesced around him is moot. The MUCH BIGGER point is Bernie's people did not believe he could win a one-on-one. That's absolutely damning. And I have to pull my hair out when that glaring point is ignored. And as long as that's being ignored, this is going to happen again to progressives. And I know I'm belaboring the point: But you have to see the forest for the trees. Ignore the bad blood, the could've and should've been, and just look at the voter breakdown. And combining the fact that Bernie couldn't win a head-to-head in a Democratic nomination process, mind you, with a massive advantage when it came to organization and money (which is a point ignored by many Bernie supporters. They were the machine this time and still lost), and then progressives were pummeled last night in Congressional districts should leave a real message. And it's up to all of us progressive to really have a heart-to-heart and think about that message says. And once again: My point extends not just within the Democratic party but nationally. Bernie is the Democratic party example. But the Congressional fight last night is the national example. Losing on the local and national is a massive issue. And isn't explained by shenanigans.
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Post by matt on Nov 4, 2020 22:31:42 GMT -5
Bernie Sanders didn't win 2016 because the DNC essentially rigged it against him. As revealed by the wikileaks. Obviously, they pulled similar strings this cycle, which is how they got a handful of candidates to consecutively drop out and support Biden leading into Super Tuesday. Prior to that, Biden wasn't exactly doing great. I really dislike it when Democrats pretend like any of that didn't happen when that is objectively what happened in 2016 and as such is certainly no stretch to think it happened again this time. Look no further than exit polling as evidence that majority of voters supported most of Bernie's ideas, but instead voted for the guy who largely is against Bernie's policy.
The DNC is massively corrupt and manipulates its chosen nominee through media leverage and propaganda. We do not choose the nominee, despite voting, we are groomed to vote for whom they choose. Until this is fixed, a progressive candidate will not be possible. A non-corporatist will never win the presidency. The democratic party has to die and be rebirthed.
At one point this election, they compared Biden to fucking FDR. What a goddamn joke. But to somebody not paying well enough attention (the average voter), it's music to their ears and the DNC knows it.
You're ignoring the elephant in the room. When it became a head-to-head between Biden and Bernie, Bernie couldn't cover more than a third of a Democratic electorate. That's the MAJOR problem. Talking about rigging etc ignores the MAJOR problem. The issue that keeps rearing it's head: The votes weren't there for Bernie unless the Democratic field remained fractured. That's the only reason Biden wasn't doing so hot. Because the field was fractured. So to say Biden's performance wasn't great before the field coalesced around him is moot. The MUCH BIGGER point is Bernie's people did not believe he could win a one-on-one. That's absolutely damning. And I have to pull my hair out when that glaring point is ignored. And as long as that's being ignored, this is going to happen again to progressives. And I know I'm belaboring the point: But you have to see the forest for the trees. Ignore the bad blood, the could've and should've been, and just look at the voter breakdown. And combining the fact that Bernie couldn't win a head-to-head in a Democratic nomination process, mind you, with a massive advantage when it came to organization and money (which is a point ignored by many Bernie supporters. They were the machine this time and still lost), and then progressives were pummeled last night in Congressional districts should leave a real message. And it's up to all of us progressive to really have a heart-to-heart and think about that message says. And once again: My point extends not just within the Democratic party but nationally. Bernie is the Democratic party example. But the Congressional fight last night is the national example. Losing on the local and national is a massive issue. And isn't explained by shenanigans. This is the kind of informative post I love. Great post, but one question - what's the general makeup of Democrat senators? Are they generally more progressive than a Presidential candidate?
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Nov 4, 2020 22:33:21 GMT -5
Bernie Sanders didn't win 2016 because the DNC essentially rigged it against him. As revealed by the wikileaks. Obviously, they pulled similar strings this cycle, which is how they got a handful of candidates to consecutively drop out and support Biden leading into Super Tuesday. Prior to that, Biden wasn't exactly doing great. I really dislike it when Democrats pretend like any of that didn't happen when that is objectively what happened in 2016 and as such is certainly no stretch to think it happened again this time. Look no further than exit polling as evidence that majority of voters supported most of Bernie's ideas, but instead voted for the guy who largely is against Bernie's policy.
The DNC is massively corrupt and manipulates its chosen nominee through media leverage and propaganda. We do not choose the nominee, despite voting, we are groomed to vote for whom they choose. Until this is fixed, a progressive candidate will not be possible. A non-corporatist will never win the presidency. The democratic party has to die and be rebirthed.
At one point this election, they compared Biden to fucking FDR. What a goddamn joke. But to somebody not paying well enough attention (the average voter), it's music to their ears and the DNC knows it.
You're ignoring the elephant in the room. When it became a head-to-head between Biden and Bernie, Bernie couldn't cover more than a third of a Democratic electorate. That's the MAJOR problem. That's inherently deceitful. That's the problem. It was never head to head. Bernie received virtually no positive coverage on any major news network. It was nearly constant targeted negative ads by all the major news networks. The likely reason for this is an agenda to undermine his campaign and de-legitimize him as a candidate.
