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Post by Stemot on Aug 15, 2011 11:06:44 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2011 11:08:32 GMT -5
you never know, he might get home after a world tour and have a cheeky game of Grand Theft Auto....
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Post by RocketMan on Aug 15, 2011 11:20:32 GMT -5
well i think he's got a point. video games aren't that evil. but brutal and violent games are to often in childs hands. and so they lose a bit of the fine feeling for something like war or else. but it's one of many reasons i guess
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Post by Stemot on Aug 15, 2011 14:08:19 GMT -5
well i think he's got a point. video games aren't that evil. but brutal and violent games are to often in childs hands. and so they lose a bit of the fine feeling for something like war or else. but it's one of many reasons i guess Ridiculous. Not only has the UK government report come back and said that there is no evidence of a link between violent games and violent behaviour but the fact that wars have been going on hundreds of years before violent media was even conceived shows games and films cannot be held accountable. Noel sounds so sure of this yet he knows absolutely nothing about the video game culture. Fuck me, by Noels reckoning I should be a premiership superstar by now from my time on Fifa, A Rally expert because of Dirt 3 and a better guitarist than him because of Guitar Hero if games truly inspire you to repeat what you play. Noel can write some great songs but he'd be best keeping shtum about things he has no idea about.
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Post by manualex on Aug 15, 2011 14:11:28 GMT -5
well i think he's got a point. video games aren't that evil. but brutal and violent games are to often in childs hands. and so they lose a bit of the fine feeling for something like war or else. but it's one of many reasons i guess Ridiculous. Not only has the UK government report come back and said that there is no evidence of a link between violent games and violent behaviour but the fact that wars have been going on hundreds of years before violent media was even conceived shows games and films cannot be held accountable. Noel sounds so sure of this yet he knows absolutely nothing about the video game culture. Fuck me, by Noels reckoning I should be a premiership superstar by now from my time on Fifa, A Rally expert because of Dirt 3 and a better guitarist than him because of Guitar Hero if games truly inspire you to repeat what you play. Noel can write some great songs but he'd be best keeping shtum about things he has no idea about. Good post but you need to use more commas and dots. I agree about everything wrote above, they might have given a small % of people to start the riots, but without a study we wont know certainly.
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Post by lookingtothesky on Aug 15, 2011 14:20:27 GMT -5
There was a long discussion of this in the "Facts and Fiction" thread. Noel is wrong and people who agree with him haven't read the case studies and data that have been collected on this subject for over 20 years. Before I post the same argument twice, though, I'll stop there.
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Post by deasy on Aug 15, 2011 14:26:42 GMT -5
A hardcore gamer that is cranky at someone accusing his beloved games of something started this thread
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Post by ceskojr on Aug 15, 2011 14:32:02 GMT -5
What about this for example? www.aim.org/media-monitor/video-games-can-kill/"60 Minutes showed how the video game “Doom” is used in the military itself to teach soldiers how to kill. In the game, the gunman moves slowly through a building, in the same way that a Special Forces soldier might enter hostile territory. Enemies are shot and killed, as simulated blood spatters out of their wounds and they fall to the ground in pools of blood. In the Kentucky case, the young killer, 14-year-old Michael Carneal, had never undergone any firearms training. He learned how to shoot and kill from the video game. When he walked into the Bible study meeting at his high school with a gun, he proceeded to shoot his victims with deadly accuracy."
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Post by lookingtothesky on Aug 15, 2011 14:53:48 GMT -5
14-year-old Michael Carneal was a crazy asshole. The video game didn't make him kill people. He most likely had severe mental health problems, trouble in school, bad parenting. It's not like he took the gun out of the video game. He must have acquired that somewhere, illegally.
Aye, and I never had firearms training, but i still know how to reload and cock a gun. And with the gun he used is garnered for accuracy. It's not a difficult shot.
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Post by ceskojr on Aug 15, 2011 15:30:59 GMT -5
I'm not saying that only the video game did make him kill people but had an impact for sure, smaller or bigger, and for the record I'm not saying that these is the case for what's happening in UK nowdays.
Like you said, He most likely had severe mental health problems, trouble in school, bad parenting, of course that It's true.
But you cannot disagree that with all these problems plus violence in media (in these case video games) aren't likely that kids do something wrong. 99.9999999999 % kids aren't affected with video games, but is enough that 0.0000000001 % are and with other problems is going to end up with disaster, smaller or bigger, in the family with broken window or in some case with dead body.
This case studies often are horse **** (not just for these case), and easy to manipulate.
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Post by lookingtothesky on Aug 15, 2011 16:30:21 GMT -5
Hmm, we just have a fundamental disagreement, then. That .0001% would have murdered with or without the video game. What I think is so unfortunate about these occurrences is that people focus on the violence of video games and NEVER use these tragedies to fix what is fundamentally problems with communities and bigger societal situations.
I know the truth about damn statistics, and I know that there can be lies in these case studies. But the findings have been so consistent for years and years that I've come to believe them.
In regards to the media, though, I'll give you. I think with troubled kids - the bad parents, schooling, etc. - I think the media definitely influences them. If these kids resort to violence, I think the onus relies on parents, still. We can't fix the media and hold them accountable for social problems.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Aug 15, 2011 18:57:07 GMT -5
We've already covered this in the other thread, and I don't really want to repeat how stupid this 'excuse' is.
Basically, by this nonsense, you're claiming nonsensical and meaningless violence didn't occur 30+ years ago, before the advent of violent video games. How wrong can you get?
Here's an analogy: Flight Simulator helped some of the 9/11 hijackers train. Are you seriously willing to suggest the flight simulator caused 9/11? I don't think so.
