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Post by The Escapist on May 22, 2023 18:30:19 GMT -5
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Post by RocketMan on May 24, 2023 9:34:17 GMT -5
#idontknowwhatyoumeanbutinterwillfinishcityforthegreatergoodoffootball #Hashtag
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Post by matt on May 26, 2023 13:59:25 GMT -5
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65726931Thomas Frank is one of the few bearable managers in the farce that is the Premier League, and he's spot on here. It's sad how it's all punishment and no rehabilitation for gambling offences. It's a broader question about the football authorities responsibilities towards this. Why punish Toney in a sport which tempts both players and spectators through incessant gambling adverts? You can't watch a football match without it being pummelled into your brain. Once again, the authorities take no responsibility for their actions.
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Post by The Escapist on May 26, 2023 17:53:11 GMT -5
#idontknowwhatyoumeanbutinterwillfinishcityforthegreatergoodoffootball #Hashtag I think he's Madrid-bound, but this thing about him rejecting plastic clubs is PR nonsense. He's held talks with both City and Chelsea (and Liverpool); City are still the only ones matching Dortmund's full valuation, even though talks are more progressed with Madrid. If he's opposed to "plastic clubs", he must have forgotten that when him and his team gave a "yes" to City's approach on wages/terms/etc. He's given out good vibes to a few clubs, nothing is done yet. (At City, he is planned to wear #22 if the deal goes through, it seems. But I think Madrid will settle it.)
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Post by matt on May 27, 2023 5:30:46 GMT -5
City aren’t plastic, they’re simply ahead of the game. Petro-states and corporation-owned football clubs will be the norm in the Premier League. English football has outgrown the old model and the traditional giants of football will have no choice but to embrace this evolution.In other news: I’m really developing a soft spot for Brighton & Palace. Exciting times for both clubs. This is true. Man Utd and Liverpool will unfortunately probably follow with state owned backers if they want to succeed. Doesn't make it right, there's no doubt this treble that City are heading for is the most inconsequential, undeserved trophy haulage ever. Not only illegal, but oh so predictable and boring. Man Utd 99 it ain't, and everyone knows it, despite what those on the broadcast payroll say to give it some desperate PR gloss (thinking of those bunch of tools like McManaman, 'Fletch', Carragher and Neville). I genuinely get more thrill out of the Conference League or Europa League as there's at least some form of meritocracy there. As The Guardian noted, this era will have an asterix beside it in the history book. But replace City with Newcastle or Man Utd or Liverpool when they inevitably get bought out, and it's the system that's screwed. Barca and Madrid rely on illegal subsidies to back them these days, so they're no better. I hate the way the game has gone and I find myself backing the German teams and other smaller clubs all the time without much hope. I pray these elite clubs go under and puts the game in a crises that's needed to force it to change. No club is going to be penalised (as if the crooks in the Premier League, UEFA and FIFA would want to taint their 'brand') so until then, the sport at the elite end is nothing more than a jumped up tacky commercial.
