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Post by guigsysEstring on Mar 10, 2018 19:16:14 GMT -5
It's astonishing what Xi Jinping has done for China. He's managed to have his cake and eat it too by building a global economic power all while continuing to quash all dissent and install himself as Emperor-for-life. Really challenges the traditional capitalist view that a liberal society is necessary for innovation. Makes the people who thought back in the 90's that if the US let China integrate into the world order, they would eventually democratize, look like idiots, quite frankly. Singapore's Lee Kuan Yew summed it up best when he said that China will never democratize, nor become an honorary member of the West, and instead they will succeed on their own terms. I just didn't think it would happen so soon. I have been following the Korean situation closely. Does Trump realize what a fucking moron he is to agree meet with Kim Jong-Un? Does he realize that he's already giving them a huge concession by allowing the dictator of a renegade state, an international outcast, to be seen eye-to-eye with the President of the United States? The President of the United States. How many leaders of brutal dictatorships have the privilege of meeting the President of the United States in person? Someone who knew what he was doing would build up to this by asking for something from the North Koreans first before even agreeing to meet, if he were even to agree. Yet Trump was suckered into this because of his massive ego that fancies himself as a great negotiator. Kim keeps playing Trump for a fool. It'd be funny if it weren't so sad. Despite the gravity of the Korean crisis, I can't help but feel that it's one massive distraction. Because that't how China treats it. While the US is preoccupied with so many other things, China wins over all those countries that no American has ever heard of as it expands its One Belt, One Road project. I once read an article that suggested that, were war to break out on the Korean peninsula, the US should be prepared for Russia or China to make a bold move in the Ukraine or the South China Sea respectively while the US has nuclear war on its hands. But I think the author made a glaring omission. China would no doubt move to invade Taiwan if it knew the US was incapacitated. Think about it - Taiwan is a huge embarrassment to China that shows its inability to keep its country united. Taiwan needs to be prepared for war to break out at any time, because, mark my words, there will be war in the Taiwan Strait within the next 5 years. Which is a terrible thing for me, because I am Taiwanese-American and have many relatives and friends who live there. Luckily, Trump has, for the most part, reaffirmed the US's commitment to Taiwan, but only a few months ago, his incompetent State Department removed the Taiwanese flag from the State Department's website page on Taiwan. Wtf? (Btw, I could talk all day about Taiwanese politics if you are interested ) I think as per Lee Kuan Yew's stated views China was always going to succeed on it's leader's own terms because they have played the capitalist game as a nation, and in doing so have retained much of the wealth accumulated for sovereign investment with political leverage such as buying bonds for other nations, building a low cost manufacturing base that serves corporations from around the world and purchasing selected companies for the intellectual properties across a range of sectors. All of this has been done for the majority without private investors wanting returns that can derail long term planning, and has put China firmly into a position whereby through economic and military power she can dominate Asia as the USA loses influence. The time frame is seemingly advancing sooner than expected due to global circumstances of which some can be blamed on Trump and the rest on the pace of global change accelerating across key economical, political and social areas. Russia under Putin whilst independent of Western demands is firstly not the economic powerhouse that China is, and secondly whilst happy to lose the US presence in South Korea is more concerned with it's European borders and any potential moves by NATO. That said the Russians will almost certainly openly or tacitly support most Chinese actions in Asia as the two countries have shown a greater desire for economic and political co-operation in recent times, which again suits China in terms of challenging US hegemony both in Asia and into other regions such as Africa, Eastern Europe via Russia possibly and in South America. Donald Trump with his actions has certainly aided the Chinese ambitions and as outlined in the previous article has also given room for flexibility for China when dealing with the UNSC regarding North Korea, which if played correctly will undermine the US on the Korean peninsula as part of broader regional ambitions. The meeting with Kim is certainly suited to Chinese and also Russian ambitions of further undermining US influence in the region by giving some legitimacy to the NK regime, which as previously mentioned then raises questions at to whether or not the US led sanctions are still valid. I agree with your assessment on Taiwan in regards to a Chinese invasion in the event of war on the Korean peninsula, although I would suggest a dual play for both this and control of the South China Sea as without US support and with Russia for the most part supporting Chinese ambitions who else could confront a fully mobilised PLA? Your assessment that China at some point regardless of the Korean situation will want to remove the embarrassment to them that is Taiwan I also sadly have to agree with, and I believe that at the moment Xi Jinping is playing a waiting game to find a moment when the US has either withdrawn in part at least from the region or is preoccupied with other issues to the point an armed response is not feasible for the US Military. The latter not becoming involved would ensure Chinese victory as there is no other Asian power with the will and certainly not the military capability to take on China, particularly as most Asian countries will be increasingly reliant on China for their own economies. The result I fear for the people of Taiwan would be similar to that of Tibet with much lip service by the Western powers (ironic from the British given their role in Tibet in 1904 which indirectly led to Chinese control as part of the "Great Game" between the British and Russian Empires in Central and Southern Asia) but with no actions of consequence. Definitely happy to discuss Asian/Taiwanese politics, and although like yourself pessimistic about Chinese actions over Taiwan would hope for a better resolution for the sake of the people including your family and friends I hope some of what I have written above at least makes sense!
