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Post by The Invisible Sun on Dec 19, 2015 19:51:22 GMT -5
While I loved this film, I am disappointed with it. Creatively, JJ didn't satisfy my expectations. It was basically A New Hope all over again. So originality sort of goes out the window.
The characters:
Rey is fine by me. She's the most interesting. She's a little mysterious, and likable.
Finn, for such an enjoyable performance by Boyega, where was the character? He just decides to quit after 20 or so years of brainwashing? Now, that could be believable, but those types of people that flea from battle after witnessing things that horrify them typically have psychological problems after. none of which Finn displayed. Even more, we're to suddenly believe that his compassion kicked in. That's a stretch. I call it plot convenience. And its execution was awful, rushing through it all when it should have received more focus.
Kylo Ren, very whiny. More so than even Anakin in the prequels. He throws schoolboy tantrums over basic failures by other people of his organization. Such a far cry from throwing shouting fits after slaughtering entire villages of humanoid creatures. I guess Rey was right in that regard, Kylo would never be like Vader. He will always be inferior. I dislike the guys mask. What's the point? Sure, he's obsessed with Vader. So that's the excuse that is implied. But I think we can all agree the real reason is that JJ was just going for another villain with a deepish voice in a mask reminiscent of Vader. Just like the rest of the film is reminiscent of the original trilogy, specifically A New Hope. I also dislike how they handled the son of Han Solo and Leia reveal. It was so casual, invoking no emotion at all, especially when Han faces him later on. It could have been the next best twist since Empire and Luke/Vader. (Maybe they're saving the big twist for Rey's parentage?) In any case, it could have been better handled.
Poe Dameron - We don't know anything about him, other than that he's a really good pilot. But I found his and Finns relationship especially cringeworthy. They were acting like good friends that cared about each other even 5 minutes after they met, or what seemed like it in the film. Even more strange, Poe immediately trusted Finn, whom he knew was a stormtrooper (as did the resistance altogether later on).
Plot: Is this movie about destroying the new bigger death star or finding Luke? I'm really not sure. You could say both. But neither of these plots really help move along the other. In A New Hope, it was about destroying the death star. Everything that happened, did so according to the initial plan of getting the plans to the rebel alliance. In The Force Awakens, the initial plot is to find Luke. Afterwards, stuff happens, more stuff happens, and then 2 minutes of finding Luke at the end of the film. Even more odd, his own sister, Leia, doesn't really seem too interested in finding and instead sends Rey, an unseasoned kid, to find one of the most powerful and important people in the galaxy. Blowing up Starkiller Base didn't impact finding Luke. It wasn't contingent on it in anyway.
The Force: JJ throws all Star Wars logic out the window here. Finn uses a lightsaber, fairly effectively against a seasoned, mostly trained force user, even landing a hit or two. Sure, he loses horribly in the end, but he did too much damage. He should have been tossed like a ragdoll immediately. It makes Kylo Ren look even more like a wimp. He does the same with Rey. Rey, who doesn't receive any training whatsoever, not only is she capable of using mind tricks, but can force pull and defeat Kylo Ren in lightsaber battle. No skill at all. Now maybe that isn't the case. I'm hoping it isn't. Maybe Luke trained her as a young girl before he ran away after Kylo Rens turn. Even still, she doesn't have near as much training or experience as Kylo. I mean, think about this for a second. With Yoda's guidance and training, Luke couldn't defeat Vader in Empire Strikes Back. Now imagine if he did. Even worse, imagine if he were to have fought and won against Vader in A New Hope, with only Ben's minute training aboard the Falcon. I'm willing to accept that she could be stronger than Kylo Ren, but without training, she should have been destroyed. This is a far more harmful blow to The Force than say the idea of Midichlorians ever were in the prequels. This was harmful to Kylo Ren as the villain. Makes him look even more wimpy. Hell, don't bother going to any sort of Jedi Academy or master any more. All you have to do is close your eyes for a second and get in touch with The Force and you're a Jedi Master now.
The Pace: Pretty much this can be assumed from the previous complaints. But I didn't like it. They didn't linger enough on the important bits or the more interesting parts when they could have. Explosions seemed to be more important.