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Post by walterglass on May 27, 2023 10:11:43 GMT -5
City aren’t plastic, they’re simply ahead of the game. Petro-states and corporation-owned football clubs will be the norm in the Premier League. English football has outgrown the old model and the traditional giants of football will have no choice but to embrace this evolution.In other news: I’m really developing a soft spot for Brighton & Palace. Exciting times for both clubs. This is true. Man Utd and Liverpool will unfortunately probably follow with state owned backers if they want to succeed. Doesn't make it right, there's no doubt this treble that City are heading for is the most inconsequential, undeserved trophy haulage ever. Not only illegal, but oh so predictable and boring. Man Utd 99 it ain't, and everyone knows it, despite what those on the broadcast payroll say to give it some desperate PR gloss (thinking of those bunch of tools like McManaman, 'Fletch', Carragher and Neville). I genuinely get more thrill out of the Conference League or Europa League as there's at least some form of meritocracy there. As The Guardian noted, this era will have an asterix beside it in the history book. But replace City with Newcastle or Man Utd or Liverpool when they inevitably get bought out, and it's the system that's screwed. Barca and Madrid rely on illegal subsidies to back them these days, so they're no better. I hate the way the game has gone and I find myself backing the German teams and other smaller clubs all the time without much hope. I pray these elite clubs go under and puts the game in a crises that's needed to force it to change. No club is going to be penalised (as if the crooks in the Premier League, UEFA and FIFA would want to taint their 'brand') so until then, the sport at the elite end is nothing more than a jumped up tacky commercial. I appreciate every word of your post. Especially your reference to meritocracy. But a City-esque template for the future is all I can see for those clubs who succeed. The horse has bolted. And I can only see some meritocracy re-emerging when enough clubs have mirrored the model of PSG, Newcastle, City & co. It’s an ugly reality but the reality nonetheless. As for City being plastic. I doubt the core of their fanbase would indulge that. They were overshadowed for so long. Does their heritage disappear because their fortunes changed? If West Ham receive Qatari investment (as has been touted should they end their interest in Manchester United) do they then become overnight fraudsters? The issue of financial irregularities. Well, as of now they stand accused but are not found guilty. It’s one to keep an eye on.
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Post by The Escapist on May 27, 2023 12:38:35 GMT -5
On the charges, for what it's worth, City are confident.
Not just outwardly confident; they see this as a perfect opportunity to put the FFP accusations to bed. They see a lot of the charges as retrospective (i.e. applying new rules to old activity) and they feel they can tear holes in the whole thing so large as to have the furore ended by 2024. The boss of the EPL has washed his hands of the whole thing, too, quite possibly since it will end up being a PR disaster for the league.
The case is still to happen, and you never know. But talk of asterisks and illegality might be premature.
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Post by The Escapist on May 27, 2023 12:42:57 GMT -5
#idontknowwhatyoumeanbutinterwillfinishcityforthegreatergoodoffootball #Hashtag #2-2 (I was hoping you'd win, sorry. It was just too perfectly set-up not to.)
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Post by matt on May 27, 2023 14:35:14 GMT -5
This is true. Man Utd and Liverpool will unfortunately probably follow with state owned backers if they want to succeed. Doesn't make it right, there's no doubt this treble that City are heading for is the most inconsequential, undeserved trophy haulage ever. Not only illegal, but oh so predictable and boring. Man Utd 99 it ain't, and everyone knows it, despite what those on the broadcast payroll say to give it some desperate PR gloss (thinking of those bunch of tools like McManaman, 'Fletch', Carragher and Neville). I genuinely get more thrill out of the Conference League or Europa League as there's at least some form of meritocracy there. As The Guardian noted, this era will have an asterix beside it in the history book. But replace City with Newcastle or Man Utd or Liverpool when they inevitably get bought out, and it's the system that's screwed. Barca and Madrid rely on illegal subsidies to back them these days, so they're no better. I hate the way the game has gone and I find myself backing the German teams and other smaller clubs all the time without much hope. I pray these elite clubs go under and puts the game in a crises that's needed to force it to change. No club is going to be penalised (as if the crooks in the Premier League, UEFA and FIFA would want to taint their 'brand') so until then, the sport at the elite end is nothing more than a jumped up tacky commercial. I appreciate every word of your post. Especially your reference to meritocracy. But a City-esque template for the future is all I can see for those clubs who succeed. The horse has bolted. And I can only see some meritocracy re-emerging when enough clubs have mirrored the model of PSG, Newcastle, City & co. It’s an ugly reality but the reality nonetheless. As for City being plastic. I doubt the core of their fanbase would indulge that. They were overshadowed for so long. Does their heritage disappear because their fortunes changed? If West Ham receive Qatari investment (as has been touted should they end their interest in Manchester United) do they then become overnight fraudsters? The issue of financial irregularities. Well, as of now they stand accused but are not found guilty. It’s one to keep an eye on. Again, I don't disagree, the horse has bolted and it is the template for success. But manufactured success. Did anyone seriously doubt Man City's ability to win a treble? Of course not, not with the eye watering money they spend on