At the beginning stages, it wasn't working. Bernie defied the odds the networks had setup for him. He became more popular. He had the largest funded campaign without billionaire donors. They began to front different heads among the candidates, attempting to give each of them them more weight to see which would stick with the people, including Biden and Bernie knocked them all down in the polls and in the first states. They even allowed their own version of Trump to take the stage in one of their final attempts to defeat Bernie. In the end it was a massive failure. Knowing that if Bernie took Super Tuesday, they'd lose their corporatist candidate, they coalesced everyone behind Biden and gave him something like 72 hours of straight positive coverage, which ultimately defeated Bernie. That's what it took to beat the man. A well calculated campaign to undermine one of their very own. And we know what these people are thinking behind the scenes, because we saw the same thing in 2016 and what was said.
Bernie never had a chance. Not because he wasn't viable. Not because he was weak. But because the system he was attempting to participate in him worked against him by literally placed every possible road block in his way to prevent his success. And this was possible due to the wealth and power of the DNC.
Now an aside from the above, Bernie wasn't the strongest candidate in some sense. He DIDN'T fight. He kept referring to Joe as his friend and as a viable candidate. He must have known what was being done to him and he let it happen without so much as a negative word directed at the corruption. Which made him something of a cuck. Corporatists control the DNC. Which is why we always get the corporatist candidate. These are right leaning moderates. And we continue to drift further to the right with time. Bernie would have won organically. If the DNC was at all honorable or interested in backing the strongest candidate (without manipulating the race), it would have been Bernie. And I am confident in saying that if it was Bernie last night, he would have had it in the bag.
Just think about this for one moment. About how incredibly weak Biden is. He nearly lost to the worst president of the last century. He nearly lost to a President that just let 200k people die, and an economy crumble and has done very little to help the struggling people and continues to do very little to properly address the pandemic. That's who Biden almost lost to. And he still very well could if Arizona or Nevada flip. That's fucking embarrassing. I was watching the TYT hilarious meltdown last night and one of the first words that came out of Cenk's mouth was something like "I'm done with corporatist democrats." That's absolutely the mindset the American people need to get into. Cenk finally just woke up to reality.
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Post by matt on Nov 4, 2020 22:38:08 GMT -5
I’m still wondering about Dewey/Truman. There’s still a twist or two remaining. The only twist that is happening mate is that knife being bludgeoned further and further into every member of the Trump family at this time.
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Post by Elie De Beaufour on Nov 4, 2020 23:06:01 GMT -5
Will Trump take it to the Supreme court because 'I lost unfairly waaaaaaah'? Stan Grant thinks he will.
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Post by mimmihopps on Nov 5, 2020 1:50:40 GMT -5
There's still hope for democracy.
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Post by funhouse on Nov 5, 2020 3:32:39 GMT -5
I like this new Kanye West track
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Post by Elie De Beaufour on Nov 5, 2020 4:37:08 GMT -5
What was the Trump spiritual advisor doing? 2 Timothy says shut up woman. Edit: Someone from his area of PA day before when he prevoted: Who are the strange men walking around at my polling booth dressed in black?
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Nov 5, 2020 8:02:23 GMT -5
Election still very much on....
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Nov 5, 2020 8:02:34 GMT -5
Donald Trump expanded his coalition with Blacks, Hispanics, and Women. Best numbers for any Republican in history - It’s like he’s actually been rewarded for record low unemployment numbers for all these segments of the electorate during his presidency.
So much for Trump being a racist and a misogynist. Another liberal talking point debunked.
