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Post by tiger40 on Aug 21, 2020 13:42:54 GMT -5
Donald Trump has messed up America anyway so who ever gets in it'll be just as bad or nearly as bad if Biden gets in.
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Post by matt on Aug 21, 2020 21:09:16 GMT -5
Trump supporters gutted that Biden's DNC speech didn't go badly. The best retort? He was reading from a teleprompter? Wow, that's real dynamite that is.....
Even if you're to fall for the right wing propaganda that Biden has severe dementia, I'm sure he'd still be a better President than that fucking waste of space.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Aug 21, 2020 22:05:14 GMT -5
Biden will be a fantastic president ... for the rich. We tell ourselves to vote for the lesser of two evils, acknowledging that the choices we've been given is generally shit. Then we convince ourselves it'll be different next time. Only, it never is. If you want change, you have to stop settling. You have to protest. You have to boycott. We give them their power and they abuse it. They've convinced you that you must settle, which is why the majority of Biden's voters are voting simply because he's not Trump. Policies matter. For example, Biden is unwilling to solve the healthcare crisis, despite a global pandemic where America is the epicenter of it, despite tens of millions uninsured and billions racked up in medical debt. He's recently compromised with his fellow republicans to remove the public option from medicare that he ran his fucking campaign on implementing. He doesn't give a fuck about Americans. When he assures the party that "nothing will fundamentally change." under a Biden presidency, he doesn't give a fuck about you. No change, no progress. He doesn't care if you starve, go homeless, go bankrupt, get injured, you name it. It doesn't matter to him. Sounds a lot like another buffoon we have been dealing with for 4 years now, doesn't it?
If Biden's policies are not aligned with your own, then do not vote or vote green or independent. We have to stop voting for moderate republicans running under the democrat label. It's killing this country. The last time we had true progress, it took The Great Depression which was answered with The New Deal from FDR. Maybe this pandemic and financial crisis is a blessing in disguise.
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Post by funhouse on Aug 22, 2020 3:54:07 GMT -5
Biden will be a fantastic president ... for the rich. We tell ourselves to vote for the lesser of two evils, acknowledging that the choices we've been given is generally shit. Then we convince ourselves it'll be different next time. Only, it never is. If you want change, you have to stop settling. You have to protest. You have to boycott. We give them their power and they abuse it. They've convinced you that you must settle, which is why the majority of Biden's voters are voting simply because he's not Trump. Policies matter. For example, Biden is unwilling to solve the healthcare crisis, despite a global pandemic where America is the epicenter of it, despite tens of millions uninsured and billions racked up in medical debt. He's recently compromised with his fellow republicans to remove the public option from medicare that he ran his fucking campaign on implementing. He doesn't give a fuck about Americans. When he assures the party that "nothing will fundamentally change." under a Biden presidency, he doesn't give a fuck about you. No change, no progress. He doesn't care if you starve, go homeless, go bankrupt, get injured, you name it. It doesn't matter to him. Sounds a lot like another buffoon we have been dealing with for 4 years now, doesn't it?
