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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2018 9:55:24 GMT -5
The interesting thing is that particular Green Day song (Boulevard of Broken Dreams) is not the only Oasis reference on that album. That said, Noel has never begrudged anyone cobbling together bits of his tunes to make other ones. If anything, his label might have taken legal issue with people in the past, but not him. What other Oasis references is there? Just out of interest. Amercian Idiot was the first album I bought, loved that album. There's a bit that sounds nearly identical to Rockin' Chair. So much so in fact, that I started singing the lyric while playing Rockin' Chair myself a few years back. But I don't know off the top of my head. Haven't listened to that album in ages. ----- EDIT: I found the one that I was thinking of... live4ever.proboards.com/post/1546582/thread |
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Post by LlAM on Oct 10, 2018 11:07:50 GMT -5
Tracklist just leaked!
1. Oh Leak!
2. Leak Out, It's Alright
3. Crimson Leaker*
4. Mile High Leak
5. Leak In The Water
6. Aleak On The Rope (AA Rework)
7. She Must Be One Of Leak
8. Just Let It Leak Down Over Me
9. Pointless Instrumental Probably The One From Be Here Now Anniversary
10. The Leak Doesn't Remain The Same
*) I personally don't care who he credits. Do we even know for fact that Gaz contributed more to The Mexican than backing vocals and production (production=reworking/remixing)?
What worries me is that Noel said their work was rubbish, but now he's using/used/released most of it.
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Post by mossy on Oct 10, 2018 12:15:10 GMT -5
Tracklist just leaked! 1. Oh Leak! 2. Leak Out, It's Alright 3. Crimson Leaker* 4. Mile High Leak 5. Leak In The Water 6. Aleak On The Rope (AA Rework) 7. She Must Be One Of Leak 8. Just Let It Leak Down Over Me 9. Pointless Instrumental Probably The One From Be Here Now Anniversary 10. The Leak Doesn't Remain The Same *) I personally don't care who he credits. Do we even know for fact that Gaz contributed more to The Mexican than backing vocals and production (production=reworking/remixing)? What worries me is that Noel said their work was rubbish, but now he's using/used/released most of it. Gaz claims to have written music and lyrics to the original version which had a line ending with “some kinda aphrodisiac”, which Noel changed to the infamously shite “Kid On Crack”! You can actually hear their version in the background of this HFB doc. It’s slower and bluesy: X |
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Post by crisppacket on Oct 10, 2018 12:30:47 GMT -5
Noel’s people got him a writing credit on the Girls Aloud song Life Got Cold, since the chorus sounded a teeny tiny bit like wonderwall. Bit pathetic of them tbh, decent tune though. Girls Aloud are peak
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Post by birchy on Oct 10, 2018 12:56:49 GMT -5
What other Oasis references is there? Just out of interest. Amercian Idiot was the first album I bought, loved that album. There's a bit that sounds nearly identical to Rockin' Chair. So much so in fact, that I started singing the lyric while playing Rockin' Chair myself a few years back. But I don't know off the top of my head. Haven't listened to that album in ages. The start of Wake Me Up When September Ends sounds just like Rockin Chair. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2018 14:44:41 GMT -5
There's a bit that sounds nearly identical to Rockin' Chair. So much so in fact, that I started singing the lyric while playing Rockin' Chair myself a few years back. But I don't know off the top of my head. Haven't listened to that album in ages. The start of Wake Me Up When September Ends sounds just like Rockin Chair. The riff that plays on top of the outro is nearly identical to the vocal melody found in Whatshername... clips for comparison below.... I get that they are different keys and such... the melodies still blend perfectly though. I'm not saying it's a rip, it would be tough to prove... just interesting is all. |
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Post by bt95 on Oct 10, 2018 15:35:37 GMT -5
The start of Wake Me Up When September Ends sounds just like Rockin Chair. The riff that plays on top of the outro is nearly identical to the vocal melody found in Whatshername... clips for comparison below.... I get that they are different keys and such... the melodies still blend perfectly though. I'm not saying it's a rip, it would be tough to prove... just interesting is all. They really do! Yeh, doubt it's a rip, just one of those coincidences. |
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Post by Tongueless Ghost Of Sin on Oct 10, 2018 16:12:37 GMT -5
I hate threads like this. Ruins songs for me. Ignorance is bliss
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Post by bogaloo on Oct 10, 2018 16:13:20 GMT -5
I was referring to the AA question in particular. They were hired as producers, and to cut a long story short, believe they did more than just production and, hence want a songwiting credit. To my best knowledge that was not the case with the RP. My point is, we don't really know how much of a generalized practice this is to make a general assumption (yeah, I know, there's the beatles "rip offs", but mant others could be accused of the same thing). By the way, I'm really not sure how may songs were the RP credited in as cowriters after sueing? Does anyone know?
