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Post by mossy on Aug 26, 2018 15:53:57 GMT -5
"Of course is the The Scum and it lies and lies, Liam would never raise his hand to a woman" "Ok yeah he does raise his hand and tries to grab her but he's just being funny" next thing will be "yeah he slapped her but very tenderly, she's not bleeding, blown out of proportion" LOL @ the people trying to justify it just because it is Liam. (and I'm referring more to people on twitter et. al, not mainly here) Listen if Debbie had that much of a problem with it she wouldn't be defending him. Women stand by and defend abusive men who are unemployed. Liam is a multi-millionaire with a ticket to travel the world and live a lavish lifestyle. Obviously I don’t know what happened in this video and know nothing about their relationship. Just saying her defending him doesn’t necessarily mean it didn’t happen. Also, calling another woman a witch in the tweet where you defend yourself... Hello!?! Sad times. X
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Post by themanwithnoname on Aug 26, 2018 15:55:15 GMT -5
My theory is they were both drunk, Debbie more than Liam. She said or did something he didn't like, he stormed out. She tried to stop him in the corridor, he pushed her off him by the throat. Debbie, rightly or wrongly, feels guilty for the negative PR that risks undoing so much of their hard work getting Liam's career back on track over one drunken fight so denies it happened. Unfortunately, as big a fan as I am of Liam, that video is pretty damning. You have to be seriously blinkered to deny that. As big of a fan as you are, you apparently just can't wait to have actual facts or proofs to make your opinion. Your theory is nothing but a theory, based on nothing but your impressions and what you think is going on. You have no idea if Debbie feels guilty or not about anything, that's just speculation. What we know is that she directly accused the Sun, and you apparently give no credit at all to her words. Apparently many don't give a fuck about what the supposed "victim" has to say, but they all claim to defend her, that's nonsense to me. In any case, she doesn't need any of you to do what she has to do, and I don't think that ignoring what she says is respecting Debbie, it's quite the opposite. I'm not blinkered by anything, I saw the video, I saw that I can't say anything for sure based on it (and no one here can, sorry). Why is there a rush to claim that Liam is guilty ? Can't you just wait to judge in all fairness ? I genuinely don't get that behaviour. Hmmm. Probably why I said it was a theory. Struggling to see what you can defend from that video tbh. Unless you think Liam doesn't actually make contact - but then why does her head jerk back? Whatever happened, Liam went for her. Not good.
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blkc
Oasis Roadie
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Post by blkc on Aug 26, 2018 16:01:08 GMT -5
That Dan Wootton will do his best to bury Liam. He just needed something on him and now he has it. Fat cnut. You're right. There's absolutely nothing new since the video, all he's doing is milking it. One article to say that Liam played a gig yesterday, one article about "celebrities" giving their opinion as if the voice of a celebrity was more important than yours or mine... Celebrities know has much about this than we do, which is close to nothing. I'm french and just can't believe that tabloids can go that far in your country, and how can anyone think that this is anything close to journalism. We have shitty papers here too, but they are "nice" compared to yours. ^^ But whatever... I'm wondering if that story has been published in any "serious" paper yet ? It think it would say much more about the gravity of the situation if the story was also relayed by actual journalists.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 16:05:30 GMT -5
That Dan Wootton will do his best to bury Liam. He just needed something on him and now he has it. Fat cnut. You're right. There's absolutely nothing new since the video, all he's doing is milking it. One article to say that Liam played a gig yesterday, one article about "celebrities" giving their opinion as if the voice of a celebrity was more important than yours or mine... Celebrities know has much about this than we do, which is close to nothing. I'm french and just can't believe that tabloids can go that far in your country, and how can anyone think that this is anything close to journalism. We have shitty papers here too, but they are "nice" compared to yours. ^^ But whatever... I'm wondering if that story has been published in any "serious" paper yet ? It think it would say much more about the gravity of the situation if the story was also relayed by actual journalists. Liam has slagged this guy off on twitter before. He's got something on him now and will milk it now for all its worth. We now have people who have actually been abused comparing the situation. Blown way out of proportion but that was the point.