Minor Tidbit:
The Millennium Falcon...how is it that the legendary fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy is relatively unknown and even worse unguarded? What's the likelihood of it ending up in Reys hands and then Solo's? Plot convenience.
Despite its many flaws, I loved the movie and would like to see it again for things I may have missed. Maybe future episodes will clear some of these complaints up. Not a bad start for a sequel trilogy, but it could have been much stronger. I definitely rate it lower than Episode 4 and 5.
7/10
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Post by theyknowwhatimean on Dec 19, 2015 21:19:10 GMT -5
The Invisible Sun I absolutely agree. I see a lot of parallels between this film and The Dark Knight Rises. When it first came out, everyone really wanted The Dark Knight Rises to be great, and there were enough well done action sequences and moments of fan service to convince an excited audience watching it for the first time, that it really was; but over time, and when given repeated viewings, holes in the logic started to appear. With Star Wars, even when I was watching it, I was thinking 'so this Finn doesn't have any special abilities at all? How is he not dead yet?...' And a day later, even more plot holes/conveniences are now starting to be highlighted by yourself and others.
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Post by jakob61907 on Dec 19, 2015 21:28:25 GMT -5
The Invisible Sun I absolutely agree. I see a lot of parallels between this film and The Dark Knight Rises. When it first came out, everyone really wanted The Dark Knight Rises to be great, and there were enough well done action sequences and moments of fan service to convince an excited audience watching it for the first time, that it really was; but over time, and when given repeated viewings, holes in the logic started to appear. With Star Wars, even when I was watching it, I was thinking 'so this Finn doesn't have any special abilities at all? How is he not dead yet?...' And a day later, even more plot holes/conveniences are now starting to be highlighted by yourself and others. If you look hard enough you can find holes in literally anything. I think even if there are a few holes it sets everything up and couldn't be further away from the prequels and was well made. Thoroughly enjoyable.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Dec 19, 2015 22:12:22 GMT -5
The Invisible Sun I absolutely agree. I see a lot of parallels between this film and The Dark Knight Rises. When it first came out, everyone really wanted The Dark Knight Rises to be great, and there were enough well done action sequences and moments of fan service to convince an excited audience watching it for the first time, that it really was; but over time, and when given repeated viewings, holes in the logic started to appear. With Star Wars, even when I was watching it, I was thinking 'so this Finn doesn't have any special abilities at all? How is he not dead yet?...' And a day later, even more plot holes/conveniences are now starting to be highlighted by yourself and others. Basically how I feel, yes. When The Phantom Menace first came out, it was well reviewed. We all know what came about that opinion with time. That's not to say this film is even close to the flaws of The Phantom Menace, but I think the same idea applies. When it comes to Star Wars, I love all the films despite their flaws. There's just a charm that comes with each film for me that I can't really find anywhere else. TFA is no exception. It's a film I will continue to watch for the rest of my life and enjoy every bit of it. Also, I still haven't figured out if this is titled as Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens or just Star Wars: The Force Awakens. Why would JJ drop the Episode VII bit? They have to know the fans are going to refer to it like that anyway.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Dec 19, 2015 22:59:10 GMT -5
The Invisible Sun I absolutely agree. I see a lot of parallels between this film and The Dark Knight Rises. When it first came out, everyone really wanted The Dark Knight Rises to be great, and there were enough well done action sequences and moments of fan service to convince an excited audience watching it for the first time, that it really was; but over time, and when given repeated viewings, holes in the logic started to appear. With Star Wars, even when I was watching it, I was thinking 'so this Finn doesn't have any special abilities at all? How is he not dead yet?...' And a day later, even more plot holes/conveniences are now starting to be highlighted by yourself and others. Basically how I feel, yes. When The Phantom Menace first came out, it was well reviewed. We all know what came about that opinion with time. That's not to say this film is even close to the flaws of The Phantom Menace, but I think the same idea applies. When it comes to Star Wars, I love all the films despite their flaws. There's just a charm that comes with each film for me that I can't really find anywhere else. TFA is no exception. It's a film I will continue to watch for the rest of my life and enjoy every bit of it. Also, I still haven't figured out if this is titled as Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens or just Star Wars: The Force Awakens. Why would JJ drop the Episode VII bit? They have to know the fans are going to refer to it like that anyway. The Phantom Menace did not get great reviews at the time. Just said the film was......average........and for a brand spanking Star Wars film that prospect was horrifying. After a 15 year wait this is what Lucas delivered? I wanted the reviews to be wrong but after seeing TPM on opening night I knew they were 100% accurate. Sad that the future reviews got even more dicey.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Dec 19, 2015 23:00:53 GMT -5
I'm thinking a lot of Maz's scene were cut or altered. Some of her lines in the trailer don't appear in the movie. The shot of her giving Leia the lightsaber also never happens in the movie. Then she just disappears after telling Finn the saber is a weapon. After that point not one mention of her ever again. That's so strange.