It's bad parenting and education. Simple as. If you blame the media, video games, or movies you're being lazy. Parents who use that excuse just don't want to take accountability or responsibility for how poor they have been.
Pressing buttons on a god damn controller doesn't teach or incite anyone to kill humans in real life. I think it was JitKenson who told me this idea was stupid (if not him, I apologize): If GTA yields the next killer, then Fifa2010 should give way to the next soccer star. It's not a stupid analogy, it's spot on. Pushing the 'shoot' button on GTA doesn't train or incite the next killer just as pressing the 'shoot' button for Fifa doesn't give us the next soccer star. What utter nonsense.
If a video game provides even more motivation for a murderer, well, then there's a more serious problem afoot. The flight simulator is a great analogy - that game didn't make the men terrorists. So with that in mind GTA didn't make these people murderers or violent people. If someone is using video games to train, then there's a more fundamental problem. [And don't suggest that video games then played a small part at the very least if only for the training aspect. Because that, too, would be bullshit as diagrams could accomplish just as much, so with that mindset, simple drawings would be blamed by you lot].
Come off it.
Liberals love finding a way to justify their own extremist left wing. If these were right wing extremists, they would be classified - and rightfully so - as not having a justifiable reason. But because they are left wing, people try to find an excusable reason: high taxes, class warfare, media and video games....
What nonsense.
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Post by matt on Aug 15, 2011 19:58:02 GMT -5
^ Yes, but it takes skill and talent to be a top footballer, a professional racing driver and a guitarist. It doesn't take skill to kill someone though. In a society where brutal violence sells, it's coming left, right and centre. I agree it's not a cause and only the truly deranged go out and do these things. I honestly think there are piss poor comprehensives in England and I agree NL4E that education and parenting is a big part of it.
Scotland has a much better record for schools and it's interesting to note that we didn't have the problems down in England. Conservatives will say that family and such is a major cause which is undoubtedly true, but the left wing are totally correct also when they state that those in the higher society have major responsibilities that they are failing to do.
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Post by jacksonlennon on Aug 15, 2011 23:15:12 GMT -5
I think what Noel is saying is that video games desensitize kids to doing unlawful things.
It's not so black and white and of course there is more to the story. But I agree with him, not that it caused the london riots BUT that video games affect impressionable kids minds and show how easy it is - who is gonna stop them?
Always thought that.
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Post by chadwick5000 on Aug 16, 2011 0:56:52 GMT -5
I was skimming through this thread and found myself agreeing with Stemot. Not enough to log in and post, but I dug what he was saying. Basically how I've always felt. NL4E convinced me to log in and post though because that's one of the best defenses I've ever read on this subject (nothing extensive but more than most). I like the flight simulator analogy. I'm going to have to use that next time I get into an argument with dumber people.
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Post by theultimatewannabe on Aug 16, 2011 4:18:37 GMT -5
Skeptics of violent video games are only pointing out that they can be part of the problem of social violence, rather than them being the sole reason for it. So the real problem with their argument is how negligible the effects of video games they're emphasizing are, and not how games aren't the only reason for social violence.
I disagree that violent games have substantial effect on social aggressiveness, though I believe that media itself is harmful to younger children and violence is a big part of it. But unless social discipline was taught in some seriously wrong way, or the criminal inherited psychological disabilities, human mind can easily be oppressed to insignificance under social pressure.
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Post by NYR on Aug 16, 2011 7:12:52 GMT -5
some evidence shows that violent video games actually PREVENT more violent crimes.
i suggest everyone check out penn & teller's bullshit episode about violent video games. i think it's actually on youtube.
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Post by Nyron Nosworthy on Aug 16, 2011 16:49:15 GMT -5
Noel is entitled to his opinion, and I'm no great gaming fan, but it's complete bollocks to be honest.
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Post by kimallenbewick on Aug 16, 2011 19:14:08 GMT -5
Stupid.
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Post by ringoiceman on Aug 16, 2011 20:20:43 GMT -5
bollocks noel , ok so if every rioter had been playing manhunt2 (banned in the uk) then there might be a point, but most of them probably play football games and call of duty. noel is starting to sound like an old fart
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cushy
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Post by cushy on Aug 16, 2011 21:04:12 GMT -5
I didn't read the last 5 or so posts, so forgive me if this is an echo, but I believe when people say that violence is triggered by the child's "violent game" it is just a cop out. And the sad truth that people won't admit is that the .0001% of children who act on these things are most likely "evil" or "disturbed" or whatever you want to call it, because something in their past, whether it was being neglected or abused caused them to develop an "evil" mind.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2011 1:08:48 GMT -5
bollocks noel , ok so if every rioter had been playing manhunt2 (banned in the uk) then there might be a point, but most of them probably play football games and call of duty. noel is starting to sound like an old fart Sound like? He is an old fart and should probably stick to talking about what he knows (or, at the very least, do some research).
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2011 10:22:48 GMT -5
The biggest issue with this whole debate is that every single one of us has grown up in the "video game" generation, therefore we all lack objectivity on the issue. Regardless of what some "studies" say, the human psyche is effected by each and every sensory thing that it comes in contact with throughout life. So gaming does have some effects, the debate is really over how much of an effect. It really doesn't matter ultimately.
The society/culture around violent individuals is the greatest determining factor in violent crime. Kind of a "monkey see-monkey do" thing. We are all more animalistic than we'd like to believe.
Lastly: Any of you who believe that these studies numbers prove or disprove your point are vastly out of touch with modern statistics. They can be made to say whatever you want them to say.
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Post by songbird11 on Aug 19, 2011 13:31:03 GMT -5
Video games are possibly part of it & how dickheads can be these days,along with films etc.
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Post by thuperthonic on Aug 19, 2011 13:52:14 GMT -5
Video games should sue Noel for this outrageous comment.
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