If Biden's policies are not aligned with your own, then do not vote or vote green or independent. We have to stop voting for moderate republicans running under the democrat label. It's killing this country. The last time we had true progress, it took The Great Depression which was answered with The New Deal from FDR. Maybe this pandemic and financial crisis is a blessing in disguise. "We tell ourselves to vote for the lesser of two evils, acknowledging that the choices we've been given is generally shit. Then we convince ourselves it'll be different next time. Only, it never is." I would say there actually is reason to believe things will be different next time. If Klobuchar and Buttigieg hadn't "magically" dropped out before Super Tuesday we would most likely have Bernie as the candidate today, who'd be very likely to become the next peesident. The progressive movement and their ideas does not lack support, all that is needed next time is a candidate more willing to throw punches and not apologize for it, then actual change can actually happen. I get the frustration and willingness to just say fuck it, but especially this time, swallowing your pride and vote for Biden is the better option. Trump simply can't win again, it will be disastrous for so many people, more than if Biden won. And it's also easier for peogressives to influence neoliberals than to influence fascists, no matter to how little extent. You should absolutely protest Biden and call him out for his horrible policies, but I would do that *after* he's elected. Edit: Not saying you shouldn't criticise his policies now, but I don't think it should be used as an argument to not vote for him, simply because of the other option.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Aug 22, 2020 9:36:51 GMT -5
Hahaha this is too good. 😂
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Aug 22, 2020 10:33:21 GMT -5
Biden will be a fantastic president ... for the rich. We tell ourselves to vote for the lesser of two evils, acknowledging that the choices we've been given is generally shit. Then we convince ourselves it'll be different next time. Only, it never is. If you want change, you have to stop settling. You have to protest. You have to boycott. We give them their power and they abuse it. They've convinced you that you must settle, which is why the majority of Biden's voters are voting simply because he's not Trump. Policies matter. For example, Biden is unwilling to solve the healthcare crisis, despite a global pandemic where America is the epicenter of it, despite tens of millions uninsured and billions racked up in medical debt. He's recently compromised with his fellow republicans to remove the public option from medicare that he ran his fucking campaign on implementing. He doesn't give a fuck about Americans. When he assures the party that "nothing will fundamentally change." under a Biden presidency, he doesn't give a fuck about you. No change, no progress. He doesn't care if you starve, go homeless, go bankrupt, get injured, you name it. It doesn't matter to him. Sounds a lot like another buffoon we have been dealing with for 4 years now, doesn't it?
If Biden's policies are not aligned with your own, then do not vote or vote green or independent. We have to stop voting for moderate republicans running under the democrat label. It's killing this country. The last time we had true progress, it took The Great Depression which was answered with The New Deal from FDR. Maybe this pandemic and financial crisis is a blessing in disguise. "I would say there actually is reason to believe things will be different next time. If Klobuchar and Buttigieg hadn't "magically" dropped out before Super Tuesday we would most likely have Bernie as the candidate today, who'd be very likely to become the next peesident." As I have said previously, the democratic party would rather have Trump as president again than have Bernie, and by extension, any true progressive in power. It was never going to happen for Bernie in either 2016 or 2020. It's not a sign of progress,it's a demonstration of corruption of the left and how they can utilize their wealth and power to so heavily influence public opinion.
" The progressive movement and their ideas does not lack support, all that is needed next time is a candidate more willing to throw punches and not apologize for it, then actual change can actually happen. "
I hope your right. But I don't think you are. It takes the people as well as the candidate to fight for what they want. Even if we find a progressive candidate who will fight, will the people fight for him or her? They have so far demonstrated they won't. Which is why on exit polling we found a majority of democrats supporting Bernie's ideas, but instead voted Biden who literally supported none of said ideas.
"Trump simply can't win again, it will be disastrous for so many people"
It may need to be disastrous to finally edge the people to stop their complacency and contentedness towards our current system. We are appeased so long as we have our distractions. The moment that's no longer possible, you'll have millions marching on Washington. The way I see it, 4 more years of Trump potentially does two things. Either brings the nation to its knees, which results in radical change for the people in the form of a new deal part two or it weakens the democratic party if not entirely collapses it to the point that it must rebuild and front somebody extremely popular with progressive ideas, a true leftist for the people in order to secure power in 2024.
"And it's also easier for peogressives to influence neoliberals than to influence fascists, no matter to how little extent."
This is an opinion supported by YouTubers like Vaush. It's pie in the sky. It's fantasy. Neoliberals hold the status quo. And progressive ideas attack their wallet. They will never bend the knee until they are forced down. They'd rather rule alongside fascists than cave to progressives. The best progressive type they will ever be willing to offer is another Obama, the guy whose greatest achievement was in passing the republican healthcare bill. We have to put pressure on them. Denying them power for another 4 years will be the best way to achieve leverage and get concessions in 2024.
