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Post by blackadder00 on Aug 17, 2011 17:28:21 GMT -5
I first got into Oasis in 2003. I saw the video for The Hindu Times and I was hooked. Amazing energy and positivity flowed from the video.
Next day, I went out and bought Heathen Chemistry and I thought it was horrible. There was not one other song on the album like THT.
Anyway, I became fascinated with Oasis' decline. I remember as a child the hype around WTSMG and BHN and wondered why they had lost popularity.
While there are a multitude of factors at play, it is indisputable that one of them was the decline of Noel's songwriting. The demise of Noel's songwriting starting with BHN and ending with SOTSOG. In my belief the final four albums are of the same quality overall and they do not sit well with the first three.
When I heard Bag it Up and The Turning, I was seriously impressed and TBWTL and now on mature reflection those three songs sound like the same band of the early years! Does anyone else feel the same way?
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Post by gdforever on Aug 17, 2011 17:47:21 GMT -5
I'm sorry. I don't understand what you are saying.
You didn't like HC and think that the last 4 albums are of the same quality and worse than the first three. But you said that the songwriting decline started on the 3rd album and ended on the 4th which means that you are including both an album from a period that you say was better and one from the latter periods which you say were uniformly horrible. And if the latter 4 albums are horrible then why bother saying the decline ended @ SOTSOG. But then despite the fact that you rate to last 4 albums as the same quality (and HC was horrible) you really like 3 tunes on DOYS...and seem to be saying that it was maybe the beginning of a return to form of some sort?
I really have no idea where to start...
I have NO idea if I agree with you because I have no idea what you even said.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2011 18:20:20 GMT -5
If you are claiming that Noel's songwriting returned to form on DOYS, then I might agree with you. But to call his songwriting skills declined during the other 2000's albums is kind of not true at all. There are still classics in there like GLIO, RIO, WDIAGW, SCYHO, TIOBI, LTBL, etc.
Oasis had declined, but that isn't necessarily because the song writing was worse. I think it had more to do with the overall effort of all those involved.
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Post by The Morning Son on Aug 17, 2011 18:54:14 GMT -5
The only real period where Noel lost 'his touch' was HC which to me is dire! Uninspired, generic rock'n'roll.
SOTSOG had great tunes like Gas Panic, Go Let It Out, Where Did It All Go Wrong and maybe even Who Feels Love. And then over the last two records we heard; Part Of The Queue, The Importance Of Being Idle, Mucky Fingers, Bag It Up, Waiting For The Rapture & The Turning which are really original for Noel. A complete departure from how he usually wrote in the past. We also got Lyla & The Shock Of The Lightning to keep the everyone happy.
He definitely lost consistency and could only write 4 or 5 really good tunes as opposed to 12 but I think he gets unfair criticism for his songwriting.
The MAIN reason I believe Oasis capitulated was because the band struggled to re-invent themselves. SOTSOG & HC were not the right route to go and so become almost wasted albums and they finally got it right with the last two but by then they were all older and wanted different things so it was only a matter of time before they split.
Had they nailed the 4th album and brought it out in 2000/2001 then it could have been all so different but that's life.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2011 3:28:18 GMT -5
In the 2000s Noel became obsessed with 'sounds' instead of songs. Good stuff was routinely cast aside in favour of inferior material to try to match what he wanted from each record. That was a pretty huge influence. And, as he's said, fitting songs on from each member became an issue. That's why DOYS became half a great album instead of a great album.
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Post by ricardogce on Jul 5, 2013 6:38:50 GMT -5
I don't get all the talk of Noel's "decline" as a songwriter. What he did do was stop writing the type of songs that had come to characterize the band's sound, and indeed, Britpop. Jonathan Ross (big Oasis fan) teased Noel around the time of HC's release, saying something like "Thank you for three amazing albums, and a couple of dodgy ones". I don't get it. Listening to those songs in the fullness of time, their only crime seems to be not being the "Oasis sound" of the 90s, but rather stepping stones in the evolution of Noel's songs from the cheerful laddish tunes of the 94-97 albums into the moodier, more introspective songs he writes now. Which is not to say his every song is perfect, but even Noel's dodgiest song would be considered top-drawer in just about anyone else's album. I mean, the guy put his b-sides into a CD, and it was better than anyone else's a-sides that year. Noel, like Lennon & McCartney, is almost genetically unable to write crap songs.
