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Post by mystoryisgory on Oct 29, 2018 18:44:51 GMT -5
Noel needs a "Zooropa" moment. "Who Built the Moon" definitely was not that. Sad to say but surely he’s beyond the age of a completely successful artistic reinvention? It’s a step forward undoubtedly (and by far my favourite post-90s Oasis related album) but he needed to strike when the iron was hot. He needed an Achtung Baby moment in Oasis after Be Here Now. That should have been their Rattle & Hum - an overblown and somewhat self-indulgent piece that prompted a major rethink and musical reinvention. It wasn’t. Instead they hired some bloke from Gary Glitter knock off band Heavy Stereo. Maybe that argument is futile and perhaps age isn’t a factor. Perhaps the one thing that will really stop him from achieving a great reinvention is his aversion to artistic guidance (see bland ‘yes men’ producers like Sardy). He’s always been insecure about artistic guidance from someone else - Holmes definitely pushed the envelope to success and is the most influential producer he’s worked with but he can be pushed a lot more for sure. How far he’s willing to go is another matter. There are many solo artists who have successfully reinvented themselves very late into their careers. In the 90's Scott Walker recast himself as a nihilistic avant-garde opera singer and Ryuichi Sakamoto has done everything from score movies to ambient masterpieces about near-death experiences after practically inventing synthpop with Yellow Magic Orchestra. Granted, both of them have 100 times the daring, musically adventurous spirit that Noel does, but I'd like to think that a future left-turn is still not out of his reach, even if he doesn't go nearly as far as we hope. |
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Post by noliamno on Oct 30, 2018 6:30:32 GMT -5
And now Scott Walker is the Governor of Wisconsin. Now THAT's a reinvention.
I'm still not clear on why Noel FUCKING Gallagher needs to change anything. Why don't you whiney asses find a NEW artist to cling to instead of trying get Noel to "reinvent" himself.
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Post by oasis6 on Oct 30, 2018 13:23:19 GMT -5
One thing I'll say is I hope he doesn't do more "Wednesday" instrumentals. Ya they sound cool and all and they fit the vibe/atmosphere/course of the album
(even though he admittedly screwed up the order, as part 1 should have been before Black and White Sunshine. It annoys me that the instrumental breaks that 3 some up, because for me those final 3 songs are some of his best solo work. Same for the Mexican on Chasing Yesterday, a complete turd that breaks up The Right Stuff, While the Song Remains the Same, You Know We Can't Go Back and Ballad of the Mighty I. What a top foursome that would be if the Mexican didn't interrupt it. But his track listing efforts are a whole other topic....)
Back on track, I want more than 8 full songs this time. 3 of the 8 I don't particularly love, I don't hate them at all, but they only do so much for me (that's the nice way of saying I tune out when they come on and/or am tempted to skip them).
So while there are 5 full out songs I like, that's unfortunately ranked #3 for me out of the 3 albums. It does sound by far the best of the 3 though. I have no problem with an album taking me on a journey and I like that WBTM was like that and I'll gladly take more of it. But in the end, I want the songs to be full quality as well, or at least to have more than 5.
That's just how I feel, Noel could cover a whole Kesha album and I'd probably love it, so I'm not afraid of being let down, I'm just being nitpicky.
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Post by freddy838 on Oct 30, 2018 14:28:25 GMT -5
And now Scott Walker is the Governor of Wisconsin. Now THAT's a reinvention. I'm still not clear on why Noel FUCKING Gallagher needs to change anything. Why don't you whiney asses find a NEW artist to cling to instead of trying get Noel to "reinvent" himself. I wouldn't go quite that far, but I get where you're coming from. I like it when he goes in a different direction, but not when he restricts himself by writing in the studio. Too much of his last album doesn't really go anywhere and there weren't enough songs either. I'm more encouraged by him going back through older stuff (probably screwing AA again!) and working on that as well as writing brand new stuff. I just hope he gets rid of his stompy dance routines when he plays it live. |
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Post by matt on Oct 30, 2018 14:33:32 GMT -5
And now Scott Walker is the Governor of Wisconsin. Now THAT's a reinvention. I'm still not clear on why Noel FUCKING Gallagher needs to change anything. Why don't you whiney asses find a NEW artist to cling to instead of trying get Noel to "reinvent" himself. You talk as I feel he’s still writing classic tunes from the 90s. I’d rather listen to him fart in a bath tub than hear shite like Girl With The X-Ray Eyes ever again. |
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Post by The Escapist on Oct 30, 2018 14:53:47 GMT -5
Anyone who thinks Noel is ever going to make genuinely experimental music is mental. What I want are tunes that are experimental for Noel, and tracks like The Right Stuff, Fort Knox, Holy Mountain, and Beautiful World are certainly that. I just want it to sound modern, fresh, and different to what he did for the twenty years before Chasing Yesterday, I'm not here for a Death-Grips-type Noel album.