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Post by tiger40 on Aug 22, 2020 14:02:18 GMT -5
Well Trump didn't have much competition last time as it was pretty obvious that he would get in. This time however it might not be as easy for him with Biden as competition.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Aug 24, 2020 8:34:07 GMT -5
Well Trump didn't have much competition last time as it was pretty obvious that he would get in. This time however it might not be as easy for him with Biden as competition. I don’t know what revisionist history you’re doing, but it was not obvious at all Trump would win in 2016. In fact, he only squeaked by in the Rust Belt which delivered the EC to him. Clinton and the Democrats still haven’t gotten over their 2016 loss. Clinton was a much better and stronger candidate, Biden/Harris so uninspiring. Trump is in a strong position because he can lose some states and still win. Anyone predicting anything other than a close election that’s very similar to 2016 has no idea what they’re talking about. Also, the economy has really picked up (stock markets setting new records, unemployment never spiked as high as expected and is now drastically falling, GDP will be very strong this third quarter). This is all highly important in presidential elections. Plus the power of the incumbency is a very real thing. And lastly, polls aren’t predictive - and they are tightening, as expected, in any case.
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Post by tiger40 on Aug 24, 2020 13:35:00 GMT -5
Really? I think of course Trump had it easy last time around. I mean it was pretty obvious that Clinton wouldn't get in. Biden is probably more competition than what Clinton was and I'm not a fan of him but surely anyone is better than Trump.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Aug 24, 2020 16:41:04 GMT -5
Really? I think of course Trump had it easy last time around. I mean it was pretty obvious that Clinton wouldn't get in. Biden is probably more competition than what Clinton was and I'm not a fan of him but surely anyone is better than Trump. The majority of major news networks in 2016 predicated Hillary's win by a sweeping landslide. It was not obvious in the slightest. You can go back and see this from footage of the night. You can even look at their faces change as the state results started rolling in and especially at the announcement of Trump's victory. People lost their shit live on air in disbelief after they were so certain the buffoon would lose.
Now technically, she did win. She won the popular vote by the millions. But that's not enough to win an election. It's the electoral college that decides.
If anybody thinks Biden has it in the bag this election with the current polling numbers, then I'm afraid they didn't learn their lesson in 2016 and it's entirely possible if not likely that we will see a repeat again this 2020.
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Post by matt on Aug 24, 2020 17:36:43 GMT -5
Really? I think of course Trump had it easy last time around. I mean it was pretty obvious that Clinton wouldn't get in. Biden is probably more competition than what Clinton was and I'm not a fan of him but surely anyone is better than Trump. The majority of major news networks in 2016 predicated Hillary's win by a sweeping landslide. It was not obvious in the slightest. You can go back and see this from footage of the night. You can even look at their faces change as the state results started rolling in and especially at the announcement of Trump's victory. People lost their shit live on air in disbelief after they were so certain the buffoon would lose. Now technically, she did win. She won the popular vote by the millions. But that's not enough to win an election. It's the electoral college that decides.
If anybody thinks Biden has it in the bag this election with the current polling numbers, then I'm afraid they didn't learn their lesson in 2016 and it's entirely possible if not likely that we will see a repeat again this 2020.
And is it not people like you that will let Trump back in?
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Aug 24, 2020 19:08:53 GMT -5
The majority of major news networks in 2016 predicated Hillary's win by a sweeping landslide. It was not obvious in the slightest. You can go back and see this from footage of the night. You can even look at their faces change as the state results started rolling in and especially at the announcement of Trump's victory. People lost their shit live on air in disbelief after they were so certain the buffoon would lose. Now technically, she did win. She won the popular vote by the millions. But that's not enough to win an election. It's the electoral college that decides.
If anybody thinks Biden has it in the bag this election with the current polling numbers, then I'm afraid they didn't learn their lesson in 2016 and it's entirely possible if not likely that we will see a repeat again this 2020.
And is it not people like you that will let Trump back in? Not anymore. I learned my lesson in 2016 after they rigged it for Clinton over Sanders (thanks wiki leaks). It's people that continue to vote for neoliberal corporatists who prevents true progress. Your vote staves it off by enabling the status quo. Now, in all fairness, it's not entirely your fault. After all, it's the DNC, not yourself, buying the media and manipulating the vote. However, you still participate in their game. You do exactly what they want, what they expect, but more importantly what they NEED of you. The consequence is more harm to the potential for progress in the country than somebody refraining from participation and actively vying for a better standard of voting.
