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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2014 10:18:43 GMT -5
Ok we all have our opinions on best ...to me The steelers of 70 s. The bears , giants 86 niners 80 s raiders 77 for me (if not for Pittsburgh there is the dynasty ) But .,how about worst I'll give you my 5 in that metal show fashion no order then rank , or we include yours like they do .
Kc chiefs 70' Buccaneers ( forget year ) Raiders (81 I think team thts beat eagles ) Ravens 01 sorry but that team was overrated Giants ( pick lucky year vs pats ) either or both
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2014 10:58:19 GMT -5
So after my think
1- chiefs 2- bucs 3 - giants ( last one ) 4- raiders 81 5 giants ( the first ) with coughlin not PARCELLS
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Post by Sternumman on Feb 9, 2014 14:32:20 GMT -5
Have a hard time calling the 01 Ravens over rated. Not a great offense but a great defense and they killed my Giants. I'd say last years Ravens was a less deserving team.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Feb 9, 2014 14:51:33 GMT -5
Off the top of my head........
- 2005 Steelers (Never dug this team all year and Big Ben played like absolute shit in the Super Bowl) - 2007 Giants - 2011 Giants - 2012 Ravens
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2014 14:56:10 GMT -5
Off the top of my head........ - 2005 Steelers (Never dug this team all year and Big Ben played like absolute shit in the Super Bowl) - 2007 Giants - 2011 Giants - 2012 Ravens Yea that works I was going back in memory those chiefs sucked , ,I remember that game with Vikings. But those steelers were lucky even I admit that , the ravens were strait shit . And both giants team to me were asshole lucky , so yea
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Post by Lennon2217 on Feb 9, 2014 14:57:58 GMT -5
Off the top of my head........ - 2005 Steelers (Never dug this team all year and Big Ben played like absolute shit in the Super Bowl) - 2007 Giants - 2011 Giants - 2012 Ravens Yea that works I was going back in memory those chiefs sucked , ,I remember that game with Vikings. But those steelers were lucky even I admit that , the ravens were strait shit . And both giants team to me were asshole lucky , so yea The 2011 Giants team was a lot better than the 2007 squad. I remember around November of that year, Giants' fans wanted Eli's and Coughlin's heads on a plate. They hated both men so passionately. It just goes to show that getting hot and winning cure all problems. Even now, Eli threw 31 interceptions this year, he's given a pass.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2014 14:58:41 GMT -5
Have a hard time calling the 01 Ravens over rated. Not a great offense but a great defense and they killed my Giants. I'd say last years Ravens was a less deserving team. Yea I took them out , I still think a touch overrated but I did redo my five to exclude them from worst
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Post by Sternumman on Feb 9, 2014 15:05:30 GMT -5
Yea that works I was going back in memory those chiefs sucked , ,I remember that game with Vikings. But those steelers were lucky even I admit that , the ravens were strait shit . And both giants team to me were asshole lucky , so yea The 2011 Giants team was a lot better than the 2007 squad. I remember around November of that year, Giants' fans wanted Eli's and Coughlin's heads on a plate. They hated both men so passionately. It just goes to show that getting hot and winning cure all problems. Even now, Eli threw 31 interceptions this year, he's given a pass. 27 int's. It only matters when you get hot and in both of those years ELi turned into the playoff qb Peyton always wished he was.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2014 15:14:23 GMT -5
Yea that works I was going back in memory those chiefs sucked , ,I remember that game with Vikings. But those steelers were lucky even I admit that , the ravens were strait shit . And both giants team to me were asshole lucky , so yea The 2011 Giants team was a lot better than the 2007 squad. I remember around November of that year, Giants' fans wanted Eli's and Coughlin's heads on a plate. They hated both men so passionately. It just goes to show that getting hot and winning cure all problems. Even now, Eli threw 31 interceptions this year, he's given a pass. It's so funny when I hear the Eli for hall of fame talk on the fan ..... If not for two asshole lucky plays that motherfucker would never be called a hall of fame caliber qb. A good qb yes , a special one no. A hall of fAmer ........hell no Side note : you know Lennon2217 was thinking , how great were steelers and how unfortunate cowboys and raiders were in 70 s if not for them cowboys would be most certainly team of 70 s. Or raiders who steelers beat in 3 AFC title games or 2 and one division playoff , the only one they lost was 77 ewhrn we played without swann , Harris , blier
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Post by Lennon2217 on Feb 9, 2014 15:21:08 GMT -5