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Mar 10, 2018 20:58:27 GMT -5
I’ll be honest: I’m skeptical that this meeting will even happen. And even if it does happen, I don’t think NK will honor any promises - we’ve been here before with them over the last 25 years.
However, if by some miracle progress is made, it could be equated to Nixon’s opening with China.
Either way, there’s no real loss to giving this a try. Remember, Obama campaigned on this very strategy back in 2007!
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Post by The-Ghost-Dancer on Mar 11, 2018 10:40:48 GMT -5
The thing that puzzles most is Beady’s Here Now you say your a brit yeah and bang on about being a brit I can safely say about 98% of The uk cant fuckin stand trump and think hes nowt but a c_unt so if your a true brit you would also think like the rest of us but then again your a yank so,,,,,,,
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Post by mystoryisgory on Mar 12, 2018 0:19:03 GMT -5
It's astonishing what Xi Jinping has done for China. He's managed to have his cake and eat it too by building a global economic power all while continuing to quash all dissent and install himself as Emperor-for-life. Really challenges the traditional capitalist view that a liberal society is necessary for innovation. Makes the people who thought back in the 90's that if the US let China integrate into the world order, they would eventually democratize, look like idiots, quite frankly. Singapore's Lee Kuan Yew summed it up best when he said that China will never democratize, nor become an honorary member of the West, and instead they will succeed on their own terms. I just didn't think it would happen so soon. I have been following the Korean situation closely. Does Trump realize what a fucking moron he is to agree meet with Kim Jong-Un? Does he realize that he's already giving them a huge concession by allowing the dictator of a renegade state, an international outcast, to be seen eye-to-eye with the President of the United States? The President of the United States. How many leaders of brutal dictatorships have the privilege of meeting the President of the United States in person? Someone who knew what he was doing would build up to this by asking for something from the North Koreans first before even agreeing to meet, if he were even to agree. Yet Trump was suckered into this because of his massive ego that fancies himself as a great negotiator. Kim keeps playing Trump for a fool. It'd be funny if it weren't so sad. Despite the gravity of the Korean crisis, I can't help but feel that it's one massive distraction. Because that't how China treats it. While the US is preoccupied with so many other things, China wins over all those countries that no American has ever heard of as it expands its One Belt, One Road project. I once read an article that suggested that, were war to break out on the Korean peninsula, the US should be prepared for Russia or China to make a bold move in the Ukraine or the South China Sea respectively while the US has nuclear war on its hands. But I think the author made a glaring omission. China would no doubt move to invade Taiwan if it knew the US was incapacitated. Think about it - Taiwan is a huge embarrassment to China that shows its inability to keep its country united. Taiwan needs to be prepared for war to break out at any time, because, mark my words, there will be war in the Taiwan Strait within the next 5 years. Which is a terrible thing for me, because I am Taiwanese-American and have many relatives and friends who live there. Luckily, Trump has, for the most part, reaffirmed the US's commitment to Taiwan, but only a few months ago, his incompetent State Department removed the Taiwanese flag from the State Department's website page on Taiwan. Wtf? (Btw, I could talk all day about Taiwanese politics if you are interested ) I think as per Lee Kuan Yew's stated views China was always going to succeed on it's leader's own terms because they have played the capitalist game as a nation, and in doing so have retained much of the wealth accumulated for sovereign investment with political leverage such as buying bonds for