Trump is the result of Obama's weak presidency and the weakness of the democratic party in general. The party has been weak for many decades now. The vote for neoliberals has not improved the peoples circumstances in that time. It's not about to either. There will be more Trumps if we continue to vote as we do. We must address the cause, not the symptom. The sooner you recognize and acknowledge this, the sooner you can demand better candidates and see real change. The only way they will change is if you, the voter, changes. Settling for neoliberals just because they have a D next to their name will never accomplish that. It is pie in the sky. So while I won't be responsible for Trump's re-election, I also won't aid seeing yet another neoliberal placate the country and gradually nudge the democratic party further to the right.
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Post by funhouse on Aug 25, 2020 2:59:57 GMT -5
"I would say there actually is reason to believe things will be different next time. If Klobuchar and Buttigieg hadn't "magically" dropped out before Super Tuesday we would most likely have Bernie as the candidate today, who'd be very likely to become the next peesident." As I have said previously, the democratic party would rather have Trump as president again than have Bernie, and by extension, any true progressive in power. It was never going to happen for Bernie in either 2016 or 2020. It's not a sign of progress,it's a demonstration of corruption of the left and how they can utilize their wealth and power to so heavily influence public opinion.
" The progressive movement and their ideas does not lack support, all that is needed next time is a candidate more willing to throw punches and not apologize for it, then actual change can actually happen. "
I hope your right. But I don't think you are. It takes the people as well as the candidate to fight for what they want. Even if we find a progressive candidate who will fight, will the people fight for him or her? They have so far demonstrated they won't. Which is why on exit polling we found a majority of democrats supporting Bernie's ideas, but instead voted Biden who literally supported none of said ideas.
"Trump simply can't win again, it will be disastrous for so many people"
It may need to be disastrous to finally edge the people to stop their complacency and contentedness towards our current system. We are appeased so long as we have our distractions. The moment that's no longer possible, you'll have millions marching on Washington. The way I see it, 4 more years of Trump potentially does two things. Either brings the nation to its knees, which results in radical change for the people in the form of a new deal part two or it weakens the democratic party if not entirely collapses it to the point that it must rebuild and front somebody extremely popular with progressive ideas, a true leftist for the people in order to secure power in 2024.
"And it's also easier for peogressives to influence neoliberals than to influence fascists, no matter to how little extent."
This is an opinion supported by YouTubers like Vaush. It's pie in the sky. It's fantasy. Neoliberals hold the status quo. And progressive ideas attack their wallet. They will never bend the knee until they are forced down. They'd rather rule alongside fascists than cave to progressives. The best progressive type they will ever be willing to offer is another Obama, the guy whose greatest achievement was in passing the republican healthcare bill. We have to put pressure on them. Denying them power for another 4 years will be the best way to achieve leverage and get concessions in 2024.
You don't think it was different this time? Bernie had some SERIOUS momentum. If their trick hadn't worked to turn Super Tuesday around I'm not saying Bernie definitely would have won it, but he absolutely *could* have. You said yourself that the majority support his ideas already. The reason this didn't result in a relatively comfortable Bernie win was hugely because of the media propaganda about how "Biden was more likely to beat Trump". Many people who might have voted for Bernie were swayed and voted for Biden out of fear instead. Out of fear, because people are simply scared of a second Trump term. When afraid, people are less likely to take a chance on something new, even when it is clearly better, and instead go with the "safe" and cozy old man who was Obama's VP, especially when the media tells them day in and day out that they should do so. These circumstances really fucked Bernie, but if this would have been another 2016, as in running against a yet to be decided Republican candidate, then I am absolutely certain he would have won. You can say I'm too optimistic, but I really believe this to be the objective truth. Also, another reason for my general optimism is other types of elections that happened recently. People like Cori Bush and Jamaal Bowman being voted into congress, sort of against all odds, while "The Squad" were comfortably reelected. It's not just about Bernie, it's a movement that is continually growing stronger. While I have thought about that scenario myself, there are two things that I object to: First off, everything becoming better, a new Democratic party and all that *could* happen, but it's still just speculative. And if not, then to what cost? Four more years of Trump will cause serious damage, even more so than Joe's status quo. Secondly like I've pointed to before I seem to be more optimistic, meaning that I can see a progressive candidate winning right here and now, as opposed to only in a hypothetical post-apocalyptic America. If Bernie would have performed worse than 2016 and made little impact during the primaries, if other progressives wouldn't get voted into power in a way they hadn't before, then I might have shared your sense of desperation. But that's not the case now. It was kind of a superfluous argument from me. Of course there won't be much, if any, progressive influence on a Biden administration, but that scenario is still better than a fascist administration who won't just protect things that are shitty, but make them worse, like they have already. If your four more years of Trump-theory could be proved true, that might be the better option. But we don't know, and I'm simply too optimistic/not pessimistic enough to even consider that.
