|
Post by drummert5 on Jan 5, 2018 16:45:46 GMT -5
This is the most interesting part and no is talking about it. Fucking awesome! Let's hope he keeps his word. also - great interviews, thanks for posting! The proof of the pudding is in the eating. The transformation of the 2015 confident, HFB-foot-first setlist into the 2016 half Oasis setlist was unfortunate, and I hope he keeps his nerve this time.
|
|
|
Post by mossy on Jan 7, 2018 4:56:36 GMT -5
This is the most interesting part and no is talking about it. Fucking awesome! Let's hope he keeps his word. also - great interviews, thanks for posting! I’ll get excited when I see it happen. Fingers crossed though.
|
|
|
Post by vespa on Jan 7, 2018 19:19:22 GMT -5
A songwriter is exactly that ,you write the songs the structure ,melody ,words and say what’s going on it.A producer produces this adds effects ,gives advice but have no input in structure ,they add the final mix and programme drums or Synths if required all though is passed by the songwriter ..Co-writer is you pen the songs and the basics but the other guy adds to the structure and Melody but the main person writes the majority and basics
|
|
|
Post by AdidasNG72 on Jan 12, 2018 23:43:45 GMT -5
A songwriter is exactly that ,you write the songs the structure ,melody ,words and say what’s going on it.A producer produces this adds effects ,gives advice but have no input in structure ,they add the final mix and programme drums or Synths if required all though is passed by the songwriter ..Co-writer is you pen the songs and the basics but the other guy adds to the structure and Melody but the main person writes the majority and basics Thanks for the clarification. It sums up what many of us have said on here, and why Holmes is not classed as a co-writer for the album.
|
|
|
Post by bogaloo on Jan 14, 2018 9:49:04 GMT -5
A songwriter is exactly that ,you write the songs the structure ,melody ,words and say what’s going on it.A producer produces this adds effects ,gives advice but have no input in structure ,they add the final mix and programme drums or Synths if required all though is passed by the songwriter ..Co-writer is you pen the songs and the basics but the other guy adds to the structure and Melody but the main person writes the majority and basics Thanks for the clarification. It sums up what many of us have said on here, and why Holmes is not classed as a co-writer for the album. Exactly 😀
|
|
|
Post by theseventwenty on Jan 14, 2018 12:41:29 GMT -5
A songwriter is exactly that ,you write the songs the structure ,melody ,words and say what’s going on it.A producer produces this adds effects ,gives advice but have no input in structure ,they add the final mix and programme drums or Synths if required all though is passed by the songwriter ..Co-writer is you pen the songs and the basics but the other guy adds to the structure and Melody but the main person writes the majority and basics Yeah, but it's not necessarily as cut and shut as that. If I went to record with a producer and my song was super catchy for the first 3 minutes and then had 20 repeats of the chorus the producer might be like "hey, so I don't think the chorus needs to repeat that many times - just saying". That doesn't make them a cowriter...the lines are kinda blurry with this stuff. I was in the studio a few weeks ago with a bass player friend of mine and he was like "you should slow the tempo a touch and drop out some of the instrumentation in the pre-chorus". Is he co-writer now? Or producer? Or just a bass player?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2018 23:54:22 GMT -5
If you're a creative team in the studio everyone should feel free to collaborate and exchange ideas without worrying who gets credit. In all sections of the entertainment industry I find it amusing how hungry people are for credits. I understand there's often royalties at stake, but you'll be getting a good few quid working on the project anyway. Be nice if people could just be collaborative and not get hung up on who come up with this bit or that. Truth be told most real artists with a lot of years in the industry don't remember who suggested what anyway. I think Noel forgets himself most of the time, he just goes along with whatever anecdote or joke sounds better in an interview.