players, agents and their families. And I agree it will become a meritocracy once more clubs have limitless spending power - then you can start to question of judgement, tactics, strategy, etc if everyone has a black cheque. But that's for a very very very select few clubs. When money is the only determinant for success, that's when - to use a cliche - 'the game has gone'. Of course, money has always been the main factor, but it was never the only defining factor for a club to become successful. Arsenal were a middling income club languishing mid table with a small and creaking stadium prior to Wenger's arrival in the mid 90s. Some shrewd ingenuity and smart business decisions (as Man Utd did with Fergie in the mid 80s) turned it into something so admirable. City just buy their trophies, and Guardiola just buys the best players. An obviously capable manager with obviously capable players, all there because of one thing, then it's predictable. There's no rough diamonds, there's no generational youth team coming through, there's no hero's journey for the plucky underdog squad players whos been there through thick and thin. From coaching to players, they're all the finished article cherry picked from elsewhere. It's all fantasy football video game stuff. It's soulless and manufactured success. Just awaiting that BT foghorn Darren Fletcher to bellow 'this is where dreams are realised' to ramp up the superficial nature of it all with other cliched nonsense during the CL final, when in reality, real success is watching a team winning on merit going through hard work, resilience and overcoming prior setbacks - the whole emotional ringer. True success captures the imagination in that narrative form (think of Ferguson's journey from nearly being sacked to winning at the Nou Camp). With the same manager having spent a billion quid in 7 years, this treble isn't a dream, it's a bloody minimal expectation. This thing is so boring now. That's football in a nutshell today. It's not City, it's the whole thing, and I hate them all.
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Post by walterglass on May 27, 2023 15:42:45 GMT -5
I appreciate every word of your post. Especially your reference to meritocracy. But a City-esque template for the future is all I can see for those clubs who succeed. The horse has bolted. And I can only see some meritocracy re-emerging when enough clubs have mirrored the model of PSG, Newcastle, City & co. It’s an ugly reality but the reality nonetheless. As for City being plastic. I doubt the core of their fanbase would indulge that. They were overshadowed for so long. Does their heritage disappear because their fortunes changed? If West Ham receive Qatari investment (as has been touted should they end their interest in Manchester United) do they then become overnight fraudsters? The issue of financial irregularities. Well, as of now they stand accused but are not found guilty. It’s one to keep an eye on. Again, I don't disagree, the horse has bolted and it is the template for success. But manufactured success. Did anyone seriously doubt Man City's ability to win a treble? Of course not, not with the eye watering money they spend on players, agents and their families. And I agree it will become a meritocracy once more clubs have limitless spending power - then you can start to question of judgement, tactics, strategy, etc if everyone has a black cheque. But that's for a very very very select few clubs. When money is the only determinant for success, that's when - to use a cliche - 'the game has gone'. Of course, money has always been the main factor, but it was never the only defining factor for a club to become successful. Arsenal were a middling income club languishing mid table with a small and creaking stadium prior to Wenger's arrival in the mid 90s. Some shrewd ingenuity and smart business decisions (as Man Utd did with Fergie in the mid 80s) turned it into something so admirable. City just buy their trophies, and Guardiola just buys the best players. An obviously capable manager with obviously capable players, all there because of one thing, then it's predictable. There's no rough diamonds, there's no generational youth team coming through, there's no hero's journey for the plucky underdog squad players whos been there through thick and thin. From coaching to players, they're all the finished article cherry picked from elsewhere. It's all fantasy football video game stuff. It's soulless and manufactured success. Just awaiting that BT foghorn Darren Fletcher to bellow 'this is where dreams are realised' to ramp up the superficial nature of it all with other cliched nonsense during the CL final, when in reality, real success is watching a team winning on merit going through hard work, resilience and overcoming prior setbacks - the whole emotional ringer. True success captures the imagination in that narrative form (think of Ferguson's journey from nearly being sacked to winning at the Nou Camp). With the same manager having spent a billion quid in 7 years, this treble isn't a dream, it's a bloody minimal expectation. This thing is so boring now. That's football in a nutshell today. It's not City, it's the whole thing, and I hate them all. We pretty much agree on all points. The City story (and PSG etc) it just seems like the next logical step. Dynasties have been built in the past, by the fellas you mention. Fergie, Wenger etc. Because of their labours their clubs became powerhouses. And football itself became an economic powerhouse, which has inevitably lead to football outgrowing its traditional structures. This is especially true of English football IMO. I think we’re in agreement that it’s an imperfect reality but one that we’re stuck with. What I don’t agree with is people hoping the model crashes, the wheels fall off, it’s all a fraud etc. I also don’t understand people downplaying achievements. I’m a United fan but I have to admire City - and Pep - and the levels of excellence they’re reaching. And if United are taken over by the Qataris I won’t feel we’ve become “plastic”. I’ll feel it’s the next evolutionary step down the road on top of what Sir Alex and others constructed.