EDIT: And I just realized how old this topic is. Oops.
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Post by oasis1409 on Jul 8, 2013 5:40:39 GMT -5
if we are talking here about decline, then I think it would be interesting to see how many songs did Noel write that Liam was singing since 2002 (B-sides included)
Hindu Times (performed live) SCYHO (perfprmed live) Lyla (performed live) All in the mind (never performed) Let there be love (never performed) Bag it up (never performed) The Turning (never performed) Shock of the lightning (performed live)
So this is basically all. Zero B-sides (last B-sides after Masterplan was "Let's all make believe" from 2000) and only 4 (!!!!) songs in last 7 years of the band that were performed live, sang by Liam, songs that the main songriter wrote for the main singer.
What do you think?
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Post by Lennon2217 on Jul 8, 2013 7:23:18 GMT -5
Noel wrote plenty of 2nd era Oasis gems:
- Go Let It Out - Gas Panic - Stop Crying Your Heart Out - Little By Little - Lyla - The Importance of Being Idle - The Shock of The Lightening - Falling Down
Not bad for an 8 year period.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2013 10:04:32 GMT -5
Noel wrote plenty of 2nd era Oasis gems: - Go Let It Out - Gas Panic - Stop Crying Your Heart Out - Little By Little - Lyla - The Importance of Being Idle - The Shock of The Lightening - Falling Down Not bad for an 8 year period. That's where he is held to higher or a more critical standard , imagine another songwriter of his era cranking that out and a few more IMO. And have there skills be called diminished . Jmo
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Post by Lennon2217 on Jul 8, 2013 10:08:06 GMT -5
Noel wrote plenty of 2nd era Oasis gems: - Go Let It Out - Gas Panic - Stop Crying Your Heart Out - Little By Little - Lyla - The Importance of Being Idle - The Shock of The Lightening - Falling Down Not bad for an 8 year period. That's where he is held to higher or a more critical standard , imagine another songwriter of his era cranking that out and a few more IMO. And have there skills be called diminished . Jmo I guess somebody should have pulled Noel aside 5-6 years ago and told him he was still great. I remember George Martin telling a story where John Lennon lost his confidence as a songwriter in early 1969. George told him relax, you wrote plenty of great material recently (named I Am The Walrus, Lucy In The Sky, etc). Then Lennon ripped off another successful songwriting binge between 1969 and 1972.
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Post by gdforever on Jul 8, 2013 17:07:16 GMT -5
Noel wrote plenty of 2nd era Oasis gems: - Go Let It Out - Gas Panic - Stop Crying Your Heart Out - Little By Little - Lyla - The Importance of Being Idle - The Shock of The Lightening - Falling Down Not bad for an 8 year period. Personally, I'd throw in Waiting For The Rapture, Roll It Over & Where Did It All Go Wrong? onto that list. I like how Noel took a different musical approach after BHN. The way he wrote songs became more mature, as he did himself with getting off drugs and becoming a more mature adult like he is now, and the music sort of reflects that (art imitates life, to an extent). Although it may be "commercially successful", would it really seem write for a 40+ year old to be still writing Step Out's and Cigarettes & Alcohol's? The Turning as well IMO
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Jul 9, 2013 17:10:40 GMT -5
DBTT was the end of the decline. After the disappointing SOTSOG we got the utter shite HC, followed by a return to form with DBTT.
Noel re-found his songwriting prowess in 2005 and hasn't lost it since. Go on my son!
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Post by vespa on Jul 9, 2013 17:46:11 GMT -5
I thought heathen chemistry was a great reinvention as a band,it was slightly poorly produced but some great tunes on it and was great time for the band.brilliant summer that was...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2013 17:58:20 GMT -5
I thought heathen chemistry was a great reinvention as a band,it was slightly poorly produced but some great tunes on it and was great time for the band.brilliant summer that was... That was a great summer vespa they played the beacon in NYC a couple of times real intimate setting great sound and atmosphere for those shows , and the contrast to when I caught them the UK that tour was unreal , from a small setting to a larger setting just months apart , really summed up the popularity disparity between the 2 countries , after that it was MSG for DBTT and doys , but HC they were still trying to re emerge here , but then I'm in UK and its like they almost never had a dry spell you know ?