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Post by glider on Dec 19, 2015 23:29:20 GMT -5
Honestly people can nitpick the mess out of the movie but would you rather have a rehashed A New Hope or a movie about Trade routes and negotiations?
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Post by glider on Dec 19, 2015 23:34:59 GMT -5
I'm thinking a lot of Maz's scene were cut or altered. Some of her lines in the trailer don't appear in the movie. The shot of her giving Leia the lightsaber also never happens in the movie. Then she just disappears after telling Finn the saber is a weapon. After that point not one mention of her ever again. That's so strange. Reminds me of Age of Ultron (Avengers). They cut out alot that should've been in that movie, and it made Ultron feel very lackluster. Phasma was hyped up in this film to be the next Boba Fett and well she had what like 4 scenes? I have to agree with The Invisible Sun that Finn's story was rushed. He's like "Welp I can't do this anymore" and when Poe asks him why he's helping him all we get is "Cause its the right thing to do" WTF? I think the movie should've been a bit longer and can't wait for the obvious extended/director's cut.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Dec 19, 2015 23:44:14 GMT -5
Basically how I feel, yes. When The Phantom Menace first came out, it was well reviewed. We all know what came about that opinion with time. That's not to say this film is even close to the flaws of The Phantom Menace, but I think the same idea applies. When it comes to Star Wars, I love all the films despite their flaws. There's just a charm that comes with each film for me that I can't really find anywhere else. TFA is no exception. It's a film I will continue to watch for the rest of my life and enjoy every bit of it. Also, I still haven't figured out if this is titled as Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens or just Star Wars: The Force Awakens. Why would JJ drop the Episode VII bit? They have to know the fans are going to refer to it like that anyway. The Phantom Menace did not get great reviews at the time. Just said the film was......average........and for a brand spanking Star Wars film that prospect was horrifying. After a 15 year wait this is what Lucas delivered? I wanted the reviews to be wrong but after seeing TPM on opening night I knew they were 100% accurate. Sad that the future reviews got even more dicey. I recall differently, so do many others. Hell, Roger Ebert, like him or hate him, he's well respected, gave it a good score. He's not the only one. The reviews are still out there, time stamped and all. Lots of big names. Names that are still around. That's not to say there weren't bad reviews at the time, of course there were, but it wasn't the focal point that it is now. The point is, people were excited, enthralled by the new film, looking past its flaws and with time settled on the idea that it wasn't as good as they first thought. You were one of the few disappointed right out of the gate. I also add that's a good thing. If your opinion hasn't changed since, you were more honest with yourself right from the beginning while many if not most others held onto feelings of nostalgia and excitement to convince themselves they liked it.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Dec 19, 2015 23:49:48 GMT -5
Honestly people can nitpick the mess out of the movie but would you rather have a rehashed A New Hope or a movie about Trade routes and negotiations? As a child I didn't care for the politics. It was just the boring parts that led to action. As an adult I appreciate it. Though, I still criticize the choice to include it in a movie that was aimed at kids. I still hate the asian fish people and it certainly impacts my viewing of the trade disputes. I try to ignore the who. I love the senators side of it though.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Dec 19, 2015 23:54:23 GMT -5
I'm thinking a lot of Maz's scene were cut or altered. Some of her lines in the trailer don't appear in the movie. The shot of her giving Leia the lightsaber also never happens in the movie. Then she just disappears after telling Finn the saber is a weapon. After that point not one mention of her ever again. That's so strange. Phasma was hyped up in this film to be the next Boba Fett and well she had what like 4 scenes? I think the movie should've been a bit longer and can't wait for the obvious extended/director's cut. I forgot about Phasma completely. She would make my list of complaints. However, I'd consider that a nitpick for my category only because it was the fault of the hype surrounding her leading to a false sense of importance. This may very well be because they know she becomes an important villain in the future films (fingers crossed). Can't wait for any extended edition.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Dec 20, 2015 0:03:26 GMT -5