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Post by Jgrp on Aug 26, 2018 16:06:06 GMT -5
This Wooten guy hates Liam
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 16:07:53 GMT -5
This Wooten guy hates Liam No shit Sherlock! 😊
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 16:08:04 GMT -5
I'm wondering if that story has been published in any "serious" paper yet ? It think it would say much more about the gravity of the situation if the story was also relayed by actual journalists. I guess it's not of enough interest to the broadsheets' readerships for them to risk legal action over it. The Sun and Mail won't worry too much about having to pay up because they'll already have reaped the rewards for their irresponsible reporting.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 16:13:44 GMT -5
For me it´s clear Liam goes for her throat, even if only for seconds, the way he moves, it´s clearly for that and that´s unforgiving unless both are into some kinky stuff like that.
What i find odd is that Debbie reacts like nothing happened after he stops. Either way, he´s fucked, specially in this day and age where people immediately classify people even if eventually proven wrong, the label never leaves.
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blkc
Oasis Roadie
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Post by blkc on Aug 26, 2018 16:20:58 GMT -5
Hmmm. Probably why I said it was a theory. Struggling to see what you can defend from that video tbh. Unless you think Liam doesn't actually make contact - but then why does her head jerk back? Whatever happened, Liam went for her. Not good. I'm not defending anything on that video, I'm saying that neither you or me know what is really going on for sure. I'm not saying he can't have done shit, just that we can't say for sure. Honestly, you can tell me for sure that he hit her ? How ? That video ain't that clear, sorry. All I'm saying is we ain't know shit, you or me. So I don't get why people have to decide now, while we don't know much about anything. It doesn't seem fair to me, that's all. I will not argue further, I don't think we can say what he's or she's doing. You seem sure of yourself, I will not deny your right to think what you want.^^ But you do completely ignore Debbie's words and give no credit to them, and your position implies that she's lying... If you're right, fine, but if it's not what you think, you'll have said a lot of shit and direspected Debbie.
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Post by themanwithnoname on Aug 26, 2018 16:29:25 GMT -5
Hmmm. Probably why I said it was a theory. Struggling to see what you can defend from that video tbh. Unless you think Liam doesn't actually make contact - but then why does her head jerk back? Whatever happened, Liam went for her. Not good. I'm not defending anything on that video, I'm saying that neither you or me know what is really going on for sure. I'm not saying he can't have done shit, just that we can't say for sure. Honestly, you can tell me for sure that he hit her ? How ? That video ain't that clear, sorry. All I'm saying is we ain't know shit, you or me. So I don't get why people have to decide now, while we don't know much about anything. It doesn't seem fair to me, that's all. I will not argue further, I don't think we can say what he's or she's doing. You seem sure of yourself, I will not deny your right to think what you want.^^ But you do completely ignore Debbie's words and give no credit to them, and your position implies that she's lying... If you're right, fine, but if it's not what you think, you'll have said a lot of shit and direspected Debbie. I'm just saying what it looks like - no, don't know for sure but doesn't look good. Pretty clear he either grabs her throat or goes to. People say things and deny things for all kinds of reasons, not judging anyone.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 16:34:40 GMT -5
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blkc
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Post by blkc on Aug 26, 2018 16:48:50 GMT -5
I'm just saying what it looks like - no, don't know for sure but doesn't look good. Pretty clear he either grabs her throat or goes to. People say things and deny things for all kinds of reasons, not judging anyone. I know people say and deny things for all reasons, but is it really a good thing ? I'm just joking, you're right, it's a forum after all ^^ I should stop reading and just wait and see Maybe I just don't want to believe it so I'm hoping for another explanation, but even if I know Liam is far from being perfect in many levels and is totally able to do shit (and he did some ^^), I just don't see him hurting a woman, at least physically, especially with his mother's history. From all the shits I thought he could do, that one wasn't really expected and seem very unlikely to me. But we'll see...
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Post by crisppacket on Aug 26, 2018 16:49:15 GMT -5
Ngl this whole saga makes me feel sick, for everyone involved. Fuck the scum for using domestic violence as a means for garnering clicks. Feel especially bad for his kids having to read shit like this.