other nations, building a low cost manufacturing base that serves corporations from around the world and purchasing selected companies for the intellectual properties across a range of sectors. All of this has been done for the majority without private investors wanting returns that can derail long term planning, and has put China firmly into a position whereby through economic and military power she can dominate Asia as the USA loses influence. The time frame is seemingly advancing sooner than expected due to global circumstances of which some can be blamed on Trump and the rest on the pace of global change accelerating across key economical, political and social areas. Russia under Putin whilst independent of Western demands is firstly not the economic powerhouse that China is, and secondly whilst happy to lose the US presence in South Korea is more concerned with it's European borders and any potential moves by NATO. That said the Russians will almost certainly openly or tacitly support most Chinese actions in Asia as the two countries have shown a greater desire for economic and political co-operation in recent times, which again suits China in terms of challenging US hegemony both in Asia and into other regions such as Africa, Eastern Europe via Russia possibly and in South America. Donald Trump with his actions has certainly aided the Chinese ambitions and as outlined in the previous article has also given room for flexibility for China when dealing with the UNSC regarding North Korea, which if played correctly will undermine the US on the Korean peninsula as part of broader regional ambitions. The meeting with Kim is certainly suited to Chinese and also Russian ambitions of further undermining US influence in the region by giving some legitimacy to the NK regime, which as previously mentioned then raises questions at to whether or not the US led sanctions are still valid. I agree with your assessment on Taiwan in regards to a Chinese invasion in the event of war on the Korean peninsula, although I would suggest a dual play for both this and control of the South China Sea as without US support and with Russia for the most part supporting Chinese ambitions who else could confront a fully mobilised PLA? Your assessment that China at some point regardless of the Korean situation will want to remove the embarrassment to them that is Taiwan I also sadly have to agree with, and I believe that at the moment Xi Jinping is playing a waiting game to find a moment when the US has either withdrawn in part at least from the region or is preoccupied with other issues to the point an armed response is not feasible for the US Military. The latter not becoming involved would ensure Chinese victory as there is no other Asian power with the will and certainly not the military capability to take on China, particularly as most Asian countries will be increasingly reliant on China for their own economies. The result I fear for the people of Taiwan would be similar to that of Tibet with much lip service by the Western powers (ironic from the British given their role in Tibet in 1904 which indirectly led to Chinese control as part of the "Great Game" between the British and Russian Empires in Central and Southern Asia) but with no actions of consequence. Definitely happy to discuss Asian/Taiwanese politics, and although like yourself pessimistic about Chinese actions over Taiwan would hope for a better resolution for the sake of the people including your family and friends I hope some of what I have written above at least makes sense! Yeah, Russia isn't the global hegemon that it used to be. But I have read that China and Russia do have an interest in North Korea normalizing relations with the rest of the world. Apparently Russian and Chinese companies have ambitions to build a long pipeline from oil reserves in Russia to South Korea across the Korean peninsula. Such a deal could only happen once sanctions are lifted and the North opens itself up. And if the US deserts Taiwan for whatever fucked-up reason, Taiwan will be on its own. I know that former Taiwanese president Chen Shui-Bian has been lobbying the Japanese government to pass its equivalent of