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Post by spaneli on Oct 30, 2018 15:57:31 GMT -5
Anyone who thinks Noel is ever going to make genuinely experimental music is mental. What I want are tunes that are experimental for Noel, and tracks like The Right Stuff, Fort Knox, Holy Mountain, and Beautiful World are certainly that. I just want it to sound modern, fresh, and different to what he did for the twenty years before Chasing Yesterday, I'm not here for a Death-Grips-type Noel album. This. I'm not understanding what some are expecting from Noel. He completely changes his approach in the studio, his writing process, makes music that sounds fresh and experimental for him, and somehow he's fallen short? Like, for an artist at his age to do that, well it's rare. Rarer than some are willing to admit. And it's really fuckin difficult. That is, to unlearn everything you've been doing for 20+ years. Like, there are 6 different genres on Who Built the Moon; trip-hop, soul, instrumental atmospheric, country, dance, and rock. We're watching a pretty special moment in Noel's career. He's growing at an age when most artists don't grow, when most recede, when the reasons for growing really have to be internal. I honestly think people want Noel to reinvent a genre, at this point. Like when things are being compared to Zooropa, an album that has almost no comparative before or since. Like c'mon, if we're comparing him to once in a lifetime kind of albums, then we're just waiting on him to fail. |
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Post by ninestonecowboy on Oct 30, 2018 17:20:03 GMT -5
Anyone who thinks Noel is ever going to make genuinely experimental music is mental. What I want are tunes that are experimental for Noel, and tracks like The Right Stuff, Fort Knox, Holy Mountain, and Beautiful World are certainly that. I just want it to sound modern, fresh, and different to what he did for the twenty years before Chasing Yesterday, I'm not here for a Death-Grips-type Noel album. I'm not understanding what some are expecting from Noel. That's not the fault of other people though. Noel talked the last album up like it was some incredible experimental masterpiece and then it become evident that it wasn't at all. it might've been a little different for Noel, but still pretty generic for the most part, song-wise. so maybe people are just expecting what he says to be true but i think it's fair to say now that his music is always going to be fairly straight forward, because that's what he does well. so i think people shouldn't be too expectant on that front, but also Noel should probably be a bit more realistic about what it actually is rather than talk it up as something that it really isn't. |
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Post by Let It Bleed on Oct 30, 2018 17:29:02 GMT -5
I'm not understanding what some are expecting from Noel. That's not the fault of other people though. Noel talked the last album up like it was some incredible experimental masterpiece and then it become evident that it wasn't at all. it might've been a little different for Noel, but still pretty generic for the most part, song-wise. so maybe people are just expecting what he says to be true but i think it's fair to say now that his music is always going to be fairly straight forward, because that's what he does well. so i think people shouldn't be too expectant on that front, but also Noel should probably be a bit more realistic about what it actually is rather than talk it up as something that it really isn't. I hope you're one day compensated for your 15 seconds of fame, Gaz. Just kidding, I'm on the spectrum.... Thanks. |
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Post by Lennon2217 on Oct 30, 2018 17:51:41 GMT -5
As long as Noel stays away from songs like "If I Had A Gun..." or "The Dying of The Light" I'll be a happy camper.