Also, there is also the question raised by MONO regarding finance and power. That is true, and people know this is the case, I'd say it also enforces my point that rules are not clear (and maybe they were meant not to be clear, precisely beacuse of power questions), the thing is I think those questions shuld be clear from the start and should be specified in contracts regarding crediting before any work being done.
Go listen to Gil Scottt-Heron's "Home Is Where The Hatred Is" and then listen to Keep on Reaching. Do you hear any similarities? Sorry, I forgot to reply! I hadn't listened to that album in ages, so thanks for remembering me of its existence, its been good company to a long afternood good old bureaucratic work. Yes, I can hear similarities in the rhythm (so to speak) during the intro and on the middle where you can hear the keyboards(?),the structure is kind of similar too. Funny this. But, you see, for me this is kind of a normal thing??! Finding an idea in a song and taking it somewhere else. I, personally wouldn't consider this a rip off, but anyone who does is welcome to disagree. |
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Post by spaneli on Oct 10, 2018 16:48:05 GMT -5
Go listen to Gil Scottt-Heron's "Home Is Where The Hatred Is" and then listen to Keep on Reaching. Do you hear any similarities? Sorry, I forgot to reply! I hadn't listened to that album in ages, so thanks for remembering me of its existence, its been good company to a long afternood good old bureaucratic work. Yes, I can hear similarities in the rythm (so to speak) during the intro and on the middle where you can hear the keyboards(?),the structure is kind of similar too. Funny this. But, you see, for me this is kind of a normal thing??! Finding an idea in a song and taking it somewhere else. I, personally wouldn't consider this a rip off, but anyone who does is welcome to disagree. Keep on Reachin' is such a mish-mash of 70's soul. You could probably find 5 or 6 songs in that one song. I thought it was an homage to the genre, not a rip-off. |
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Oct 10, 2018 17:00:29 GMT -5
Tracklist just leaked! 1. Oh Leak! 2. Leak Out, It's Alright 3. Crimson Leaker* 4. Mile High Leak 5. Leak In The Water 6. Aleak On The Rope (AA Rework) 7. She Must Be One Of Leak 8. Just Let It Leak Down Over Me 9. Pointless Instrumental Probably The One From Be Here Now Anniversary 10. The Leak Doesn't Remain The Same *) I personally don't care who he credits. Do we even know for fact that Gaz contributed more to The Mexican than backing vocals and production (production=reworking/remixing)? What worries me is that Noel said their work was rubbish, but now he's using/used/released most of it. Gaz claims to have written music and lyrics to the original version which had a line ending with “some kinda aphrodisiac”, which Noel changed to the infamously shite “Kid On Crack”! You can actually hear their version in the background of this HFB doc. It’s slower and bluesy: X Yeah... it's a shit song either way. |
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Post by bogaloo on Oct 10, 2018 17:15:20 GMT -5
Sorry, I forgot to reply! I hadn't listened to that album in ages, so thanks for remembering me of its existence, its been good company to a long afternood good old bureaucratic work. Yes, I can hear similarities in the rythm (so to speak) during the intro and on the middle where you can hear the keyboards(?),the structure is kind of similar too. Funny this. But, you see, for me this is kind of a normal thing??! Finding an idea in a song and taking it somewhere else. I, personally wouldn't consider this a rip off, but anyone who does is welcome to disagree. Keep on Reachin' is such a mish-mash of 70's soul. You could probably find 5 or 6 songs in that one song. I thought it was an homage to the genre, not a rip-off. Yeah, exactly! |
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Post by tomlivesforever on Oct 10, 2018 17:31:17 GMT -5
Noel has spoken about it too, Gaz has just given us far more detail and I suspect that's because for Noel to give more detail and be honest about it would probably confirm Gaz's account. And in regard to Liam, as I said it isn't an exact comparison but Noel has a pop a Liam for for using songwriters, Noel uses people to contribute to his writing but doesnt credit them. I think there is a element of hypocrisy there. Even his mate Weller gave Simon Dine writing credits for doing what to me seems like a similar job, until they fell out about it, maybe Weller took advice from Noel. -- Maybe, but I still would like to hear his side of the story, to the same extent we heard Gaz's.