the US's Taiwan Relations Act, but I don't know how much good that will do, given that Japan really doesn't have much of a functioning military. One thing that is important to know about Taiwan is that its people are not a united front. The unfortunate fact about democracies is that even the idiots are represented. The two major parties of Taiwan are the Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) (which currently controls the Legislative Yuan and the Presidency with Tsai Ing-Wen), who support an independent Taiwan and a distinct Taiwanese identity. And then there's the Kuomintang (KMT), aka the Chinese Nationalists who came over to Taiwan after losing China to the Communists and brutally oppressed Taiwan for decades while pushing their delusional fantasy of taking back China. They don't murder anyone anymore (that we know of) since Taiwan democratized in the late 80's, but they've engaged in a policy of appeasement toward China that recalls Neville Chamberlain, but worse. They've pushed for "peaceful reunification", made Taiwan economically dependent on China, cut military spending when the risk of war is always imminent, insisted that the Taiwanese people think of themselves as only Chinese, and laid the groundwork for Taiwan to be economically re-absorbed back into the Chinese empire. It would be fair to call them traitors to their country. Except they think their country is China, and in that case, they're very loyal toadies indeed. If Taiwan is eventually invaded and conquered by China, we'll know who to blame. The other thing that worries me is that the Chinese government has been waging an underhanded information war against Taiwan aimed at undermining their confidence. Young people of Taiwan have been often labeled as the "caomeizu" (Mandarin for "strawberry generation"), in that they look pretty but are easily bruised. Basically meaning that they lack the will to fight. I think this stereotype is mostly false and an invention of the Chinese government. The young people of Taiwan are seeing through the KMT's lies that they are Chinese and rebuked them when they ushered in the DPP like never before in their election two years ago. But I can't help but feel that the "caomeizu" characterization is not completely false. A lot of my friends from Taiwan tell me that few people ever think that war is on the horizon, which it definitely is, and they don't necessarily support full Taiwanese independence. That may just change when China invades, though, Nothing like your homeland being invaded to mobilize the people to fight. But these doubts may just be the Xi Jinping and his minions playing with my emotions. I have also read that Taiwan's military is far more capable than most people give it credit for, though it's hard to confirm its actual strength because of all the misinformation spread by China. The second or third generation weapons that they buy from the US are better than a lot of what China has, though China is very quickly catching up. Still, an amphibious assault would be extremely costly for China, both in terms of resources and politically in the international condemnation that would hopefully follow. One thing that does give me a bit of solace in all of this is that a big reason that China doesn't invade tomorrow is because it hopes to take advantage of Taiwan's economy. Global companies like Acer, Asus, Taiwan Semiconductor, and Foxconn are all based in Taiwan, and an invasion would wreck their profitability and probably have a negative effect on global markets. That wouldn't be good for China given how much trade occurs between them and Taiwan. The only thing that I can be certain about is that war is inevitable. The question is just when. If there's one thing that you have to know about the Chinese, it's that they're very clever, and above all, patient. They've never been prone to the impulsiveness that plagues the West. They're very calculating and never do something unless they're absolutely sure that it will pay off. The same can be said about the Taiwanese people too, though. After all, we Taiwanese do share a common heritage with the Chinese, even if we've taken very different paths for the past century.