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Post by matt on Oct 30, 2018 17:57:39 GMT -5
I'm not understanding what some are expecting from Noel. That's not the fault of other people though. Noel talked the last album up like it was some incredible experimental masterpiece and then it become evident that it wasn't at all. it might've been a little different for Noel, but still pretty generic for the most part, song-wise. so maybe people are just expecting what he says to be true but i think it's fair to say now that his music is always going to be fairly straight forward, because that's what he does well. so i think people shouldn't be too expectant on that front, but also Noel should probably be a bit more realistic about what it actually is rather than talk it up as something that it really isn't. I don’t think he ever hyped it up as ‘experimental’. And for us fans, we weren’t pining for a Kid A album. I remember from everything that was said before we’d heard one note of the album that we were taking on board Holmes’s point of view of making a modern record and one that wasn’t just mid tempo plodding. We got that emphatically. For sure, he had silly digs at ‘parka monkeys’ who wouldn’t like it, but then again most of them didnt like it because it was different so his point was proven. I just think that some folk hated on it because it was Noel - the pantomime villain for those sad enough to take sides - doing something a bit different and that it was also critically acclaimed. |
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Post by Lennon2217 on Oct 30, 2018 18:37:04 GMT -5
I think a lot of people push back at Noel because the last album didn't have a full 10 Noel sung tunes on it.
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Oct 31, 2018 0:17:51 GMT -5
Noel is just not "that" artist.
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Post by franklomax on Oct 31, 2018 1:04:05 GMT -5
I'm missing Sardy. I thought Who Built the Moon flopped.
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Post by mossy on Oct 31, 2018 2:54:41 GMT -5
I think a lot of people push back at Noel because the last album didn't have a full 10 Noel sung tunes on it. I think the fact he was slagging off his own fans, calling them knuckle dragging parka monkeys, before they’d even heard the album, predisposed a lot of them to hate the album. X |
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Post by mossy on Oct 31, 2018 3:02:36 GMT -5
That's not the fault of other people though. Noel talked the last album up like it was some incredible experimental masterpiece and then it become evident that it wasn't at all. it might've been a little different for Noel, but still pretty generic for the most part, song-wise. so maybe people are just expecting what he says to be true but i think it's fair to say now that his music is always going to be fairly straight forward, because that's what he does well. so i think people shouldn't be too expectant on that front, but also Noel should probably be a bit more realistic about what it actually is rather than talk it up as something that it really isn't. I don’t think he ever hyped it up as ‘experimental’. From the press release: “finely poised between experimental and a jukebox of ageless influence” “Gallagher and Holmes tuned into French psychedelic pop as much as classic electro, soul, rock, disco and dance on a cultured adventure into recorded sound” “Setting fire to familiarity, Gallagher wrote entirely in the studio for the first time, leaping into laboratory conditions and a cut and paste adventure with Holmes, turning his back, at least temporarily, on studied solitude and six strings” “placid instrumentals and hypnotic, eastern influenced grooves alongside gutsy balcony-shakers and widescreen, cinematic walls of sound, Who Built The Moon? is an album for the apocalypse” “Beautiful World bubbles with progressive, ambient electronica.” I must admit when I first heard Beautiful World I mistook it for an Aphex Twin track... X |
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Post by matt on Oct 31, 2018 3:25:20 GMT -5
I don’t think he ever hyped it up as ‘experimental’. From the press release: “finely poised between experimental and a jukebox of ageless influence” “Gallagher and Holmes tuned into French psychedelic pop as much as classic electro, soul, rock, disco and dance on a cultured adventure into recorded sound” “Setting fire to familiarity, Gallagher wrote entirely in the studio for the first time, leaping into laboratory conditions and a cut and paste adventure with Holmes, turning his back, at least temporarily, on studied solitude and six strings” “placid instrumentals and hypnotic, eastern influenced grooves alongside gutsy balcony-shakers and widescreen, cinematic walls of sound, Who Built The Moon? is an album for the apocalypse” “Beautiful World bubbles with progressive, ambient electronica.” I must admit when I first heard