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Post by RocketMan on May 28, 2023 0:24:13 GMT -5
What a horrible fucking day
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Post by RocketMan on May 28, 2023 1:18:50 GMT -5
#idontknowwhatyoumeanbutinterwillfinishcityforthegreatergoodoffootball #Hashtag #2-2 (I was hoping you'd win, sorry. It was just too perfectly set-up not to.) You jinxed it.
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Post by The Escapist on May 28, 2023 9:59:43 GMT -5
#2-2 (I was hoping you'd win, sorry. It was just too perfectly set-up not to.) You jinxed it. It's all my fault! I'm sorry!
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Post by Let It 🩸 on Jun 8, 2023 18:23:56 GMT -5
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Post by Let It 🩸 on Jun 10, 2023 12:40:04 GMT -5
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Post by walterglass on Jun 10, 2023 16:11:38 GMT -5
Congrats Citeh.
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Post by Manualex on Jun 10, 2023 16:13:42 GMT -5
Radio X doing their part(I know it won't happen)
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AllOrNothing
Oasis Roadie
I prefer Pulp / Formerly known as "Frenchspeaker"
Posts: 247
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Post by AllOrNothing on Jun 10, 2023 16:14:20 GMT -5
It wasn't a great game but the outcome pleases me
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Post by matt on Jun 10, 2023 16:20:44 GMT -5
Such a non-event, nobody cares. Think most football fans are fed up with this farce now.
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Post by funhouse on Jun 10, 2023 19:28:54 GMT -5
Such a non-event, nobody cares. Think most football fans are fed up with this farce now. They can move the entire knockout stages to Saudi Arabia and enough fans will watch and fill the seats. It's just an acceptance of the fact that not that many people give a fuck, and the rest of us are a minority who they can just choose to roll over.
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Post by funhouse on Jun 10, 2023 19:35:12 GMT -5
But seriously though, hat's off to Sheik Mansour. It's not easy building a squad like this one, but he managed to find players from all over the world who under the leadership of the previously unknown Pep Guardiola really turned into a proper team.
Football really is the sport where anyone can win, who would have thought Manchester City of all clubs would ever win the Champions League just 15 years ago? Wow, I'm feeling such excitement for the future!
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Post by Lennon2217 on Jun 10, 2023 19:41:18 GMT -5
So how hard is City gonna get whacked by those alleged violations?
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Post by RocketMan on Jun 11, 2023 2:57:49 GMT -5
So how hard is City gonna get whacked by those alleged violations? They won’t. Instead a random club from the second division in Poland will get a transfer ban for some unknown reason
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Post by globe on Jun 11, 2023 5:03:24 GMT -5
Amazing what you can do with a couple of billion quid eh. The beautiful game.
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Post by settingson on Jun 11, 2023 6:25:01 GMT -5
Great day for Man City and their fans. Not a great day for football.
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