The 2011 Giants team was a lot better than the 2007 squad. I remember around November of that year, Giants' fans wanted Eli's and Coughlin's heads on a plate. They hated both men so passionately. It just goes to show that getting hot and winning cure all problems. Even now, Eli threw 31 interceptions this year, he's given a pass. It's so funny when I hear the Eli for hall of fame talk on the fan ..... If not for two asshole lucky plays that motherfucker would never be called a hall of fame caliber qb. A good qb yes , a special one no. A hall of fAmer ........hell no Side note : you know Lennon2217 was thinking , how great were steelers and how unfortunate cowboys and raiders were in 70 s if not for them cowboys would be most certainly team of 70 s. Or raiders who steelers beat in 3 AFC title games or 2 and one division playoff , the only one they lost was 77 ewhrn we played without swann , Harris , blier Eli is going to end up in the Hall of Fame. 2-Time Super Bowl MVPs usually do. Its crazy that in Eli's career he has only lead the league in 1 statistic 3 times. That being...........INTERCEPTIONS. The mother of all sins.
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Post by Sternumman on Feb 9, 2014 15:24:12 GMT -5
It's so funny when I hear the Eli for hall of fame talk on the fan ..... If not for two asshole lucky plays that motherfucker would never be called a hall of fame caliber qb. A good qb yes , a special one no. A hall of fAmer ........hell no Side note : you know Lennon2217 was thinking , how great were steelers and how unfortunate cowboys and raiders were in 70 s if not for them cowboys would be most certainly team of 70 s. Or raiders who steelers beat in 3 AFC title games or 2 and one division playoff , the only one they lost was 77 ewhrn we played without swann , Harris , blier Eli is going to end up in the Hall of Fame. 2-Time Super Bowl MVPs usually do. Its crazy that in Eli's career he has only lead the league in 1 statistic 3 times. That being...........INTERCEPTIONS. The mother of all sins. NFL records Most 4th-quarter touchdown passes in a season (15 in 2011) Tied NFL Record longest pass completion and touchdown (99 yards in 2011) Tied NFL Record most game-winning drives in a season (8 in 2011) Most road wins in a single regular season and postseason by a starting quarterback (10) Most passing yards in a single postseason (1,219 yards in 2011)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2014 15:24:29 GMT -5
It's so funny when I hear the Eli for hall of fame talk on the fan ..... If not for two asshole lucky plays that motherfucker would never be called a hall of fame caliber qb. A good qb yes , a special one no. A hall of fAmer ........hell no Side note : you know Lennon2217 was thinking , how great were steelers and how unfortunate cowboys and raiders were in 70 s if not for them cowboys would be most certainly team of 70 s. Or raiders who steelers beat in 3 AFC title games or 2 and one division playoff , the only one they lost was 77 ewhrn we played without swann , Harris , blier Eli is going to end up in the Hall of Fame. 2-Time Super Bowl MVPs usually do. Its crazy that in Eli's career he has only lead the league in 1 statistic 3 times. That being...........INTERCEPTIONS. The mother of all sins. Agreed that second won definatly will get him in .....it's like baseball don't think. 500 homers should get you in if you 260 and couldn't field and hung around as a do ya know ?? Eli will get in ,,,he's a nice guy .... But it's the eye test ,,,when you say Peyton you say hall. Same for Brady , but when I say Eli. I say good qb I do t say hall ....but yes he will be in I agree
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2014 15:28:06 GMT -5
You can go in your encyclopedia all you want ,..... Eli manning to most does not pass the eye test for hall. But yes the statisitions like yourself will get him in ,, I know this ....ps those statistics for road wins is more for team than qb , and passing yards because they play more playoff games now than in past , so hollow stats IMO they had to go thru wild card , so you are using inflated numbers. But don't worry statisticians like yourself will ensure he gets in .......he does not belong however based on the eye test to most
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Post by Sternumman on Feb 9, 2014 15:30:20 GMT -5
Im the Eli homer on this forum and I'm not sure he'll get in. He's definitley not a first ballot guy. There are plenty of deserving guys that deserve to be in that havent made it yet.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2014 15:32:45 GMT -5
No Eli will get In ....and personally I'll be happy ...I like Eli. Think he's a great guy . Just don't think he belongs . Sorta like Andy pettite . But I'm not knocking you and stats , just taking the piss outta you , Based on those 2 wins he's in ,
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2014 15:34:58 GMT -5
I think my stats stuff gets taken wrong , I respect your knowledge , you just look at things very by the book which is fine bit not my way , Eli will get on because of those 2 rings , just like if Andy hung around to get 300 he woulda got in , but Andy didn't so he screwed , those 2 rings get Eli in ....a agree not on first ballot , but second or third Lennon2217.if pettite got 300 he woulda got in right ?