The Phantom Menace did not get great reviews at the time. Just said the film was......average........and for a brand spanking Star Wars film that prospect was horrifying. After a 15 year wait this is what Lucas delivered? I wanted the reviews to be wrong but after seeing TPM on opening night I knew they were 100% accurate. Sad that the future reviews got even more dicey. I recall differently, so do many others. Hell, Roger Ebert, like him or hate him, he's well respected, gave it a good score. He's not the only one. The reviews are still out there, time stamped and all. Lots of big names. Names that are still around. That's not to say there weren't bad reviews at the time, of course there were, but it wasn't the focal point that it is now. The point is, people were excited, enthralled by the new film, looking past its flaws and with time settled on the idea that it wasn't as good as they first thought. You were one of the few disappointed right out of the gate. I also add that's a good thing. If your opinion hasn't changed since, you were more honest with yourself right from the beginning while many if not most others held onto feelings of nostalgia and excitement to convince themselves they liked it. I'm aware of Ebert's reviews. It's one of the few we clung to in high school prior to seeing PM opening night. We'd read plenty of so-so reviews and naturally rejected them. I don't recall many extremely positive reviews.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Dec 20, 2015 0:17:07 GMT -5
I recall differently, so do many others. Hell, Roger Ebert, like him or hate him, he's well respected, gave it a good score. He's not the only one. The reviews are still out there, time stamped and all. Lots of big names. Names that are still around. That's not to say there weren't bad reviews at the time, of course there were, but it wasn't the focal point that it is now. The point is, people were excited, enthralled by the new film, looking past its flaws and with time settled on the idea that it wasn't as good as they first thought. You were one of the few disappointed right out of the gate. I also add that's a good thing. If your opinion hasn't changed since, you were more honest with yourself right from the beginning while many if not most others held onto feelings of nostalgia and excitement to convince themselves they liked it. I'm aware of Ebert's reviews. It's one of the few we clung to in high school prior to seeing PM opening night. We'd read plenty of so-so reviews and naturally rejected them. I don't recall many extremely positive reviews. I did state well-reviewed. I wouldn't consider that near extremely positive, but it is favorable. TFA does seem to have extremely positive reviews, however.
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Post by glider on Dec 20, 2015 0:27:46 GMT -5
Basically how I feel, yes. When The Phantom Menace first came out, it was well reviewed. We all know what came about that opinion with time. That's not to say this film is even close to the flaws of The Phantom Menace, but I think the same idea applies. When it comes to Star Wars, I love all the films despite their flaws. There's just a charm that comes with each film for me that I can't really find anywhere else. TFA is no exception. It's a film I will continue to watch for the rest of my life and enjoy every bit of it. Also, I still haven't figured out if this is titled as Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens or just Star Wars: The Force Awakens. Why would JJ drop the Episode VII bit? They have to know the fans are going to refer to it like that anyway. The Phantom Menace did not get great reviews at the time. Just said the film was......average........and for a brand spanking Star Wars film that prospect was horrifying. After a 15 year wait this is what Lucas delivered? I wanted the reviews to be wrong but after seeing TPM on opening night I knew they were 100% accurate. Sad that the future reviews got even more dicey. So you were among the few that didn't like it when it first came out? Apparently what I understand so many people were still under the hype train influence and at the very least said it was decent.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Dec 20, 2015 0:32:13 GMT -5
I'm aware of Ebert's reviews. It's one of the few we clung to in high school prior to seeing PM opening night. We'd read plenty of so-so reviews and naturally rejected them. I don't recall many extremely positive reviews. I did state well-reviewed. I wouldn't consider that near extremely positive, but it is favorable. TFA does seem to have extremely positive reviews, however. I still don't recall many positive reviews. Most were average and I think many were scared to give Star Wars a poor review. The hype was unreal. Also, keep in mind that in the spring of 1999 the Internet wasn't what it was today. We got our reviews from the newspapers and magazines mostly. So at the time I read Asbury Park Press, USA Today, Entertainment Weekly, Variety. Stuff like that. Ebert was syndicated so that was also in the local papers. His was the best. The others not so much.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Dec 20, 2015 0:37:21 GMT -5