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Post by matt on Aug 25, 2020 7:01:04 GMT -5
For those who say Biden isn’t much of a difference from Trump, then I can only assume the hatred and racism of the last four years isn’t really that important to you.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Aug 25, 2020 10:47:06 GMT -5
"I would say there actually is reason to believe things will be different next time. If Klobuchar and Buttigieg hadn't "magically" dropped out before Super Tuesday we would most likely have Bernie as the candidate today, who'd be very likely to become the next peesident." As I have said previously, the democratic party would rather have Trump as president again than have Bernie, and by extension, any true progressive in power. It was never going to happen for Bernie in either 2016 or 2020. It's not a sign of progress,it's a demonstration of corruption of the left and how they can utilize their wealth and power to so heavily influence public opinion.
" The progressive movement and their ideas does not lack support, all that is needed next time is a candidate more willing to throw punches and not apologize for it, then actual change can actually happen. "
I hope your right. But I don't think you are. It takes the people as well as the candidate to fight for what they want. Even if we find a progressive candidate who will fight, will the people fight for him or her? They have so far demonstrated they won't. Which is why on exit polling we found a majority of democrats supporting Bernie's ideas, but instead voted Biden who literally supported none of said ideas.
"Trump simply can't win again, it will be disastrous for so many people"
It may need to be disastrous to finally edge the people to stop their complacency and contentedness towards our current system. We are appeased so long as we have our distractions. The moment that's no longer possible, you'll have millions marching on Washington. The way I see it, 4 more years of Trump potentially does two things. Either brings the nation to its knees, which results in radical change for the people in the form of a new deal part two or it weakens the democratic party if not entirely collapses it to the point that it must rebuild and front somebody extremely popular with progressive ideas, a true leftist for the people in order to secure power in 2024.
"And it's also easier for peogressives to influence neoliberals than to influence fascists, no matter to how little extent."
This is an opinion supported by YouTubers like Vaush. It's pie in the sky. It's fantasy. Neoliberals hold the status quo. And progressive ideas attack their wallet. They will never bend the knee until they are forced down. They'd rather rule alongside fascists than cave to progressives. The best progressive type they will ever be willing to offer is another Obama, the guy whose greatest achievement was in passing the republican healthcare bill. We have to put pressure on them. Denying them power for another 4 years will be the best way to achieve leverage and get concessions in 2024.