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Post by Elie De Beaufour on Nov 5, 2020 8:20:25 GMT -5
Trump is a racist and a misogynist. Another liberal talking point debunked. Trump lies, he mocked Floyd and didn't help a 73 year old woman who lost her store in the riots. Try again
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Post by oasisunited on Nov 5, 2020 8:28:32 GMT -5
You're ignoring the elephant in the room. When it became a head-to-head between Biden and Bernie, Bernie couldn't cover more than a third of a Democratic electorate. That's the MAJOR problem. Talking about rigging etc ignores the MAJOR problem. The issue that keeps rearing it's head: The votes weren't there for Bernie unless the Democratic field remained fractured. That's the only reason Biden wasn't doing so hot. Because the field was fractured. So to say Biden's performance wasn't great before the field coalesced around him is moot. The MUCH BIGGER point is Bernie's people did not believe he could win a one-on-one. That's absolutely damning. And I have to pull my hair out when that glaring point is ignored. And as long as that's being ignored, this is going to happen again to progressives. And I know I'm belaboring the point: But you have to see the forest for the trees. Ignore the bad blood, the could've and should've been, and just look at the voter breakdown. And combining the fact that Bernie couldn't win a head-to-head in a Democratic nomination process, mind you, with a massive advantage when it came to organization and money (which is a point ignored by many Bernie supporters. They were the machine this time and still lost), and then progressives were pummeled last night in Congressional districts should leave a real message. And it's up to all of us progressive to really have a heart-to-heart and think about that message says. And once again: My point extends not just within the Democratic party but nationally. Bernie is the Democratic party example. But the Congressional fight last night is the national example. Losing on the local and national is a massive issue. And isn't explained by shenanigans. This is the kind of informative post I love. Great post, but one question - what's the general makeup of Democrat senators? Are they generally more progressive than a Presidential candidate? This is kind of hard to answer without more context. There are political organizations that rank members of Congress based on their voting record (e.g. did they vote yes or no on a piece of legislation deemed progressive, gun friendly, abortion friendly, etc). Keep in mind that comparing a Senator's "progressiveness" to a Presidential candidate is a bit of apples to oranges, as Senator's only have to win in a state, where attitudes are generally very consistent between both sides of the political spectrum, spare a few of the larger states which as you can imagine have very different cultures in one part vs another. Therefore, most Senate candidates can align with the majority view points on issues in their respective states and don't have to be as moderating as the typical Presidential candidate, who has to win across many diverse states. Obviously, Trump is a bit of an exception to the moderating approach of most Presidential candidates. That being said, most "progressive" voting score cards will show that almost all Democratic Senators currently serving vote > 50% of the time with progressive stances on issues. The ones on the lower end of the spectrum typically come from states that skew more middle of the road or even lean conservative. This is all to say that while there may be national popular support for certain progressive ideas, they are not usually reflected in Congress due to the population distribution vs state boundaries (a lot of our population is consolidated in a handful of states).
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on Nov 5, 2020 8:44:19 GMT -5
Donald Trump expanded his coalition with Blacks, Hispanics, and Women. Best numbers for any Republican in history - It’s like he’s actually been rewarded for record low unemployment numbers for all these segments of the electorate during his presidency. So much for Trump being a racist and a misogynist. Another liberal talking point debunked.Nice leap. Your logic is truly astounding.
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Post by Jessica on Nov 5, 2020 9:02:31 GMT -5
Donald Trump expanded his coalition with Blacks, Hispanics, and Women. Best numbers for any Republican in history - It’s like he’s actually been rewarded for record low unemployment numbers for all these segments of the electorate during his presidency. So much for Trump being a racist and a misogynist. Another liberal talking point debunked. Hispanics are also being targeted with misinformation through social media as much as white/black Americans are.
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on Nov 5, 2020 9:43:21 GMT -5
What an absolute fucking embarrassment. And to think 48% of American voters have voted for this toddler.
Embarrassment update:
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2020 9:52:06 GMT -5
What an absolute fucking embarrassment. And to think 48% of Americans voters have voted for this toddler. Fixed it
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Post by funhouse on Nov 5, 2020 9:54:12 GMT -5
Donald Trump expanded his coalition with Blacks, Hispanics, and Women. Best numbers for any Republican in history - It’s like he’s actually been rewarded for record low unemployment numbers for all these segments of the electorate during his presidency. So much for Trump being a racist and a misogynist. Another liberal talking point debunked. Hispanics are also being targeted with misinformation through social media as much as white/black Americans are. And many of them would have voted for Bernie if given the oppurtunity.
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Post by RocketMan on Nov 5, 2020 10:31:54 GMT -5
Hispanics are also being targeted with misinformation through social media as much as white/black Americans are. And many of them would have voted for Bernie if given the oppurtunity. „If I can’t vote for the guy who is for universal healthcare then I just vote for the one who is against it“ 😩
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Post by funhouse on Nov 5, 2020 10:46:25 GMT -5
And many of them would have voted for Bernie if given the oppurtunity. „If I can’t vote for the guy who is for universal healthcare then I just vote for the one who is against it“ 😩 Yeah, highly illogical of course. But I guess it comes down to Biden having had more time than Trump(as a political figure) to make minorities dislike him.
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Post by mimmihopps on Nov 5, 2020 12:33:11 GMT -5
What an absolute fucking embarrassment. And to think 48% of American voters have voted for this toddler.
Embarrassment update: He’s the naked king in his comedy show
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Nov 5, 2020 13:24:52 GMT -5
I’m not sure we will ever know the real outcome of this election. This is 1000x worse than the 2000 election. The nation is about to become dangerously divided.
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Post by matt on Nov 5, 2020 14:00:05 GMT -5
Donald Trump expanded his coalition with Blacks, Hispanics, and Women. Best numbers for any Republican in history - It’s like he’s actually been rewarded for record low unemployment numbers for all these segments of the electorate during his presidency. So much for Trump being a racist and a misogynist. Another liberal talking point debunked. And in another of Beady Eye's hot takes, he asks the question 'how could The Yorkshire Ripper hate women if he was married to one?'.
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