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Post by vespa on Jul 10, 2013 13:37:08 GMT -5
Touring wise in uk they never had a dry spell,they were the biggest band in the country from start to finish.heathen chemistry was a great time i thought,happy days really,that an DBTT were the best times of the last decade,brilliant times and the band were re-energised.The only low sales wise is prob DOYS and even thats done half a million copies!!
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Post by gdforever on Jul 10, 2013 15:57:03 GMT -5
Touring wise in uk they never had a dry spell,they were the biggest band in the country from start to finish.heathen chemistry was a great time i thought,happy days really,that an DBTT were the best times of the last decade,brilliant times and the band were re-energised.The only low sales wise is prob DOYS and even thats done half a million copies!! They never had a studio album go less than double platinum which is amazing really. Even their "failures" were only relative failures and their extended prominence was impressive. They thrived long after every other Britpop band had faded away I think it's part of the reason that the board struggles with BDI's level of success when it is not much below that of the majority of the UK indie circuit as many have said. Oasis have never even have a whiff of a suggestion about whether they were financially viable or really any truly concerning fall in popularity.
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Post by WirralRiddler on Jul 10, 2013 16:11:27 GMT -5
DBTT was the end of the decline. After the disappointing SOTSOG we got the utter shite HC, followed by a return to form with DBTT. Noel re-found his songwriting prowess in 2005 and hasn't lost it since. Go on my son! Although I agree I wouldn't go as far to call HC utter shite though, still a good album with some great songs on it, its not that far off DBTT really.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Jul 10, 2013 16:53:48 GMT -5
DBTT was the end of the decline. After the disappointing SOTSOG we got the utter shite HC, followed by a return to form with DBTT. Noel re-found his songwriting prowess in 2005 and hasn't lost it since. Go on my son! Although I agree I wouldn't go as far to call HC utter shite though, still a good album with some great songs on it, its not that far off DBTT really. HC has some fantastic songs. As an album, though, it's proper shite. This is why it's hard ranking BE, because HC has stronger songs but BE is a much better album.
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Post by ricardogce on Jul 11, 2013 7:52:44 GMT -5
I must stand up for SOTSOG. I know even Noel himself has disowned it and said he shouldn't have released it, but to my mind, its only flaw is not having included Let's All Make Believe. That's actually what I think is Noel's biggest flaw: Not his songwriting, but his penchant for leaving some of his best songs as B-sides when they deserved full billing.
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Post by allingoodtime on Mar 21, 2014 15:23:55 GMT -5
sorry for the bump but the fact that when off form Noel could still create songs like Gas Panic, Go let it out, Stop crying your heart out, Songbird (Liam), Little by little, Lyla, TIOBI, LTBL, The shock of the lightning etc shows just how good the band were.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2014 15:28:15 GMT -5
sorry for the bump but the fact that when off form Noel could still create songs like Gas Panic, Go let it out, Stop crying your heart out, Songbird (Liam), Little by little, Lyla, TIOBI, LTBL, The shock of the lightning etc shows just how good the band were. Great bump up man ...... don't know how many times I've said so many bands would kill to have a bad patch and still crank out hits like the ones you just mentioned ....and others as well
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Post by Manualex on Mar 21, 2014 17:27:04 GMT -5
The tread title says that DOYS was the end of the decline but was it because the band finally imploded?(just wanted to play the devils advocate)
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Post by Lennon2217 on Mar 22, 2014 12:23:58 GMT -5
End of the decline? More like the end of the end.
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Post by Manualex on Mar 22, 2014 23:51:31 GMT -5
The end has no end. (one of the best strokes tunes btw)
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Post by allingoodtime on Apr 1, 2014 12:09:49 GMT -5
Even if they had remained together I think DBTT was the end of the decline, DOYS would probably be on par with it.
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