You don't think it was different this time? Bernie had some SERIOUS momentum. If their trick hadn't worked to turn Super Tuesday around I'm not saying Bernie definitely would have won it, but he absolutely *could* have. You said yourself that the majority support his ideas already. The reason this didn't result in a relatively comfortable Bernie win was hugely because of the media propaganda about how "Biden was more likely to beat Trump". Many people who might have voted for Bernie were swayed and voted for Biden out of fear instead. Out of fear, because people are simply scared of a second Trump term. When afraid, people are less likely to take a chance on something new, even when it is clearly better, and instead go with the "safe" and cozy old man who was Obama's VP, especially when the media tells them day in and day out that they should do so. These circumstances really fucked Bernie, but if this would have been another 2016, as in running against a yet to be decided Republican candidate, then I am absolutely certain he would have won. You can say I'm too optimistic, but I really believe this to be the objective truth. Also, another reason for my general optimism is other types of elections that happened recently. People like Cori Bush and Jamaal Bowman being voted into congress, sort of against all odds, while "The Squad" were comfortably reelected. It's not just about Bernie, it's a movement that is continually growing stronger. While I have thought about that scenario myself, there are two things that I object to: First off, everything becoming better, a new Democratic party and all that *could* happen, but it's still just speculative. And if not, then to what cost? Four more years of Trump will cause serious damage, even more so than Joe's status quo. Secondly like I've pointed to before I seem to be more optimistic, meaning that I can see a progressive candidate winning right here and now, as opposed to only in a hypothetical post-apocalyptic America. If Bernie would have performed worse than 2016 and made little impact during the primaries, if other progressives wouldn't get voted into power in a way they hadn't before, then I might have shared your sense of desperation. But that's not the case now. It was kind of a superfluous argument from me. Of course there won't be much, if any, progressive influence on a Biden administration, but that scenario is still better than a fascist administration who won't just protect things that are shitty, but make them worse, like they have already. If your four more years of Trump-theory could be proved true, that might be the better option. But we don't know, and I'm simply too optimistic/not pessimistic enough to even consider that. This time around the DNC went into damage control when they realized Bernie had a real shot. They were scared to death. So they started trying out different candidates, stooping so low as to try their very own "Trump" in the form of Michael Bloomberg. Their last ditch effort was to thrust everything behind Biden after all of the other candidates failed. They got those candidates to drop out and support Biden and gave Biden nearly constant positive press for days leading into Super Tuesday with basically no positive press towards Bernie. That easy and Biden wins.
The takeaway from that isn't that Bernie had a real chance. Of course he did in a world without corruption. The exit polling demonstrates that his ideas are popular. That's not the problem. The takeaway should be that the DNC will NEVER allow a progressive to win. They have too much power, too much wealth and too much influence. The very thing Bernie wants to destroy, is the very thing keeping him down as well as others like him. They essentially did the same in 2016 as the wiki leaks shed light on. They only ever had one candidate in mind. Hilary. And they did everything to make sure she won the primary. This is corporate power at work. They can make whatever they want happen. And we let them do it. Calculated, directed propaganda to manipulate the audiences of whatever networks they own. This is why corporate media switched exclusively to Biden and independent media still stood with Bernie. Independent media isn't bought.
Yes, the people voted out of "fear" because the media kept telling them over and over that Bernie had no chance. It couldn't have been farther from the truth. Yet again, public thinking was manipulated and influenced. It's so goddamn corrupt. This is what will happen every election where a progressive exists in unless we start refusing the DNC their vote. That is our only leverage. If we deny them election after election, they lose power, they lose control. Eventually, they will front somebody with more progressive ideas because it's what the people want.
The problem which keeps occurring is that, it's the same damn argument every election. "We gotta get the republican out of office!" "We have to prevent the republicans from taking office!" "We can vote our conscience NEXT election." "Next time, I will vote based on policy not just down party lines." It never changes. There will always be reasons to settle for whatever is given no matter how shit the options are. And you can bet networks will be telling the people as much. For some, it's almost a foreign feeling to decide not to choose between options. But it's integral that we do if we want change.
My decision to not participate is primarily a moral one. I refuse to be responsible for either of these puppets getting into office. From here on out, I will only ever vote based on policy and whether or not the candidate is actually for the people.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Aug 25, 2020 10:54:34 GMT -5
For those who say Biden isn’t much of a difference from Trump, then I can only assume the hatred and racism of the last four years isn’t really that important to you. If you actually care to solve racism, then vote for a progressive and deny your vote to the asshole that declares nothing will fundamentally change under his presidency.
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theriddler
Madferrit Fan
Mater Omnium Fontes
Posts: 87
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Post by theriddler on Aug 25, 2020 10:59:44 GMT -5
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Post by matt on Aug 25, 2020 10:59:59 GMT -5
For those who say Biden isn’t much of a difference from Trump, then I can only assume the hatred and racism of the last four years isn’t really that important to you. If you actually care to solve racism, then vote for a progressive and deny your vote to the asshole that declares nothing will fundamentally change under his presidency. I’m sure those who have experienced an increase in racist abuse in the last four years would agree...