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Post by Lennon2217 on Feb 9, 2014 15:43:11 GMT -5
I think my stats stuff gets taken wrong , I respect your knowledge , you just look at things very by the book which is fine bit not my way , Eli will get on because of those 2 rings , just like if Andy hung around to get 300 he woulda got in , but Andy didn't so he screwed , those 2 rings get Eli in ....a agree not on first ballot , but second or third Lennon2217.if pettite got 300 he woulda got in right ? No, I do not believe he would. His ERA and WHIP way too high.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Feb 9, 2014 15:44:00 GMT -5
Eli is going to end up in the Hall of Fame. 2-Time Super Bowl MVPs usually do. Its crazy that in Eli's career he has only lead the league in 1 statistic 3 times. That being...........INTERCEPTIONS. The mother of all sins. NFL records Most 4th-quarter touchdown passes in a season (15 in 2011) Tied NFL Record longest pass completion and touchdown (99 yards in 2011) Tied NFL Record most game-winning drives in a season (8 in 2011) Most road wins in a single regular season and postseason by a starting quarterback (10) Most passing yards in a single postseason (1,219 yards in 2011) And I'm sure if you went deep into the stats like you just did, you will find even longer lists for Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rogers, etc.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Feb 9, 2014 15:48:29 GMT -5
Eli is going to end up in the Hall of Fame. 2-Time Super Bowl MVPs usually do. Its crazy that in Eli's career he has only lead the league in 1 statistic 3 times. That being...........INTERCEPTIONS. The mother of all sins. NFL records Most 4th-quarter touchdown passes in a season (15 in 2011) Tied NFL Record longest pass completion and touchdown (99 yards in 2011) Tied NFL Record most game-winning drives in a season (8 in 2011) Most road wins in a single regular season and postseason by a starting quarterback (10) Most passing yards in a single postseason (1,219 yards in 2011) Plus a lot of this list is by perspective........ - If you are on a winning team you aren't supposed to be throwing a ton of touchdowns in the 4th quarter. Clock management time. - Longest pass completion for touchdown......who cares....I saw that listed on football reference, not a big deal. - A lot of great QBs play on teams that got home field advantage. You aren't supposed to be on the road that much if you want to win big in January (looking at you Jets and Mark Sanchez). - Most passing yards in a single postseason is misleading due to best teams get byes and extra round of playoffs.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2014 15:49:57 GMT -5
I think my stats stuff gets taken wrong , I respect your knowledge , you just look at things very by the book which is fine bit not my way , Eli will get on because of those 2 rings , just like if Andy hung around to get 300 he woulda got in , but Andy didn't so he screwed , those 2 rings get Eli in ....a agree not on first ballot , but second or third Lennon2217.if pettite got 300 he woulda got in right ? No, I do not believe he would. His ERA and WHIP way too high. You see ...I would agree , however I think that magic 300 would get him in. AND I AGREE WITH YOU HE DONT BELONG. And hope you would. Be proved right , but he would be hard to omit based on 300. I'll tell you this ....don't laugh . But I don't belive don sutton deserved hall or glavine. Glavine at least to me was no first ballot maybe I'm being harsh and he belongs in hall but in first ballot ?? I say no ...sutton to me just hung around , I never once included him in my top 10 of 70 s pitchers not once .