The Phantom Menace did not get great reviews at the time. Just said the film was......average........and for a brand spanking Star Wars film that prospect was horrifying. After a 15 year wait this is what Lucas delivered? I wanted the reviews to be wrong but after seeing TPM on opening night I knew they were 100% accurate. Sad that the future reviews got even more dicey. So you were among the few that didn't like it when it first came out? Apparently what I understand so many people were still under the hype train influence and at the very least said it was decent. My friends and I certainly knew it wasn't very good despite some cool aspects (Qui-Gon, Maul, Duel of Fates, end lightsaber fight) but overall it was weak and didn't feel like Star Wars. We tried to convince ourselves that PM was all about setup and Episode II was going to take things to the next level like Empire did. Swing and a miss! Those reviews were brutal and seeing that film in the theater was a low point in my cinema viewing history. A train wreck on all fronts. Anyways, back to Menace. Can you imagine we had to talk ourselves into a star wars movie being about setup for a bigger payoff later? Madness. These are action adventure tales. Star Wars shouldn't be complex and need countless explaining.
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Post by glider on Dec 20, 2015 0:39:38 GMT -5
So you were among the few that didn't like it when it first came out? Apparently what I understand so many people were still under the hype train influence and at the very least said it was decent. My friends and I certainly knew it wasn't very good despite some cool aspects (Qui-Gon, Maul, Duel of Fates, end lightsaber fight) but overall it was weak and didn't feel like Star Wars. We tried to convince ourselves that PM was all about setup and Episode II was going to take things to the next level like Empire did. Swing and a miss! Those reviews were brutal and seeing that film in the theater was a low point in my cinema viewing history. A train wreck on all fronts. Anyways, back to Menace. Can you imagine we had to talk ourselves into a star wars movie being about setup for a bigger payoff later? Madness. These are action adventure tales. Star Wara shouldn't be complex and need counties explaining. Phantom Menace isn't as big as a train wreck as Attack of the Clones though. Crash and burn, boring, dull, doesn't go anywhere. The Clone Wars backstory was such a let down and could've been cooler if it wasn't about an army of clones against an army of droids.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Dec 20, 2015 0:42:00 GMT -5
My friends and I certainly knew it wasn't very good despite some cool aspects (Qui-Gon, Maul, Duel of Fates, end lightsaber fight) but overall it was weak and didn't feel like Star Wars. We tried to convince ourselves that PM was all about setup and Episode II was going to take things to the next level like Empire did. Swing and a miss! Those reviews were brutal and seeing that film in the theater was a low point in my cinema viewing history. A train wreck on all fronts. Anyways, back to Menace. Can you imagine we had to talk ourselves into a star wars movie being about setup for a bigger payoff later? Madness. These are action adventure tales. Star Wara shouldn't be complex and need counties explaining. Phantom Menace isn't as big as a train wreck as Attack of the Clones though. Crash and burn, boring, dull, doesn't go anywhere. The Clone Wars backstory was such a let down and could've been cooler if it wasn't about an army of clones against an army of droids. The world waited 15 years for a new Star Wars film and the movie literally begins in a waiting room?!?!??!? Enough said. We were doomed.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2015 4:45:00 GMT -5
You could pick a lot of holes in any of the original trilogy films though. Why are the stormtroopers so shit, but then Obi Wan makes a remark about how accurate they are? How does Han manage to find Luke in that vast wasteland of frozen tundra? Why didn't Darth Vader realize Leia was his daughter, surely he must have had some sort of force-feeling as he was able to know when Luke was on the ship approaching Endor etc. ?
Nowadays you just call it plot convenience and criticise it, but if it weren't for plot convenience, all of the films would be shit. Does anyone understand where I'm coming from here? Maybe I'm just getting upset that people are slagging off The Force Awakens even though I thought it was a 10/10.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2015 4:47:26 GMT -5
It effectively serves as an indirect reboot to introduce Star Wars to the next generation, and it's just a really good enjoyable film. I really don't know how people can be disappointed, it's by far the best Star Wars film since 1983!!!