Career wise he’s not fucked, imo anyway. Unless something else other than a shaky low quality 10 second video with no context or audio is released. When the next tour is announced people will go and albums will be bought, that’s inevitable. Chris Brown beat the shit out of Rihanna and he still has a large fan base and still does well unfortunately. This’ll be forgotten, rightly or wrongly.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 16:49:49 GMT -5
To provide some perspective on why I don't put much stock in the "Debbie says it's OK so it's OK" argument. I'm not saying Liam is any of the things I'll talk about below but I hesitate to take Debbie's public words at face value.
1. I worked in a Jobcentre for about 5 years and for a couple of those I was a Personal Adviser. Pretty regularly I'd get women on my caseload who'd appear from somewhere else in the country and use an address in Cambridge that was kept secret even from me. They were fleeing domestic violence and, being strong enough to walk away, they would usually tell me something of the story. All horrible, and the consistent part running through all the stories was that none of them had run the first time it got bad. They stayed and stayed until they couldn't take any more. The second, and the most upsetting part, was that probably 75% of them wouldn't show up for an appointment at some point. I'd look on the system and see they'd moved back where they came from, presumably to the abuser. Not a thing you or anybody else can do about it. The abusers have a power over them that's extremely difficult to break.
2. I grew up in a house that, in hindsight, was abusive. It was too infrequent for any of us to realise at the time. My stepdad attacked me once and it just happened that my dad was just arriving to pick me and my sister up. Bad move. He attacked me again a few years later, but by then I was older and it wasn't me whose arse ended up on the floor. Guess who had to leave the house? Anyway, maybe 12 years later my mum finally did kick him out when he went for one of my sisters who's much younger than me. Mum didn't tell me he was physically violent on that occasion until recently, and my family is now stuck with the aftermath. Her relationship with my sister (not the one he attacked, although he once did threaten her but backed down when I opened the door) has broken down because her view is that nothing mum can do can let her have her teenage years back. I struggle with being a long way from mum and the younger two girls, because I want to protect them, and knowing what I know now I wouldn't hesitate to render him incapable of hurting them ever again. Mum worries that one day I'll do something stupid and throw away my life and career in regenge. Anyway, where I'm going with this is that mum put up with this kind of behaviour for 15 years before kicking him out because he'd managed to convince her that he was right, and she feared life alone with 4 kids. She nearly lost both of her first set of children over it. Now she feels both guilty for what we were put through, and for being a fucking idiot.
So what I'm getting at here is that the abused often has a level of tolerance for the abuser that's far beyond what it should be. I'm not saying Liam is abusive, we know nothing more than that he might have snapped in a pretty minor way, but I don't think Debbie's insistence that everything is fine is necessarily what it seems. Let's hope it really is a one-off and Liam grows up.
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Post by mossy on Aug 26, 2018 16:55:22 GMT -5
To provide some perspective on why I don't put much stock in the "Debbie says it's OK so it's OK" argument. I'm not saying Liam is any of the things I'll talk about below but I hesitate to take Debbie's public words at face value. 1. I worked in a Jobcentre for about 5 years and for a couple of those I was a Personal Adviser. Pretty regularly I'd get women on my caseload who'd appear from somewhere else in the country and use an address in Cambridge that was kept secret even from me. They were fleeing domestic violence and, being strong enough to walk away, they would usually tell me something of the story. All horrible, and the consistent part running through all the stories was that none of them had run the first time it got bad. They stayed and stayed until they couldn't take any more. The second, and the most upsetting part, was that probably 75% of them wouldn't show up for an appointment at some point. I'd look on the system and see they'd moved back where they came from, presumably to the abuser. Not a thing you or anybody else can do about it. The abusers have a power over them that's extremely difficult to break. 