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Post by Sternumman on Feb 9, 2014 15:52:13 GMT -5
I think my stats stuff gets taken wrong , I respect your knowledge , you just look at things very by the book which is fine bit not my way , Eli will get on because of those 2 rings , just like if Andy hung around to get 300 he woulda got in , but Andy didn't so he screwed , those 2 rings get Eli in ....a agree not on first ballot , but second or third Lennon2217.if pettite got 300 he woulda got in right ? No, I do not believe he would. His ERA and WHIP way too high. Mussina deserves to get in over Pettite but I wouldnt be surprised if Andy makes it and Musssina doesnt because of playoff win. Mussina has more wins, SO's and lower era with the same amount of losses. The only reason I posted the Elis stats were because you said "Its crazy that in Eli's career he has only lead the league in 1 statistic 3 times."
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2014 15:54:47 GMT -5
No, I do not believe he would. His ERA and WHIP way too high. Mussina deserves to get in over Pettite but I wouldnt be surprised if Andy makes it and Musssina doesnt because of playoff win. Mussina has more wins, SO's and lower era with the same amount of losses. The only reason I posted the Elis stats were because you said "Its crazy that in Eli's career he has only lead the league in 1 statistic 3 times." I agree with this. Now if Messina got 300 Lennon2217 sternunman do u think he gets in ?? I don't think he deserved hall but if he got 300 I say both he aNd pettite get in which I say sux
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Post by Lennon2217 on Feb 9, 2014 16:01:22 GMT -5
No, I do not believe he would. His ERA and WHIP way too high. Mussina deserves to get in over Pettite but I wouldnt be surprised if Andy makes it and Musssina doesnt because of playoff win. Mussina has more wins, SO's and lower era with the same amount of losses. The only reason I posted the Elis stats were because you said "Its crazy that in Eli's career he has only lead the league in 1 statistic 3 times." I was giving pretty standard cut and dry quarterback statistics without going into situation stuff. Things like that get distorted like I mapped out in my previous post. Neither Pettitte nor Mussina will ever enter Cooperstown. The ballot is insanely crowded and won't get any better in the years to come with people like Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, John Smoltz coming along. All 3 first ballot. Then you still have Curt Schilling who to me is a hall of famer before Pettitte and Mussina. And that is just the pitchers! So many great hitters still hanging around.
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Post by Sternumman on Feb 9, 2014 16:53:47 GMT -5
Schilling has 54 less wins than Mussina. Schilling is 70 wins over .500 for his career while Mussina is 117 wins above. Career win pct schilling is 118th all time at .597% for pitchers with over a 1000 innings pitched Mussina is 37th all time at .638%. Pedro is 5th, Babe Ruth is 8th, Clemens 17th, Pettite 57th Maddux 89th. I think Mussina is a hall of famer. He just played for Baltimore too many years. As for schmoltz I dont think he's a first ballot guy. Was the number three starter on his team and only had his career extended because he became a closer. Though very impressive not as good as Mussina.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Feb 9, 2014 17:14:33 GMT -5
Schilling has 54 less wins than Mussina. Schilling is 70 wins over .500 for his career while Mussina is 117 wins above. Career win pct schilling is 118th all time at .597% for pitchers with over a 1000 innings pitched Mussina is 37th all time at .638%. Pedro is 5th, Babe Ruth is 8th, Clemens 17th, Pettite 57th Maddux 89th. I think Mussina is a hall of famer. He just played for Baltimore too many years. As for schmoltz I dont think he's a first ballot guy. Was the number three starter on his team and only had his career extended because he became a closer. Though very impressive not as good as Mussina. I'll make a wager Schilling gets into the Hall before Mussina. No doubt in my mind. He pitched a billion big games, practically won them all. You put a gun to my head to win one game, he's my guy. Smoltz is also a first ballot. This time next year and this debate will be over. Smoltz went back to the rotation after 3 years as an elite closer.....did pretty well. Led the league in wins in 2006 and games started. Pitched over 200 innings in 3 seasons. Overall after Tommy John as a starter: 50-34, 3.51 ERA, 1.20 WHIP, 8.0 K/9, 3.79 K/BB. Impressive stuff. Smoltz was also filthy in the postseason.
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