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Post by theyknowwhatimean on Dec 20, 2015 8:14:18 GMT -5
It effectively serves as an indirect reboot to introduce Star Wars to the next generation, and it's just a really good enjoyable film. I really don't know how people can be disappointed, it's by far the best Star Wars film since 1983!!! I prefer Revenge Of The Sith...
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Post by theyknowwhatimean on Dec 20, 2015 8:16:17 GMT -5
I know it's poorly written, but at least it was written at all. Just copying and pasting the plot to A New Hope and changing a few of the character names and locations...Poor form.
But undoubtedly, it's better than the other prequels, and I'd say Return Of The Jedi as well, with the utterly moronic Ewoks.
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Post by theyknowwhatimean on Dec 20, 2015 8:29:05 GMT -5
The Invisible Sun I absolutely agree. I see a lot of parallels between this film and The Dark Knight Rises. When it first came out, everyone really wanted The Dark Knight Rises to be great, and there were enough well done action sequences and moments of fan service to convince an excited audience watching it for the first time, that it really was; but over time, and when given repeated viewings, holes in the logic started to appear. With Star Wars, even when I was watching it, I was thinking 'so this Finn doesn't have any special abilities at all? How is he not dead yet?...' And a day later, even more plot holes/conveniences are now starting to be highlighted by yourself and others. If you look hard enough you can find holes in literally anything. I think even if there are a few holes it sets everything up and couldn't be further away from the prequels and was well made. Thoroughly enjoyable. But that's just it! When I was in the cinema watching it for the first time, I wasn't looking for plot holes/conveniences, they were just there, glaringly obvious at times. That is not good. Not when the film has been in development since 2012/early 2013, and it started to be marketed to us well over a year ago. And it did make me feel uneasy as just how derivative it all was. Please, for the love of god, no more Death Star's! But still, I concede, the film was enjoyable, there's no doubt about that. I particularly enjoyed the comic relief, which is surprising, as Star Wars is not usually known for its ability to make us laugh (Jar-Jar, "nerf-herder!", Ewoks etc.), but I did laugh out loud a couple of times whilst watching it.
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Post by theyknowwhatimean on Dec 20, 2015 8:36:38 GMT -5
Ok. Obviously solo bought the farm. Where does this leave Chewie !? And what happened to r2 and c3 ? You're not planning on seeing it, are you? If so, I'd probably stop reading now, if I were you. Chewie flies off with the new character, Rey, in the Falcon, to find Luke, and R2-D2 and C-3PO are just hanging about the 'Resistance' (basically the new 'Rebels') base. When we first see R2, he's on "low-power", not moving or beeping or anything, like he's in some kind of self-induced droid-coma or something, because Luke's no longer with him. Then at the end, he wakes up again to show that Luke wants to be found again, I guess.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Dec 20, 2015 8:49:56 GMT -5
You could pick a lot of holes in any of the original trilogy films though. Why are the stormtroopers so shit, but then Obi Wan makes a remark about how accurate they are? How does Han manage to find Luke in that vast wasteland of frozen tundra? Why didn't Darth Vader realize Leia was his daughter, surely he must have had some sort of force-feeling as he was able to know when Luke was on the ship approaching Endor etc. ? Nowadays you just call it plot convenience and criticise it, but if it weren't for plot convenience, all of the films would be shit. Does anyone understand where I'm coming from here? Maybe I'm just getting upset that people are slagging off The Force Awakens even though I thought it was a 10/10. A lot of the plot holes of the original trilogy involve Lucas changing his mind on character back stories. Originally Anakin and Vader were different people. In ANH several characters call Vader "Darth" as if it's his first name. Leia, Ben and Tarkin do this constantly. Its only after while writing Empire that he decided Anakin and Vader should now be the same person. Then in Empire, Yoda says there is another........this also was going to be a brand new female character in Jedi and was also Luke's sister. While writing Jedi, Lucas decided to make Leia Luke's sister for more shock value. That's why Obi wan and Vader have no idea Leia is Vaders daughter in ANH. Surely Obi wan would know. He was apart of their hiding! That's also why all those Luke and Leia kisses look so out of place in ANH and Empire. George Lucas is a tinker.
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