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Aug 25, 2020 11:08:20 GMT -5
If you actually care to solve racism, then vote for a progressive and deny your vote to the asshole that declares nothing will fundamentally change under his presidency. I’m sure those who have experienced an increase in racist abuse in the last four years would agree... You think that's going to change under Biden? It just magically disappears because of a power switch?
Progressives actually aim to solve the systemic issues that cause racism. Biden couldn't give a fuck about doing that. He will exacerbate the issues by further destroying the middle class as well as widening the gap between the wealthy and poor, no different than Trump.
Edit* For example, Biden has recently said that he does not want to defund the police. In fact, he wants to give them more cash. How do you think that helps end racism?
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Aug 25, 2020 11:42:34 GMT -5
Let's fund the police more so they can beat up and arrest blacks and other minorities at disproportional rates and usually for drug related offenses such as possession of marijuana which ought to be legal if not at least decriminalized at this point. Hell, maybe now they can afford tanks so that they can become even more militarized against citizens with minorities receiving the full brunt of their force.
Ending the drug war would be a massive leap toward ending racism, so Uncle Joe must want to do that right? Well, he says he does. His long political history tells a different tale, however. And his VP is notorious for prosecuting marijuana related offenses. What an interesting pattern we have. Excuse me if I don't hold my breath.
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Post by tiger40 on Aug 25, 2020 13:20:30 GMT -5
Really? I think of course Trump had it easy last time around. I mean it was pretty obvious that Clinton wouldn't get in. Biden is probably more competition than what Clinton was and I'm not a fan of him but surely anyone is better than Trump. The majority of major news networks in 2016 predicated Hillary's win by a sweeping landslide. It was not obvious in the slightest. You can go back and see this from footage of the night. You can even look at their faces change as the state results started rolling in and especially at the announcement of Trump's victory. People lost their shit live on air in disbelief after they were so certain the buffoon would lose.
Now technically, she did win. She won the popular vote by the millions. But that's not enough to win an election. It's the electoral college that decides.
If anybody thinks Biden has it in the bag this election with the current polling numbers, then I'm afraid they didn't learn their lesson in 2016 and it's entirely possible if not likely that we will see a repeat again this 2020.
Well I never believe these polls/ media theories when it comes to education's as nobody can predict the winner anyway. And, as for not been obvious about Trump winning well I'm sorry but I knew that Clinton wouldn't get in. And, if Trump gets in again then god help us all not just America.
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Post by funhouse on Aug 25, 2020 16:45:27 GMT -5
You don't think it was different this time? Bernie had some SERIOUS momentum. If their trick hadn't worked to turn Super Tuesday around I'm not saying Bernie definitely would have won it, but he absolutely *could* have. You said yourself that the majority support his ideas already. The reason this didn't result in a relatively comfortable Bernie win was hugely because of the media propaganda about how "Biden was more likely to beat Trump". Many people who might have voted for Bernie were swayed and voted for Biden out of fear instead. Out of fear, because people are simply scared of a second Trump term. When afraid, people are less likely to take a chance on something new, even when it is clearly better, and instead go with the "safe" and cozy old man who was Obama's VP, especially when the media tells them day in and day out that they should do so. These circumstances really fucked Bernie, but if this would have been another 2016, as in running against a yet to be decided Republican candidate, then I am absolutely certain he would have won. You can say I'm too optimistic, but I really believe this to be the objective truth. Also, another reason for my general optimism is other types of elections that happened recently. People like Cori Bush and Jamaal Bowman being voted into congress, sort of against all odds, while "The Squad" were comfortably reelected. It's not just about Bernie, it's a movement that is continually growing stronger. While I have thought about that scenario myself, there are two things that I object to: First off, everything becoming better, a new Democratic party and all that *could* happen, but it's still just speculative. And if not, then to what cost? Four more years of Trump will cause serious damage, even more so than Joe's status quo. Secondly like I've pointed to before I seem to be more optimistic, meaning that I can see a progressive candidate winning right here and now, as opposed to only in a hypothetical post-apocalyptic America. If Bernie would have performed worse than 2016 and made little impact during the primaries, if other progressives wouldn't get voted into power in a way they hadn't before, then I might have shared your sense of desperation. But that's not the case now. It was kind of a superfluous argument from me. Of course there won't be much, if any, progressive influence on a Biden administration, but that scenario is still better than a fascist administration who won't just protect things that are shitty, but make them worse, like they have already. If your four more years of Trump-theory could be proved true, that might be the better option. But we don't know, and I'm simply too optimistic/not pessimistic enough to even consider that. This time around the DNC went into damage control when they realized Bernie had a real shot. They were scared to death. So they started trying out different candidates, stooping so low as to try their very own "Trump" in the form of Michael Bloomberg. Their last ditch effort was to thrust everything behind Biden after all of the other candidates failed. They got those candidates to drop out and support Biden and gave Biden nearly constant positive press for days leading into Super Tuesday with basically no positive press towards Bernie. That easy and Biden wins.