Beautiful World I mistook it for an Aphex Twin track... X But most of that is just describing the sound and production techniques? You’d really have to be picky or look for excuses to have issues with this? The Beautiful World description is the only one over the top but then again it only ‘bubbles’ with these aspects and doesn’t necessarily say full blown progressive ambient electronica. And if people paid attention, they’d clearly hear those electronica influences that are clearly Holmes. You’re clearly a fan of bing experimemtal acts like AA mossy, and it’s not anything like the sensational quotes we heard from Noel about that particular project. I still think people are projecting their strange insecurities onto Noel with this. He did what he set out to achieve and it’s just laughable to hear what counts for ‘experimental’ from largely a bunch of Beady Eye fans. |
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Post by mossy on Oct 31, 2018 4:13:37 GMT -5
From the press release: “finely poised between experimental and a jukebox of ageless influence” “Gallagher and Holmes tuned into French psychedelic pop as much as classic electro, soul, rock, disco and dance on a cultured adventure into recorded sound” “Setting fire to familiarity, Gallagher wrote entirely in the studio for the first time, leaping into laboratory conditions and a cut and paste adventure with Holmes, turning his back, at least temporarily, on studied solitude and six strings” “placid instrumentals and hypnotic, eastern influenced grooves alongside gutsy balcony-shakers and widescreen, cinematic walls of sound, Who Built The Moon? is an album for the apocalypse” “Beautiful World bubbles with progressive, ambient electronica.” I must admit when I first heard Beautiful World I mistook it for an Aphex Twin track... X But most of that is just describing the sound and production techniques? You’d really have to be picky or look for excuses to have issues with this? The Beautiful World description is the only one over the top but then again it only ‘bubbles’ with these aspects and doesn’t necessarily say full blown progressive ambient electronica. And if people paid attention, they’d clearly hear those electronica influences that are clearly Holmes. You’re clearly a fan of bing experimemtal acts like AA mossy, and it’s not anything like the sensational quotes we heard from Noel about that particular project. I still think people are projecting their strange insecurities onto Noel with this. He did what he set out to achieve and it’s just laughable to hear what counts for ‘experimental’ from largely a bunch of Beady Eye fans. I was just making the point that Noel and his team did hype it a bit as experimental. There is always a lot of hyperbole in press releases of course but there are many things in the WBTM one that are so outrageously exaggerated they make me laugh: “an album for the apocalypse”! Anyway, I’m all for more tunes from Noel in the vein of Fort Knox. Peace. X |
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Post by mossy on Oct 31, 2018 5:20:26 GMT -5
PS I think “experimental” is not a well-defined word that in the context of music can mean different things to different people.
For me being experimental means doing things that have never been done before. So I think WBTM is a great step for Noel, but I don’t consider it experimental at all. People have been writing in the studio for decades. People have been using samples for decades. People have been making trip hop style instrumentals for decades. I don’t really even consider the AA to be that experimental. I’d argue FSOL and Humanoid were far more experimental: using recently invented instruments to help create entirely new genres.
Stuff I’d consider truly experimental: John Cage, Stockhausen, Brian Eno (helped invent the ambient genre), Flaming Lips (4 cd album to be played simultaneously), Can (early use of studio as an instrument, composed tracks by editing), Hendrix (early use studio as an instrument, mad guitar skills and effects not seen in rock music before), DJ Shadow (first album made entirely from samples), Beatles (Indian influence to western music etc), Velvet Underground, Miles Davis (helped invent jazz-rock), Black Sabbath (helped invent metal and every ridiculous metal sub-category since like doom, sludge, stoner etc), Cybotron (helped invent techno), Kraftwerk, Kool Herc (one of the first rappers, helped invent hip hop), Yellow Magic Orchestra (first use of an 808), PiL (helped invent post-punk, bringing dub, funk and disco into rock music), Lee Scratch Perry and other Jamaican producers (for inventing and popularising remixes), Sun Ra, Radiohead (not necessarily for the music, but for the first “pay what you want” album), loads of one hit wonders (for helping invent house, trance, dancehall, jungle, drum & bass, breakbeat, big beat, psytrance, psydub, dubstep, trap, etc.), Captain Beefheart (for being fast and bulbous). You get my drift.