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Post by As You Built The Moon on Mar 13, 2018 19:03:06 GMT -5
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Post by spaneli on Mar 14, 2018 12:06:18 GMT -5
Most of his Executive orders have failed, health care is still a mess, borders aren't secure, allies don't trust us, his cabinet is a wreck, with strong majorities in both the House and Senate, he's only managed to pass one major piece of legislation....a corporate tax cut and his only other claim to "fame" is getting his Supreme Court nominee approved when his party is in control of the Senate. Also, crediting Trump with ISIS is like crediting Reagan with the fall of the Soviet Union. Trump took credit for the fall of Mosul, but Mosul had been in a state of nearly falling for months prior (actually during the Obama administration). But don't take my word, read politifact: www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/oct/26/donald-trump/trump-takes-full-credit-gains-against-isis/It's amazing how bogus claims that people don't take more than two seconds to question can be blown up in a 2 second Google search. Also, while we're on his foreign policy chops, he decided to take a meeting with North Korea, but had to walk it back because he didn't realize prior American foreign policy stances against them. That's not withstanding the multiple moral implications of his presidency. To say, the difference between him and Clinton is that he admits his relationships with women is a complete fabrication and lie. His own Press Secretary said EVERY one of those women who have accused him of harassment and rape were liars. Let's also not forget that he's borderline racist, he's a bigot, he's sexist, and homophobic. Seriously. If you support him, then you support someone being racist, being a bigot, being sexist, being homophobic. That's what YOU support. You can't divorce the two, the only way you can is that you're either those things or you don't care (which says a lot about people as human beings). Honestly, the only thing really keeping Trump afloat is the economy (one that he inherited), and even that's starting to decline. "One model that forecasts the US economy's performance saw another big downward revision on Wednesday. The Atlanta Federal Reserve's GDPNow model projects that gross domestic product will increase at a 1.8% annualized rate in the first quarter. That's down from last week's 2.5% estimate, and well below the 5.4% print from the beginning of February. A survey of economists conducted by Bloomberg shows shows Wall Street is anticipating 2% growth. The model was revised lower after Tuesday's CPI report and Wednesday's advanced retail sales reading. CPI was in line, up 2.2% year-over-year, while retail sales slid 0.1% month-over-month. "After yesterday's Consumer Price Index release from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics and this morning's retail sales report from the U.S. Census Bureau, the nowcast of first-quarter real personal consumption expenditures growth fell from 2.2 percent to 1.4 percent," The Atlanta Fed said. Wednesday's downward revision pushes the Atlanta Fed's estimate for first quarter GDP well below the 3% target that President Donald Trump has touted for his administration. The US economy grew at a roughly 2% annual rate during former President Barack Obama's tenure. First quarter GDP will be released on April 27." www.businessinsider.com/atlanta-fed-prediction-for-us-economy-looking-worse-and-worse-2018-3
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Post by guigsysEstring on Mar 14, 2018 12:09:04 GMT -5
Let's also not forget that he's borderline racist Given his own actions and that of his family in past decades which he doesn't seem to have any issue with, I'd say there is no 'borderline' about it. Aside from that a great post
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Post by guigsysEstring on Mar 14, 2018 12:11:24 GMT -5
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Post by playthehitsgetoff on Mar 14, 2018 15:38:45 GMT -5
He is an affront to all women imho..
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Mar 15, 2018 21:23:03 GMT -5
I’m no Trump fan. But I do like a strong economy. And I do like a strong military. So excuse me enjoying the low unemployment and the continual defeats of ISIS.
We all know that I’m a Neo-con....
And in fairness, I’m a centrist when it comes to social policies.
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Post by playthehitsgetoff on Mar 16, 2018 2:02:15 GMT -5
I’m no Trump fan. But I do like a strong economy. And I do like a strong military. So excuse me enjoying the low unemployment and the continual defeats of ISIS. We all know that I’m a Neo-con.... And in fairness, I’m a centrist when it comes to social policies. i agree the US economy is doing well and he has turned it round. He just isnt popular here in the UK..certainly with the women population.
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Post by thomaslivesforever on Mar 16, 2018 5:21:33 GMT -5
I’m no Trump fan. But I do like a strong economy. And I do like a strong military. So excuse me enjoying the low unemployment and the continual defeats of ISIS. We all know that I’m a Neo-con.... And in fairness, I’m a centrist when it comes to social policies. i agree the US economy is doing well and he has turned it round. He just isnt popular here in the UK..certainly with the women population. I think the shoots of growth were in place before Trump came along. That's not surprising when recovering from global financial disaster. He isn't popular with women or men here, the women have a more than enough reason to be appalled by him.
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Post by theyknowwhatimean on Mar 16, 2018 6:40:53 GMT -5
I’m no Trump fan. But I do like a strong economy. And I do like a strong military. So excuse me enjoying the low unemployment and the continual defeats of ISIS. We all know that I’m a Neo-con.... And in fairness, I’m a centrist when it comes to social policies. Why?