Noel uses people to contribute to his writing but doesnt credit them.-- I think you are assuming that. I think It's not that clear, otherwise, maybe Holmes would (possibly) also have wanted a co-write. For me, it may also be the case that they have different views on what co-writing and producing is. I've been reading further into the subject and the whole crediting thing seems very variable, and sometimes subjective. I may be wrong but I feel that if this was that clear-cut, he wouldn't be taking so may risks using this material any further. I think there is a element of hypocrisy there. -- If, indeed their input was absolutely and undeniably that of co-writers, then you are right. Like I said I have doubts regarding the crediting rules, as they seem very unclear. It reminds me of rules for publishing papers- every publisher has their rules. Higher impact factor usually means stricter rules. For instance, in case reports, some people like to include doctors that assisted the patient being reported as co-authors, even if they had no direct input in writing the paper (it is sometimes seen as some form of offense if they don't), but the fact is, higher impact publishers clearly state that only people writing or scientifically revising or designing the paper should be credited as authors, even if the other doctors did save the guy's life! Noel has had ample opportunity to discuss the project and has, often in vague or flippant terms. The most striking things he has said about it for me are, its shit, I burnt the masters, I found them in a sock draw and there's good stuff there. Now I'm not taking him literally but the fact he's often not talked about them seriously say's a lot to me. Gaz in his weird way has given what looks to me an honest account, I believe him. Noel has talked a load of bollocks about it which I think is revealing about the way he behaved. |
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Post by bogaloo on Oct 11, 2018 5:22:31 GMT -5
Noel has spoken about it too, Gaz has just given us far more detail and I suspect that's because for Noel to give more detail and be honest about it would probably confirm Gaz's account.-- Maybe, but I still would like to hear his side of the story, to the same extent we heard Gaz's.
Noel uses people to contribute to his writing but doesnt credit them.-- I think you are assuming that. I think It's not that clear, otherwise, maybe Holmes would (possibly) also have wanted a co-write. For me, it may also be the case that they have different views on what co-writing and producing is. I've been reading further into the subject and the whole crediting thing seems very variable, and sometimes subjective. I may be wrong but I feel that if this was that clear-cut, he wouldn't be taking so may risks using this material any further. I think there is a element of hypocrisy there. -- If, indeed their input was absolutely and undeniably that of co-writers, then you are right. Like I said I have doubts regarding the crediting rules, as they seem very unclear. It reminds me of rules for publishing papers- every publisher has their rules. Higher impact factor usually means stricter rules. For instance, in case reports, some people like to include doctors that assisted the patient being reported as co-authors, even if they had no direct input in writing the paper (it is sometimes seen as some form of offense if they don't), but the fact is, higher impact publishers clearly state that only people writing or scientifically revising or designing the paper should be credited as authors, even if the other doctors did save the guy's life! Noel has had ample opportunity to discuss the project and has, often in vague or flippant terms. The most striking things he has said about it for me are, its shit, I burnt the masters, I found them in a sock draw and there's good stuff there. Now I'm not taking him literally but the fact he's often not talked about them seriously say's a lot to me. Gaz in his weird way has given what looks to me an honest account, I believe him. Noel has talked a load of bollocks about it which I think is revealing about the way he behaved. Fair enough. For me, the description and interpretation spaneli gave is basically it. I'd agree 110 percent, if that was possible. Regarding Noel's discussion of this matter, you are absolutely right, but I suppose that, at least when he was being interviewed, it was also part of the journalists role to push further for answers he was unwilling to give. Probably it would imply admitting doubts, mistakes, vulnerabilities and fears at a crucial time in his carreer, so there is no way in hell he's going to give this away, even when pushed, but it would make for a better interview if they had tried. He knows he has screwed up, and what you see regarding his behaviour os precisely that. My question is if he did it on purpose, and I don't think he did. The masters thing was an attempt to make people shut up about it at the time.The sock drawer comment was made during that Matt Morgan Q and A. It seemed to me like and offhanded comment. He might even have found one (of the many copies and files he probably has in his power) in a sock drawer, that's not really the question. I think he shouldn't be using this material any further, as I said before, that, for me is the question. Now, this doesn't exempt the AA from their role on how things turned out, precisely due to the reasons that spaneli pointed out. Gaz also does not acknowledge his responsabilities in the situation in his posts and keeps rambling about it as if he was an absolute victim. That, to me makes them both come out badly of this thing, as much as I sympathise with Gaz's position. |
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Post by theyknowwhatimean on Oct 11, 2018 5:41:16 GMT -5
Gaz claims to have written music and lyrics to the original version which had a line ending with “some kinda aphrodisiac”, which Noel changed to the infamously shite “Kid On Crack”! You can actually hear their version in the background of this HFB doc. It’s slower and bluesy: X Yeah... it's a shit song either way. I disagree. |
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Post by mostlyharmless on Oct 11, 2018 11:07:14 GMT -5
There's no clear line drawn and they both have ground regarding giving/not giving co-writing credit. However with a power imbalance, usually we expect the one with more power to show some courtesy, even though it's not legally binding. Gaz clearly need it more for both artistic recognition and financial reason, and by doing so what does Noel lose?