X
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Post by noliamno on Oct 31, 2018 10:59:45 GMT -5
And now Scott Walker is the Governor of Wisconsin. Now THAT's a reinvention. I'm still not clear on why Noel FUCKING Gallagher needs to change anything. Why don't you whiney asses find a NEW artist to cling to instead of trying get Noel to "reinvent" himself. You talk as I feel he’s still writing classic tunes from the 90s. I’d rather listen to him fart in a bath tub than hear shite like Girl With The X-Ray Eyes ever again. Noel is Noel. He's still writing Noel songs. I would suggest if one didn't like Noel songs, that the pursue other artists that they would prefer. |
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Post by LlAM on Oct 31, 2018 14:23:54 GMT -5
It was experimental for Noel, let's not be whiny. Man opens his album with a trip-hop big-beat instrumental, we can't be sat here disappointed in how safe it was. Who Built the Moon? was a massive step forward. Did Noel have a clear hypothesis? Did he isolate an independent variable? Did he carefully change a control variable? Did he keep all other variables constant? Did he collect clean data? Did he analyse this data statistically, drawing a conclusion to confirm or disprove his hypothesis? You know guys, thinking about it, I’m pretty sure Noel wasn’t very experimental at all. X Well he wrote the songs in the studio which was experimental for Noel. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2018 15:08:29 GMT -5
I'm missing Sardy. I thought Who Built the Moon flopped. A terrible opinion from a terrible man. |
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Post by Flashbax on Oct 31, 2018 15:44:01 GMT -5
Noel needs a "Zooropa" moment. "Who Built the Moon" definitely was not that. Sad to say but surely he’s beyond the age of a completely successful artistic reinvention? It’s a step forward undoubtedly (and by far my favourite post-90s Oasis related album) but he needed to strike when the iron was hot. He needed an Achtung Baby moment in Oasis after Be Here Now. That should have been their Rattle & Hum - an overblown and somewhat self-indulgent piece that prompted a major rethink and musical reinvention. It wasn’t. Instead they hired some bloke from Gary Glitter knock off band Heavy Stereo. Maybe that argument is futile and perhaps age isn’t a factor. Perhaps the one thing that will really stop him from achieving a great reinvention is his aversion to artistic guidance (see bland ‘yes men’ producers like Sardy). He’s always been insecure about artistic guidance from someone else - Holmes definitely pushed the envelope to success and is the most influential producer he’s worked with but he can be pushed a lot more for sure. How far he’s willing to go is another matter. I think he did a pretty good job with Standing on the Shoulder of Giants as his Zooropa. And Gem had not anyhting to do with it. People always say that all the Oasis albums sound the same, well Giants sounds nothing like the first three albums. There isn't even a hit single. How does that record sound like Be Here Now? He made a mistake that he wanted to make another 'classic Oasis' album with Heathen Chemistry. |
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Post by matt on Oct 31, 2018 16:58:16 GMT -5
Sad to say but surely he’s beyond the age of a completely successful artistic reinvention? It’s a step forward undoubtedly (and by far my favourite post-90s Oasis related album) but he needed to strike when the iron was hot. He needed an Achtung Baby moment in Oasis after Be Here Now. That should have been their Rattle & Hum - an overblown and somewhat self-indulgent piece that prompted a major rethink and musical reinvention. It wasn’t. Instead they hired some bloke from Gary Glitter knock off band Heavy Stereo. Maybe that argument is futile and perhaps age isn’t a factor. Perhaps the one thing that will really stop him from achieving a great reinvention is his aversion to artistic guidance (see bland ‘yes men’ producers like Sardy). He’s always been insecure about artistic guidance from someone else - Holmes definitely pushed the envelope to success and is the most influential producer he’s worked with but he can be pushed a lot more for sure. How far he’s willing to go is another matter. I think he did a pretty good job with Standing on the Shoulder of Giants as his Zooropa. And Gem had not anyhting to do with it. People always say that all the Oasis albums sound the same, well Giants sounds nothing like the first three albums. There isn't even a hit single. How does that record sound like Be Here Now? He made a mistake that he wanted to make another 'classic Oasis' album with Heathen Chemistry. I think there’s a different mood going on in Giants but not necessarily an experimental vibe. There are definitely hints - Fuckin In The Bushes is relatively experimental for Oasis as a hard rock song that utilises some tricks usually typical of electronic artists (e.g. the drum loop). Also, the production is utilised to greater effect to enhance the song (e.g. Gas Panic) but song structure wise, there’s nothing ambitious to it; these are still pretty straightforward songs. And I don’t think there was any intention not to write hits, I think a lot of them just fell flat due to their mediocrity. I may have read it somewhere but I’m sure it was Noel’s intention to be a lot more far out for Giants, but with lineup changes, he gave up and it does sound like a guy who is trying to revert from the norm but ending up not giving a fuck. |
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Post by The Escapist on Oct 31, 2018 17:24:23 GMT -5
Giants was never going to be a revolution, just the start of new and darker road. It could have been a very solid first step, too, with a slightly revised tracklist:
STANDING ON THE SHOULDERS OF GIANTS
1) Fuckin' in the Bushes
2) Go Let it Out
3) Who Feels Love?
4) Where Did it All Go Wrong? (Demo Version)
5) Let's All Make Believe
6) Gas Panic!
7) Sunday Morning Call
8) Full On (Liam Vox)
9) One Way Road
10) Roll it Over
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Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5