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Post by jxing on Mar 16, 2018 7:59:42 GMT -5
i agree the US economy is doing well and he has turned it round. He just isnt popular here in the UK..certainly with the women population. I think the shoots of growth were in place before Trump came along. That's not surprising when recovering from global financial disaster. He isn't popular with women or men here, the women have a more than enough reason to be appalled by him. I'm not sure where you're from but I'm a woman and I'm not appalled by him at all..I'm actually appalled by Hillary and the democrats continual sanctimonious judgement of those that voted for Trump. it's absolute bullshit to label everyone that voted for Trump as a racist horrible human being... and for that reason alone most people like myself will most definitely vote Trump and Republican in all elections. Btw I was a Democrat before this election as were my parents, grandparents, and great grandparents.. And I'm from Louisiana.
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Post by Megaman on Mar 16, 2018 11:22:28 GMT -5
I’m no Trump fan. But I do like a strong economy. And I do like a strong military. So excuse me enjoying the low unemployment and the continual defeats of ISIS. We all know that I’m a Neo-con.... And in fairness, I’m a centrist when it comes to social policies. Why? Stop consuming soy milk and you might understand.
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Post by jxing on Mar 16, 2018 11:36:45 GMT -5
He isn't popular with women or men here, the women have a more than enough reason to be appalled by him. Well remember, and this is an appalling figure, 53% of white women voted for him. Reliably and thankfully, 94% of black women voted for Hillary. I'm white ftr. Eta, and I agree with the first part of your post. He turned nothing around. It was already happening. As a woman, I thinks it's appalling that any % of women would vote for Hillary. She is definitely not a respectable female leader. And actually,i don't believe that any one can say that with 100% certainly that Trumps successes are his own or Obama's. maybe Obama's we're a direct result of Bush and so on. Yes, there are certain policies that can be directly related to a presidency but those policies can also be improved or damaged by the next one. For instance, I voted for Obama and I personally witnessed the destruction that his administration and policies did on health care, farmers, small business owners, factory workers, fishermen. His regulations decimated communities and families. For instance (I'm simplifying), his tax regulations made it financially impossible for kids to inherit their parents/family farm/land.. the inheritance tax alone was astronomical as well as the health care mandate. I can say that the economy in Louisiana seafood and farmers are definitely improving and i believe that it definitely related to Trump deregulations of Obama environmental policies. But, I also believe that it's way too early to determine 100% if that improvement will continue or if Trump will impose something new that will drastically reduce those improvements. Yes, there were some great positives that others may have benefited from as a result of Obama's presidency. Unfortunately, I wasn't one of those. Medical care, tax, and farming/seafood are my major concerns because they directly impact me. While Obama care may have helped others, it actually severely hurt me and those with my illnesses. For instance, I receive 3rd party assistance from patient non-profit organizations because many of my medications are not covered by Medicare or Medicaid. Well, Obamacare policies have destroyed those patience assistance programs.. www.google.com/amp/amp.dailycaller.com/2017/11/12/how-a-pickup-basketball-game-landed-this-man-at-odds-with-the-obama-admin/?espv=1Look, no one is perfect in either party. I've always voted for who's policies were the best for me at that time.. Obama was that just as Trump was. Every voter has their own reasons, and that doesn't mean that every republican is a racist horrible human being or that every democrat is a liberal free-loader. Every president has their own achievements and failures. And I know I've rambled and gone on a rant, but can we just stop accusing voters of being racist, homophobic and everything else because there are many reasons that causes one to vote a particular way, whether you agree or disagree. And yes, I acknowledge that their are disgusting people on both sides but you can't lump them all together.
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Post by Binary Sunset on Mar 16, 2018 12:51:36 GMT -5
I think the shoots of growth were in place before Trump came along. That's not surprising when recovering from global financial disaster. He isn't popular with women or men here, the women have a more than enough reason to be appalled by him. I'm not sure where you're from but I'm a woman and I'm not appalled by him at all..I'm actually appalled by Hillary and the democrats continual sanctimonious judgement of those that voted for Trump. it's absolute bullshit to label everyone that voted for Trump as a racist horrible human being... and for that reason alone most people like myself will most definitely vote Trump and Republican in all elections. Btw I was a Democrat before this election as were my parents, grandparents, and great grandparents.. And I'm from Louisiana. They might not all be racist, but they all had no problems with voting a lying racist bigot into the most powerful office on the planet. Hmmm.....