Noel has always been very proud, and even obsessed about claiming writing songs all by himself. He says it over and over like it's the holy grail. I respect that but I think an artist's holy grail should always be the actual outcome of the work.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Oct 11, 2018 13:26:20 GMT -5
At this point in my life I could give two shits about this project.
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Post by mossy on Oct 11, 2018 15:46:43 GMT -5
At this point in my life I could give two shits about this project. Yet here you are posting in these threads ;-P X |
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Post by vespa on Oct 12, 2018 2:53:41 GMT -5
Don’t be shocked if the whole thing is released .Noel always has a plan which he told gaz about..Thing is at the time Noel needed the first album to sell and it did as he spent a lot of money ..but the AA seem to be obsessed by it, his plan will have always been to work to something like this and his last album was a kind of ice breaker
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Post by mossy on Oct 12, 2018 4:24:00 GMT -5
Don’t be shocked if the whole thing is released .Noel always has a plan which he told gaz about..Thing is at the time Noel needed the first album to sell and it did as he spent a lot of money ..but the AA seem to be obsessed by it, his plan will have always been to work to something like this and his last album was a kind of ice breaker I’d be very shocked if the *whole* thing gets released. That is, every song recorded in those sessions. In order of likelihood this is what I think may happen: 1. Most likely: Noel reworks Crimson Rambler and/or any other so far unreleased songs and puts them on album #4. “ Some of it is pretty good... I’ve been picking it apart... doing some recording”. Lots of moaning from Gaz will follow and he’ll yet again have to kick himself for not sorting out a proper contract, the big hippie. 2. Less likely, but possible: Noel will put some of the tracks on a HFB reissue as bonus material. He’ll only put out alternative versions of songs that already appeared on that album though (IIHAG, STC etc). As it sounds like there’s a lot of AA material (possibly 2 CDs worth) he could drip these out over multiple reissues (10th and 20th anniversaries). Their slower version of BOTMI with bongos might appear on a CY reissue too. Or he might do a b-sides and rarities compilation. Or a bonus CD on a solo best of compilation. Anyway, there are many ways he could release the tracks over time, we’ve just got to be patient like we were with the Mustique demos. I doubt we’ll ever officially hear the original AA versions of Mexican, Right Stuff, Crimson Rambler though. Cos Noel was the genius solo artist who wrote those entirely himself right? Can’t have demos coming out which he isn’t even on. X |
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Post by Flashbax on Oct 12, 2018 9:18:23 GMT -5
How realistic is a 10 year anniversary reissue of NGHFB?
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Post by LlAM on Oct 12, 2018 14:56:21 GMT -5
How realistic is a 10 year anniversary reissue of NGHFB? I really can't see it being relevant enough. |
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Post by Tongueless Ghost Of Sin on Oct 12, 2018 16:02:32 GMT -5
At this point in my life I could give two shits about this project. Yet here you are posting in these threads ;-P X He said he COULD give two shits, implying he cares to some extent. |
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Post by fabulousbakers on Oct 13, 2018 3:28:20 GMT -5
At this point in my life I could give two shits about this project. Yet here you are posting in these threads ;-P X Because he said he could give two shits - in other words he is saying he is interested so that's why he's posting about it. |
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Post by mossy on Oct 13, 2018 4:38:28 GMT -5
How realistic is a 10 year anniversary reissue of NGHFB? To quote Princess Leia: “Help me tenth anniversary, you’re my only hope.” X |
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