2. I grew up in a house that, in hindsight, was abusive. It was too infrequent for any of us to realise at the time. My stepdad attacked me once and it just happened that my dad was just arriving to pick me and my sister up. Bad move. He attacked me again a few years later, but by then I was older and it wasn't me whose arse ended up on the floor. Guess who had to leave the house? Anyway, maybe 12 years later my mum finally did kick him out when he went for one of my sisters who's much younger than me. Mum didn't tell me he was physically violent on that occasion until recently, and my family is now stuck with the aftermath. Her relationship with my sister (not the one he attacked, although he once did threaten her but backed down when I opened the door) has broken down because her view is that nothing mum can do can let her have her teenage years back. I struggle with being a long way from mum and the younger two girls, because I want to protect them, and knowing what I know now I wouldn't hesitate to render him incapable of hurting them ever again. Mum worries that one day I'll do something stupid and throw away my life and career in regenge. Anyway, where I'm going with this is that mum put up with this kind of behaviour for 15 years before kicking him out. She nearly lost both of her first set of children over it. Now she feels both guilty for what we were put through, and for being a fucking idiot. So what I'm getting at here is that the abused often has a level of tolerance for the abuser that's far beyond what it should be. I'm not saying Liam is abusive, we know nothing more than that he might have snapped in a pretty minor way, but I don't think Debbie's insistence that everything is fine is necessarily what it seems. Let's hope it really is a one-off and Liam grows up. Heavy stuff, hope your family works everything out Lad. X
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 17:05:48 GMT -5
Heavy stuff, hope your family works everything out Lad. X Appreciate it, brother. tbh I think as domestic abuse stories go that's pretty tame based on a lot of what I heard at the Jobcentre. Anyway, you can't really do anything except move on as best you can and make sure that the perpetrator is aware that if ever sticks his hand round the throat of one of the girls again he will be losing the use of said hand
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 17:10:33 GMT -5
To provide some perspective on why I don't put much stock in the "Debbie says it's OK so it's OK" argument. I'm not saying Liam is any of the things I'll talk about below but I hesitate to take Debbie's public words at face value. 1. I worked in a Jobcentre for about 5 years and for a couple of those I was a Personal Adviser. Pretty regularly I'd get women on my caseload who'd appear from somewhere else in the country and use an address in Cambridge that was kept secret even from me. They were fleeing domestic violence and, being strong enough to walk away, they would usually tell me something of the story. All horrible, and the consistent part running through all the stories was that none of them had run the first time it got bad. They stayed and stayed until they couldn't take any more. The second, and the most upsetting part, was that probably 75% of them wouldn't show up for an appointment at some point. I'd look on the system and see they'd moved back where they came from, presumably to the abuser. Not a thing you or anybody else can do about it. The abusers have a power over them that's extremely difficult to break. 2. I grew up in a house that, in hindsight, was abusive. It was too infrequent for any of us to realise at the time. My stepdad attacked me once and it just happened that my dad was just arriving to pick me and my sister up. Bad move. He attacked me again a few years later, but by then I was older and it wasn't me whose arse ended up on the floor. Guess who had to leave the house? Anyway, maybe 12 years later my mum finally did kick him out when he went for one of my sisters who's much younger than me. Mum didn't tell me he was physically violent on that occasion until recently, and my family is now stuck with the aftermath. Her relationship with my sister (not the one he attacked, although he once did threaten her but backed down when I opened the door) has broken down because her view is that nothing mum can do can let her have her teenage years back. I struggle with being a long way from mum and the younger two girls, because I want to protect them, and knowing what I know now I wouldn't hesitate to render him incapable of hurting them ever again. Mum worries that one day I'll do something stupid and throw away my life and career in regenge. Anyway, where I'm going with this is that mum put up with this kind of behaviour for 15 years before kicking him out because he'd managed to convince her that he was right, and she feared life alone with 4 kids. She nearly lost both of her first set of children over it. Now she feels both guilty for what we were put through, and for being a fucking idiot. So what I'm getting at here is that the abused often has a level of tolerance for the abuser that's far beyond what it should be. I'm not saying Liam is abusive, we know nothing more than that he might have snapped in a pretty minor way, but I don't think Debbie's insistence that everything is fine is necessarily what it seems. Let's hope it really is a one-off and Liam grows up. You are spot on. My dad once shoved my mom and grabbed a piece of furniture and was going to throw it at her, but i put myself between them and he did not throw it. My mom forgave him for some reason i do not understand, i did not forgive him for years (this happened when i was 16, i´m 23 now) but now i somewhat manage to not take that so much at heart and our relationship is repaired, because deep down i know he loves me and does everything for me. He never came close to doing it again and he changed a lot for the better since then, but that´s still there in his past. And if it´s proven that Liam abused her, even if only because of a sudden snap, he will have to live with that until the end, specially in today´s society. How much that will affect the rest of his solo career, that remains to be seen.