|
|
|
Post by jeffslate on Mar 26, 2018 11:43:00 GMT -5
Yes I know where you are going with this. I have thought this too recently. However, I think NG looks at co-writing as someone who actually co-writes the songs themselves - writing lyrics, playing an instrument, strumming along and changing a few chords themselves, etc. As Lennon had a half-finished song, Paul would fill it in with something he had written. That to me defines `co-writing.' It sounds to me Holmes nudged NG in the right direction, suggested things to him, and then NG would go off and play with it, see if it would develop into anything more. He would still write the lyrics and chords. The only thing Holmes would do afterwards is play with the vibe of the song, the sounds, changing the mix slightly, adding effects or alarm bells, etc. Every interview Noel says on this subject pretty much illustrates this. I guess there are different arguments to be had in what defines co-writing. As I am not a songwriter myself, I don't have a strong opinion on it. Yes, I don’t think there’s a simple definition of what constitutes co-writing. What one artist would consider a co-write another may not. Take the Right Stuff for example. Noel thinks he wrote that entirely himself. The Amorphous Androgynous think they co-wrote it. They played instruments, so are closer to your definition of co-writing above. My personal opinion having heard both their back catalogues up to that point is that the AA are probably right. Given that whole AA debacle, I imagine Noel had a clear contract with Holmes up front saying “Noelly G gets sole songwriting credits for these songs written in the studio”. Holmes is clearly happy being defined as a producer and was happy with that arrangement. Another example is What A Life. I don’t believe Noel has ever had a strong dancey beat in one of his own songs before. That beat is a big part of what makes What A Life and was created by someone else (the engineer I believe). I’m sure anyone who creates a beat for Noel’s beloved Kanye would get credited - because hip hop artists understand the importance of beats. Now one anecdote Noel has told many times is where he was at an awards ceremony and Emeli Sandé’s team went up for a writing award and he couldn’t believe it. One person did the beats, another bass, another melody etc. He forgets when telling that anecdote that his engineer and Holmes have made beats for him. TL;DR Summary: Anyway, the point I’m making is Noel has had some help along the way, whether from the AA, Holmes or engineers writing drum beats for him. He may not consider that help co-writing, but other artists and those songwriting teams he slags off would likely consider it co-writing. I've had off the record chats with NG and others who worked on the record. Holmes was far less involved than you might think. And Noel wrote every lick and every word, so there's that.
|
|
|
Post by drummert5 on Mar 26, 2018 16:37:01 GMT -5
TL;DR Summary: Anyway, the point I’m making is Noel has had some help along the way, whether from the AA, Holmes or engineers writing drum beats for him. He may not consider that help co-writing, but other artists and those songwriting teams he slags off would likely consider it co-writing. I've had off the record chats with NG and others who worked on the record. Holmes was far less involved than you might think. And Noel wrote every lick and every word, so there's that. That's very encouraging to hear - there were times in this album cycle where it sounded as though the songs were more or less constructed by Holmes out of various snippets Noel jammed around with in the studio (in the same way Eno and Lanois worked with U2, for instance). While there's nothing wrong with that, it's never been Noel's process. And I'm kind of pleased to hear it still isn't.
|
|
|
Post by martinpaul on Mar 27, 2018 8:01:41 GMT -5
Yes, I don’t think there’s a simple definition of what constitutes co-writing. What one artist would consider a co-write another may not. Take the Right Stuff for example. Noel thinks he wrote that entirely himself. The Amorphous Androgynous think they co-wrote it. They played instruments, so are closer to your definition of co-writing above. My personal opinion having heard both their back catalogues up to that point is that the AA are probably right. Given that whole AA debacle, I imagine Noel had a clear contract with Holmes up front saying “Noelly G gets sole songwriting credits for these songs written in the studio”. Holmes is clearly happy being defined as a producer and was happy with that arrangement. Another example is What A Life. I don’t believe Noel has ever had a strong dancey beat in one of his own songs before. That beat is a big part of what makes What A Life and was created by someone else (the engineer I believe). I’m sure anyone who creates a beat for Noel’s beloved Kanye would get credited - because hip hop artists understand the importance of beats. Now one anecdote Noel has told many times is where he was at an awards ceremony and Emeli Sandé’s team went up for a writing award and he couldn’t believe it. One person did the beats, another bass, another melody etc. He forgets when telling that anecdote that his engineer and Holmes have made beats for him. TL;DR Summary: Anyway, the point I’m making is Noel has had some help along the way, whether from the AA, Holmes or engineers writing drum beats for him. He may not consider that help co-writing, but other artists and those songwriting teams he slags off would likely consider it co-writing. I've had off the record chats with NG and others who worked on the record. Holmes was far less involved than you might think. And Noel wrote every lick and every word, so there's that. Because the guy who has openly stole other people's ideas without credit for 20 years and is a notorious control freak is going to admit (or indeed allow anyone else working on the record to admit) that other's had a part in it, but no it's 100% Noel's work. Always is
|
|
|
Post by spaneli on Mar 27, 2018 10:25:09 GMT -5
I've had off the record chats with NG and others who worked on the record. Holmes was far less involved than you might think. And Noel wrote every lick and every word, so there's that. Because the guy who has openly stole other people's ideas without credit for 20 years and is a notorious control freak is going to admit (or indeed allow anyone else working on the record to admit) that other's had a part in it, but no it's 100% Noel's work. Always is You're saying that Noel wouldn't let anyone admit, including himself, that he didn't 100% plan an album when he clearly has been saying for several months that he didn't 100% plan this album. Which essentially shoots your argument out of the water. And actually strengthens Jeff State's argument because if Noel's been admitting that he didn't 100% plan the album, then why would anyone be lying for him? Doesn't really make sense.
|
|