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Post by jxing on Mar 16, 2018 12:56:46 GMT -5
I'm not sure where you're from but I'm a woman and I'm not appalled by him at all..I'm actually appalled by Hillary and the democrats continual sanctimonious judgement of those that voted for Trump. it's absolute bullshit to label everyone that voted for Trump as a racist horrible human being... and for that reason alone most people like myself will most definitely vote Trump and Republican in all elections. Btw I was a Democrat before this election as were my parents, grandparents, and great grandparents.. And I'm from Louisiana. They might not all be racist, but they all had no problems with voting a lying racist bigot into the most powerful office on the planet. Hmmm..... And some could say the same for Hillary.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Mar 16, 2018 13:10:24 GMT -5
I'm not sure where you're from but I'm a woman and I'm not appalled by him at all..I'm actually appalled by Hillary and the democrats continual sanctimonious judgement of those that voted for Trump. it's absolute bullshit to label everyone that voted for Trump as a racist horrible human being... and for that reason alone most people like myself will most definitely vote Trump and Republican in all elections. Btw I was a Democrat before this election as were my parents, grandparents, and great grandparents.. And I'm from Louisiana. They might not all be racist, but they all had no problems with voting a lying racist bigot into the most powerful office on the planet. Hmmm..... en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1972
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Post by spaneli on Mar 20, 2018 21:29:54 GMT -5
I think the shoots of growth were in place before Trump came along. That's not surprising when recovering from global financial disaster. He isn't popular with women or men here, the women have a more than enough reason to be appalled by him. I'm not sure where you're from but I'm a woman and I'm not appalled by him at all..I'm actually appalled by Hillary and the democrats continual sanctimonious judgement of those that voted for Trump. it's absolute bullshit to label everyone that voted for Trump as a racist horrible human being... and for that reason alone most people like myself will most definitely vote Trump and Republican in all elections. Btw I was a Democrat before this election as were my parents, grandparents, and great grandparents.. And I'm from Louisiana. I mean, if you didn't like Hillary, fair enough. A ton of people didn't. But not liking one doesn't lead to the support of another. That's nonsensical. Especially when the other is so morally flawed. Like personally, in this period, that doesn't seem to be a good enough reason (and if it's your reason then fair enough, but expect to be roundly criticized) Like I didn't like a single candidate in today's Democratic gubernatorial race. I didn't vote for one. I voted down ballot. I didnt want my vote behind someone whose values didn't line up with mine, even though there were candidates that went completely against my values. Because in the end, your vote, my vote, anyone's vote is a direct reflection of the values they cherish and the ones they're to look past. In actuality, I think the great loss of the Democrats and Republicans (mainly far left liberals and conservatives) is their ability to empathize with rural and southern America and western northeastern America, to the point of what amounts to ritual suicide. Nevertheless, I'm never really buying into the idea of Democrats pushing people to vote for Trump. As if a gun was held to anyone's head. That's a bit skating past someone's moral compass. Not when there were other options, not when you can down ballot vote or find 3rd party candidates. Imo, that's just a willingness to ignore someone's faults, not a decision of not liking a candidate on the other side. If that idea makes for vote for someone like Trump again, hey, your decision.
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Post by spaneli on Mar 20, 2018 21:34:44 GMT -5
The 1972 voting demographic featured a majority of voters who lived during the Jim Crowe era. Up until 15 years prior many had actively participated in voter suppression of blacks. That's a very very very tenuous comparison.