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Post by janedoe on Aug 26, 2018 17:22:16 GMT -5
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Post by mancraider on Aug 26, 2018 18:03:49 GMT -5
Agree with much of what's been written above and respect to those who have personal experience to draw upon, I've also lived through similar experiences both in childhood and via inlaws after I was married. The one part I struggle with though is about not believing a woman if she says she hasn't been abused. It's fair enough if there is cast iron proof otherwise and I'm well aware some victims of abuse protect their abuser for all sorts of reasons but if you are going to automatically assume a statement of denial from a supposed victim is false then you are basically calling that person a liar, which you may justify to yourself if you are later proved correct but what if you are wrong? What if they are telling the truth? There may ultimately be no hard evidence to prove otherwise and then your left with the shitty situation of someone being labelled an abuser and another a victim who was too weak to stand up to them when they may be neither. A case of mud sticks and follows you for the rest of your life.
So while you need to be aware of the possibility I don't think it is wrong to take Debbies denial at face value unless/until further evidence comes to light. The video they have released is ambiguous to say the least. Giving her the respect to listen to what she has to say on the matter shouldn't be seen as a cop out.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 18:12:57 GMT -5
She's probably a few grand richer than she was yesterday.
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Post by headshrinker84 on Aug 26, 2018 18:51:22 GMT -5
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Post by freddy838 on Aug 26, 2018 21:35:21 GMT -5
I'm not defending anything on that video, I'm saying that neither you or me know what is really going on for sure. I'm not saying he can't have done shit, just that we can't say for sure. Honestly, you can tell me for sure that he hit her ? How ? That video ain't that clear, sorry. All I'm saying is we ain't know shit, you or me. So I don't get why people have to decide now, while we don't know much about anything. It doesn't seem fair to me, that's all. I will not argue further, I don't think we can say what he's or she's doing. You seem sure of yourself, I will not deny your right to think what you want.^^ But you do completely ignore Debbie's words and give no credit to them, and your position implies that she's lying... If you're right, fine, but if it's not what you think, you'll have said a lot of shit and direspected Debbie. I'm just saying what it looks like - no, don't know for sure but doesn't look good. Pretty clear he either grabs her throat or goes to. People say things and deny things for all kinds of reasons, not judging anyone. He seems to misjudge the size of her neck by quite a way though. Have to say the Sun is the gutter press, Liam can be violent when drunk and a dick sometimes, but has no known history of violence towards women, is the son of a wifebeater so that could go either way, the CCTV is shit, the journalist has long running beef with him, the Sun didn't feel confident enough to release it before his big gig in Manchester as I'm sure any loss of earnings would have been greater then if Liam does sue, they've both denied it.
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Post by janedoe on Aug 26, 2018 21:58:27 GMT -5
A nightclub where the owners sell video footage to the Sun. Everyone is making money
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Post by janedoe on Aug 26, 2018 22:14:33 GMT -5
This just came out.. Liam Gallagher's girlfriend slams claims he attacked her as she insists they were just 'messing around' EXCLUSIVE: Debbie Gwyther responded said she feels like people are on a "witch hunt" to dirty Liam's name SHARE COMMENTS ByHalina Watts 23:21, 25 AUG 2018 CELEBS Liam Gallagher's girlfriend slams attack claims and insists they were 'messing' Liam Gallagher’s girlfriend Debbie Gwyther has rubbished claims the singer attacked her. She leapt to the former Oasis rocker’s defence yesterday and insisted: “We were drunkenly messing around and it’s been made into something it wasn’t. "It feels like they’re on a witch hunt to dirty Liams name.” The star also denied a bust-up with Debbie, 36. Last night footage said to be taken at Chiltern Firehouse restaurant reportedly showed Liam “pushing” girlfriend Debbie, who apparently stumbles into a corridor and then reportedly attempts to block his path. He strides past Debbie and turns to confront her, appearing to grab her throat, causing her head to rock backwards. But she insisted there is no problem with their four-year romance. Debbie said: “Our relationship is stronger than ever. Liam’s never laid a hand on me. It is completely ridiculous.” what a strange relationship they have i hope she's not justifing abuse She's got a point, it is indeed lazy and sexist journalism.
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Post by thomuk2006 on Aug 27, 2018 0:54:25 GMT -5
"We have obscured her eyes in our images to conceal her distress at the moment of the attack."
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