The takeaway from that isn't that Bernie had a real chance. Of course he did in a world without corruption. The exit polling demonstrates that his ideas are popular. That's not the problem. The takeaway should be that the DNC will NEVER allow a progressive to win. They have too much power, too much wealth and too much influence. The very thing Bernie wants to destroy, is the very thing keeping him down as well as others like him. They essentially did the same in 2016 as the wiki leaks shed light on. They only ever had one candidate in mind. Hilary. And they did everything to make sure she won the primary. This is corporate power at work. They can make whatever they want happen. And we let them do it. Calculated, directed propaganda to manipulate the audiences of whatever networks they own. This is why corporate media switched exclusively to Biden and independent media still stood with Bernie. Independent media isn't bought.
Yes, the people voted out of "fear" because the media kept telling them over and over that Bernie had no chance. It couldn't have been farther from the truth. Yet again, public thinking was manipulated and influenced. It's so goddamn corrupt. This is what will happen every election where a progressive exists in unless we start refusing the DNC their vote. That is our only leverage. If we deny them election after election, they lose power, they lose control. Eventually, they will front somebody with more progressive ideas because it's what the people want.
The problem which keeps occurring is that, it's the same damn argument every election. "We gotta get the republican out of office!" "We have to prevent the republicans from taking office!" "We can vote our conscience NEXT election." "Next time, I will vote based on policy not just down party lines." It never changes. There will always be reasons to settle for whatever is given no matter how shit the options are. And you can bet networks will be telling the people as much. For some, it's almost a foreign feeling to decide not to choose between options. But it's integral that we do if we want change.
My decision to not participate is primarily a moral one. I refuse to be responsible for either of these puppets getting into office. From here on out, I will only ever vote based on policy and whether or not the candidate is actually for the people.
Yeah shit is corrupt and awful, not disagreeing with any of that. But I still think he could have done it. Maybe he wasn't the ideal candidate in terms of being too soft when it mattered the most, but he made the establishment sweat more than they ever had. Next time it won't be Bernie, but they will sweat even more, and if it doesn't happen that time it will the next time The movement doesn't live and die with Bernie, and zooming away from his loss, things actually look really promising for the future.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Sept 2, 2020 20:51:37 GMT -5
Come on, man! 😂
He has done many of these, this YouTube channel is brilliant.
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Post by The-Ghost-Dancer on Sept 3, 2020 9:16:21 GMT -5
Beady’s Here Now so you're starting a biden thread without ever following up on posts in your trump thread,seems like not following up on things is flavour of the month. I still think it's because you don't have the fuckin balls to follow up your trump thread cos you know you were fighting a losing battle
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Sept 3, 2020 17:20:32 GMT -5
Joe Biden is like that struggling student trying to bullshit an oral presentation, believing he’s outsmarted both the teacher and the class.
He hasn’t. The audience hears the incoherent tangents - and sees the lost man at the front - understanding that such confusion depicts someone not capable of the assignment.
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