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Post by globe on Mar 21, 2018 2:18:14 GMT -5
I'm not sure where you're from but I'm a woman and I'm not appalled by him at all..I'm actually appalled by Hillary and the democrats continual sanctimonious judgement of those that voted for Trump. it's absolute bullshit to label everyone that voted for Trump as a racist horrible human being... and for that reason alone most people like myself will most definitely vote Trump and Republican in all elections. Btw I was a Democrat before this election as were my parents, grandparents, and great grandparents.. And I'm from Louisiana. I mean, if you didn't like Hillary, fair enough. A ton of people didn't. But not liking one doesn't lead to the support of another. That's nonsensical. Especially when the other is so morally flawed. Like personally, in this period, that doesn't seem to be a good enough reason (and if it's your reason then fair enough, but expect to be roundly criticized) Like I didn't like a single candidate in today's Democratic gubernatorial race. I didn't vote for one. I voted down ballot. I didnt want my vote behind someone whose values didn't line up with mine, even though there were candidates that went completely against my values. Because in the end, your vote, my vote, anyone's vote is a direct reflection of the values they cherish and the ones they're to look past. In actuality, I think the great loss of the Democrats and Republicans (mainly far left liberals and conservatives) is their ability to empathize with rural and southern America and western northeastern America, to the point of what amounts to ritual suicide. Nevertheless, I'm never really buying into the idea of Democrats pushing people to vote for Trump. As if a gun was held to anyone's head. That's a bit skating past someone's moral compass. Not when there were other options, not when you can down ballot vote or find 3rd party candidates. Imo, that's just a willingness to ignore someone's faults, not a decision of not liking a candidate on the other side. If that idea makes for vote for someone like Trump again, hey, your decision. Aye, as an outsider I find it fascinating that people defend their support of Trump by talking about Clinton. “but Hillary did this, Hillary said that”. Bizzare.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2018 9:32:57 GMT -5
I absolutely despise Trump but since it was Trump vs. Clinton I would've probably skipped the whole voting because I would've felt bad voting either of them. But luckily I'm not from USA.
Yes, Clinton might've been the lesser bad but there are a few things in her which I don't like at all. The biggest is probably her warmongering, which is something I'm personally strongly against.
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Post by spaneli on Mar 22, 2018 15:12:08 GMT -5
I absolutely despise Trump but since it was Trump vs. Clinton I would've probably skipped the whole voting because I would've felt bad voting either of them. But luckily I'm not from USA. Yes, Clinton might've been the lesser bad but there are a few things in her which I don't like at all. The biggest is probably her warmongering, which is something I'm personally strongly against. That point has never made sense to me. Clinton is a complete and utter hawk, but I said this about 2 years ago, I don't know where people got that Trump wasn't as much of a hawk. Like, he's gone out there to say that he wants to expand our nuclear arsenal and has openly threatened to use it. That's the very definition of warmongering, and he did it on the campaign trail. Yet, it was a criticism openly levied at Clinton but not Trump (when both's foreign policy beliefs are nearly identical). I knew people who wanted to vote for Trump because they thought he'd be less likely to start a war, which I find to be completely irrational and not in line with anything he has said.
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Post by spaneli on Mar 22, 2018 18:15:07 GMT -5
I absolutely despise Trump but since it was Trump vs. Clinton I would've probably skipped the whole voting because I would've felt bad voting either of them. But luckily I'm not from USA. Yes, Clinton might've been the lesser bad but there are a few things in her which I don't like at all. The biggest is probably her warmongering, which is something I'm personally strongly against. That point has never made sense to me. Clinton is a complete and utter hawk, but I said this about 2 years ago, I don't know where people got that Trump wasn't as much of a hawk. Like, he's gone out there to say that he wants to expand our nuclear arsenal and has openly threatened to use it. That's the very definition of warmongering, and he did it on the campaign trail. Yet, it was a criticism openly levied at Clinton but not Trump (when both's foreign policy beliefs are nearly identical). I knew people who wanted to vote for Trump because they thought he'd be less likely to start a war, which I find to be completely irrational and not in line with anything he has said. And now Trump has decided to appoint John Bolton, the biggest Hawk and warmongerer in the Western Hemisphere to be the next National Security adviser. i.e. there's now a bigger warmongerer than Hillary Clinton in the White House with a pulse on the president (but don't say I didn't tell you so two years ago. That Trump was as big of a hawk as Hillary).
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